The OFFICIAL NHL 2009-10 Offseason Thread

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by TurnerONU22

"Nash has the seventh-most goals in the NHL over the last five seasons. Here's the list -- 1. Ilya Kovalchuk (Atlanta) 230; 2. Alex Ovechkin (Washington) 219; 3. Jarome Iginla (Calgary) 200; 4. Dany Heatley (Ottawa) 193; 5. Vincent Lecavalier (Tampa Bay) 188; 6. Marian Hossa (Chicago) 187; 7. Rick Nash (Columbus) 177."

This list goes to show you just what an absolute bargain Hossa is at $5.2 million. He's at least $2 million cheaper than everyone else on this list.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

This list goes to show you just what an absolute bargain Hossa is at $5.2 million. He's at least $2 million cheaper than everyone else on this list.

because the contracts getting handed out this year and next are going to be lower than previous years due to the cap (unless teams are dumb, see the Rangers)

[TurnerONU22]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

This list goes to show you just what an absolute bargain Hossa is at $5.2 million. He's at least $2 million cheaper than everyone else on this list.

In terms of cap hit, yes, but not in real money. He's making 8 million per year for the next 7 years.

His cap hit is excellent for a team up against the cap. And the NHLPA is OK with it because he's making little money when he's reaching 42. I don't think they would have let Nash get away with a contract like that, because he's only going to be 34 at the end of his deal.

I think this is a necessary change that needs to be made in the next CBA, because when he retires, the cap hit comes right off the books, because he signed the contract before he turned 35. I think the rule should be that the cap hit stays on, even if the player retires. That way, it doesn't result in a situation where the team 'encourages' the player to retire to get cap relief.

[TurnerONU22]

Originally Posted by Chubby

because the contracts getting handed out this year and next are going to be lower than previous years due to the cap (unless teams are dumb, see the Rangers)

I'm not too sure about this, as the allure of the big stars will cause teams to ridiculously outbid each other. I think the 'role' players are going to be hit the hardest, and unless they take the pay cuts, they'll be replaced with players on entry contracts.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by TurnerONU22

In terms of cap hit, yes, but not in real money. He's making 8 million per year for the next 7 years.

His cap hit is excellent for a team up against the cap. And the NHLPA is OK with it because he's making little money when he's reaching 42. I don't think they would have let Nash get away with a contract like that, because he's only going to be 34 at the end of his deal.

I think this is a necessary change that needs to be made in the next CBA, because when he retires, the cap hit comes right off the books, because he signed the contract before he turned 35. I think the rule should be that the cap hit stays on, even if the player retires. That way, it doesn't result in a situation where the team 'encourages' the player to retire to get cap relief.

I understand the difference between cap hit and real money, but I really only care about the cap hit.

The "real money" aspect of a deal is meaningless to me, since I'm not the one paying the player. The way I see it, as a fan, the only number that concerns me is "cap hit", since that is what determines how much a team has left to spend on re-signing existing players or signing/trading for new players. That's what directly affects the competitiveness/quality of the team and that's really, as a fan, all I care about.

I'll leave the "real money" concerns to the owners, players, NHL and NHLPA.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by TurnerONU22

I'm not too sure about this, as the allure of the big stars will cause teams to ridiculously outbid each other. I think the 'role' players are going to be hit the hardest, and unless they take the pay cuts, they'll be replaced with players on entry contracts.

And that's the way it should be.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by TurnerONU22

I'm not too sure about this, as the allure of the big stars will cause teams to ridiculously outbid each other. I think the 'role' players are going to be hit the hardest, and unless they take the pay cuts, they'll be replaced with players on entry contracts.

We've already seen this start to happen. Compare the deals signed this year to the deals signed in the summers of 2006-2008. For the most part, again, Rangers aside, the deals are much more reasonable than they have been. I think this is in part due to concerns about the cap remaining static or going down, which is tied into the general sense of economic unease (which is a an issue in and of itself) and the fact that folks have seen what can happen to teams that are too top heavy contract wise (i.e., Tampa Bay).

