2006-07 Soccer Thread

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

Although with him being out for 10 weeks, and then a couple of games to get sharp, it will be the next transfer window before Malbranque is back up to speed...

Yeah, won't be seeing him at full speed til xmas. Still a good signing for Spurs though.

Looks like Chimbonda is finally on his way to Spurs too.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Northwood_DK

Thomas Gravesen is finished in Real Madrid and will be the best-paid player in Scottish football for Celtic.

"Thomas wants to be the pivotal point of my team, ha can not be, he is not good enough" - Fabio Capello (Real Madrid manager), Gazzetta dello Sport.

Not a lot to do but move on when your manager says that

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by law90026

So in absolutely shocking news (to me anyway), it appears Tevez and Mascherano are joining West Ham on a year long loan (BBC news ... based on a comment from Tevez's website).

Wow ...

Indeed

West Ham is going to be scary this season if this deal goes through.


I'm really happy that the Magpies got Rossi on loan. I wish it was for the full season rather than to January, but maybe we can 're-up' the loan if ManU's striker are doing really well by then.

[law90026]

LOL can you say dirty deals?

From the Guardian:

6.15pm No sooner have West Ham signed two of the world's best young players than they're preparing fans for their sale. "These are exciting signings for us," spraffs West Ham media spokesman Phil Hall, lining up the inevitable 'but'. "But, of course, if we were offered major fees for the players at a later date we would have to consider it - as we would with other players."

I wonder who they would sell them to at a later date >.>

[SirFozzie]

Rumor has it they are test runs to see how they'd do in the Premiership before heading over to Chelski.

[Fighter of Foo]

If Chelsea ends up winning the title and they both end up moving there, I think I'm done closely following the EPL. I'll save the 10 bucks a month, thanks.

At least in Spain and Italy, the big clubs counteract each other.

[Katon]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Rumor has it they are test runs to see how they'd do in the Premiership before heading over to Chelski.

I'm not sure of that. Mascherano's great, but we're probably the only team on the planet who wouldn't benefit from having him. Tevez is a horrible fit for a 4-3-3, and if we're changing to a 4-4-2 (which there have been a few signs of) then you'd think we'd sign him now, rather than go into the season with just two out-and-out strikers.

The real problem with that theory, though, is that why on earth wouldn't we just buy them and loan them out for a season to get acclimatized? There's no reason to go through this much subterfuge.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by Katon

The real problem with that theory, though, is that why on earth wouldn't we just buy them and loan them out for a season to get acclimatized? There's no reason to go through this much subterfuge.

I'm pretty sure there's an agency that up to half of Tevez, Masherano, and other players as well. Any team that's hard up for cash can sell parts of their players to this agency, but the agency then gets that piece of whatever transfer fee inevitably takes place. FIFA has more stringent regulations in place now, but these deals can still take place. I wish I could remember the company name, but it's something with initials and I don't have time to go back through any of the soccer news/boards to find it. Roman Abramovich apparently owns this company.

They're independent however, and someone high-up decided it would look ridiculously sketchy if both these guys transferred to Chelsea, so they're transferring them to West Ham instead.

Why West Ham?

Well apparently this company (and I HATE not knowing the name so can someone help?) had interest at one point in purchasing West Ham, so if that does go through in the next year, the new owners can just keep these two star players. If not, the agency still makes a cut of the future transfer fee to Chelsea or wherever, adn West Ham books a profit on the sale, plus whatever additional places/cups they can win with Tevez and Mascherano on board.

That's the rumor.

[vex]

MSI?

[Critch]

Sky says that Villarreal are going to blow the $3.5mil they got from HSV for Sorin to buy Cygan from Arsenal.

That would be one of those addition by subtraction things for Arsenal.

The other rumor is Gallas + 8.5mil pounds for Ashley Cole. Pull off those two, add in Baptista for a disinterested wantaway Reyes and it would be a good night for Arsenal.

[Anguscl]

DaMarcus Beasley goes to Man City on a season long loan. After a pretty average world cup, do you think he will have any impact for them?

