2009 College Football: Week 2 Discussion

[MrBug708]

He went to SC to be a running back. No one else wanted him at RB. I do find it hard to believe Carroll would keep him around just to be depth at the position, no?

Maybe USC shouldn't bent to the whims of players so much? It seems to have gotten them into troubles in the past

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Given the QB being a freshman, I'd think it has to look prettier than it might otherwise. That's a hell of a lot of noise to deal with and I really do think coastal trips (in either direction) take more out of teams than we all give credit for.

I still don't honestly see UCLA is anything more than a 5-7 win team as they currently stand (no idea what your own expectations are, higher or lower or the same or what) -- youth at QB is dangerous, the defense was vulnerable when it got tired & there are better offenses that will tax it as much or moreso -- but today's win was fair & square and deserves however much credit they'd like to take for it.

I would be surprised if UCLA has five wins at this point. They will be heavily favored to beat KState at home next week (KState which lost to LA-LAfayette), and that's three wins right there. Washington State's (a roadie, admittedly) is a probable win as well, and they'll have beatable opponents in Washington and Arizona State coming into Pasadena.

I also personally think Stanford and Arizona on the road, and Oregon at home, will be tough games but winnable. They may not win all of them, but figure them to pull out at least one, maybe two. Cal at home, Oregon State on the road, USC at the Coliseum, those are probably losses (although Cal also has notorious issues playing UCLA at the Rose Bowl).

All told, that makes 7 wins likely (at least), especially with the UT win (an expected loss, more or less) on the books. My guess is they'll finish 8-4 and 3rd to 5th in conference, depending on how they do in particular matchups against those conference foes.

Youth at QB is a problem, for sure, but I think Prince will grow out of that. And if he doesn't, I think Neuheisel won't be afraid to go with Brehaut, the more highly regarded backup. The offense is going to improve, you can count on that. Those RBs, who did decently well against a tough UT and aggressive UT defense, are almost all redshirt freshmen and sophomores. How many times did ESPN point out today that the UCLA line had three new starters, including a true freshman (and that didn't even include Stan Hasiak, another true freshman seeing significant time). The RBs and WRs and TEs are all deep and talented. Once Prince gets a handle on things (and he's already much better than last year's Kevin Craft), the offense is going to be fairly solid.

On D, you're right that depth is an issue, and the defense did falter a little late. But that was as much because of UT's relentless attack on the same spots. You keep throwing a beefy, experienced line at a defense, with big backs, and running it up the gut, you're going to eventually get that D to get abit tired. Fact is, that tired D still had plenty left to stop the UT's run offense at the end, and that was without Price out there. The depth will improve, too. The guys behind the starters, like the offense, are redshirt and true freshman and some sophomores for the most part. They will get stronger as the season goes along, and they learn from veteran leaders like Price, Carter, Verner, and the Bozworth twins.

This team is much, much better than last year's team, playing a weaker schedule this year than last, and last year they got four wins. So I would be stunned if they ended up with 5 or even 6 wins. I say 7 is the minimum, short of a complete fall apart, and 9 is the max.

We'll see, though. It's a long season, and there are many roads still left to travel.

[the_meanstrosity]

Aside from Florida, the SEC is no better than any other conference right now. LSU and Georgia were both vastly overrated early. Alabama had a nice win over Virginia Tech, but it took them a heck of a fourth quarter effort to do it. The Pac 10, Big 12, SEC, Big 10, etc are all pretty equal at this point. They have their good wins and bad losses over each other.

Originally Posted by Balldog

Its the SEC then everyone else. Big Ten is no worse than the ACC, Big East, Big 12 and the Pac-10 may be slightly better I'm not sure yet.

[gstelmack]

There's a lot of parity in college football right now, with very few cupcakes and very few elite teams. Where the big programs maintain their advantage is not so much in starter talent as in depth; they'll be able to weather injuries much better and be fresher at the end of the season when everything comes together. But a lot of "cupcakes" and lower-tier teams are either outright beating or at the least hanging in there with a chance to win over the so-called "elite" teams.

