2013-14 MLB Off Season Thread

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Just the point being that 20 years ago people were aghast at someone getting half what roughly average players get today. People keep looking at the money and getting worked up when it is natural not even considering the additional money coming into the game - which SHOULD go to the players. Everyone gets so worked up about players making more but the owners, many of whom are terrible, are making even more off this than the players.

With ticket prices continuing to rise for professional sports past the point that the average family can attend many games (I still refuse to even contemplate what my wife spent for me to go to the CAR/NED Monday night game, and the only way I've managed to get my family to an NHL Hurricanes game was a PTA discount night), I think we have every right to get worked up over what the players are making, since they are doing it at the expense of our ability to go see them in person. And the owners as well, but stop trying to make me feel happy for the multi-millionaires.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

No one is trying to make you feel happy for anyone, honestly. I was only talking about the idea that players won't keep making more and more and more.

Yeah, it sucks for all of our families. But this is capitalism and families are getting squeezed out. Not the players' fault, not the owners fault, but rather that businesses and people are willing to pay more than you or I can comfortably afford.

[oykib]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

With ticket prices continuing to rise for professional sports past the point that the average family can attend many games (I still refuse to even contemplate what my wife spent for me to go to the CAR/NED Monday night game, and the only way I've managed to get my family to an NHL Hurricanes game was a PTA discount night), I think we have every right to get worked up over what the players are making, since they are doing it at the expense of our ability to go see them in person. And the owners as well, but stop trying to make me feel happy for the multi-millionaires.

Player salaries have NOTHING to do with how much the owner charges. The players' share of the revenue is the lowest it has been in decades. That hasn't stopped the owners from continually squeezing blood from stones.

[molson]

I think regardless of what the players are paid the owners are going to charge what the demand will bear. People are willing to pay more and more.

[Swaggs]

I think the general trend is that franchises are making smaller stadiums for more intimate (re: expensive) experiences for the paying customers and, more importantly, the large corporate donors that rent suites AND relying more and more on television and streaming to reach their broad bases.

I saw an article awhile back that suggested that the average capacity of MLB's parks was about 8K-10K more in the early 90s, when it peaked, than it is today.

I think this is particularly true in the Rust Belt and Midwest where a lot of teams that shared with football teams (before building separate stadiums) cut down significantly.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by oykib

Player salaries have NOTHING to do with how much the owner charges. The players' share of the revenue is the lowest it has been in decades. That hasn't stopped the owners from continually squeezing blood from stones.

Originally Posted by molson

I think regardless of what the players are paid the owners are going to charge what the demand will bear. People are willing to pay more and more.

Yep and Yep.

Also, baseball tickets are generally pretty affordable. I've definitely seen Braves games this past year for $12 a ticket. Yeah, it was upper deck, but try to see another major sport for anywhere close to that much. If you think that's a lot of money for a family, have you compared inflation costs of seeing an MLB game for a family of 4 in the 1980s compared to today?

[Buccaneer]

I bought many $3 tickets to see the Padres in the 1980s (or $12 if I had a family of 4). Are saying inflation has gone up 400% since then?

[ISiddiqui]

$3 in 1980 now is $8.50. So its a bit higher, but not terribly much. ($4 is $11.34 now).

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I bought many $3 tickets to see the Padres in the 1980s (or $12 if I had a family of 4). Are saying inflation has gone up 400% since then?

I think it's fair to compare it to other entertainment options and not just in a vacuum as pricing models have changed since the 80s. What did it cost to go to an NFL game, a movie, and Seaworld in the 80s compared to now?

SI

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by oykib

Player salaries have NOTHING to do with how much the owner charges. The players' share of the revenue is the lowest it has been in decades. That hasn't stopped the owners from continually squeezing blood from stones.

And they will keep doing that till people stop paying.

[CraigSca]

Could only find info for SeaWorld Ohio, but in 1980
Admission was $9. In 1998, it was $29.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Could only find info for SeaWorld Ohio, but in 1980
Admission was $9. In 1998, it was $29.