[Katon]

I don't think there's ever been any proof that Roman is involved in MSI - just an as-yet unsubstantiated rumour. And as I said before, I don't think this deal makes any sense for Chelsea if we were involved in planning it. Honestly, how odd would it seem if we just paid twenty million or so for Tevez (or Mascherano)? Well, how much odder than the usual Chelsea deal since Kenyon started handling them? And if MSI are trying not to make things look sketchy then they're doing a really horrible job.

I completely agree that Chelsea are probably the backup plan if MSI don't take over West Ham. But there's a difference between their relying on us to pay over the odds for up-and-coming stars and our secretly running the world.

[tanglewood]

Some people on this board will be interested that DaMarcus Beasley has signed a loan deal with Man City. Not sure how long for.

[tanglewood]

dola

Missed it just a few posts above. D'oh!

[FrogMan]

and it appears that the Cole for Gallas move happened right at the deadline...

From: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...al/5297616.stm

Blues beat deadline to sign Cole

Chelsea have ended a long-running saga by signing England defender Ashley Cole from Arsenal in exchange for £5m and defender William Gallas.
The deal was completed just before the transfer deadline with Cole, who was with the England squad in a Manchester hotel, having his medical nearby.

Cole is believed to have signed a five-year deal worth £90,000 per week.

Chelsea had been linked with Cole, 25, all summer, but disagreements over the transfer fee stalled the move.

A joint statement from the clubs said: "Chelsea FC and Arsenal have agreed terms for the transfers of Ashley Cole and William Gallas.

"Chelsea will also pay Arsenal £5m. Both players have agreed personal terms and passed their respective medicals."

Although all the relevant paperwork had been lodged with the Premier League, neither club had made an announcement by the time the midnight deadline passed.

It was not until 0125 BST on Friday that the statement was finally issued.

FM

[cthomer5000]

Looking at the cash going to Arsenal, I would say Chelsea won this game of chicken. Orinigal numbers being tossed around were 2-3 times higher.

[cschex]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Looking at the cash going to Arsenal, I would say Chelsea won this game of chicken. Orinigal numbers being tossed around were 2-3 times higher.

That was without Gallas, though, who is a highly-rated (rightfully so, imo) defender, who would cost at least 12 million by himself, I should think. Put it this way, I was already assuming that Arsenal wouldn't have Cole and Reyes this season but was deathly afraid that they wouldn't buy any new players. Getting Gallas and Baptista will help them immensele.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by cschex

That was without Gallas, though, who is a highly-rated (rightfully so, imo) defender, who would cost at least 12 million by himself, I should think. Put it this way, I was already assuming that Arsenal wouldn't have Cole and Reyes this season but was deathly afraid that they wouldn't buy any new players. Getting Gallas and Baptista will help them immensele.

I was certainly hearing Gallas + 10 million (GBP) for Cole. I think relative to talk about the value of these players a month ago, that Chelsea is the winner at the negotiating table. That's all i'm saying. Seems to be a win/win in theory, but it appears that Chelsea gained considerable negotiating ground between the original rumors and today.

[law90026]

In terms of pure numbers, the highest rumour was 15 million pounds + Gallas. That would have been a 5 to 10 million pound rating for Gallas.

However, I'm not sure Arsenal could have pulled that off, simply because a 25 million pound rating on Cole would give Chelsea room to argue that Gallas's value would be much higher as well.

Did Chelsea gain negotiating ground? Probably. I don't think they needed Gallas as much as Arsenal needed another defender to replace Cole.

I'm not sure how Gallas will fit though, since he reportedly was unhappy at playing leftback. If anything, that's what Arsenal needs him to play now, since Hoyte looks weaker than Djerou.

Overall, I think Arsenal came out of the day looking much improved. They essentially have strengthened the squad by 2 (since Reyes and Cole weren't playing anyway). The Baptista deal worries me though, since it's only a year's loan. I can see Baptista refusing to sign on permanently next summer.

And oh, I wonder whether Cygan left (addition by subtraction ... and for 2 million pounds!!)

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by law90026

In terms of pure numbers, the highest rumour was 15 million pounds + Gallas. That would have been a 5 to 10 million pound rating for Gallas.