This all goes back to my original statement, that I thought we had seen the last of many 5+ year, $7+ million deals. Obviously there will be exceptions for extremely talented, young players like Nash (and Gaborik, I suppose), but I don't see too many $7+ million deals for guys like Brad Richards, Gomez, Drury, etc. Then again, Camalleri did get $6 million and all it takes is one desperate team with some cap space.

[DataKing]

Originally Posted by bbor

I dunno what it would take to get him...or if he is actually even still available...but when i saw that hole in the second line it screamed Tanguay at me.

Tanguay was one of the first guys to jump to mind for me as well, but I'm thinking the price tag may be a bit too high for the Wings. Let's face it, they don't have a whole lot of room to work with, and Tanguay was a 5m+ guy with Montreal (not saying he's worth that much, but still...).

Looking over the list of UFA wingers out there, one guy that caught my eye is P.J. Axelsson. I've always liked Axelsson's game. He could probably be had for somewhere around 1.5m-2m and would make a nice addition to the team, I think.

[TurnerONU22]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I understand the difference between cap hit and real money, but I really only care about the cap hit.

The "real money" aspect of a deal is meaningless to me, since I'm not the one paying the player. The way I see it, as a fan, the only number that concerns me is "cap hit", since that is what determines how much a team has left to spend on re-signing existing players or signing/trading for new players. That's what directly affects the competitiveness/quality of the team and that's really, as a fan, all I care about.

I'll leave the "real money" concerns to the owners, players, NHL and NHLPA.

I think this depends on the market. I don't see Columbus ever spending to the cap, at least for a while. They're more of a 'budget' team, where they want to spend 45-50 million on salary, not worrying about the cap. Whereas Chicago, larger market, they can go to the cap, and exceed it in actual spending.

I will agree, its a bargain for Chicago, a team that can afford to go up to 60 million in salary, because they're able to turn an 8 million dollar player into a 6 million cap hit. For a club like Columbus, Nashville, other teams that are on a budget and don't approach the cap, I don't think it would be such a bargain.

[TurnerONU22]

I want to make a slight change of what I said before, I'll also add in that star 'role' players, meaning those who are in the top 5 of their 'role', will still get money as well.

The Jackets put a large amount of money into a 3rd line checking center, but Pahlsson, when healthy, is in the top 5 of his role. That's why the Jackets didn't pursue resigning Malhotra, who wanted close to the same amount of money, because he's not in the top 5 as Pahlsson is.

[DeToxRox]

Personally I have no qualms with the Nash deal. Columbus had to do it because they have no credibility as an organization to think a guy would take a long term deal (10 + years) for a lower cap hit. The reason why it works for Detroit is obviously they will pay up front but also because a guy has a good idea that Detroit will be good most of the time he is there.

Columbus is getting good but no way are they even close to the point where 10 years from now you'd think they could still be good. They did what they had to to lock up the face of the franchise to a reasonable deal.

[DeToxRox]

Villie Leino signed a 2 year deal today. He actually took a pay cut, to 800 K a season as well. Awesome stuff.

[TurnerONU22]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Personally I have no qualms with the Nash deal. Columbus had to do it because they have no credibility as an organization to think a guy would take a long term deal (10 + years) for a lower cap hit. The reason why it works for Detroit is obviously they will pay up front but also because a guy has a good idea that Detroit will be good most of the time he is there.

Columbus is getting good but no way are they even close to the point where 10 years from now you'd think they could still be good. They did what they had to to lock up the face of the franchise to a reasonable deal.

Agreed. There was a good article this weekend in our paper, discussing this same thing. Hitchcock was quoted in the article:

"I don't know that Columbus was considered as a serious place to play hockey (three years ago)," Hitchcock said. "There was potential, sure, but that doesn't get you very far if you don't coordinate, if you don't have an identity.

"You start the process of legitimacy as a franchise when you make the playoffs," coach Ken Hitchcock said. "When you take care of your own players, it's a good sign for the franchise. It's taking legitimacy to another level.

