Soccer Thread 2007-08 {R}

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

I agree that two games is fair, but completely out of proportion to Celtic’s fine. I think that Celtic has to receive the harsher punishment. Their slack-ass security is what caused the whole thing, and they get a small fine while the player is ruled out for two matches?

Fair enough point, but again... if you view it in relation to the other incidents, the club's history etc.... ummm...well im still not sure it makes sense then, but at least UEFA's decision seems as arbitrary as all the other one's ive seen them make. They're consistently inconsistent.

[Calis]

Love to see Dida getting a suspension and hope we see more punishments for moves like that.

I'm REALLY shocked by how low Celtic's fine is, and I'm a huge Celtic fan and for the most part think that punishing teams/crowds for solo displays of idiocy is pretty unfair. I think the fact there were no stewards to be seen anywhere even attempting to catch the fan looks very badly on them and the only reason why I think Celtic should be punished. 25k isn't even a slap on the wrist.

I think Dida's actions did cause the leniency to be honest, and I think the fact that Celtic/Rangers fans have surprisingly for how crazy they can be, been VERY good in Europe, and from what I read most places are happy when they come because they're pretty respectful.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Fair enough point, but again... if you view it in relation to the other incidents, the club's history etc.... ummm...well im still not sure it makes sense then, but at least UEFA's decision seems as arbitrary as all the other one's ive seen them make. They're consistently inconsistent.

Well put: the UEFA is consistently inconsistent.

What's next, Cristiano Ronaldo getting a 20-game suspension for life-time achievements?

[MIJB#19]

FWIW, both punishments sound fair, although, I think Dida deserves as much past events credits as Celtic did (I'd almost say Dida's scene actually helped Celtic to get a very mild punishment). I think it's the right thing to punish 'acting', but I have a hard time not thinking they picked the wrong player to make an example out of. I hope Celtic can claim the fine off that pitch invader. The lack of harshness this time around is at least surprising, given how harsh UEFA punishments have been since Platini took over.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by oykib

Almost as bad as Donovan winning the Honda player of the year.

If It's only for national team play, Donovan earned it. If club play is included, then you'd need to look at more players.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Freddy Adu is back in the national team squad for their game against Switzerland. Seven players got their first call-up:

Preston Zimmerman
Sal Zizzo
Robbie Findley
Maurice Edu
Danny Szetela
Steve Purdy
Tally Hall

Six, Zizzo was called up and capped in the game in Sweden.

I don't think I've ever heard of Purdy, Hall, or Zimmerman.

Zimmerman was one of the starting forwards on the previous U-17 cycle (not the one just completed).

Defenders: Carlos Bocanegra (Fulham, England), Steve Cherundolo (Hannover, Germany), Orange Traffic Cone (Aalborg, Denmark), Jay Demerit (Watford, England), Oguchi Onyewu (Standard Liege, Belgium), Heath Pearce (Hansa Rostock, Germany), Steve Purdy (1860 Munich, Germany)

FYP.

[Big Fo]

The soccernet article that I got the seven players from was wrong, blame ESPN.

And I cannot condone the Ronaldo dig a few posts up, he's really cut down on the diving despite teams repeatedly trying unsuccessfully to kick him out of the game.

"Maybe someone does not like me, maybe because I'm too good"

[Calis]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

If It's only for national team play, Donovan earned it. If club play is included, then you'd need to look at more players.

I actually don't have that big of a problem with Donovan winning the award. I do think the award is a pretty absurd one anyway, and I think it gets mis-represented as the best American player award hence some of the hatred.

I think the issue people have is more with Donovan in general being placed as the "representative" of U.S. soccer when he's really pretty far down the list of best American players. I'm just not a big fan of the way he plays, and ever since his display against Liverpool in the Champions League I've crossed over to disliking him. He just plays a weak game, and I like to see someone more akin to Dempsey who's really balls to the wall and fearless about playing. It's not his fault though.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Calis

I'm REALLY shocked by how low Celtic's fine is, and I'm a huge Celtic fan and for the most part think that punishing teams/crowds for solo displays of idiocy is pretty unfair. I think the fact there were no stewards to be seen anywhere even attempting to catch the fan looks very badly on them and the only reason why I think Celtic should be punished. 25k isn't even a slap on the wrist.

I think what was overlooked was the fact that there was near bedlam on the far side of the field, where the team was celebrating the goal. Some advertising was knocked down and the security basically did a good job to avoid a massive pitch invasion over there, im guessing security guards either ran over and abandoned their posts or just got distracted by all the action.