However, I'm not sure Arsenal could have pulled that off, simply because a 25 million pound rating on Cole would give Chelsea room to argue that Gallas's value would be much higher as well.

Sorry but that's way off, in my opinion. As law90026 said, getting 25 for Cole is iffy (Zambrotta went for 14 but, yes, I understand the age difference). The only team that would throw that level of funny money around is Chelsea -- ESPECIALLY with Real set at left-back for another year (personally, I think Barça is the team that should have chased Cole). And Mourinho was NOT going to give that much cash to Wenger to play around with. Where does that leave Arsenal? Fucked. Generally speaking. Especially with Cole having his book on the way. I would have been stoked to get arguably one of the best 5-6 centrebacks in the world in exchange for him straight up. A centreback who *could* (assuming he's willing to) move to the outside and not drop very much in quality? A centreback who generally speaking owned (or, "pwn3d", as it were) Henry as few others have managed to (without resorting to just kicking him)? Getting some dinero alongside? Please, I BELIEVE in Santa and David Dein now.

Originally Posted by law90026

Did Chelsea gain negotiating ground? Probably. I don't think they needed Gallas as much as Arsenal needed another defender to replace Cole.

I could be overly optimistic but I didn't think we actually needed another defender to replace Cole. At least not once Senderos recovered and assuming Clichy stops doing his Woodgate impression.

On the other hand, I wouldn't turn away a defender the quality of Gallas, either.

Originally Posted by law90026

I'm not sure how Gallas will fit though, since he reportedly was unhappy at playing leftback. If anything, that's what Arsenal needs him to play now, since Hoyte looks weaker than Djerou.

I would imagine he fits in very nicely in the middle with Toure. That's a ridiculously wonderful centreback pairing.

As for temporarily filling in on the outside, in spite of not liking it, he's done an incredible job for the past two years for Chelsea playing on the left -- where a certain money grubbing asshole was "injured" for much of last season. I would imagine he has enough sense to be willing to fill in on the outside temporarily until Clichy heals. Or at least I hope so.

I'm a big fan of Djourou (I think he'll be awesome once he's had more game experience) but you're talking about a centreback playing centreback versus a right-back filling in at left-back. In spite of his relatively weak showing, Hoyte deserves a *little* bit of slack.

Originally Posted by law90026

Overall, I think Arsenal came out of the day looking much improved. They essentially have strengthened the squad by 2 (since Reyes and Cole weren't playing anyway). The Baptista deal worries me though, since it's only a year's loan. I can see Baptista refusing to sign on permanently next summer.

Not being able to bring Baptista aboard on a permanent basis IS a worry but, wow, the 4 moves made by Wenger/Dein at the deadline makes this an incredible "offseason".

Baptista gives an interesting twist to the Arsenal offense and a yet another different look to partner with Henry (as well as being one who should complement Henry very well). He also makes an interesting alternative for when Henry needs to sit. Also, if Wenger wants to go back to the 4-5-1 he employed in Europe last year, he makes an excellent candidate for that central midfielder/attacker slot where he can run forward to support Henry.

Getting Gallas is, well, getting Gallas. Just incredibly awesome.

Losing someone with Cole's talent hurts, no question about it, but, well, we were going to lose him anyway. Tough. Reyes is simply not the brightest bulb in the knife drawer and never managed to settle in England so he was never going to ever fulfill his potential with us anyway. Sucks. I mean, if I understand this correctly, we're talking Cole + Reyes + Cygan = Gallas + Baptista + Rosicky + 5M . . . that's badass. That's without adding in Fran Merida, who looks tremendously talented, and Denilson (whose fee could actually go up to 4M so that last 5M could be mostly wiped out). That's just an insane offseason!

Originally Posted by law90026

And oh, I wonder whether Cygan left (addition by subtraction ... and for 2 million pounds!!)

The Cybot will be missed. I'm not sure how or why we managed to GET 2M for him.

[Katon]

Originally Posted by daedalus

The Cybot will be missed. I'm not sure how or why we managed to GET 2M for him.

Agreed - I miss him already .

