NFL Week 5

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Travis

Probably a good thing for Quinn if he gets moved. Depending on the price tag I can't say I'd be terribly disappointed if Seattle picks him up. That said, I'm guessing at this point the price would still be more than I'd like to see them invest.

Is there enough room for two ex-Browns quarterbacks on the Seahawks roster?

[Travis]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Is there enough room for two ex-Browns quarterbacks on the Seahawks roster?

Heh, the "other" one is gone, unless I'm missing a different reference here.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Travis

I do tend to be way off in what I think will happen as far as trade compensation

To guage his trade value, we would be best off looking for comparable players who have been traded - i.e. first round QBs traded during their rookie contracts. The one that jumps to mind is obviously Jay Cutler, but I think we can discount that deal to accurately gauge the trade value of Brady Quinn.

Look at the list of first round QB busts/disappointments over the past 20 years, and I think you'll find most of them have been..... released. Not even worth a conditional draft pick.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

2-17, 23 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT against the Bills in a 6-3 win. Wow. Just wow.

9 dropped passes and heavy winds. Obviously, though, that's just the worst QB performance most of us will ever see. Funny part is his INT% is the only place where he gained any qb rating. The other 3 parts(comp%, ypa, td%) were all zeroes.

[Samdari]

Here they are, since 1990:
Andre Ware - released
Jeff George - traded 4 years into a 6 year deal for 1st/3rd.
Dan McGwire - released/played out deal
Marajuanovich - released
Klingler - rookie deal expired
Maddox - traded after two seasons for 4th round pick
Bledsoe - resigned by team during rookie deal
Mirer - traded after four seasons (along with a 4th) for a 1st rounder. Wow.
Shuler - traded for 5th and future 3rd
Dilfer - released after 6 seasons
McNair - resigned
Collins - waived midseason
Druckenmiller - traded for conditional 6th
Manning - cannot find any reference to him on the internet?
Leaf - released
Couch - released
McNabb - resigned
Smith - released
McNown - traded with 7th, for 6th and future, conditional 7th
Culpepper - resigned
Pennington - resigned
Vick - resigned
Carr - released
Harrington - traded for 6th
Ramsey - traded for 6th
Palmer - resigned
Boller - UFA
Leftwich - released
Grossman - UFA
Eli - resigned, despite being the worst QB ever
Rivers - resigned
Rothlesberger - resigned
Alex Smith - took pay cut to avoid being released
Rodgers - resigned
Campbell - playing final year of rookie deal
VY - "playing" rookie deal
Leinert - see VY
Cutler - traded for the 18 firsts and the Sears Tower
JaMarcus - unlikely to be traded
Quinn - that's what we're trying to find out

I think we can dismiss the cases of George and Cutler, who were traded due to disagreements with management, as not comparable.

I think we can assume there will be no repeat of the Rick Mirer deal, unless Dave Wannstadt returns to the NFL ranks. In any case, the better comparison of someone who had modest success, then steadily declined, would have Wanny trading a first for Derek Anderson, not Brady Quinn (who has had no success).

I think the most recent of these would be comparable - Harrington, Ramsey, McNown (still cannot figure out if they got something for him, or paid to get rid of him) and Druckenmiller.

Assuming Brady's star has fallen no further than those gentlemen's had, and the value of failed first round QBs has not tanked, I put his value somewhere between a 6th and out and out released.

I think Quinn is more likely to be released (assuming the new regime does not want to bring him back) but there does seem the possibility of a trade for a 6th or 7th round pick.

[Lathum]

I see what you guys are trying to do here...

[Suburban Rhythm]

This should probably go in the week 6 thread, but too early to begin that.

Aaron Smith is out for, per Tomlin "awhile", with a "potentially significant" right shoulder injury.

Anyone who remembers the Steelers down the stretch, and in the playoffs vs Jacksonville, in 2006, knows this hurts.

[DataKing]

Could be worse. It could be Casey Hampton.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Hampton at least has a serviceable backup in Chris Hoke.

Behind Smith is Travis Kirschke, Nick Eason, and 1st rounder Ziggy Hood who is not ready at this point.

Plus, while Hampton makes the Steelers tough to run against, he's off the field on 3rd down, when Smith would move inside as a pass rusher.

[stevew]

Yeah. That's pretty much a fatal nail in the coffin for this season.

[Travis]

Oh come on, it could be worse. You could be IR'ing your 3rd string LT (signed earlier this season from the practice squad) and be playing your 4th string LT (signed to the practice squad when the 3rd stringer was signed off of it, then added to the NFL roster a week later).

Or as it's otherwise known, being one injury away from starting a TE at LT and two injuries away from switching a DT over to the offensive line.

Sorry, just venting a bit at the Seahawks offensive line woes as they stand right now.

[Sun Tzu]

What's the deal with Seattle and injuries anyways? How long will Hasselbeck be in there until he gets hurt again do you think?

[DataKing]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Hampton at least has a serviceable backup in Chris Hoke.

Behind Smith is Travis Kirschke, Nick Eason, and 1st rounder Ziggy Hood who is not ready at this point.

Plus, while Hampton makes the Steelers tough to run against, he's off the field on 3rd down, when Smith would move inside as a pass rusher.

I don't know enough about the Steelers to speak to their depth, but I just look at big Jamal for the Chargers and see how much the complexion of their 3-4 changes without him in there.

[Aylmar]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

This should probably go in the week 6 thread, but too early to begin that.