Definitely agreed though, Celtic have to feel they got off very easily. Even Celtic supporters seemed to be banking on at least 1 game behind closed doors.

[daedalus]

i agree with the sentiment that it just about HAS to be either c.ronaldo or kaka. any preference from y'all?

as has been said, henry did not deserve to be there. he played very few games with arsenal and is still in the gelling process with barça.

agreed about thuram as well, he does not warrant a place on this list.

both totti and scholes should have made it. i don't think scholes get nearly the credit he deserves.

[oykib]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

If It's only for national team play, Donovan earned it. If club play is included, then you'd need to look at more players.

Really? More than half his goals came from penalties. And all of his goals during Gold cup came from penalties. He didn't go to Copa America. What exactly did he win the award for? A hat-trick in a friendly? His mediocre club play for a last place team in a so-so league?

I'd say Benny Feilhaber's game winner in the GC final trumps Donovan's up and down play this past year. Howard has been much beter as well.

[oykib]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

If It's only for national team play, Donovan earned it. If club play is included, then you'd need to look at more players.

Really? More than half his goals came from penalties. And all of his goals during Gold cup came from penalties. He didn't go to Copa America. What exactly did he win the award for? A hat-trick in a friendly? His mediocre club play for a last place team in a so-so league?

I'd say Benny Feilhaber's game winner in the GC final trumps Donovan's up and down play this past year. Howard has been much beter as well.

[oykib]

Originally Posted by daedalus

i agree with the sentiment that it just about HAS to be either c.ronaldo or kaka. any preference from y'all?

as has been said, henry did not deserve to be there. he played very few games with arsenal and is still in the gelling process with barça.

agreed about thuram as well, he does not warrant a place on this list.

both totti and scholes should have made it. i don't think scholes get nearly the credit he deserves.

Riquelme or Messi. Messi has been unbelievable. Kaka was great in the Champion's league. But Messi's club form has been the best in Europe, I think. Riquelme will be totally overlooked. But he reportedly was amazing for Boca.

Kaka will probably win it. But I'd give it to Messi. Maybe Riquelme for the upset.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by oykib

Really? More than half his goals came from penalties. And all of his goals during Gold cup came from penalties. He didn't go to Copa America. What exactly did he win the award for? A hat-trick in a friendly? His mediocre club play for a last place team in a so-so league?

I'd say Benny Feilhaber's game winner in the GC final trumps Donovan's up and down play this past year. Howard has been much beter as well.

I'd agree if they gave it to Howard, and I really dislike Donovan, but Feilhaber over him is ridiculous. Other than the GC goal, he scored 1 - in a friendly against China. He didn't even play any match for the USNT until late March, and the time covered by this award started around last September. The only other attacking player we have as good as Donovan is Dempsey, and his NT form was horrible most of the year. As stated, club form doesn't matter, and so while it's sad that Donovan gets it largely off one hat trick and playing most games in decent form (and there's also a healthy dose of voters probably being idiots in there too) there was no good candidate. Hopefully someone/many people will step up this next year (Feilhaber/Dempsey/Adu/Bradley/Beasley/Altidore) and maybe Switzerland sans Donovan will be a good first step.

[MIJB#19]

Reportedly Michael Bradley has stept it up at SC Heerenveen after a bad start to the season, being in great shape over the last couple of weeks. He didn't have any goal or assist in the 9-0 Alves-show, but in almost every other game in September he had either a goal or an assist, which is quite impressive for the role he's playing on the midfield.

[MIJB#19]

Euro2008 followers, I've been looking into tie-breakers and will break down qualification scenarios this week (I'll try to post an update after Saturday's games). I've counted 11 teams whom can clinch a Euro2008 ticket next Saturday (Oct 13) or Wednesday (Oct 17). They are Poland (Gr.A), Scotland (Gr.B), Italy (Gr.B), Greece (Gr.C), Germany (Gr.D), the Czech Republic (Gr.D), Croatia (Gr.E), England (Gr.E), Sweden (Gr.F), Romania (Gr.G) and the Netherlands (Gr.G). Note that Romania and the Netherlands can't both clinch, whereas Scotland and Italy, Croatia and England, and Germany and the Czech Republic can clinch together.

