The Official 2007 NFL Draft Thread

[tucker rocky]

Now that the Quinn saga is over, the rest of the draft should start moving along.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

yeah... what's 30 million matter?

You know what they say...if you play well enough, you'll make your money up some other time in his career.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Sucks for Quinn. Not only does he lose out on a ton of cash by falling, but he still goes to a team with no talent.

He's used to that, though.

[tucker rocky]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Sucks for Quinn. Not only does he lose out on a ton of cash by falling, but he still goes to a team with no talent.

Tim Couch comes to mind.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Sucks for Quinn. Not only does he lose out on a ton of cash by falling, but he still goes to a team with no talent.

That's what I was thinking... usually the good thing for a QB about sliding down is you end up on a better team.

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

yeah... what's 30 million matter?

But he gets to be on his hometown team, it's so sweet!

[sterlingice]

Wow! An even bigger deal. Doesn't seem quite as nice now.

Nice fleecing by Dallas since we know that pick for Cleveland next year is going to be in the top half of the draft...

SI

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

You know what they say...if you play well enough, you'll make your money up some other time in his career.

uhh... yeah... sure.

[stevew]

Browns now have sore asshole.

[TazFTW]

Nice.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Wow! An even bigger deal. Doesn't seem quite as nice now..

SI

I didn't catch what the other pick was, what did they get with the 2008 1st?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

uhh... yeah... sure.

I agree, there's basically no way that he can make that money up now.

[SFL Cat]

Yeah, babeee. Good for my Cowboys.

[tucker rocky]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

Tim Couch comes to mind.

I hope Quinn does much better than Couch did for them though.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I didn't catch what the other pick was, what did they get with the 2008 1st?

2(4)

[Tyrith]

Cowboys got a kings ransom from the Browns here. As a Cowboys fan I have to say I"m REALLY happy about this trade -- trading a 22 for a likely top 15 pick and getting a free #2? That's awesome.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by stevew

I agree, there's basically no way that he can make that money up now.

Yeah... with the history of many 1st round NFL QB's, that 30 million very likely may not come back to him... We're not tlaking about the few million to drop a few slots, he dropped almost 20 picks in the 1st round - out of the top 3...

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by stevew

2(4)

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Cowboys got a kings ransom from the Browns here. As a Cowboys fan I have to say I"m REALLY happy about this trade -- trading a 22 for a likely top 15 pick and getting a free #2? That's awesome.

Umm.. wow... I hate the, HATE the cowboys... but that's a damned fine deal for them...

[sterlingice]

Amazing deal for Dallas. No wonder it took until 2 minutes to go. Cleveland blinked first

SI

[bulletsponge]

good deal for the Boys. they esentially trade down 14 spots and get a 1st for it. im betting the guys they are targeting will be there at 2(4) will be there too. odds are clevlands pick will be in the lower half next year also. the deal was too good too pass up

[cthomer5000]

I view that deal as totally reasonable from the Cleveland perspective, assuming Brady Quinn is a real QB.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Umm.. wow... I hate the, HATE the cowboys... but that's a damned fine deal for them...

QFT. Woot!

[Crapshoot]

Wow. Cleveland should just have called KC - Dallas wasn't going to take him. Horrible deal for Cleveland (though I guess if they thought of him as a decent no 3 pick, it makes a little sense). COuldn't they get a 4th or 5th next year as well?

[JW]

Oh, God. Have they stopped the draft now to do a Brady Quinn special? Lol. ESPN sucks.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Amazing deal for Dallas. No wonder it took until 2 minutes to go. Cleveland blinked first

SI

Good analogy and probably accurate. Again, nicely played by Dallas, I don't see how you can find anything wrong with this move for them.. they move down 16 picks to pick up what is likely a top 10, maybe top 5 pick?! Yeah, i think I'll do that...

They didnt' have a no-brainer pick here either... I think they may have taken a WR, but there are still at least 2, maybe 3 or 4 WR's that are around the same level on the board.

[tucker rocky]

Reggie Nelson from nfl.com:

ANALYSIS
Positives: Has a lean but well-defined physique with good chest thickness, developed arm muscles, V-shaped torso, good bubble and knotted calves … Has very good timed speed and sudden quickness to close on the ball … Shows excellent agility and balance on the move with the hip flexibility to redirect and change direction suddenly … His natural explosion allows him to stay tight on the hip of the receivers in the deep secondary and he will deliver his hits with good pop … Instinctive player who is more field smart than academically proficient … Physical hitter who loves contact … Hard worker in the training room, the type who pushes other players … Is often around the ball, playing with reckless abandon … Has the foot speed and steady acceleration to close on the ball in a hurry … Does a good job of distributing his weight throughout his backpedal … Pedals with ease and shows the body control flexibility to quickly redirect … Usually in good position to make the hit, keeping the plays in front of him … Plays alert in the zone and shows good route awareness … Consistently attacks the ball and shows steady acceleration and timing in his leaps … Has the valid foot speed to play the two-deep and the burst needed to run the field … Makes plays on the ball in the air due to his big vertical jump and natural hands to pluck the ball outside his frame … Does a good job of attacking the gaps in run support and he shows good urgency to close, taking proper angles … Even though he lacks ideal bulk, he is an explosive hitter … Works his way through blocks and will meet the ball carrier with good force at the line of scrimmage … Collision type of a tackler who likes to run through people, but will miss a few hits when he fails to wrap … Can press and shadow well in the short area, allowing little separation on vertical routes … Breaks from his backpedal with no wasted motion … Short strider who runs hard to accelerate … Does a decent job of cutting off the lead blockers angles on perimeter runs … Has an explosive break to the ball, even on three-step throws … Has the burst and elevation in his leaps to excel as a kick blocker.