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by daedalus

...not the brightest bulb in the knife drawer...

Fantastic mixed metaphor

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

Fantastic mixed metaphor

Makes you wonder what he'd keep under the bed

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Anguscl

DaMarcus Beasley goes to Man City on a season long loan. After a pretty average world cup, do you think he will have any impact for them?

City has nothing on the left flank, so it's his job to use. Unfortunately, he might do just that.

[law90026]

Originally Posted by daedalus

As for temporarily filling in on the outside, in spite of not liking it, he's done an incredible job for the past two years for Chelsea playing on the left -- where a certain money grubbing asshole was "injured" for much of last season. I would imagine he has enough sense to be willing to fill in on the outside temporarily until Clichy heals. Or at least I hope so.

Yeah this is what scares me but I guess it's something that AW will have to manage.

Originally Posted by daedalus

I'm a big fan of Djourou (I think he'll be awesome once he's had more game experience) but you're talking about a centreback playing centreback versus a right-back filling in at left-back. In spite of his relatively weak showing, Hoyte deserves a *little* bit of slack.

Well, here's where I disagree. While I can appreciate that Hoyte is playing out of position and he's young, we can't ignore the fact that he's the weak link in defence. Opposing teams won't cut Arsenal and Hoyte any slack because of that. We can recognise his potential but we can also recognise that he's a problem right now.

Originally Posted by daedalus

Not being able to bring Baptista aboard on a permanent basis IS a worry but, wow, the 4 moves made by Wenger/Dein at the deadline makes this an incredible "offseason".

Well, take it how you will but Baptista suggests he wants a 4-year contract. True, false? We'll see next summer. I wonder what happens if either Reyes or Baptista aren't happy and want to return though... is their club obligated to take them back and, if so, at what price?

Originally Posted by daedalus

Baptista gives an interesting twist to the Arsenal offense and a yet another different look to partner with Henry (as well as being one who should complement Henry very well). He also makes an interesting alternative for when Henry needs to sit. Also, if Wenger wants to go back to the 4-5-1 he employed in Europe last year, he makes an excellent candidate for that central midfielder/attacker slot where he can run forward to support Henry.

I have to admit I haven't seen much of Baptista. By all accounts he's a strong physical player that has a powerful shot and a goalscoring instinct (50 goals in 2 seasons for Sevilla playing as an AM). If so, he's the exact player I think Arsenal should sign, since his directness will be an interesting contrast to some of the Arsenal fluffiness I've come to love and hate.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by law90026

Well, here's where I disagree. While I can appreciate that Hoyte is playing out of position and he's young, we can't ignore the fact that he's the weak link in defence. Opposing teams won't cut Arsenal and Hoyte any slack because of that. We can recognise his potential but we can also recognise that he's a problem right now.

I'm not sure where we disagree. I don't think I ever remotely implied that Hoyte was acceptable as a left-back and that it is not a problem. City's goal was a direct result of Hoyte (the penalty anyway). My point was that comparing how they (Djourou and Hoyte) are doing is unfair (even if I rate Djourou more so).

Originally Posted by law90026

Well, take it how you will but Baptista suggests he wants a 4-year contract. True, false? We'll see next summer. I wonder what happens if either Reyes or Baptista aren't happy and want to return though... is their club obligated to take them back and, if so, at what price?

Well, I'm assuming if either or both player(s) has a change of heart (ie, the Gypsy King ended up enjoying gathering splinters on his hiney less than he thought he would) then the deal is off and the respective players return to their squad unless the clubs are able to agree on a deal.

On the other hand, that's next year. And, as of right now, we are no longer carrying an unhappy forward nursing a supposed groin injury and, thus, unavailable to us and we have added a high quality player who theoretically should be an excellent fit as a partner for Henry and provides a viable "plan B" for goal scoring when Henry cannot participate. Especially against thuggish teams that feel they can use physical play to keep us out of the game (and rightfully so). Most importantly, adding such a quality player keeps Henry happy. Probably almost as much as not having to glare at Reyes all game long. (I don't think Reyes' passing get enough credit. I think he made some very good passes to release Henry on some of his patented runs.)