Poland clinch ticket with:
* Poland win vs Kazakhstan (Oct 13) + Portugal loss vs Azerbaijan (Oct 13) + Serbia loss or draw vs Armenia (Oct 13) + Portugal loss vs Kazakhstan (Oct 17) + Serbia loss vs Azerbaijan (OCt 17)
* Poland win vs Kazakhstan (Oct 13) + Portugal loss vs Azerbaijan (Oct 13) + Serbia loss vs Armenia (Oct 13) + Portugal loss vs Kazakhstan (Oct 17) + Serbia loss or draw vs Azerbaijan (OCt 17)

Scotland clinch ticket with:
* Scotland win vs Ukraine (Oct 13) + France loss or draw vs Faroe Isles (Oct 13) + Scotland win vs Georgia (Oct 13) + France loss or draw vs Lithuania (Oct 17)
* Scotland win vs Ukraine (Oct 13) + France loss vs Faroe Isles (Oct 13) + Scotland draw vs Georgia (Oct 13) + France loss vs Lithuania (Oct 17)
* Scotland draw vs Ukraine (Oct 13) + France loss vs Faroe Isles (Oct 13) + Scotland win vs Georgia (Oct 13) + France loss vs Lithuania (Oct 17) + Ukraine loss or draw vs Faroe Isles (Oct 17)
* Scotland win vs Ukraine (Oct 13) + Italy loss vs Georgia (Oct 13) + Scotland win vs Georgia (Oct 13)

Italy clinch ticket with:
* Italy win vs Georgia (Oct 13) + France loss vs Faroe Isles (Oct 13) + France loss vs Lithuania (Oct 17)

Greece clinch ticket with:
* Greece win vs Bosnia-H (Oct 13) + Turkey loss or draw vs Moldova (Oct 13) + Greece win vs Turkey (Oct 17)
* Greece win vs Bosnia-H (Oct 13) + Greece win vs Turkey (Oct 17) + Norway loss or draw vs Bosnia-H (Oct 17)
* Greece win vs Bosnia-H (Oct 13) + Turkey loss or draw vs Moldova (Oct 13) + Greece draw vs Turkey (Oct 17) + Norway loss or draw vs Bosnia-H (Oct 17)
* Greece draw vs Bosnia-H (Oct 13) + Turkey loss or draw vs Moldova (Oct 13) + Greece win vs Turney (Oct 17) + Norway loss or draw vs Bosnia-H (Oct 17)

Germany clinch ticket with:
* Germany win or draw vs Ireland (Oct 13)
* Germany loss vs Ireland (Oct 13) + Germany win vs Czech Republic (Oct 17)
* Germany loss by 1 goal (not 1-0) vs Ireland (Oct 13) + Germany win or draw vs Czech Republic (Oct 17)
* Germany loss vs Ireland (Oct 13) + Ireland loss or tie vs Cyprus (Oct 17)

Czech Republic clinch ticket with:
* Czech Republic win vs Germany (Oct 17)
* Ireland draw or loss vs Germany (Oct 13) + Cyprus draw vs Wales (Oct 13) + Czech Republic draw vs Germany (Oct 17)
* Cyprus draw vs Wales (Oct 13) + Czech Republic draw vs Germany (Oct 17) + Ireland draw or loss vs Cyprus (Oct 17)
* Ireland draw or loss vs Germany (Oct 13) + Cyprus loss vs Wales (Oct 13) + Czech Republic draw vs Germany (Oct 17) + Wales draw or loss vs San Marino (Oct 17)
* Ireland draw or loss vs Germany (Oct 13) + Wales draw or loss vs Cyprus (Oct 13) + Czech Republic draw vs Germany (Oct 17) + Cyprus loss vs Ireland (Oct 17)
* Ireland draw or loss vs Germany (Oct 13) + Czech Republic draw vs Germany (Oct 17) + Cyprus loss vs Ireland (Oct 17) + Wales loss or draw vs San Marino (Oct 17)
* Cyprus loss vs Wales (Oct 13) + Czech Republic draw vs Germany (Oct 17) + Wales draw or loss vs San Marino (Oct 17) + Ireland draw or loss vs Cyprus (Oct 17)
* Czech Republic draw vs Germany (Oct 17) + Cyprus draw vs Ireland (Oct 17) + Wales draw or loss vs San Marino (Oct 17)
* Wales draw or loss vs Cyprus (Oct 13) + Czech Republic draw vs Germany (Oct 17) + Cyprus draw vs Ireland (Oct 17)
* Ireland loss vs Germany (Oct 13) + Wales loss or draw vs Cyprus (Oct 13) + Cyprus loss vs Ireland (Oct 17)
* Ireland loss vs Germany (Oct 13) + Wales draw vs Cyprus (Oct 13) + Cyprus loss or draw vs Ireland (Oct 17)
* Ireland loss or draw vs Germany (Oct 13) + Wales loss vs Cyprus (Oct 13) + Cyprus loss vs Ireland (Oct 17)
* Ireland loss vs Germany (Oct 13) + Cyprus loss vs Wales (Oct 13) + Wales loss or draw vs San Marino (Oct 17)
* Ireland draw vs Germany (Oct 13) + Cyprus loss vs Wales (Oct 13) + Wales loss or draw vs San Marino (Oct 17) + Ireland loss or draw vs Cyprus (Oct 17)
* Cyprus loss vs Wales (Oct 13) + Wales loss or draw vs San Marino (Oct 17) + Ireland loss vs Cyprus (Oct 17)

