The Trump Presidency – 2016

[NobodyHere]

China wasn't part of the TPP and was glad it didn't get signed.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

TPP seemed to be opposed by the far-left (because it gave breaks to companies) and the far-right (Obama supported it). The people that seemed to support it the most were moderates.

The idea behind TPP is good. Let us control trade around the world. There were however things in it that I think needed to be changed so I'm kind of torn. I was hoping we would renegotiate some of the terms instead of just handing a gift to China.

Yeah, I certainly can't claim to understand the details of the TPP, and I think there were a fair number of common folk who identify on the far side of either spectrum that made up their minds after the fact, and end up arguing against their own politics.

Personally, the idea of disconnecting from the model of cheap foreign manufacturing appeals to me on just a basic level, and I remember similar alarmist rhetoric in the '80s when the Japanese were inevitably going to buy us all out of our own country, but most of all I appreciate that I don't have even the slightest inking of what I'm talking about when it comes to global trade.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Also, when he recounted the story on the campaign trail, it stopped radical muslims for 25 years. Now its 35.

In fairness, with all the shit that has gone on, the campaign does feel like 10 years ago at this point.

[pbot]

Is it time to start talking about an age maximum to be president?

When the constitution was written, it looks like the average life expectancy was somewhere in the range of 35-50 yrs. Which makes sense considering the general conditions/medical knowledge available at the time.

Now, with advances in medicine, life expectancy in the US is somewhere in the range of 70-80 yrs. We have an age minimum to make sure the president has some level of maturity and experience to be able to execute the duties of the office competently. In the 1780's, there really wasn't a need to put a cap on age, as many people weren't living long enough for it to really be an issue. But now, alzheimers/dementia are becoming an issue. I see it in my own family as someone who was incredibly intelligent just five years ago at the age of 72, is now incapable of being left alone without risk of severely injuring himself because he has regressed so much. It is both heartbreaking and shocking.

Maybe the current president doesn't have those issues, maybe he just has the attention span of a gnat. Perhaps he rose to success on the back of Daddy's money, the ability to bully his way through life and rely on deep pockets to lawyer his way out of any situation either by winning or just draining the other guy's bank account to where they just gave up. But, he's the oldest president by age at time of inauguration. In fact, 3 of the 5 oldest at inauguration have been within the last 40 years. Bush1 64 yrs/ 6 months, Reagan 69 yrs / 11 months and Trump 70 yrs / 7 months. The other two on the list - William Henry Harrison and James Buchanan were president in the 40's and 50's. The 1840's and 1850s. The 6th oldest? Zachary Taylor - president in 1849. Eisehhower was 62 when inaugurated in 1953. Truman and Ford were 60 & 61 respectively, Nixon was 56, LBJ was 55, Bush2 54, Carter was 52, FDR 51, Obama 47, Clinton 45, Kennedy 43.

At this point Trump is who is he is, he's not going to change and isn't likely to become more stable with time. But it isn't just him, I'm not sure how fit Clinton is either, I think she's got her own issues as well. Was Reagan really fully aware of what was going on in his second term (or first for that matter)?

Anyway, I wouldn't be opposed to some age cap that says something like you can't be president if your term extends into/beyond the age of 70.

[Thomkal]

I agree with you here Pbot. Thought this when McCain was running for President, and seeing Senators/Reps being wheeled in on wheelchairs for votes. My Dad was a very active "farmer's boy" right until he was diagnosed with at the time we thought was Parkinson's Disease. How many members of Congress/those running for President are checked on a yearly basis for diseases like this that can do such horrible things to the mind and body? How many of us on the board here in our 50's/60's are at 100% physically/mentally? I'm certainly not.

Trump and Clinton and Sanders were of concern to me because of their age. Trump seems very stressed out already not a year into his presidency-what effect is that going to have on his health going forward? So I certainly think some sort of maximum age limit should be added to the Constitution.

[Kodos]

Not joking at all here. My mother died of dementia a few years back after 6 years or so of mental decline/personality change/increasing belligerence. I would not be surprised at all if some day we find out that Trump was in the throws of dementia throughout his Presidency. He seems to have many of the symptoms.

[stevew]

70 year olds fade fast. It's also why i was less than thrilled with Hillary or especially Bernie as the other options this cycle. Something like 1 in 3 70+ year olds begin to experience dementia and it only increases as they age. With the presidency realistically aging someone at a rate far more than normal, it's absolutely nuts to put such aged people in that office IMO. And that's before you even do the calculus of how nuts Trump is in the first place.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by pbot

Was Reagan really fully aware of what was going on in his second term (or first for that matter)?