[law90026]

Originally Posted by daedalus

I'm not sure where we disagree. I don't think I ever remotely implied that Hoyte was acceptable as a left-back and that it is not a problem. City's goal was a direct result of Hoyte (the penalty anyway). My point was that comparing how they (Djourou and Hoyte) are doing is unfair (even if I rate Djourou more so).

Heh, must have misread what you meant

Most importantly, adding such a quality player keeps Henry happy. Probably almost as much as not having to glare at Reyes all game long. (I don't think Reyes' passing get enough credit. I think he made some very good passes to release Henry on some of his patented runs.)

Yeah, I always got the feeling Henry was irritated at Reyes for some reason, maybe it was just my imagination.

[tanglewood]

From BBC Sport:

Originally Posted by BBC

Gallas 'issued own-goal threat'
Chelsea say they sold William Gallas because he threatened to score an own goal if he was selected for their first game of the season.

The Stamford Bridge club have released a statement explaining their reasons for allowing the French defender to join Arsenal on transfer deadline day.

Gallas, 29, allegedly refused to play again for the Blues.

Chelsea claim he said he would score an own goal if he was forced to play against Manchester City on 20 August.

The statement says Gallas initially refused to play against Liverpool in last season's FA Cup semi-final and how, if selected to play against City he threatened to score an own goal, get sent off or make deliberate mistakes.

Gallas was heavily criticised by Blues boss Jose Mourinho earlier in the summer when he failed to report for pre-season training on Chelsea' pre-season tour of America.

The full club statmement read: "Chelsea believes it is important for our supporters to be made aware of the full facts regarding William Gallas and the lack of respect he showed to the fans, the manager and the club.

"Despite leaving he continues to attack José Mourinho and this cannot be left unchallenged.

"Chelsea made William Gallas a very substantial and attractive new contract offer to stay towards the end of last season. This was rejected.

"The issue was purely one of money, despite his public comments that he wanted a new challenge, to play abroad and so forth. These were just a smokescreen to cover up the fact he was hawking himself to the highest bidder.

"Having failed to secure his demands, his position became increasingly intransigent and unacceptable.

"He initially refused to play against Liverpool in the FA Cup semi-final last season in an effort to force an increased contract offer.

"As is now well documented he refused to join up with the team in Los Angeles during pre-season, despite agreeing the dates for his return as the other World Cup players did, with the club.

"When Jose Mourinho generously offered him a way back into the 'family' after the American tour, this was thrown back in the Chelsea manager's face.

"The manager told him that, even if he did not agree a new contract but returned to the "family" and abided by the rules, he would still select the best players available and would not punish him playing wise.

"However despite meetings to try and resolve the problems Gallas made it clear to Jose Mourinho he would never play for Chelsea again.

"Before the first game of the season against Manchester City, when only four defenders were available and John Terry was doubtful with an injury, he refused to play.

"He went on to threaten that if he was forced to play, or if he was disciplined and financially punished for his breach of the rules, that he could score an own goal or get himself sent off, or make deliberate mistakes.

"Clearly this was a totally unacceptable situation for the manager, the team and the club. So a collectively agreed solution in Chelsea's interests had to be found, hence his departure.

"Chelsea has a wage structure in place that is valued not only on the contribution of the player to the manager and the team, but also on a player?s respect for the club and contribution to the promotion and image of the club off the field. Every player is expected to play their part in this.

"William Gallas rarely recognised these responsibilities. He also failed to recognise the role Jose Mourinho and Chelsea played in helping him become a double Premiership champion for a player whose only league title prior to that had been in the French Second Division."

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Sorry, I have a hard time believing these claims. If a player ever did anything he's accused of threatening to do (own goal, purposely sent off, deliberate mistakes), he would never play for a top flight club again. Of course, I'm sure Gallas can sue for libel if these aren't true, so we'll see what happens.

[daedalus]

Heh. Heh. Chelsea "family". Heh. Heh.

[law90026]

Interestingly, the rumours are that Mourinho was absolutely furious at Peter Kenyon for selling Gallas to Arsenal. Interesting twist to all this. Of course, Chelsea has come out to deny such allegations.

