NFL Week 6

[TroyF]

Don't worry, Denver will lose their next 6 games and be 6-6 after 12.

I continue to be stunned at this team. In the second half of football games, this team just takes over. They don't just win the second half, they go crazy in it. In the third and fourth quarters, Denver has outscored the opposition 73-10. (add another three points in OT of the Patriots game)

The other guy I have to comment on is Kyle Orton. I bashed Kyle repeatedly in the preseason. I thought he was a one year stop gap at best. I even thought there was a chance he could get beat out in camp by Chris Simms. It's only six games, but I have to eat some major crow.

Look at these fourth quarter numbers this year:

26-36 - 462 yards, 4TD, 0 INT

OK, I understand there is one miracle 78 yarder in there. Take that out and look at the QB rating. it's bizzare. This guy isn't a caretaker. This guy can play a little bit.

As for the are they for real question? Are they a Super Bowl contender? I dunno. Are they going to the playoffs so we get a chance to find out?: it'd be stunning if they weren't there.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by remper

Did the Bears really have high expectations this year? Cutler isn't going to make the offensive line NOT suck. I watched most of the 1st half of the Broncos game tonight, and Orton had enough time back there to dance a jig before he threw the ball. Cutler has been running for his life most of the time. Also the Bears receiving corp is still laughable, but they have promise.

I liked Orton when he was in Chicago, but you're crazy if you take him over Cutler.

Orton seemed to do fine with the Bears last year. Have they lost a lot from that offense that I am unaware of?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by TroyF

As for the are they for real question? Are they a Super Bowl contender? I dunno. Are they going to the playoffs so we get a chance to find out?: it'd be stunning if they weren't there.

If they keep winning and get homefield they will be tough to beat.

[Neuqua]

Ay vay, I can't handle another week of Chicago sports radio with stupid callers clamoring for Orton. Time to bust out the iPod.

[Abe Sargent]

Orton Reminds me of two other QB's who won early in their career, but didn;t have great stats, and then were not given a chance later, despite winning records - Charlie Batch, Shaun King.

Ben Roecan;tspellhisname wasn;t great, but he won and he has come along quite nicely. I'm glad to see Orton beginning to do the same.

[Greyroofoo]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Ben Roecan;tspellhisname wasn;t great, but he won and he has come along quite nicely. I'm glad to see Orton beginning to do the same.

I always go with Ben Rotflmaoburger

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Neuqua

Ay vay, I can't handle another week of Chicago sports radio with stupid callers clamoring for Orton. Time to bust out the iPod.

I would take Cutler over Orton 10 out of 10 times. That said, Cutler has one major league weakness. It's the reason people close to McDaniels say caused him to be traded. When he gets inside the 20, he makes stupid decisions. Really, really stupid decisions. I think he's led the league in red zone INT's the last few years. His INT against the Falcons in the first half was a huge moment in that game.

I've been a Bears fan this year hoping to see Cutler do well. And you'd better believe I'd love to have Jay back there if it's 3rd and 10. But Orton is not just a caretaker. The guy is a far better player than i thought he was.

[Vince, Pt. II]

My turn to try my hand at subjectivity...

1. New Orleans
2. Indianapolis
3. Denver
4. Minnesota
5. New England
6. Atlanta
7. New York Giants
8. Cincinnati
9. Pittsburgh
10. Baltimore
11. Green Bay
12. Chicago
13. San Francisco
14. Arizona
15. Philadelphia
16. Houston
17. New York Jets
18. Dallas
19. San Diego
20. Jacksonville
21. Miami
22. Seattle
23. Buffalo
24. Carolina
25. Washington
26. Oakland
27. Kansas City
28. Detroit
29. Cleveland
30. Tampa Bay
31. Tennessee
32. St. Louis

Some notes...

• I think that New Orleans and Indianapolis are clearly 1 and 2, in that order.
• I think that Denver is a clear step below them, but easily by themselves at number 3.
• Minnesota at #4 seems right to me...they don't have any impressive victories, and they have some downright scarily close victories to mediocre teams. I don't think they're bad...just not a crazy good undefeated team.
• 5-7 seems to clearly be these three teams, but they could be in any order, arguably. New England looks really strong after the drubbing of Tennessee...but it was Tennessee.
• 8-11 seems to be another clear tier - easily a step below 5-7, but not that much better than the next group...
• I think that 12-16 is essentially a crapshoot. Philly probably deserves to lead this pack, but after the Raider debacle they need to prove their worth again.
• Dallas, New York and San Diego need to figure themselves out in a hurry, or they are going to find themselves out of it (if they aren't already). All seem to be trending in a negative direction, leaving them out of the tier above.
• Jacksonville, Miami, Buffalo and Seattle all need a lot of help, but they're not out of it yet.
• 24-32 are all pretty terrible teams. Carolina might be able to pull themselves out of this group on the strength of their rushing game, but the rest of these teams are downright terrible.