There's no way that Hossa (or other big name players) would have came to Columbus, because we're still not Stanley Cup contenders, and we don't have the history that suggests we'll be there any time soon. So our best approach is to lock up our guys long term (Nash), keep reaching the playoffs, then try to go after a Hossa type player.

[TurnerONU22]

Here's the list of players who filed for arbitration:

Anaheim Ducks: James Wisniewski
Atlanta Thrashers: Colby Armstrong
Boston Bruins: Matt Hunwick
Buffalo Sabres: Clarke MacArthur
Carolina Hurricanes: Tuomo Ruutu
Chicago Blackhawks: Aaron Johnson
Columbus Blue Jackets: Marc Methot
Detroit Red Wings: Jiri Hudler
Edmonton Oilers: Denis Grebeshkov
Minnesota Wild: Kyle Brodziak
Montreal Canadiens: Tomas Plekanec
New Jersey Devils: Travis Zajac
New York Islanders: Nate Thompson
New York Rangers: Ryan Callahan, Nikolai Zherdev
Phoenix Coyotes: Nigel Dawes, Daniel Winnik
Tampa Bay Lightning: Matt Smaby
Vancouver Canucks: Kyle Wellwood
Washington Capitals: Milan Jurcin

I saw this quote on Puck Daddy regarding Zherdev and it made me smile:

As for Zherdev ... god, what we wouldn't do to hear a rip-snorting evisceration of that floating underachiever from the Rangers.

[samifan24]

Can someone remind me how arbitration works? The player wants X, the team offers Y and a judge decides which is correct, right? Is there any way for players from that list to become FAs?

[samifan24]

By the way, where does Alex Kovalev go now that he won't be back in Montreal?

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by samifan24

Can someone remind me how arbitration works? The player wants X, the team offers Y and a judge decides which is correct, right? Is there any way for players from that list to become FAs?

If the arbitrator rules for say 3.5 million a year for Hudler, then the Wings can say we will not pay that and they become UFA. This is an example that could very well occur as well because if Hudler gets anything near 3 from an arbitrator (should it go that far) I think he will be shown the door.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by samifan24

By the way, where does Alex Kovalev go now that he won't be back in Montreal?

KHL?

[MikeVic]

Oilers!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Oilers!

Siberia >>>>>>>> Edmonton

Just ask Dany Heatley.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Siberia >>>>>>>> Edmonton

Just ask Dany Heatley.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

If the arbitrator rules for say 3.5 million a year for Hudler, then the Wings can say we will not pay that and they become UFA. This is an example that could very well occur as well because if Hudler gets anything near 3 from an arbitrator (should it go that far) I think he will be shown the door.

So several very good players could very well become UFAs in the next few weeks in that scenario.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

You know, I've been meaning to call you out on this... what's with the love for the Oilers? It drives me nuts how many Winnipeggers are all about the Oilers now. For fucks sake, those assholes tormented the Jets for years, and suddenly everyone is all 'but they're from Western Canada!'? Good grief, Alberta regards us like a retarded step-brother and yet we are willing to forget how much we hated that team for 20 years and just start sucking their dicks because they farm cows like we farm pigs? Maybe we are the retarded step-brother.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

You know, I've been meaning to call you out on this... what's with the love for the Oilers? It drives me nuts how many Winnipeggers are all about the Oilers now. For fucks sake, those assholes tormented the Jets for years, and suddenly everyone is all 'but they're from Western Canada!'? Good grief, Alberta regards us like a retarded step-brother and yet we are willing to forget how much we hated that team for 20 years and just start sucking their dicks because they farm cows like we farm pigs? Maybe we are the retarded step-brother.

hahaha. I have a pretty simple explanation for myself. The first thing I can remember about watching hockey (and sports in general) was the Oilers in the Stanley Cup Finals. And with Gretzky, Messier, etc. I ended up liking the team. I don't remember what year that was though.