[the_meanstrosity]

Definitely. I enjoy seeing teams like Central Michigan, Houston, Louisiana Lafayette, Bowling Green, etc competing with the BCS conferences. You're probably never going to confuse those teams with national championship contenders, but those programs are now on even footing with the the lesser to middle tier BCS conference programs.

Originally Posted by gstelmack

There's a lot of parity in college football right now, with very few cupcakes and very few elite teams. Where the big programs maintain their advantage is not so much in starter talent as in depth; they'll be able to weather injuries much better and be fresher at the end of the season when everything comes together. But a lot of "cupcakes" and lower-tier teams are either outright beating or at the least hanging in there with a chance to win over the so-called "elite" teams.

[Honolulu_Blue]

For the record, any giddiness or over exuberance about Tate Forcier or Michigan is likely largely due to the fact that yesterday's win over Notre Dame was the first thing I've had to be excited about Michigan Football since Jan 1, 2008. It's been a long 20+ months...

As for rooting for the Big Ten over others, I do. I always do with one exception, Ohio State. I've tried. I've tried really hard to do it. I tried last night, but I couldn't deceive myself. In my heart of hearts, I wanted to see them lose. Not get blown out or anything, but at the end of the day I knew I didn't want to see them win. I feel shame.

As for Pryor, I don't think you can write him off yet. He has struggled, but it's too early yet. He's only a Sophomore. If things do "click" with him either later this year, next year or in his senior year, he could become as great a player as people thought he would coming out of college.

[tarcone]

"Hail to the fornicators, Hail to the masturbators, Hail, Hail to Michigan the cess pool of the league"

[JPhillips]

I give Barkley a lot of credit, but he and Pryor had very similar numbers last night.

Pryor - 11/25 177 1int 1td 7.1ypa
Barkley - 15/32 195 1int 1td 6.1 ypa

I thought Pryor looked better than last year. He still has a tendency to throw off his back foot, but there were some good throws. His blitz recognition needs work, but it would also help if the line wasn't so poor. He's the only weapon the offense has at this point. They can't run and they don't have a big play receiver or TE. For me, Pryor is a pretty good image of the offense in general.

The playcalling in the last drive was what made the difference. Barkley was fine, but he wasn't put in a position where he had to win. I thought his accuracy was shaky most of the game and they obviously weren't looking to have him air it out if they could avoid it. He's going to be great, but I'm certain he's going to throw a couple picks in an upcoming game and cost USC a win.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by tarcone

"Hail to the fornicators, Hail to the masturbators, Hail, Hail to Michigan the cess pool of the league"

I wonder how many different lyrical versions there are...here's the one I grew up with...

Hail to those motherfers, hail to those blue csuckers, hail, hail to Michigan the cess pool of the west.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I give Barkley a lot of credit, but he and Pryor had very similar numbers last night.

Pryor - 11/25 177 1int 1td 7.1ypa
Barkley - 15/32 195 1int 1td 6.1 ypa

I thought Pryor looked better than last year. He still has a tendency to throw off his back foot, but there were some good throws. His blitz recognition needs work, but it would also help if the line wasn't so poor. He's the only weapon the offense has at this point. They can't run and they don't have a big play receiver or TE. For me, Pryor is a pretty good image of the offense in general.

The playcalling in the last drive was what made the difference. Barkley was fine, but he wasn't put in a position where he had to win. I thought his accuracy was shaky most of the game and they obviously weren't looking to have him air it out if they could avoid it. He's going to be great, but I'm certain he's going to throw a couple picks in an upcoming game and cost USC a win.

Yeah...I'm still not sure why the love fest for this Barkley kid. For most of the night he looked lost. They're not the best team in the Pac10...I do expect Cal to knock them off.