Negatives: Instinctive player who is field smart, but has had academic difficulties and might struggle trying to digest a complicated playbook … Very good at making plays on the ball, but while he is a physical hitter he needs to improve his overall strength to prevent getting washed out by the bigger blockers working through trash … Times his leaps and has natural hands, but feels he is better served making plays on the ball rather than neutralizing the receiver (when he misses, he is slow to recover in attempts to get back into the play) … Shows good urgency to close, but must be more diligent of making the wrap tackle rather than colliding into his opponent (fails to reach out, grab and drag the ball carrier down) … Would like to see him attack the receiver to separate the ball carrier from the ball rather than try to make the big interception.

Compares To: Brian Dawkins, Philadelphia … Dawkins is bigger and more powerful than Nelson, but both are playmakers who rely on their explosive quickness to close on the ball. Nelson shows natural hands to make the interception and outstanding elevation in his leaps. While he might struggle with a complicated playbook, he has the field smarts to compensate for his academic struggles. He's no Troy Polamalu when it comes to exploding behind his tackles, but he will get physical.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I view that deal as totally reasonable from the Cleveland perspective, assuming Brady Quinn is a real QB.

I do agree with this. If you're Cleveland and you belive Quinn can be your QB of the future, there's nothing wrong with this trade.

However - I have heavy doubts on whether Quinn will be a good, let alone a great, NFL QB for Cleveland. So in that sense, I think it was a bad move for them.

[Eaglesfan27]

That trade makes me sick to my stomach. Amazing deal for Dallas that was mostly due to luck.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Yeah... with the history of many 1st round NFL QB's, that 30 million very likely may not come back to him... We're not tlaking about the few million to drop a few slots, he dropped almost 20 picks in the 1st round - out of the top 3...

His best case scenerio now at pick 22 would be to get a 5 year deal for around 15-18 million, with hopefully a voidable 5th year, maybe 6m guaranteed. At #3 he's looking at something around 6 years and 60 million, with at least 20m more guaranteed.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

That trade makes me sick to my stomach. Amazing deal for Dallas that was mostly due to luck.

There has to be a little more than that though.. I mean, Cleveland had to be offering the same deal to the last several teams on the board, right? Or at least close to it? Dallas just seems to have put enough pressure on them - and as someone said, they didn't blink..

Of course, the worry that KC might take him certainly helped..

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

That trade makes me sick to my stomach. Amazing deal for Dallas that was mostly due to luck.

Every team in front of them (especially the ones in the late teens/high 20s) had the chance to make a deal and didn't. Have to give them some credit for actually forcing the issue.

[Young Drachma]

It remains to be seen how this deal pans out. I think it was the best move Cleveland could make. And the kid has something to prove now. I mean, everybody is painting him as Ron Powlus or something, when just a few months ago, he was jockeying to be the #1 pick overall.

Let's not get carried away here. I think when you fall that much and when you're at that age, the money doesn't even comprehend yet. You're too busy wondering what's going to be of your future. So to be able to fall that much, but to end up playing for your hometown team...I'd venture to say that it's the best possible situation for him after Miami passed.

And there is a lot less pressure for him there, because that team stinks and everyone already knows it.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by stevew

His best case scenerio now at pick 22 would be to get a 5 year deal for around 15-18 million, with hopefully a voidable 5th year, maybe 6m guaranteed. At #3 he's looking at something around 6 years and 60 million, with at least 20m more guaranteed.

Exactly. The only way he recoups that money is if he becomes one of the elite QB's in the league.

[tucker rocky]

What does "chest thickness and knotted calves" have to do with football skills?

Just curious.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

It remains to be seen how this deal pans out. I think it was the best move Cleveland could make. And the kid has something to prove now. I mean, everybody is painting him as Ron Powlus or something, when just a few months ago, he was jockeying to be the #1 pick overall.

Let's not get carried away here. I think when you fall that much and when you're at that age, the money doesn't even comprehend yet. You're too busy wondering what's going to be of your future. So to be able to fall that much, but to end up playing for your hometown team...I'd venture to say that it's the best possible situation for him after Miami passed.