[Neuqua]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I would take Cutler over Orton 10 out of 10 times. That said, Cutler has one major league weakness. It's the reason people close to McDaniels say caused him to be traded. When he gets inside the 20, he makes stupid decisions. Really, really stupid decisions. I think he's led the league in red zone INT's the last few years. His INT against the Falcons in the first half was a huge moment in that game.

I've been a Bears fan this year hoping to see Cutler do well. And you'd better believe I'd love to have Jay back there if it's 3rd and 10. But Orton is not just a caretaker. The guy is a far better player than i thought he was.

That's more than fair Troy, I don't think I disagree with anything you are saying. In a vacuum, I would be genuinely happy for Orton and the Broncos success. Orton went to Purdue the same time my brother was there and I actually ran into him on occasion and he was a fun guy.

But quite simply, Jay Cutler is the superior quarterback. That's it. He's easily the most talented quarterback I have ever seen put on a Chicago Bears uniform and it's a trade I would go through with again and again and again.

Orton is put in a great situation for him and it's working out really well, the Broncos are in the AFC so it really shouldn't bother me all that much. But hearing "he's just a winner, all he knows how to do is win" drives me insane because I followed the Bears while he was our quarterback. I guess what I'm trying to say is, Kyle Orton is not the reason you win a football game.

The Bears over the last few years had a dominant defense and a decent rushing attack and in my opinion were hamstrung by our Quarterback position. This year I have seen Cutler make his share of mistakes, but he's got an offensive line in shambles and a defense with a questionable secondary (mainly at the safety position.)

*Cue Denny Green* The Bears are who I thought they were. A team that will finish anywhere from 8-8 to 10-6 depending on which way the ball bounces.

[jbergey22]

What Cutler fans need to realize is talent does not equal great qb. Why was Joe Montana great and why is Tom Brady and Drew Brees great? They see things most QBs dont. They arent blessed with cannon arms and great speed.

Why were Jeff George, Ryan Leaf, and Jamarcus Russell blessed with superior talent but were/are underachievers in the NFL. They dont work hard enough to read defenses and keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again.

Cutler is somewhere in between right now. The problem is he doesnt seem to learn from his mistakes. There is absolutely nothing about Cutler that makes me think he is a winner.

On the other hand Matt Ryan is a QB that will win a lot of games and be in this league a long time. He has the it factor.

How many of these articles do we need to read before we just realize he is just not going to learn?
THEIR OWN FAULT :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Neil Hayes

The Bears need to limit their mistakes because they employ a quarterback who will make more than his share.
Jay Cutler has such a great arm that he'll try to put the ball in places he shouldn't. Sometimes it backfires, as it did twice against the Falcons. Other times he's accurate and strong-armed enough to complete a pass he shouldn't have attempted, like he did near the goal line late in the third quarter when he threaded a pass between two defenders to tight end Desmond Clark.
''He's the type of quarterback who's really confident in his arm,'' said safety Thomas DeCoud, who intercepted Cutler twice. ''He thinks he can make every throw, so he'll try to get the ball to his receivers when he can.''

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Neuqua

*Cue Denny Green* The Bears are who I thought they were. A team that will finish anywhere from 8-8 to 10-6 depending on which way the ball bounces.

I find it interesting that you had more realstic expectations for the Bears this year than a lot of their fans despite the enthusiam you have for Cutler and the 9 wins they had last year.

You brought up some of the biggest reasons I was trying to tell most Bear fans before the season that they would struggle. Two below average safetys and an aging oline. Well plus I told them Cutler was overrated

[k0ruptr]

Originally Posted by remper

Did the Bears really have high expectations this year? Cutler isn't going to make the offensive line NOT suck. I watched most of the 1st half of the Broncos game tonight, and Orton had enough time back there to dance a jig before he threw the ball. Cutler has been running for his life most of the time. Also the Bears receiving corp is still laughable, but they have promise.