[Ajaxab]

So I was watching the EPL Preview show last night on Fox Soccer and they did a story on Man City. As they interviewed Stuart Pearce, I couldn't help but wonder if he moonlights as the voice behind the Geico gecko. If I closed my eyes I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

[Honolulu_Blue]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOH
We Don't care what the Red Shites say
What the fuck do we care?
Coz we only know that there's gonna be a show
When the Everton boys are there!

EVERTON!
EVERTON!
EVERTON!

[SirFozzie]

wow, didn't see THAT result coming

[Katon]

Anyone who hasn't seen the highlights, go track down a clip of Everton's third. Now.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Katon

Anyone who hasn't seen the highlights, go track down a clip of Everton's third. Now.

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBySZ6Hg9QE

Always happy to see Liverpool lose

[SirFozzie]

Heh. The Italian Serie A and Serie B kicked off today.. Juventus played their first game in Serie B, and only managed a 1-1 draw against Rimini

[Critch]

Wow....Jimmy Bullard's knee.....amazing that they're talking about it only keeping him out for 2 months, one of the nastiest injuries I've seen.

[SirFozzie]

The bad news is, Juventus has knocked 1 point off their deficit. The good news is, they're still 16 points in the hole

[Flasch186]

I guess the refereeing is going to continue to be bad throughout the UEFA Champions league competition too which is surprising considering I wouldve thought that there wouldve been some very stern discussions with the refs about their job(s) and what they are to do. Man. U just got a gift.

[condors]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I guess the refereeing is going to continue to be bad throughout the UEFA Champions league competition too which is surprising considering I wouldve thought that there wouldve been some very stern discussions with the refs about their job(s) and what they are to do. Man. U just got a gift.

i thought man utd were the better team and deserved their win, they could have scored a few more goals

[cthomer5000]

Damn, looks like i missed a Man U-Celtic game worth watching.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by condors

i thought man utd were the better team and deserved their win, they could have scored a few more goals

regardless, the ref handed out a PK like it was a raffle tix.

[Critch]

I thought it was a penalty, Boruc got lost so bumped Giggs over. It might not have been a 100% definite, but it would be given most of the time I think. Certainly not a gift.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Critch

I thought it was a penalty, Boruc got lost so bumped Giggs over. It might not have been a 100% definite, but it would be given most of the time I think. Certainly not a gift.

Well, I think when a keeper minimally touches the guy, he takes two steps than slides to the ground throwing his hands up, it should NOT be a PK. When last year, the keeper tackled the guy on a one on one it was certainly a PK (maybe not the red card)....Boruc did not cause the player to not get the ball NOR cause him to fall. How that deerves a PK is beyond me and I hope that that isnt the caliber of calls were going to see this entire tourney.

[Critch]

Soccer is a game of close calls, if you disagree with a call it doesn't automatically mean it's a bad call and a poor calibre of refereeing.

The Celtic manager says they lost because they lacked flair, Gravesen says they lost because of his pass, The Glasgow Herald (the pro-Celtic local newspaper) calls it "a moment of mindlessness by Boruc" after a " reckless dash from his goal-line."

[daedalus]

A question for anyone who saw the Arsenal game: Arseblogger's description had it being a pretty horrible PK and red card call on the Hamburg keeper while Sky only said that Van Persie "made a meal" of the contact. Opinions?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmn23WyZ2j0

It's kind of tough to tell, but Van Persie sells it well. Perhaps a little too well to be legit.

[Critch]

It's hard to tell from the youtube angle. If he touched his ankle the decision is correct, if he didn't it was a dive. Can't really tell though. Seems like double punishment sometimes to give a penalty and a sending off when it's not a clear professional foul.

I watched the Man U v celtic game yesterday and I thought the commentator mentioned something about a Champions League highlights program on ESPN. Was I hearing things, or did he mention it?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Critch

I watched the Man U v celtic game yesterday and I thought the commentator mentioned something about a Champions League highlights program on ESPN. Was I hearing things, or did he mention it?

Friday at 2:00 PM Eastern on ESPN2.