The difference is that Reagan had a personality which allowed him to look and act sensibly even when he declined somewhat, Trump is so arrogant he's potentially dangerous in my opinion and he doesn't recognize his lack of restraint or judgement at all.

Anyway, I wouldn't be opposed to some age cap that says something like you can't be president if your term extends into/beyond the age of 70.

+1

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I find the TPP ballet particularly fascinating, from all sides. 6 months before the election there was a national tour/rally against the TPP featuring notable conservative icons like Tom Morello, Anti-Flag and Jello Biafra. Most of the search results from 2016 relating to stopping the TPP are from far-left sources, but after Trump actually pulled out seemingly everyone in the entire world shifted their opinion/narrative.

Hmmm? Trump was against it during the campaign, so the fact that he pulled out was no surprise at all. Hillary and Bernie were on opposite sides of the TPP agreement and it was a big issue in the primary, which is why you see the far left still opposed to it but the moderate left in here defending it.

[Ben E Lou]

Bye-bye Bannon.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Bye-bye Bannon.

If going solely by his white nationalist support, this makes absolutely no sense. But maybe he thinks he doesn't really need him anymore to keep that support.

Either way, he can go back to his real job as a KD Lang covers singer.

[Thomkal]

Bannon out as White House chief strategist - POLITICO

Best move he's made yet

[Ben E Lou]

If this is true...wow. Imagine a public Bannon-Trump war.

Hearing from a source that Bannon is going ugly. Stay tuned...

— Joy Reid (@JoyAnnReid) August 18, 2017

[Ben E Lou]

Source close to Bannon confirms Bannon expected to return to Breitbart after a WH exit

— Gabriel Sherman (@gabrielsherman) August 18, 2017

[kingfc22]

Shit show just racketed up another 10 rungs.

[Toddzilla]

Credit where it is due, getting rid of a white supremacist is a good thing

[JPhillips]

Steve Bannon just told me he resigned from the White House two weeks ago @POTUS #Bannon

— Sara A. Carter (@SaraCarterDC) August 18, 2017

[Kodos]

Does Sara A. Carter work over at SportsDigs?

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

If this is true...wow. Imagine a public Bannon-Trump war.

Hearing from a source that Bannon is going ugly. Stay tuned...

— Joy Reid (@JoyAnnReid) August 18, 2017

Where have those sources been for Bannon's life?

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Credit where it is due, getting rid of a white supremacist is a good thing

Indeed. Scary thing is his thoughts on North Korea were of a sane man while the guy in charge is a raging lunatic.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Does Sara A. Carter work over at SportsDigs?

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

If this is true...wow. Imagine a public Bannon-Trump war.

Hearing from a source that Bannon is going ugly. Stay tuned...

— Joy Reid (@JoyAnnReid) August 18, 2017

[Ben E Lou]

BANNON OUT: PREPARE FOR WAR | Daily Wire

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

BANNON OUT: PREPARE FOR WAR | Daily Wire

According to the Times, Bannon submitted his resignation to Trump on August 7, but the announcement of his ouster was delayed until today thanks to the events in Charlottesville.

Huh? Oooh, conspiracy... Charlottesville was an inside job.

[Thomkal]

You've channelled your "inner Steve Bannon" for that Easy Mac

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

You've channelled your "inner Steve Bannon" for that Easy Mac

Wait, does that mean I'll learn how to... you know...

[Kodos]

You'll make it look Easy.

[dave731]

So does anyone else see the season finale as Pence being sworn in as 46?

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by dave731

So does anyone else see the season finale as Pence being sworn in as 46?

[JPhillips]

A picture from my childhood:

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by dave731

So does anyone else see the season finale as Pence being sworn in as 46?

Yes actually:

'Art Of The Deal' Co-Author Tony Schwartz Predicts Trump's About To Resign | HuffPost

[Atocep]

Unless impeachment is imminent I think he'd need a way to resign while showing he accomplished everything he set out to do. He could sell a lot of boxes being checked off to his base (and obstruction from house and/or senate preventing more wins) but the big one he's still missing is the wall.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Unless impeachment is imminent I think he'd need a way to resign while showing he accomplished everything he set out to do. He could sell a lot of boxes being checked off to his base (and obstruction from house and/or senate preventing more wins) but the big one he's still missing is the wall.

He doesn't have to do anything. If he resigns, it'll be because the swamp wouldn't let him do the things he wanted to do. It's everyone else's fault, not his.