And there is a lot less pressure for him there, because that team stinks and everyone already knows it.

I'd say the best possible Scenario for him after Miami passed was for someone to trade up and take him at #10.

You're really easily brushing off 10's of millions of dollars here as stevew illustrated..

[sterlingice]

Did someone just say Willie Roaf as "possible" HOF'er? And no mention at all for Will Shields as HOF?

SI

[sterlingice]

I believe this falls under "what. the. fuck."

SI

[stevew]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Exactly. The only way he recoups that money is if he becomes one of the elite QB's in the league.

Which technically, he wouldn't actually be recouping anything, since in either scenerio if he becomes a star, he basically gets the same 2nd contract.

[DeToxRox]

Dwayne Bowe will get 5-6 balls thrown his way over 20 yards all year.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by stevew

Which technically, he wouldn't actually be recouping anything, since in either scenerio if he becomes a star, he basically gets the same 2nd contract.

Good point. Not like if he goes 1.3 he gets less money in his 2nd deal because of what he got as the 1.3...

[Vinatieri for Prez]

If you're Romeo Crennel and Phil Savage, next year's draft is irrelevant. You need to try and win sooner rather than later, and it generates incredible buzz for the city. In the immortal words of Tom Cruise, sometimes you just have to say "what the fu$k."

[wade moore]

Steve Young.

SHUT THE FUCK UP!

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I do agree with this. If you're Cleveland and you belive Quinn can be your QB of the future, there's nothing wrong with this trade.

However - I have heavy doubts on whether Quinn will be a good, let alone a great, NFL QB for Cleveland. So in that sense, I think it was a bad move for them.

Yeah, if there are doubts it's with the player. but everyone around here is going on like Cleveland gave up their entire future for Quinn. I think the value is dead-on from the perspective of how the Browns obviously have him valued.

It's just easier to say Dallas won because it's a slam-dunk good deal for them. You move down what... 15 picks? and pick a 1st that should be mid-round or higher next year.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by wade moore

There has to be a little more than that though.. I mean, Cleveland had to be offering the same deal to the last several teams on the board, right? Or at least close to it? Dallas just seems to have put enough pressure on them - and as someone said, they didn't blink..

Of course, the worry that KC might take him certainly helped..

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Every team in front of them (especially the ones in the late teens/high 20s) had the chance to make a deal and didn't. Have to give them some credit for actually forcing the issue.

The Cowboys didn't force it. The Chiefs being ready to take Quinn forced their hand. A few factors came together to make this work, and the Cowboys were lucky that it all happened.

[tucker rocky]

Chefs trade WR Dante Hall, pick Dwayne Bowe WR. Why?

[Young Drachma]

Not brushing it off. Just saying that he can recoup it in other ways down the road. Because this is the NFL. I tend to think that a lot of what helps guys succeed or fail in this league -- and history has shown it -- is really about circumstances, expectations and what the guy's mental state is coming into his first few years.

How many of these guys do we hear about who are heralded, treated as deities, only to crack under pressure. So on face, if I follow what you all say...that he's lost somewhere between $12-15m in guaranteed money on his first contract.

This kid could be the QB of the Browns for the next decade. They will pay him after this, if he's the goods. So I'm saying, the trade is surely a risk. But for Cleveland, it's a risk that you take because the upside is worth it and if you fail? Meh...better than paying a veteran to come in and languish.

As for Quinn, after the Miami thing..there wasn't anything he could do. So what's he supposed to do? Cry in his milk? Make his girlfriend give him head in the green room? I mean....stuff happens. It's life. If he's worth his salt, the legacy of being a good or even great quarterback in the NFL is up to him. It doesn't matter what pundits, Mel Kiper or any of us text sim geeks think about him.

And this coming from the guy who didn't like him or Notre Dame, in the post-Ty era and figured he was overrated. I just think if he manages to come out of this on top, that it'll make for a pretty darn good story.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Yeah, if there are doubts it's with the player. but everyone around here is going on like Cleveland gave up their entire future for Quinn. I think the value is dead-on from the perspective of how the Browns obviously have him valued.

It's just easier to say Dallas won because it's a slam-dunk good deal for them. You move down what... 15 picks? and pick a 1st that should be mid-round or higher next year.

Dallas lucked into being in the perfect spot on the board.

Great move for Dallas. Good move for Cleveland.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

Chefs trade KR Dante Hall, pick Dwayne Bowe WR.

That's why.

[WVUFAN]

I'm not a ND fan, but I feel Quinn will wind up being a better QB in the NFL than Russell will be. Far better.

NE will grab Posluszny here.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

Chefs trade WR Dante Hall, pick Dwayne Bowe WR. Why?

To get someone to catch the ball?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

Chefs trade WR Dante Hall, pick Dwayne Bowe WR. Why?

Dante Hall has never been much of a receiver, basically because he's not the right size. He was #4 or #5 on their depth chart when he was traded.

SI