I was trying to figure out San Diego comps since we're talking the Padres and the Zoo and SeaWorld are what came to mind so I went with SeaWorld.

I wonder if we can see Padres/Chargers/SeaWorld/Zoo/Movie tickets plotted on a chart with "to get in" prices and "average" prices.

SI

[tucker rocky]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/...&vkey=news_mlb

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/...&vkey=news_mlb

Now that is a great signing and I think puts the Rangers in the drivers seat for the AL crown this year.

I wonder if Choo will bat leadoff or down in the order around 5/6?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Now that is a great signing and I think puts the Rangers in the drivers seat for the AL crown this year.

I wonder if Choo will bat leadoff or down in the order around 5/6?

My guess is it will be:

Choo
Andrus/Rios
Beltre
Fielder
Rios/Andrus
Soto
Moreland/DH
Martin
Profar

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by cartman

My guess is it will be:

Choo
Andrus/Rios
Beltre
Fielder
Rios/Andrus
Soto
Moreland/DH
Martin
Profar

That is nice looking lineup. Is Soto in line to be the #1 at the moment? I would think they have to be considering left handed option at that spot but otherwise this offense looks comparable to the Josh Hamilton years lineup.

If there is room on the wagon I might have to adopt the Rangers as my #2. Always kind of liked them because they are exciting and they arent afraid to spend money in order to win.

[oykib]

This might be a little early...

But if you're the Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, Red Sox or the like from a big market, don't you get together before the next collective bargaining agreement and do something to balance the lack of balance you have with big money teams from states with no income tax? I was sort of wondering why that hadn't happened before the last bargaining session. But I guess, at the time, it only benefited teams that weren't going to spend anyway (Texas was dealing with bankruptcy and Seattle sucked anyway).

I can't imagine that the players are going to claw back that much money in the next deal. Even if they go up from ~45% to 50-something percent, with the way current revenue is coming in, we're likely to see a lot of teams pushing that luxury tax limit. I don't see why the teams from the big money markets don't get together to force a change to the rules. If they don't, they're ceding a huge advantage to the Mariners and Rangers. I mean, you've at least got:

Yankees
Mets
Dodgers
Angels
Cubs
White Sox
Giants
Red Sox
Phillies

That block should have enough juice to get it done.

[MrBug708]

Tanaka will be posted

[BishopMVP]

This may only be interesting to a couple of you, but re: Ellsbury's power potential, one of the Red Sox ex-consultants posted some interesting stats and emails. Part 1 (background emails he sent to the team in 2009) and where he thinks Ellsbury's power will go.

[PilotMan]

PUIG!!!!!!!!! He does it again!!!!!

Spoiler

arrested! wooohooo!

Florida police: Puig charged with reckless driving - Yahoo Sports

[BishopMVP]

Anyone read the A-Rod/Levine emails? I'd only heard that they included "jokes" about getting Cano some steroids, but finally got around to reading them today and I'm just astounded that anyone who writes like this could be a President of anything, let alone the Yankees - Read the Alex Rodriguez and Randy Levine E-Mails -- New York Magazine

[Logan]

I thought it was fake when I first read them.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Anyone read the A-Rod/Levine emails? I'd only heard that they included "jokes" about getting Cano some steroids, but finally got around to reading them today and I'm just astounded that anyone who writes like this could be a President of anything, let alone the Yankees - Read the Alex Rodriguez and Randy Levine E-Mails -- New York Magazine

True. He sounds like a twitter fan.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Logan

I thought it was fake when I first read them.

Seriously - I still can't tell if they were actually texts sent around by a HS JV volleyball team.

Levine: My friend, I have always believed that in difficult times there r two ways to go. The easy way, which is to make excuses, be defensive, or blame others and shut it down. The better way is to take the challenge, get mad, get determined, and shut everyone up and perform to greater levels. I believe in u. I believe u will hit those levels. It has been a tough year in injuries, tough losses, underperformance, but we need a leader, that is you. Take the lead, get these guys going, put a chip on your shoulder. When u succeed it will be Yankees lore. There is nothing more powerful than that. I am here to support u. Tell us what u need.
Rodriguez: You are 100% correct. This is no time for blame or excuses. Is time for me to be a leader and rally the troops. I feel if I perform at a high level, put a chip on my shoulder and lead the way, then my mates will follow my lead. Is not how you start, but how you finish. Let’s get it going tonight. Thanks for the support and stay in touch.