Croatia clinch ticket with:
* Croatia win vs Israel (Oct 13) + England loss or draw vs Estonia (Oct 13)
* Croatia win vs Israel (Oct 13) + Russia loss or draw vs England (Oct 17)

England clinch ticket with:
* England win vs Estonia (Oct 13) + England win or draw vs Russia (Oct 17)
* England draw vs Estonia (Oct 13) + England win vs Russia (Oct 17)

Sweden clinch ticket with:
* Sweden win vs Liechtenstein (Oct 13) + Denmark loss or draw vs Spain (Oct 13) + Sweden win vs North Ireland (Oct 17)
* Sweden win vs Liechtenstein (Oct 13)+ Sweden win vs North Ireland (Oct 17) + Denmark loss or draw vs Latvia (Oct 17)
* Sweden draw vs Liechtenstein (Oct 13) + Denmark loss vs Spain (Oct 13) + Sweden win vs North Ireland (Oct 17)
* Sweden draw vs Liechtenstein (Oct 13) + Denmark draw vs Spain (Oct 13) + Sweden win vs North Ireland (Oct 17) + Denmark loss or draw vs Latvia (Oct 17)
* Sweden draw vs Liechtenstein (Oct 13) + Sweden win vs North Ireland (Oct 17) + Denmark loss vs Latvia (Oct 17)
* Sweden win vs Liechtenstein (Oct 13) + Denmark win vs Spain (Oct 13) + Sweden draw vs North Ireland (Oct 17) + Denmark loss vs Latvia (Oct 17)

Romania clinch ticket with:
* Romania win vs Netherlands (Oct 13) + Romania win vs Luxembourg (Oct 17) + Bulgaria loss or draw vs Albania (Oct 17)
* Romania win by 2 goals vs Netherlands (Oct 13) + Romania win vs Luxembourg (Oct 17) + Netherlands loss vs Slovenia (Oct 17)

Netherlands clinch ticket with:
* Netherlands win vs Romania (Oct 13) + Netherlands win vs Slovenia (Oct 17)
* Netherlands win vs Romania (Oct 13) + Netherlands draw vs Slovenia (Oct 17) + Bulgaria loss vs Albania (Oct 17)
* Netherlands win vs Romania (Oct 13) + Netherlands draw vs Slovenia (Oct 17) + Romania loss or draw vs Luxembourg (Oct 17)
* Netherlands win vs Romania (Oct 13) + Netherlands loss vs Slovenia (Oct 17) + Romania loss vs Luxembourg (Oct 17) + Bulgaria loss vs Albania (Oct 17)

[cthomer5000]

1. Messi would definitely by my #1 pick if i was starting a club and magically granted one player.

2. If anyone in this thread cares, DC United, New England Revolution, Chivas USA, and Houston Dynamo have clinched the 4 spots in the "North American SuperLiga" (4 MLS teams, 4 Mexican teams) comptetion for next year. It was an amazingly entertaining tournament this year if you didn't catch it.

3. I hate international weekends.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

1. Messi would definitely by my #1 pick if i was starting a club and magically granted one player.

2. If anyone in this thread cares, DC United, New England Revolution, Chivas USA, and Houston Dynamo have clinched the 4 spots in the "North American SuperLiga" (4 MLS teams, 4 Mexican teams) comptetion for next year. It was an amazingly entertaining tournament this year if you didn't catch it.