Would much rather have the kid from Michigan from what I've seen.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I think Barkley is getting a lot of love because he pulled it out on the road, in a very, very hostile environment and against a very good defense. Forcier's heroics were at home and against an average, at best, defense.

That said, Barkley's supporting cast is much, much stronger than Forcier's. USC has the best offensive line in the country, a top rated running back in McKnight and some very good wide receivers. Michigan's o-line is very average, Grady is very good back, and their wideouts are pretty mediocre (especially given the fact that Hemmingway, the best wideout in the first game, didn't play yesterday).

Both were very impressive yesterday.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

And that in-completion should mean the ball game, great game to Bowling Green. Put up one hell of a fight, and mizzou is lucky to walk out with the win

I was telling everyone BGU was not going to be an easy win. Wow.. we were VERY lucky today. BGU's defense played great.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by rowech

Yeah...I'm still not sure why the love fest for this Barkley kid. For most of the night he looked lost. They're not the best team in the Pac10...I do expect Cal to knock them off.

Would much rather have the kid from Michigan from what I've seen.

The lovefest is for the exact reason you stated. Barkley was lost for most of the game. We all have seen senior QBs who played horribly for most of a game and then on the last drive with a chance to win........played horribly and lost the game. Here was a true freshman QB with his team down 5 against a defense that held him in check for the entire game til that point in front of a hostile crowd. If he did not get it done, then he would be hammered. They say it is not how you start, it is how you finished. The kid finished the game and his team won. He deserves the credit he gets for that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

We all have seen senior QBs who played horribly for most of a game and then on the last drive with a chance to win...

[MrBug708]

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Watched the SC-UGA game since I'm out of town. Really fun game.

Glad to see Gabbert and the offense step up and win the game against Bowling Green. Young guys can easily fold in those situations. Gabbert did a great job of making it happen.

[kingfc22]

Notre Dame out of the top 25. Hahaha

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

That sucks but if OSU gets the ball down their I don't think they march right down the field for the tying TD either.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I give Barkley a lot of credit, but he and Pryor had very similar numbers last night.

Pryor - 11/25 177 1int 1td 7.1ypa
Barkley - 15/32 195 1int 1td 6.1 ypa

2 points here
1) one of those 2 qbs is 19 playing in his 2nd college game
2) there is one stat that is very different though
for last night:
Barkley 1W 0L
Pryor 0W 1L

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Very nice shot. Kinda sad that the NCAA and even the NFL dosen't have the interest to have the technology to see this quickly and easily.

[Chief Rum]

For those interested in the Prince-Brehaut conversation re: UCLA's starting QB future, Chapter One was Prince being named the starter, with Brehaut not redshirting.

Chapter Two starts now: Prince's jaw was broken by that helmet to helmet SEC officials didn't call in the endzone yesterday (the safety).

Prince is out 3-4 weeks, and Brehaut will (presumeably) be under center next week against KState.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

2 points here
1) one of those 2 qbs is 19 playing in his 2nd college game
2) there is one stat that is very different though
for last night:
Barkley 1W 0L
Pryor 0W 1L

And Pryor's 19 and has less than a season of starts. He's got his problems, but writing him off as a failure when most guys his age aren't even playing seems ridiculous to me.

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

2 points here
1) one of those 2 qbs is 19 playing in his 2nd college game
2) there is one stat that is very different though
for last night:
Barkley 1W 0L
Pryor 0W 1L

One is also a pocket passer with NFL talent all around him, one is just an athlete with a bunch of freshman/soph around him.

[DeToxRox]

Pryor is by no means a failure. Right now the failure is Jim Tressel because his fingerprints are all over an offense that does not utilize his best player effectively. Pryor has NO future as an NFL QB but can be a first round pick WR, so let him run some spread and go with it. Pryor would be a stud at Michigan with RichRod's offense but he wouldn't be an NFL QB. Pryor is trying to become an NFL QB in OSU's offense and it's a terrible marriage.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

And Pryor's 19 and has less than a season of starts. He's got his problems, but writing him off as a failure when most guys his age aren't even playing seems ridiculous to me.