His base will lap it up.

He has degraded the office to a point that we'll have more "outsiders" try to run for office and create more disillusionment with government.

Trump will make more money has a martyr to his base, he'll be holding rallies until his dying day and turning a profit. He'll armchair quarterback through twitter all leaders even after being out of office and he'll be validated because he held the highest office in the nation.

The biggest hope is that he is found guilty of violating a law, that will be a means of at least discrediting his lobs. That being said, he'll pull a Nixon and resign before that occurs (and Pence will pardon the lot of them). His base will love him regardless and in the years after his death he'll be deified. (Unlike Nixon, Trump will always have social media as a means of distorting the truth and rallying his base).

The good news if there is any, is that if the democrats have any sense of competence (I hear John snickering), they could at least in the future get a small majority (doubtful)...

The other good news is that more morons (like Kid Rock) run for office, and will ultimately be contained due their sheer incompetence (much like Trump).

The bad news is that Trump may be the death knell for America, or the start of a long quagmire for a number of years until hopefully someone can bring professionalism back to government.

60% of Trump's voters are still with him, he has yet to fulfill even the basest of promises (Supreme Court was a gimme). They simply are too fanatical and too resistant to the idea that compromise is the only way to progress. Their leader had Congress, the Courts and the zealous backing and they couldn't close the deal, they went towards the ethno-state policy rather than tax reform (and tax cuts for the ultra rich) and now it's all falling apart.

Trump may be a lame duck president in his first year, that's an amazing level of incompetence.

As we fall more into a morass of the opioid addiction, China asserting all trade dominance, automation and the death of the middle class, race issues, women rights issue and the specter of Russia's resurgence plus North Korea/Iran's nuclear goals, I foresee a very neutered US. I would hope that due to our immense natural resources, innovation and immigration (we're the greatest nation in the world right?!?), we could stave off decline, but it seems more and more likely we will watch from the sidelines.

Meanwhile, I sit reading the news with

[molson]

I think it's more likely Trump would just disengage and take more vacations than it is that he'll actually resign. I've been reading how his "presidency is effectively over" for his entire presidency. It's not over as long as he has the title and the office. Why leave?

I have some hope that the Russia investigation will lead to an impeachment that could save us all.

But I'm not sure Mueller could or would offer immunity in exchange for resignation. That doesn't pass the ethical smell test and it feels awfully political for a criminal investigation. I haven't read a definitive answer I trust on that yet.

[Edward64]

IMO wishful thinking he'll resign.

I don't see him quitting unless Mueller finds something really incriminating. I don't really think Trump conspired with the Russians, lower level contacts yes but himself conspiring - no.

I can't see him resigning even if impeachment is started because he'll fight it and there is 35-42% that will stand by him.

And if it comes close to him being forced out, I still think there is a high likelyhood he will escalate and/or start a war with someone (e.g. NK, Venezuela) to distract.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I don't see him quitting unless Mueller finds something really incriminating. I don't really think Trump conspired with the Russians, lower level contacts yes but himself conspiring - no.

I expect it'll be found he protected people who he know conspired - this is in itself conspiracy even if it can't be proved he asked them to conspire.

(heck he's already admitted writing a cover store for his son meeting the Russians so this isn't much of a stretch imho)

[JPhillips]

Trump fired the FBI Director because he was investigating the Russia connections and then he told the Russian Foreign Minister that he had more room to negotiate with the Russians.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

A picture from my childhood:

Trump thinks he's playing Survivor... and WINNING!

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Trump thinks he's playing Survivor... and WINNING!

Pence seems to be playing the game pretty well too.

[stevew]

He probably only leaves office in a casket or in cuffs.

Funny how its still wildly effective to drop a story on Friday afternoon in 2017. I mean may as well just lead with that on a Monday and cause some sort of crisis later in the week to bury it.

What's the military play in Venezuela?

[AENeuman]

.02

Trump will fill cabinet with boring and effective people.
Economy will continue to grow.
Democratics will keep attacking yet offer no vision.
Most importantly, FBI will not find enough to hurt trump. He will be vindicated from witch hunt.

Result:
Re election more possible than impeachment, resignation

[JPhillips]

My prediction is that before the four years are over, Bannon will be back.

[Edward64]

Foreign policy impact with Bannon gone. Wonder what Trump & crew will come up with the Camp David meeting -- pullout, decrease, increase, status quo in Afghanistan?

Hawks soaring after Bannon's departure - POLITICO

Stephen Bannon may have been a political adviser to President Donald Trump, but his firing Friday could have an impact on U.S. foreign policy from Europe to the Middle East and Asia.