Of course if the Jets played any other team, I rooted for the Jets. But I still liked to see the Canadian teams do well. I didn't watch hockey for a few years after the Jets left. But when I got back into it a bit, I just defaulted to the Oilers. And sometimes the Sharks, but I don't understand that one.

I don't really like Calgary much though.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I don't really like Calgary much though.

Amen, brother.

[Ajaxab]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

You know, I've been meaning to call you out on this... what's with the love for the Oilers? It drives me nuts how many Winnipeggers are all about the Oilers now. For fucks sake, those assholes tormented the Jets for years, and suddenly everyone is all 'but they're from Western Canada!'? Good grief, Alberta regards us like a retarded step-brother and yet we are willing to forget how much we hated that team for 20 years and just start sucking their dicks because they farm cows like we farm pigs? Maybe we are the retarded step-brother.

+1 I never understood how many Oiler fans would be in the Winnipeg Arena during the 80s whenever Edmonton was in town. I could understand Montreal and Toronto just because of the history, but the Oilers? It was brutal.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

hahaha. I have a pretty simple explanation for myself. The first thing I can remember about watching hockey (and sports in general) was the Oilers in the Stanley Cup Finals. And with Gretzky, Messier, etc. I ended up liking the team. I don't remember what year that was though.

Of course if the Jets played any other team, I rooted for the Jets. But I still liked to see the Canadian teams do well. I didn't watch hockey for a few years after the Jets left. But when I got back into it a bit, I just defaulted to the Oilers. And sometimes the Sharks, but I don't understand that one.

I don't really like Calgary much though.

I had the same experience of my first hockey memories being the Oilers in the finals (against NYI in '84), but that doesn't excuse you. The next decade of your life should have been spent learning to despise that team with every hat trick Gretzky put past our hapless netminders. By 1996 your hate for the Oilers should have been so ingrained that no amount of logic would place them at the top of your NHL food chain.

Fuck Edmonton. Fuck Calgary. Vancouver and their ilk are only inches more likeable (Kirk McLean can tell me how my ass tastes). The only acceptable teams to like from Canada are Montreal, and, if you for whatever reason feel so inclined (I can't imagine why), Ottawa. The Leafs never did anything to the Jets of any consequence, but they did hog up the CBC airwaves every week while the rest of the country wondered what arenas outside of Maple Leaf Gardens looked like. They are also from Toronto, which I hope you have at least been properly indoctrinated to hate unconditionally?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I had the same experience of my first hockey memories being the Oilers in the finals (against NYI in '84), but that doesn't excuse you. The next decade of your life should have been spent learning to despise that team with every hat trick Gretzky put past our hapless netminders. By 1996 your hate for the Oilers should have been so ingrained that no amount of logic would place them at the top of your NHL food chain.

Fuck Edmonton. Fuck Calgary. Vancouver and their ilk are only inches more likeable (Kirk McLean can tell me how my ass tastes). The only acceptable teams to like from Canada are Montreal, and, if you for whatever reason feel so inclined (I can't imagine why), Ottawa. The Leafs never did anything to the Jets of any consequence, but they did hog up the CBC airwaves every week while the rest of the country wondered what arenas outside of Maple Leaf Gardens looked like. They are also from Toronto, which I hope you have at least been properly indoctrinated to hate unconditionally?

I hate Vancouver more than any other Canadian team actually. I think anytime I was paying attention to hockey a lot, the Canucks were beating the Jets. I remember one game where it was the 3rd period of a playoff game, and Vancouver just tied it to seemingly send it to overtime... then on a face-off in the Jets' end with a few seconds left, Vancouver won the draw and fired at the net. The puck actually went in, but I think the time ran out before it crossed or something? Anyway, I remember the replay being shown so many times and it just crushed me. I don't even remember who won that game, but I'll be safe and guess Vancouver.