And has a season under him including being in a bowl game against an elite team. Either the light is on, or it's not. Pryor hasn't shown anything to prove the light is on. Even if his numbers were similar to Barkley's, Barkley proved he can run a two minute offense. Still waiting on Pryor. FTR, I totally get that Pryor can come around and be a better QB. What I'm wondering about is the "it" factor. You aren't winning a title without it.

RE: Conference strength

I think I figured it out that a conference appears to be strong once they have 3 credible teams. The SEC comes off as being strong since they generally can find 3 teams worth a damn in any year and gain benefit from the 3 being rotated around. Last year the Big 12 was the big hype because they had OU, Texas, and TT. If Michigan, OSU, and PSU are top quality teams, then people will say the Big Ten is back regardless of how the rest of the conference is. Plus, if Michigan is back, it should shift down the lesser teams to better bowl games for themselves so the Big Ten can pull off a better bowl record and people can point to it and defend the Big Ten's strength.

[CU Tiger]

I did not mean to imply that Pryor is a failure.
Not elite, certainly failure not so much.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Matthean

And has a season under him including being in a bowl game against an elite team. Either the light is on, or it's not. Pryor hasn't shown anything to prove the light is on. Even if his numbers were similar to Barkley's, Barkley proved he can run a two minute offense. Still waiting on Pryor. FTR, I totally get that Pryor can come around and be a better QB. What I'm wondering about is the "it" factor. You aren't winning a title without it.

RE: Conference strength

I think I figured it out that a conference appears to be strong once they have 3 credible teams. The SEC comes off as being strong since they generally can find 3 teams worth a damn in any year and gain benefit from the 3 being rotated around. Last year the Big 12 was the big hype because they had OU, Texas, and TT. If Michigan, OSU, and PSU are top quality teams, then people will say the Big Ten is back regardless of how the rest of the conference is. Plus, if Michigan is back, it should shift down the lesser teams to better bowl games for themselves so the Big Ten can pull off a better bowl record and people can point to it and defend the Big Ten's strength.

Pryor is still a game shy of a full season of starts. If you look at his stats he's pretty close to Vince Young's first year. I agree he won't win a championship right now, but that has at least as much to do with no line, no running back and no dangerous receiver. He has nearly 50 starts in front of him, it's way too early to say that he's a bust.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

For those interested in the Prince-Brehaut conversation re: UCLA's starting QB future, Chapter One was Prince being named the starter, with Brehaut not redshirting.

Chapter Two starts now: Prince's jaw was broken by that helmet to helmet SEC officials didn't call in the endzone yesterday (the safety).

Prince is out 3-4 weeks, and Brehaut will (presumeably) be under center next week against KState.

Expect him to perform well, everyone does against K-state...so dont jump to conclusions because he looks like Joe Montana next week

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Alabama might be good but they sure as hell aren't "elite" Musberger as usual takes it on himself to interject his personal wishlist of things into his commentary. I just find it laughable.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The SEC seems the overated conference to me. It's Florida and crap. Alabama doesn't look impressive, Georgia lost, and Tennessee got beaten at home to a mediocre Pac-10 school.

So I take it you didn't watch week 1 when they destroyed Virginia Tech? The score was only 34-24, but they outgained them 500-150.

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Notre Dame out of the top 25. Hahaha

In the coaches poll that actually matters for the BCS.
Oklahoma State 17
Georgia 20
Houston? Unranked (27th) It's a joke.

Originally Posted by JPhillips

He has nearly 50 starts in front of him, it's way too early to say that he's a bust.

Beefing up the nonconference slate?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

For those interested in the Prince-Brehaut conversation re: UCLA's starting QB future, Chapter One was Prince being named the starter, with Brehaut not redshirting.