3. I hate international weekends.

There's a sneaky suspicion that they'll enlarge it to 6-6 or even 8-8 in an attempt to get Beckham and the Galaxy in, or even worse yet, find a way to get the Galaxy in replacing another team (and since the other teams have a really significant Hispanic base, the easy target would be the Revs)

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

There's a sneaky suspicion that they'll enlarge it to 6-6 or even 8-8 in an attempt to get Beckham and the Galaxy in, or even worse yet, find a way to get the Galaxy in replacing another team (and since the other teams have a really significant Hispanic base, the easy target would be the Revs)

well it would make economic sense, and im sure the Revs wouldnt mind droping out for a little $$, or even free just to promote the league

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

There's a sneaky suspicion that they'll enlarge it to 6-6 or even 8-8 in an attempt to get Beckham and the Galaxy in, or even worse yet, find a way to get the Galaxy in replacing another team (and since the other teams have a really significant Hispanic base, the easy target would be the Revs)

The quickest way to kill the competition is to expand it, IMHO. Lets at least get a few years under our belt before we consider any changes.

I dont want a situation where basically every playoff team also gets into another compeition. There is a lot to be said for the exclusivity. I want to know teams are fighting for that #4 spot in future years, etc.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Calis

I think the issue people have is more with Donovan in general being placed as the "representative" of U.S. soccer when he's really pretty far down the list of best American players.

If by "pretty far down the list" you mean "in the top three", then I agree with you.

The problem a lot of people have with Donovan as the "representative" of U.S. soccer is that he didn't satisfy their inferiority complex by proving to the world that he could star in Europe (and by extension, that the U.S. was a bona fide soccer nation that could produce "top" players). To a lesser extent, many of them consistently underrate his long-term contributions to the team (perhaps partly because they think he should do even more than he does).

I don't think he's someone that can carry the team, because of his specific skillset, but he's still highly skilled and one of the top three players on the team.

Originally Posted by oykib

Really? More than half his goals came from penalties. And all of his goals during Gold cup came from penalties. He didn't go to Copa America. What exactly did he win the award for? A hat-trick in a friendly? His mediocre club play for a last place team in a so-so league?

I'd say Benny Feilhaber's game winner in the GC final trumps Donovan's up and down play this past year. Howard has been much beter as well.

Howard's at least debatable. Feilhaber didn't play enough games during the Gold Cup, and didn't contribute consistently enough when he was playing. The Copa America is a complete writeoff. Mediocre club play is irrelevant since I was talking only about the viewpoint of play for the U.S.

[Calis]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

If by "pretty far down the list" you mean "in the top three", then I agree with you.

The problem a lot of people have with Donovan as the "representative" of U.S. soccer is that he didn't satisfy their inferiority complex by proving to the world that he could star in Europe (and by extension, that the U.S. was a bona fide soccer nation that could produce "top" players). To a lesser extent, many of them consistently underrate his long-term contributions to the team (perhaps partly because they think he should do even more than he does).

I'll give you top 5 arguably. I'd place Howard, McBride, and Dempsey all 3 above him at least, but I could see him being ranked at four possibly.

As far as not starring in Europe, he didn't just not star, he was awful. When your poster boy for American soccer goes to Europe and just makes a fool out of himself there's going to be a backlash.

Maybe he didn't like it over there, the weather or whatever his excuses were, but it just looked pathetic.

But yeah as far as the national team, he's contributed and is definitely one of the top 3 contributors to the team.

[bulletsponge]

Maybe he didn't like it over there, the weather or whatever his excuses were, but it just looked pathetic.

TBF i wouldnt like living in Germany either. btw i heard his wife is a tv star, who is she? maybe hes playing in LA because of her and wants to keep her happy

[Calis]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

TBF i wouldnt like living in Germany either. btw i heard his wife is a tv star, who is she? maybe hes playing in LA because of her and wants to keep her happy

Oh I don't blame him for not liking it. Not the most pleasant of places to play either in that area, but that's still no excuse to tank it. It wasn't even that he was just terrible half the time, he appeared to be actively trying to stay out of the game and away from the ball. Yeah, he was definitely unhappy and he was in a situation where he had tons of pressure placed upon him and just wasn't ready to handle it.

Anyhow, that's history. I'm just bitter also because I bought into all the hype surrounding him in the beginning and I really thought the kid would be a superstar. He hasn't been a dud by any means, but you just get the feeling watching him that his game has already peaked.

He's still young though so who knows.

[oykib]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

If by "pretty far down the list" you mean "in the top three", then I agree with you.

The problem a lot of people have with Donovan as the "representative" of U.S. soccer is that he didn't satisfy their inferiority complex by proving to the world that he could star in Europe (and by extension, that the U.S. was a bona fide soccer nation that could produce "top" players). To a lesser extent, many of them consistently underrate his long-term contributions to the team (perhaps partly because they think he should do even more than he does).