Bannon's exit clears an obstacle for backers of an active U.S. foreign policy in line with recent presidencies — and is a resounding win for Bannon’s internal rival, national security adviser H.R. McMaster.

Bannon was a regular participant in national security debates, often as an opponent of military action and a harsh critic of international bodies like the United Nations and the European Union.

He has also been a withering critic of diplomatic, military and intelligence professionals—“globalists” he says have repeatedly shown bad judgment, particularly when it comes to U.S. military interventions abroad. That put him at loggerheads with Defense Secretary James Mattis and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, as well as McMaster.

“If you look at the balance of power of isolationists versus internationalists in the White House now, it seems safe to say that the pendulum has swung towards the internationalists,” said Danielle Pletka, senior vice president for foreign and defense policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by stevew

What's the military play in Venezuela?

Don't know but if Trump needs a major distraction (and without nukes) he'll come up with something.

(Possibly humanitarian?)

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

My prediction is that before the four years are over, Bannon will be back.

Didn't think about that but I think there's a fair chance you could be right.

But I think there is also a fair chance that Bannon will disagree with Trump's policies going forward and make enough trouble where they stay estranged.

I'm rooting for the latter, I want to know what dirty laundry Bannon has on Trump.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

.02

Trump will fill cabinet with boring and effective people.
Economy will continue to grow.
Democratics will keep attacking yet offer no vision.
Most importantly, FBI will not find enough to hurt trump. He will be vindicated from witch hunt.

Result:
Re election more possible than impeachment, resignation

Regardless of how I feel about Trump now I'm still rooting for him to change/ succeed because it'll be good for the country.

If #1 and #2 is true, he may well deserve to be re-elected (I would add "listen to the boring and effective people"). However, I think the odds on #1 happening is pretty low.

[Young Drachma]

True believers, some of you.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

True believers, some of you.

I'm not a Trump or Obama supporter at all but both him and Obama have at least not impacted my retirement like previous presidents. I realize they have very little impact on the economy good or bad but it's still good to see a great return on my investments with all the other shit going on.

I also do honestly ask my ultra liberal buddy at work what exactly is the real impact on his life of this Trump presidency that he carries on about day after day? Charlotesville? Sort of like blaming Obama for the Orlando night club shooting, Ferguson, or Sandy Hook. Obama handled the situations better but really all these events are out of their control. It's also funny that these groups are wanting these statues down right at the beginning of Trump's presidency. Were the statues just built or is maybe the whole thing kind of political? Nah!

Sure I will will get blasted as a Trump supporter for not following the board's policy of outrage about everything and I would love a Clinton presidency right now as much anyone. I just am aware that a Pence presidency will actually have policy impact on my life and a Trump presidency is just a circus that doesn't really accomplish anything.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by panerd

I'm not a Trump or Obama supporter at all but both him and Obama have at least not impacted my retirement like previous presidents. I realize they have very little impact on the economy good or bad but it's still good to see a great return on my investments with all the other shit going on.

I also do honestly ask my ultra liberal buddy at work what exactly is the real impact on his life of this Trump presidency that he carries on about day after day? Charlotesville? Sort of like blaming Obama for the Orlando night club shooting, Ferguson, or Sandy Hook. Obama handled the situations better but really all these events are out of their control. It's also funny that these groups are wanting these statues down right at the beginning of Trump's presidency. Were the statues just built or is maybe the whole thing kind of political? Nah!

Sure I will will get blasted as a Trump supporter for not following the board's policy of outrage about everything and I would love a Clinton presidency right now as much anyone. I just am aware that a Pence presidency will actually have policy impact on my life and a Trump presidency is just a circus that doesn't really accomplish anything.

That's similar to where I'm at. The last time a Clinton was president it could easily be argued he did more harm than good towards liberal socioeconomic ideals, and to some extent I've convinced myself the most ineffective president (from either side) is the one that most represents my views...and Trump keeps getting more ineffective with every day. That said, the fact that he'll always have his finger on the button of our nuclear arsenal, and military might, makes it impossible for me to dismiss the rest of his absolutely vile bullshit, and/or a fundamental fear for my existence, even on the most selfish & personal level.

[PilotMan]

I've never been a fan of knee jerk reactions on the left or right. I think it just makes everyone look stupid in the end. I speak out about bullies, abuse, actions taken without thinking about the consequences and general ignorance for facts. Most important is knowing when to admit when you're wrong and correct your world view to suit.