Heh, I liked the Maple Leafs in 1993 with Gilmour and Potvin. Other than that, they're whatever. And as for the city, I don't have any opinion on it.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I hate Vancouver more than any other Canadian team actually. I think anytime I was paying attention to hockey a lot, the Canucks were beating the Jets. I remember one game where it was the 3rd period of a playoff game, and Vancouver just tied it to seemingly send it to overtime... then on a face-off in the Jets' end with a few seconds left, Vancouver won the draw and fired at the net. The puck actually went in, but I think the time ran out before it crossed or something? Anyway, I remember the replay being shown so many times and it just crushed me. I don't even remember who won that game, but I'll be safe and guess Vancouver.

Heh, I liked the Maple Leafs in 1993 with Gilmour and Potvin. Other than that, they're whatever. And as for the city, I don't have any opinion on it.

Yes, that was Vancouver. The goal you remember, if we're thinking of the same one, was in game 6 of a playoff series that the Jets had led 3 games to 1. I'm pretty sure I was sitting in the stands behind the Jets net for that goal (albeit about 800 miles up), and from what I remember, the Vancouver player fired the puck at Essensa, who made the save, but then proceeded to bowl into him and push both he and the puck into the net. For whatever reason they considered this a goal, it won Vancouver the game, and they went on to win game 7 back in BC.

So, uh, yeah. Fuck Vancouver too! I now hate them more than Calgary, just for that memory.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Yes, that was Vancouver. The goal you remember, if we're thinking of the same one, was in game 6 of a playoff series that the Jets had led 3 games to 1. I'm pretty sure I was sitting in the stands behind the Jets net for that goal (albeit about 800 miles up), and from what I remember, the Vancouver player fired the puck at Essensa, who made the save, but then proceeded to bowl into him and push both he and the puck into the net. For whatever reason they considered this a goal, it won Vancouver the game, and they went on to win game 7 back in BC.

So, uh, yeah. Fuck Vancouver too! I now hate them more than Calgary, just for that memory.

I don't remember a ton of detail, just the scenario. And it was definitely Essensa in net.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I don't remember a ton of detail, just the scenario. And it was definitely Essensa in net.

Ya, I just did some searching, it was 1992. I think I was there, although I'm starting to have trouble with determining which Jets milestones I witnessed in person and on TV. Frickin' old age.

Also, now I'm remembering how much I hated Vancouver... Peca destroying Selanne... argh!! FUCK!

[Fidatelo]

Hmm, I'm wondering how accurate my memory is....hockey-reference says Vancouver won that game 8-3... I could have sworn it was much closer. 5-3 sounds right (empty netter). Weird.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by samifan24

By the way, where does Alex Kovalev go now that he won't be back in Montreal?

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

KHL?

Or Ottawa... I guess they were looking for a real character guy to fill the void left by Dany Heatley. 2 years at $5 million per.


Oh, and Francois Beauchemin is a Maple Leaf. 3 years at around a total of $10 million or so. (3 years at $3.8 million per).

[Honolulu_Blue]

So, if it's true that Beauchemin is a Leaf that gives them nine defensemen under contract: Beauchemin, Komisaerk, Kaberle, Exelby, Finger, Schenn, Van Ryn, Frogren and White.

I imagine they'll want to move at least 1, probably 2 of them for some forwards (since they are still pretty thin up front). I know Kaberle has been mentioned most often as a trade candidate, but he seems to be the only real offensive/mobile defensemen out of that lot other than, maybe, Van Ryn. Given his skill level and contract, however, he would garner the most in return.

It will be interesting to see what Burke continues to do with this team. The defense looks very sound and physical. Now they just need some, maybe not a ton, skill to match.

[johnnyshaka]

Kovalev to the Sens, $10 mil over 2 years.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Kovalev to the Sens, $10 mil over 2 years.

Too bad the Sens don't still have Yashin (or even Daigle), they could have the no-heart line:

Heatley
Yashin
Kovalev

[Suburban Rhythm]

Francois Beauchemin 3 years/ $10 M to Toronto

What the hell...Toronto is going for the anti-Tampa roster from last year.
They are going to dress 10 D and like 2 forward lines and hope to win games 1-0?