I liked Orton when he was in Chicago, but you're crazy if you take him over Cutler.

Before Favre signed with minnesota, I kept reading that it was the Bears division for the taking since they got Cutler FWIW.

[k0ruptr]

I'm pretty sure this McDaniels guy knows a little bit about football, and I'm also pretty sure he really really wanted Orton to run his offense. Maybe there is something there.

Originally Posted by TroyF

Don't worry, Denver will lose their next 6 games and be 6-6 after 12.

I continue to be stunned at this team. In the second half of football games, this team just takes over. They don't just win the second half, they go crazy in it. In the third and fourth quarters, Denver has outscored the opposition 73-10. (add another three points in OT of the Patriots game)

The other guy I have to comment on is Kyle Orton. I bashed Kyle repeatedly in the preseason. I thought he was a one year stop gap at best. I even thought there was a chance he could get beat out in camp by Chris Simms. It's only six games, but I have to eat some major crow.

Look at these fourth quarter numbers this year:

26-36 - 462 yards, 4TD, 0 INT

OK, I understand there is one miracle 78 yarder in there. Take that out and look at the QB rating. it's bizzare. This guy isn't a caretaker. This guy can play a little bit.

As for the are they for real question? Are they a Super Bowl contender? I dunno. Are they going to the playoffs so we get a chance to find out?: it'd be stunning if they weren't there.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Orton seemed to do fine with the Bears last year. Have they lost a lot from that offense that I am unaware of?

Orton ´08 : 198 YPG / 59% / 18 TD-12 Int / 79.6 Passer Rating
Cutler ´09 : 240 YPG / 64% / 10 TD - 7 Int / 87 Passer Rating

It´s not like Cutler is playing worse than Orton did last year or anything
He´s playing with a much more risky approach and a enhanced role without being that much more turnover prone (let it be 23-25 TDs and 14,15 Ints at the end) than Orton was last year.

Chicago is 3-2 with 2 losses by 1 TD against good teams, it´s not like they are that far off pace even when assuming they wanted to compete for the division lead.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Radii

uggggggggggggh.

Steve Smith: "I'm no longer an asset" | ProFootballTalk.com

Yeah Steve, it doesn't help that the scouting department sucks and drafted how many WR's now to help you that have turned out to be flops? Having an older guy than yourself as 2 WR probably doesn't help either, and hey you're not a spring chicken yourself either Steve. And you have a QB that has self-destructed starting with that playoff loss to the Cardinals. So really Steve the whole WR position is not an asset for Carolina right now.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by whomario

Orton ´08 : 198 YPG / 59% / 18 TD-12 Int / 79.6 Passer Rating
Cutler ´09 : 240 YPG / 64% / 10 TD - 7 Int / 87 Passer Rating

It´s not like Cutler is playing worse than Orton did last year or anything
He´s playing with a much more risky approach and a enhanced role without being that much more turnover prone (let it be 23-25 TDs and 14,15 Ints at the end) than Orton was last year.

Chicago is 3-2 with 2 losses by 1 TD against good teams, it´s not like they are that far off pace even when assuming they wanted to compete for the division lead.

You should let it go. jbergey has been on a crusade against Cutler for as long as I noticed him.

Oh and no one can run on Minnesota either.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

I looked again, and see my mistake.

I was just making sure I didn't miss something.

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

My pappy used to have a saying: When you have three guys running the offense, you have no guys running the offense.

/Madden

Indeed.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

We don;t have a camera angle that goes right down the goaline to verify though.

Which is one of the big crimes of the NFL against the fans. There needs to be a camera basically at all four pylons looking straight down each of the goallines.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Chiefs traded Tank Tyler away for reportedly a 5th round draft pick in 2010. I'm trying to figure out which recent Peterson draft picks remain on this team. I think Pioli has traded just about all of them away. We're going to have a LOT of picks in the upcoming 2010 draft.

[Logan]

I thought the original broadcast camera showed a much better view of the goal line (it was at a less extreme angle) than the close up they showed later on. Never saw it again.

The guys in the booth were right...the ref gave him the TD on the roll in (not seeing the down by contact), so that means the call was that he didn't have a TD until then, which would require conclusive evidence that he was in prior to the contact. No way you could say that was the case.

[Fidatelo]

Second straight game that I've been very impressed by Orton. I have to admit that, like TroyF, I was very, very wrong about him.