[Logan]

I know there were some speculating whether Maddux had a chance to be a unanimous HOF admission. At the very least he won't be, thanks to Ken Grunick, Dodgers beat reporter:

Morris

Morris has flaws -- a 3.90 ERA, for example. But he gets my vote for more than a decade of ace performance that included three 20-win seasons, Cy Young Award votes in seven seasons and Most Valuable Player votes in five. As for those who played during the period of PED use, I won't vote for any of them.

How MLB.com writers voted in Hall of Fame balloting | MLB.com: News

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Logan

I know there were some speculating whether Maddux had a chance to be a unanimous HOF admission. At the very least he won't be, thanks to Ken Grunick, Dodgers beat reporter:



How MLB.com writers voted in Hall of Fame balloting | MLB.com: News

These nitwits that think they are important just annoy me so much. Just do your damn job and dont use your views to decide what a lot of people feel are important. This guy has no business voting with his views. Thanks for finding this article.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If keeping a p.o.s. like Bonds out of the Hall means Maddux can't be the first unanimous, then it's a price worth paying afaic.

And Maddux is hands down my favorite player of my adult life, no one else even comes close, I'd have loved to have seen him get that honor.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If keeping a p.o.s. like Bonds out of the Hall means Maddux can't be the first unanimous, then it's a price worth paying afaic.

And Maddux is hands down my favorite player of my adult life, no one else even comes close, I'd have loved to have seen him get that honor.

That's a little nuts, no? If you don't want to vote Bonds in, pass on him because he's a p.o.s. or because he faced a perjury charge or because you saw his head swell or because his numbers ballooned when he was in his late 30s or etc...

But what does all that have to do with Maddux?

[jbergey22]

Why isnt Curt Schilling getting more love? I get frustrated looking at this

[rowech]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

These nitwits that think they are important just annoy me so much. Just do your damn job and dont use your views to decide what a lot of people feel are important. This guy has no business voting with his views. Thanks for finding this article.

The thing that pisses me off is the fact that these kind of writers are the guys who glorified these players, did not do their jobs as journalists and uncover the PED era, and ultimately made their own careers and salaries off of these same players.

Thought Boswell did a good job the other day...

Baseball Hall of Fame vote has become an exercise in swings and misses - The Washington Post

[rowech]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Why isnt Curt Schilling getting more love? I get frustrated looking at this

I don't think Schilling will ever get in but with only being able to vote for 10 he's definitely not getting in this time. If he ever gets in, it'll be many years from now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Logan

But what does all that have to do with Maddux?

For me, nothing.

For that voter, he's basically disqualifying the entire era ... which I don't agree with but I can live with a lot better than the opposite approach.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

For me, nothing.

For that voter, he's basically disqualifying the entire era ... which I don't agree with but I can live with a lot better than the opposite approach.

The idiocy of him is that he voted for Lee Smith last year but not this year for some dumbass reason.

[gstelmack]

The Bill James book "Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame?" was an excellent read for me on this topic, and how one of the key issues is there are no set standards for admission. He talks about the changing voting schemes and how that impacted who got in. Great read.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

For me, nothing.

For that voter, he's basically disqualifying the entire era ... which I don't agree with but I can live with a lot better than the opposite approach.

What's funny is the guy he's voting for played in the steroid era.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by rowech

The thing that pisses me off is the fact that these kind of writers are the guys who glorified these players, did not do their jobs as journalists and uncover the PED era, and ultimately made their own careers and salaries off of these same players.

Thought Boswell did a good job the other day...

Baseball Hall of Fame vote has become an exercise in swings and misses - The Washington Post

This

[lungs]

A Hall of Fame without Barry Bonds in it is not something to be taken seriously.