Chapter Two starts now: Prince's jaw was broken by that helmet to helmet SEC officials didn't call in the endzone yesterday (the safety).

Prince is out 3-4 weeks, and Brehaut will (presumeably) be under center next week against KState.

Think Prince will ever win it back? KSU is a good game to get him the reps!

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Think Prince will ever win it back? KSU is a good game to get him the reps!

Too much concern with Brehaut being a true freshman to assume he'll take the reins and run with it. Hell, Coach Rick ain't even saying RB's gonna be the starter. If Kevin Craft starts, I might start throwing things.

If Brehaut becomes instant star, wonderful, but my expectation is the team will hold best as it can for three weeks and than have Prince back in for the Oregon game.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

So I take it you didn't watch week 1 when they destroyed Virginia Tech? The score was only 34-24, but they outgained them 500-150.

I'll step in and point out that RendeR wouldn't classify 'Bama as elite considering they aren't on par with USC, Florida, etc. They still should be in the top 5 this year. Next year nobody in the country would have out recruited them over a three year period and only USC comes to mind as a possible title contender with 'Bama. 'Bama will be making their elite status run, but people have to remember there was a serious lack of talent at 'Bama before Saban got there. This is a football program that had multiple NCAA fractions over the years and at one point was looking at the death penalty.

[Kodos]

The OSU game had about the perfect outcome for me. OSU looked good and played USC tough (reflecting well on the Big Ten), but still lost. Win-win, baby!

Oh, and Michigan beating Notre Dame was great too. Only two games where I root for Michigan all year are against OSU and ND.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Only two games where I root for Michigan all year are against OSU and ND.

This is really something you need to work on. It'd really help you improve as a person. You should try to start this week. Root for them to beat Eastern Michigan. Just give it a try. See how it feels. I think it'll work for you.

[Passacaglia]

Great game for Michigan, but I'm still worried -- the stink of a 3-9 season does not wash off that easily for me, and it wasn't exactly a great game. I'm still just hoping we make a bowl.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

This is really something you need to work on. It'd really help you improve as a person. You should try to start this week. Root for them to beat Eastern Michigan. Just give it a try. See how it feels. I think it'll work for you.

Sorry, but the addition of Rich Rod will only make it harder not to root against Michigan going forward.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Sorry, but the addition of Rich Rod will only make it harder not to root against Michigan going forward.

Even as a Michigan fan, I'm not drinking the RR Kool-Aid until that team gets a defense.

[Honolulu_Blue]

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Great game for Michigan, but I'm still worried -- the stink of a 3-9 season does not wash off that easily for me, and it wasn't exactly a great game. I'm still just hoping we make a bowl.

Have you seen the rest of the Big Ten? Most of them were struggling to scrape by (or lose to, in Sparty's case) MAC schools this weekend. Michigan could easily go 8-4.

[JonInMiddleGA]

HB almost made me LOL with that graphic.

[flounder]

Who's that guy with Tate Forcier?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Matthean

I'll step in and point out that RendeR wouldn't classify 'Bama as elite considering they aren't on par with USC, Florida, etc. They still should be in the top 5 this year. Next year nobody in the country would have out recruited them over a three year period and only USC comes to mind as a possible title contender with 'Bama. 'Bama will be making their elite status run, but people have to remember there was a serious lack of talent at 'Bama before Saban got there. This is a football program that had multiple NCAA fractions over the years and at one point was looking at the death penalty.

Oh, they were talking about past few years? I thought he was only talking about this year - my bad.

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

One other point that will sound like whining now but I've been saying for years - having non-grass surfaces so close to the playing surface is retarded, and it cost us our best offensive player.

The good news on this is Floyd "only" needed 15 stitches from landing on the track and shouldn't have any long-term damage. I still don't even see why they have the track there - it didn't look wide enough to run meets on.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

The good news on this is Floyd "only" needed 15 stitches from landing on the track and shouldn't have any long-term damage. I still don't even see why they have the track there - it didn't look wide enough to run meets on.