Also I am loving McDaniels. His offensive play calling is fantastic. Time management seems quite good as well.

Finally, I really liked the throwbacks this week. If it wasn't for the striped socks, they'd look quite good. I'm tempted to pick up an Orton jersey in that colour if I can find one, my old Sharpe jersey is starting to get pretty worn out looking.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Logan

You should let it go. jbergey has been on a crusade against Cutler for as long as I noticed him.

Oh and no one can run on Minnesota either.

Haha!

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Patriots cut Galloway, making him an UFA. Who says Belichick doesn't have a heart?

[Kodos]

Galloway has been terrible this year.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Neuqua

That's more than fair Troy, I don't think I disagree with anything you are saying. In a vacuum, I would be genuinely happy for Orton and the Broncos success. Orton went to Purdue the same time my brother was there and I actually ran into him on occasion and he was a fun guy.

But quite simply, Jay Cutler is the superior quarterback. That's it. He's easily the most talented quarterback I have ever seen put on a Chicago Bears uniform and it's a trade I would go through with again and again and again.

Orton is put in a great situation for him and it's working out really well, the Broncos are in the AFC so it really shouldn't bother me all that much. But hearing "he's just a winner, all he knows how to do is win" drives me insane because I followed the Bears while he was our quarterback. I guess what I'm trying to say is, Kyle Orton is not the reason you win a football game.

The Bears over the last few years had a dominant defense and a decent rushing attack and in my opinion were hamstrung by our Quarterback position. This year I have seen Cutler make his share of mistakes, but he's got an offensive line in shambles and a defense with a questionable secondary (mainly at the safety position.)

*Cue Denny Green* The Bears are who I thought they were. A team that will finish anywhere from 8-8 to 10-6 depending on which way the ball bounces.

I don't disagree with anything than the "Orton is not the reason you win a football game"

Sure, the Denver defense has played incredibly well. The O-Line is terrific. The receiving core is good. Yet you just can't have a poor QB do what Kyle is being asked to do and still win games. Kyle Orton threw 48 times against the Patriots. Do the Broncos win that game if he's even "average?" You can have your opinion, but I'll tell you it's wrong. He's got talent.

Now, is this the perfect system for him? Damned right it is. His surrounding cast is good. His coach is obviously one hell of a game planner. That said, look at his QB rating in the second half of games this year. 64-87, 837 yards, 5 TD, 0 INT. 122.4 QB rating.

Maybe it's a guy going through a hot stretch. Maybe he falls back down to earth and does it soon. Maybe it's a case of some average defenses. Maybe he gets exposed soon. But after six games, I have to say he's a hell of a lot better than I thought he was.

An aside - Looking at his numbers in Chicago, he was ok before his injury and horrible after it. Did he play the second half of last year injured in some way?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by whomario

Orton ´08 : 198 YPG / 59% / 18 TD-12 Int / 79.6 Passer Rating
Cutler ´09 : 240 YPG / 64% / 10 TD - 7 Int / 87 Passer Rating

It´s not like Cutler is playing worse than Orton did last year or anything
He´s playing with a much more risky approach and a enhanced role without being that much more turnover prone (let it be 23-25 TDs and 14,15 Ints at the end) than Orton was last year.

Chicago is 3-2 with 2 losses by 1 TD against good teams, it´s not like they are that far off pace even when assuming they wanted to compete for the division lead.

It was in response to Remper who said the Bears didnt have high expectations this year despite winning 9 games and bringing in Cutler. You'd think bringing in who some people think is a top 5 qb would improve the team. My point was Orton won 9 games for them with the same O'line-Pace and defense+Urlacher.

Ive also like this website for football stats.
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | QUARTERBACKS 2008

Notice Orton has a DVOA -0.9% in 08 with the Bears(meaning he was as average as one could be). You will notice Cutler has a -8.4% prior to the Falcon game(meaning he has been a below average QB YTD)

To take the comparison a step further. Orton has a 26.6 DVOA this year with the Broncos while Cutler had a 22.0 DVOA last year with the Broncos.

These ratings are subjective however IMO are a much better indication of how well a QB is playing over pass rating.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by TroyF

. An aside - Looking at his numbers in Chicago, he was ok before his injury and horrible after it. Did he play the second half of last year injured in some way?