[molson]

The ESPN reporters' ballots are always kind of interesting

Craig Biggio, Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux and Frank Thomas elected on ESPN's 2014 Baseball Hall of Fame ballot - ESPN

[molson]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

This

The voting is definitely a mess now, with all the different criteria voters bring to things the and wildly different opinions on the steroids issue, but I don't think its the voters' fault. Its the fault of the players' union and the owners. They choose to leave these determinations in the hands of the voters rather than address the drug issue themselves in a timely manner.

But still, the HOF is not the sole and only arbiter of a player's value, fame, or morality. It's just one little private club that has a bunch of voters. I don't have any problem with the necessary human element that's going to be a part of something like that. Another group could have a different process and enshrine players strictly based on statistics with no human factor considering morality, or how big a guy's non-statistical influence on the game was, etc, and people could choose to either care about that group or not.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Why isnt Curt Schilling getting more love? I get frustrated looking at this

And who are you calling nuts?? If you think Schilling is HOF worthy, you just opened the door to about 1000 other pitchers.

Even though Maddux is my favorite pitcher of all time, I have no problem with him (or anyone) not getting unanimous votes. I applaud people like Grunick standing on principle and don't vote just like everyone wants him to vote.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

And who are you calling nuts?? If you think Schilling is HOF worthy, you just opened the door to about 1000 other pitchers.

Even though Maddux is my favorite pitcher of all time, I have no problem with him (or anyone) not getting unanimous votes. I applaud people like Grunick standing on principle and don't vote just like everyone wants him to vote.

Wow,

The guy is 62nd in the history of baseball in WAR and this opens the door to 1000 pitchers? Good luck with that

http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...R_career.shtml

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Wow,

The guy is 62nd in the history of baseball in WAR and this opens the door to 1000 pitchers? Good luck with that

Career Leaders &amp Records for Wins Above Replacement - Baseball-Reference.com

I exaggerate a bit but I look a lot at Similarity Scores instead.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I exaggerate a bit but I look a lot at Similarity Scores instead.

3 Hall of Famers and potentially a 4th in Brown isnt bad company. Maybe a 5th in Smoltz as well.

[rowech]

I do find Kevin Brown and Curt Schilling to be pretty similar. I know there is a difference but it amazes me that Kevin Brown was off first ballot (not saying he should be in) and Schilling is somehow a travesty. I find Brown being one and done a much bigger deal than if Schilling never makes it.

[cuervo72]

You know, without those wins for Glavine...

(Really though, a 1.31 WHIP? eh. I guess he had a knack for not giving up HR.)

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by rowech

I do find Kevin Brown and Curt Schilling to be pretty similar. I know there is a difference but it amazes me that Kevin Brown was off first ballot (not saying he should be in) and Schilling is somehow a travesty. I find Brown being one and done a much bigger deal than if Schilling never makes it.

this has been my thought on schiling... he was more of a star than actually good. Kinda like Palemeiro racked up counting stats, without ever actually being good.

[sterlingice]

Greg Maddux won't be unanimous Hall selection - Yahoo Sports

Sounds like he won't be needing his voting credentials any more so give them to someone who will use them:

Originally Posted by article

Gurnick said Morris also was the only player he voted for in 2013 and added he intends to abstain in future elections.

SI

[miked]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

And who are you calling nuts?? If you think Schilling is HOF worthy, you just opened the door to about 1000 other pitchers.

Even though Maddux is my favorite pitcher of all time, I have no problem with him (or anyone) not getting unanimous votes. I applaud people like Grunick standing on principle and don't vote just like everyone wants him to vote.

Yes, way to stand on principles even if they are ass backward! Go principles!

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by molson

The voting is definitely a mess now

The voting has ALWAYS been a mess.

[PilotMan]

There is NO compelling argument for Maddux NOT to be in the HOF. Gurnick has made a huge mistake, but instead of owning it, he's just taking his ball and going home and saying he'll never vote again. I guess in his mind that's like saying I won't screw it up anymore, but I still stand by my convictions that I was right.