Edit...did scan close enough, HB beat me to it

[Travis]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Too bad the Sens don't still have Yashin (or even Daigle), they could have the no-heart line:

Heatley
Yashin
Kovalev

Heh, buddy of mine at work and I were just discussing who the last member of the "flatline" would be in Ottawa now that they have Kovalev.

Maybe they could deal for Zherdev?

[johnnyshaka]

Heatley for Zherdev makes a lot of sense...quick do it before the Oilers deal for either one!!!

[Suburban Rhythm]

Dola

Pittsburgh still need a #4-6 D. Problem is, all we have available would be picks, prospects, and Pascal "Don't call me Pasquale" Dupuis.

Preferably a guy who can kill penalties, and sort of cheap.

Of the guys in Toronto to fit that, it seems to be Exelby, but they aren't moving a guy they just signed for.

AND WE DON'T WANT JEFF FINGER!

Although it was never going to happen, hope around here was the Pens could entice Beauchemin, as he and MAF are buddies.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Kovalev to the Sens, $10 mil over 2 years.

The Sens have not learned anything over the last 17 years of existence. Keep drafting/signing guys that have no interest in teamwork/defensive play/winning.

Oh, and no way in hell is Kovalev worth $5 mil/per. No way in hell.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Dola

Pittsburgh still need a #4-6 D. Problem is, all we have available would be picks, prospects, and Pascal "Don't call me Pasquale" Dupuis.

Preferably a guy who can kill penalties, and sort of cheap.

Of the guys in Toronto to fit that, it seems to be Exelby, but they aren't moving a guy they just signed for.

AND WE DON'T WANT JEFF FINGER!

Although it was never going to happen, hope around here was the Pens could entice Beauchemin, as he and MAF are buddies.

What about Jay McKee? I completely lost track of him after he went to St. Louis and was injured all the time, but before all of that, he was a pretty solid defender in Buffalo and a great shot blocker.

Given his recent history, I imagine he could be had for a reasonable amount.

[Honolulu_Blue]

As much as I like the Flyers team, the Brian Boucher/Ray Emery combo just doesn't instill much confidence. The rest of the team looks fine and should be a lot of fun to watch.

I could see a Toronto/Philly game as a match between two teams trying to out truculate the other.

[Logan]

Someone take Wade Redden!

Seriously though, how about Roszival?

[bbor]

Obviously(i hope) Bruke has something up his sleeve after signing Beauchemin....not only do the Leafs have 9 nhl defencmen they have 2 more in the minors that could play.I'm just wondering who is going to move the puck if they trade Kaberle?

[DeToxRox]

Burke is obviously sabotaging the Leafs because he found out the Burke Twitter was run by a Leafs fan.

It all makes sense now.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by bbor

I'm just wondering who is going to move the puck if they trade Kaberle?

Luke Schenn... with his mind.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Luke Schenn... with his mind.

Uh considering Burke has all summer with Schenn I suspect he'll become the Leafs enforcer or else risk being benched.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

What about Jay McKee? I completely lost track of him after he went to St. Louis and was injured all the time, but before all of that, he was a pretty solid defender in Buffalo and a great shot blocker.

Given his recent history, I imagine he could be had for a reasonable amount.

That is a name that comes up alot in Pittsburgh now.

He would only have to play about 15-17 mins a night, mostly on the PK.

We currently have about $4M in cap space, and need 2 D and a backup goalie.

One of the two D is almost certain to be a kid who was in WBS last season, Ben Lovejoy-- aka the Reverend.

[Between the Reverend Ben Lovejoy and Kris 'the drink of the french astronaut' Letang, the Pens have some pretty sweet nicknames on D!]

He was an undrafted FA and finished the regular season in the AHL a +46. I know it's the AHL, but finishing +46 is still pretty nice.

He's an RFA, and won't command more than $750K. So somewhere around $3M to split between a D and a backup goalie.

[DeToxRox]

NHLPA filed their grievance regarding the Chicago RFA's. I have a feeling this might not go to well for the Hawks.