He wasn't the same QB after his injury last year. It being an ankle injury on his plant foot, it's not entirely surprising. I know firsthand how tentative you can get coming back from a messed up ankle.

That said, I think it's another indicator that the Bears coaching staff is simply mediocre. They can't game plan for the personnel they have, nor are they particularly effective at developing talent, especially on the offensive side of the ball.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Galloway has been terrible this year.

Sure has. I was referring to the fact that if he released him after the deadline he goes to waivers where the worst teams have the first shot at him. The Ravens apparently were interested but no trade was worked out.

Then again, maybe he thinks so little of Galloway that he doesn't care.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Pats have cut FOUR players today, two of which will likely be resigned later today. Makes you wonder what might be going on.

[Fidatelo]

As much as I was skeptical about the Cutler/Orton trade, it was always because I felt Orton was crappy, never because I really liked Cutler. I think I've said this before, but to me he is basically Jake Plummer 2.0. Now, I'll flip to the other side and say that I was always higher on Plummer than most people, but he definitely had his downsides, most of which I feel Cutler shares.

What I'm liking about Orton is that I never have to worry about him deciding to lob up a left handed desperation heave while in the grasp of two defenders. There were always 3 plays a game with Cutler (or Plummer) where I clenched my anus in fear as the play unfolded. Sometimes the result would be some awesome play where you're amazed it happened, but more often it would be a turnover (or near-turnover).

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

These ratings are subjective however IMO are a much better indication of how well a QB is playing over pass rating.

I certainly don't like that it counts sacks against the QB.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I certainly don't like that it counts sacks against the QB.

I believe it only counts against them when an "average qb" would have been able to not take a sack in that situation. It tries to penalize the guys like Rodgers and Bulger who take too many sacks while it helps guys like Manning and Brees with the quick releases that dont get sacked. This is my understanding anyway.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

This is the problem with statistics in baseball vs. football. In baseball, nearly everything is on the individual whereas in football it's never clear. Sacks can't be all put on the QB, but at the same time the QB definitely plays a part in whether he gets sacked or not.

I've yet to find a system that really makes a ton of sense. DVOA is closer, but I'm not convinced its really all that informational.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

This is the problem with statistics in baseball vs. football. In baseball, nearly everything is on the individual whereas in football it's never clear. Sacks can't be all put on the QB, but at the same time the QB definitely plays a part in whether he gets sacked or not.

I've yet to find a system that really makes a ton of sense. DVOA is closer, but I'm not convinced its really all that informational.

+1.

I like the fact that they are trying to get into this part of the game though.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Which is one of the big crimes of the NFL against the fans. There needs to be a camera basically at all four pylons looking straight down each of the goallines.

ah well, if it´s any consolation : soccer hasn´t managed that with a freaking 24 feet wide goal, instead they had a little experiment with an extra referee on either side of the pitch standing next to the Post for 95 minutes ...

That´s one thing where i am jealous of hockey ...

@ jbergey : Didn´t even know about those stats (very casual follower of the sport) , thanks for pointing those out

[TroyF]

The Football Outsiders stats are terrific. There are a handfull of flaws, but they do a good job of pointing out things traditional stats can't always see.

The QB stats are through last weeks games, they'll be updated in a day or two.

Some of the things I like about the stats is that they take away hail mary INT's and count fumbles against a QB. It also penalizes a QB who might go 5-5 on third downs, but only one of those being a first down completion.

As Ronnie said, it's not 100% accurate. But I find them to be more accurate than any other source I've come across. If nothing else, their stats at least take into account strength of schedule.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I certainly don't like that it counts sacks against the QB.

I believe their research has led them to conclude that sacks are more a product of the QB than is usually acknowledged (too much credit / blame to the OL).

[JAG]

Originally Posted by TroyF

The Football Outsiders stats are terrific. There are a handfull of flaws, but they do a good job of pointing out things traditional stats can't always see.

The QB stats are through last weeks games, they'll be updated in a day or two.

Some of the things I like about the stats is that they take away hail mary INT's and count fumbles against a QB. It also penalizes a QB who might go 5-5 on third downs, but only one of those being a first down completion.

As Ronnie said, it's not 100% accurate. But I find them to be more accurate than any other source I've come across. If nothing else, their stats at least take into account strength of schedule.

+1

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Alan T

In all honesty, haven't we learned by now that the Patriots don't really need a reason to run up the score on anyone. If your defense mails it in, they'll just keep scoring on you until time runs out. Like it or hate it, that is just what they have done for a while now when they are able to.