So what's worse - non grass playing surfaces close to the field, or unpadded walls so close to the field?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

The good news on this is Floyd "only" needed 15 stitches from landing on the track and shouldn't have any long-term damage. I still don't even see why they have the track there - it didn't look wide enough to run meets on.

They need that track there so that players can run laps when they mess up at practice. You see, they practice so often and so hard that they need the extra space.

I'm glad to hear he's ok. He was a force out there and likely would have been in a better position to make that last 3rd down catch than the Freshman was.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I call shenanigans. It's bad enough the refs stole 4 points by overturning Allen's touchdown when the evidence wasn't conclusive, and then a borderline holding call to negate a 72-yard pass, but I was ready to say ND had to overcome those. The clock shit at the end just makes me want to blame the officials now.Then wouldn't that be a safety? (ping: Dr. Sak)

First, as we all know now, the refs clearly made the right call on "clock shit", since that Notre Dame guy touched the ball before it went out of bounce.

And now this!



Allen's heel is clearly out of bounds! Once again, the refs made the right call!

No shenanigans, my friend. No shenanigans.

[Poli]

What was the clock issue?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by flounder

Who's that guy with Tate Forcier?

Who is that guy with God?

Jesus Christ

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Poli

What was the clock issue?

Michigan kicked the ball off with 11 seconds left to go in the game. A Notre Dame player touched the ball with his hand and then it went out of the back of the end zone for a touchback. One second ran off the clock.

Jimmy Clausen complained to the refs that the 1 second should be put back on, since Notre Dame didn't field the kick. The refs took a look at, noticed that they guy touched it and, in fact, 2 seconds had run off from when he touched until it went out of bounds instead of just 1 second.

So, instead of 11 seconds left at the end of the game, Notre Dame only had 9 seconds for its final drive.

Some folks initially didn't see the Notre Dame player touch the ball, since he barely touched it, so they felt like Notre Dame got jobbed out of 2 seconds. Those two seconds possibly could have given Notre Dame one more play from around the 50 yard line.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

So what's worse - non grass playing surfaces close to the field, or unpadded walls so close to the field?

They're both bad. Having played on both, the first is more likely to cause injury as you get one or both cleats trying to grip on a hard surface but the second is more likely to cause paralysis or death if anyone goes in headfirst. Football is a dangerous enough game - I don't see why there can't be a 7 or 10-yard barrier around the field where the surface is the same and there aren't 80 people milling around not paying attention to the action (even if we would miss the hilarity from the occasional photographer or cheerleader that gets nailed.)

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

First, as we all know now, the refs clearly made the right call on "clock shit", since that Notre Dame guy touched the ball before it went out of bounce.

And now this!



Allen's heel is clearly out of bounds! Once again, the refs made the right call!

No shenanigans, my friend. No shenanigans.

First of all, my post was made in the heat of the moment when no one knew yet what was going on and suddenly the clock went from 10 to 9 without a play being run. Plus I could argue Tate was down at 2 seconds, but we all know the clock stops with a second late there* and besides it would have given us a hail-mary from midfield, not 1st and goal from the 1. Now I know they got the KO time issue right, but at the time a simple "please reset the game clock" announcement would have cleared up the issue. On the Allen play, they didn't have a zoom shot of his heel - they ran the replay in slow-mo 10 times and in real time had the line judge staring it down from 5 feet away. Like I said, ND still should have overcome it all and I wasn't going to blame the officials until the end game WTF? moments when things were happening without explanation exacerbated it.

* - I was an assistant coach and ran timekeeper once this spring in the playoffs when the guy didn't show. We were down 4 goals going into the 4th and ended up tying it with 3.7 on the clock. I'll be honest - I was probably hitting the stop clock when the ball went out of bounds a little faster than the start clock button, and it very well may have added up to 4 seconds over the quarter. So I know how you can subtly play home timekeeper.