Aaron Smith is out for, per Tomlin "awhile", with a "potentially significant" right shoulder injury.

Anyone who remembers the Steelers down the stretch, and in the playoffs vs Jacksonville, in 2006, knows this hurts.

Right rotator cuff surgery on Friday...misses around three months. Looks like Tomlin has to decide whether to hold a spot for him ala Woodson (for any potential playoff run), or put him on IR.

I think they'll be alright. They'll probably have Kiesel put his hand on the ground in passing downs now instead of roaming around in the "mixer" defense. From what Tomlin and John Mitchell are reportedly saying, they'll rotate quite a bit to try and replace him, and get Ziggy some heavy rotation. He played pretty well late last Sunday, so we'll see...

Or you'll see Hoke on passing downs as the single down lineman. He's pretty athletic for a big man, and held down that spot in the pass defense in 2007 when Smith was out. Beside, third down isn't the issue, really. It's the impact to the Okie defense that concerns me.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by DataKing

Could be worse. It could be Casey Hampton.

We are already starting 3rd string players across the OL.

And I'd have to say we have wildly different expectations for this season.

You were hoping for 10-6 and I was hoping for ring number 7. Not having Aaron in there seriously limits any chances of a deep playoff run.

[stevew]

My bad. I think I meant to quote Travis.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by stevew

We are already starting 3rd string players across the OL.

And I'd have to say we have wildly different expectations for this season.

You were hoping for 10-6 and I was hoping for ring number 7. Not having Aaron in there seriously limits any chances of a deep playoff run.

Well, I may have been hoping for 10-12 wins and a run through the playoffs I know they were 4-12 last year but I really didn't believe that was a reflection on the talent level so much as the crazy amount of injuries suffered that really removed entire position groups from the team. If anything I viewed the higher draft pick as kind of a bonus to go along with all of the guys who should return healthy this season. Plus I really thought this would be Walter Jones' last hurrah and that they'd be making a strong push to get him a ring before he hangs them up. Looks like they might still want to do it for him, unfortunately it's looking more and more like he won't get on to the field again to help them.

I really did not expect to see injuries like that again this year, especially this early.

I mean right now they're on their 5th string LT, 3rd string LG, 1st C, 2nd RG and 3rd string RT. Throw in that they were without three of their top four corners until Wilson came back along with missing two of their three starting linebackers for a bit and it was just ridiculous. At the end of the game this past Sunday they would have had to put in a TE (John Owens) at LT if the knee sprain the 4th stringer suffered had gotten any worse because they had no more active offensive linemen who weren't injured (the other fun part of all these injuries is that only one has been bad enough to be IR'd and that didn't happen until yesterday). Had another player gone down then it would have been Red Bryant switching from DT to offensive line.

And yet, had they not blown the game against Chicago they'd be 3-2 with one game left before their bye (almost all of the current injuries aside from Walter Jones and Brandon Frye are supposed to be healthy following the bye).

Instead, they're 2-3 and while not toast if they don't beat Arizona this week, a win could move them into a tie for the division lead or keep them just a game back.

On the plus side the new zone blocking scheme seems to be getting implemented well and Hasselbeck isn't taking all that many nasty shots. I think he learned his lesson when he got thumped and broke the rib as he was sliding properly this past weekend. Granted, Jacksonville doesn't have the best rush this season but I'm hopeful that with all the weapons Seattle has on offense that Hass can get into a rhythm and keep defense's off balance enough that they're not blitzing him into the ground.

As far as why the injuries? Oye, the million dollar question. Everything seems to be knee or ankle related. Have read some theories that it may have something to do with the turf they're using but there's no evidence to back that up. Past that I don't know if it's flat out bad luck or some oddity like that.

[MikeVic]

Losing Smith sucks a lot.

edit to add that I think he's one of the better DE in the league at what he does. He doesn't get crazy sack numbers, but he's awesome in the 3-4.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

2-17, 23 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT against the Bills in a 6-3 win. Wow. Just wow.

But to be fair his receiver did drop close to ten of those passes...No Qb with the way those receivers played would have done well.....

[Vince, Pt. II]

Someone asked, but I'm also curious. Is there something to the huge injury list in Seattle? This is the second year they have been ridiculously hammered with injuries.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Someone asked, but I'm also curious. Is there something to the huge injury list in Seattle? This is the second year they have been ridiculously hammered with injuries.

I addressed that a bit at the bottom of my last post, but given the injury types and how they've happened, a lot of it just appears to be fluke type injuries. Plus this year, so far at least, the injuries have been a lot shorter term (almost all the injured players should be back following their bye next week) whereas last year they had the IR list fully stocked.

That said, the crazy number of knee and ankle injuries would seem to indicate it being a surface or training related sort of issue, but so far people with much more access to the team than myself haven't been able to correlate a common factor, so they still seem to be at a bit of a loss.

Whatever it is, I hope it takes a break for the rest of the season, it's been ridiculous.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I totally missed that last paragraph in your previous post. My bad

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Losing Smith sucks a lot.

edit to add that I think he's one of the better DE in the league at what he does. He doesn't get crazy sack numbers, but he's awesome in the 3-4.

This really hurts. Our defense wasn't exactly locking down opposing offenses up to this point anyways, now how bad will it get in the fourth quarter? Have to get a running game going, even with that sieve of an offensive line (which admittedly played better in the last game - but, it WAS the Lions after all).

At least Troy P is coming back this Sunday.