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Does Denver really have to wear those uniforms? I like how both teams have the numbers on the helmets.

I actually quite like Denver's uniforms. The socks especially.

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

That said, I think it's another indicator that the Bears coaching staff is simply mediocre. They can't game plan for the personnel they have, nor are they particularly effective at developing talent, especially on the offensive side of the ball.

This is it exactly. The current Bears with a good play-caller possibly lead the division right now. The amount of stupidity present in each Bears' gameplan confounds understanding.

I've gotten to watch Orton in his last two games and he's still the same Orton he was in Chicago, and that's a guy I felt was pretty decent, but had some considerable flaws. The biggest flaw is that he's inaccurate enough so that while his receivers (if talented) can get the ball, they get it in a position that almost guarantees no YAC (i.e. they had to dive for the ball, had to change direction at the last second, etc...).

But this more demonstrates the superiority of the system McDaniels has put in place over the one in Chicago.

[molson]

Didn't see it mentioned here yet, but I'm surprised that the Carolina player that wiped out the Tampa Bay punt returner only got a 1-game suspension. I thought that Goodell regime was going to take a harder line on this kind of stuff.

[JediKooter]

I actually hope that Denver wins the AFC West this year. I'm hoping because it will maybe show AJ Smith what a fucking useless piece of crap of a head coach Norv Turner really is. Denver has Kyle Orton...Kyle freaking Orton (not John Elway) and are 6-0. Talent means dick if you have a head coach that can't prepare you week in and week out.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

This is it exactly. The current Bears with a good play-caller possibly lead the division right now. The amount of stupidity present in each Bears' gameplan confounds understanding.

Unless a good play caller was calling the plays for the teams playing the Vikings it would be very difficult for the Bears to be leading the NFL North under any circumstances right now being that the Vikings are 6-0 and the Bears have only played 5 games.

[Oilers9911]

Cutler is the more talented QB without a doubt. He is also a king-sized douchebag. I'm a Denver fan and even when they were predicting doom and gloom at the beginning of the season for the Broncos I was glad he was out of there. With Orton playing so well I am even more happy.

[INDalltheway]

[DataKing]

Jabar Gaffney? Why?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by DataKing

Jabar Gaffney? Why?

I assume it's because his routes are always short enough that Orton can hit him in stride.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

I actually hope that Denver wins the AFC West this year. I'm hoping because it will maybe show AJ Smith what a fucking useless piece of crap of a head coach Norv Turner really is. Denver has Kyle Orton...Kyle freaking Orton (not John Elway) and are 6-0. Talent means dick if you have a head coach that can't prepare you week in and week out.

I don't like Norv a bit. I think he's a very, very poor football coach. I think if I were a Chargers fan I'd hat the GM even more.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Norv Turner and Mike Nolan are two sides of the same coin.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

If somebody's actually still talking about this (not sure if you are here flere) I'll allow FootballOutsiders to explain it.

Originally Posted by FO

Finally, you may have been wondering where the Patriots' 59-0 shellacking of the Titans fits in on the list of the best DVOA games of all-time. The surprising answer: It doesn't. New England's DVOA rating for this week's win was "only" 117.5%. That's definitely the best single-game rating so far this year, but it doesn't make the list of the top ten DVOA games. That could change by the end of the year, but the Titans would have to get their act together enough to significantly change the opponent adjustments. (The list of the ten best DVOA games is found here.) The main reason why the Patriots don't make the list is that they didn't just take their foot off the gas in the fourth quarter -- they pulled the emergency brake and let the second-string offense skid all over in the snow. In their final two drives, the Patriots fell short on two third downs and a fourth down, and added a false start just for fun. Obviously, it doesn't matter when you are winning by 59, but DVOA does count every play, although at reduced strength because of the score. Here is New England's offensive DVOA by quarter on Sunday:

• Q1: 47.4%
• Q2: 116.5%
• Q3: 44.2%
• Q4: -67.5%

• Originally Posted by molson

  Didn't see it mentioned here yet, but I'm surprised that the Carolina player that wiped out the Tampa Bay punt returner only got a 1-game suspension. I thought that Goodell regime was going to take a harder line on this kind of stuff.

  What a joke. Injure someone off the field, 1-year. Try to kill someone on it, 1 game.

[MikeVic]

Is there a video of this Carolina thing?