Totally disagree. Dodnovan is the focal point of the team. But how has the team performed with him in that position? It's been as up and down and he is.

Is he one of the three most talented U.S players? Undoubtedly. Has he performed as well as Howard, say, or Bocanegra (who is also a bit up and down)? I don't think scoring penalties and publically saying you won't go to major international tournaments in order to lead your team out of the playoffs is National best material.

As to

Feilhaber didn't play enough games during the Gold Cup, and didn't contribute consistently enough when he was playing.

It took him some time to work himself into the team. But he had by far the biggest goal for the MNT this season. And was playing better than Donovan by the end of the tournament.

[MIJB#19]

Euro2008 qualifying scenarios for next Wednesday.

Scotland clinch ticket with:
* Scotland win vs Georgia (Oct 17) + France loss or draw vs Lithuania (Oct 17)
* Scotland draw vs Georgia (Oct 17) + France loss vs Lithuania (Oct 17)

Greece clinch ticket with:
* Greece win vs Turkey (Oct 17)
* Greece draw vs Turkey (Oct 17) + Norway loss or draw vs Bosnia-H (Oct 17)

Germany clinched ticket

Czech Republic clinch ticket with:
* Czech Republic win vs Germany (Oct 17)
* Czech Republic draw vs Germany (Oct 17) + Cyprus loss or draw vs Ireland (Oct 17)

Croatia clinch ticket with:
* Russia loss or draw vs England (Oct 17)

England clinch ticket with:
* England win vs Russia (Oct 17)

Sweden clinch ticket with:
* Sweden win vs North Ireland (Oct 17)

Romania clinch ticket with:
* Romania win vs Luxembourg (Oct 17) + Bulgaria loss or draw vs Albania (Oct 17)

[cthomer5000]

Supporters' Shield clinched

D.C. United has clinched the 2007 Supporters' Shield following a Chivas USA loss to Colorado Sunday afternoon. United becomes the first team in League history to win the Shield in back-to-back years. The honor comes with a berth in next year's CONCACAF Champions' Cup.



Congrats to DC... they continue to be the undisputed top dog in MLS.

[BishopMVP]

Wow... turned on Portsmouth-Reading replay on FSN. 6-3 92nd minute.... both teams added another to make it a 7-4 final. Even for EPL teams that's ridiculous.

[cthomer5000]

Scotland result... oh dear

England result.... oh s***


The England game was a pretty unbelievable turn of events in a 4 minute span. Barring a miracle, England are going to miss the European championships.... Steve McLaren may need to flee the country.

[MJ4H]

Yeah those two results are pretty serious trouble for both teams. Good to see the US win in Europe finally, though.

[daedalus]

wasn't scotland one of the teams whose fate was in their own hands? if they had not had this fuck up, they could have eliminated italy, right?

what happens now?

[AlexB]

Scotland's fate still in their own hands - just more difficult. If they beat Italy, they're through.

England are not in control of their own destiny unfortunately - we have to rely on Israel getting something from the match against Russia. It is in Israel through, so there's a chance - all these doom merchants seem to be forgetting we didn't beat them in Tel Aviv, and Croatia only won 1-0.

And all said and done, if there's three teams fighting to go through, two of them beat the 4th ranked team away and we draw, it's our own fault we don't qualify. It wasn't last night, or even the Croatia game, it was 0-0 at home to Macedonia, and to a lesser extent the draw in Tel Aviv, that will have cost us.

[Ajaxab]

I feel bad for the Scots if they don't make it through. Beating France twice is no small accomplishment, never mind finding themselves near the top of arguably the toughest group. I would love to see the Tartan Army replace the Italians at the tournament.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

Scotland's fate still in their own hands - just more difficult. If they beat Italy, they're through.

Exactly. Win = in, lose = out, draw = pray for a Faroe Islands miracle draw in Italy or a Ukraine win over France. But the win=in part is golden compared to the situation England, Denmark and Serbia are in (to name some even bigger countries).

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

England are not in control of their own destiny unfortunately - we have to rely on Israel getting something from the match against Russia. It is in Israel through, so there's a chance - all these doom merchants seem to be forgetting we didn't beat them in Tel Aviv, and Croatia only won 1-0.

And all said and done, if there's three teams fighting to go through, two of them beat the 4th ranked team away and we draw, it's our own fault we don't qualify. It wasn't last night, or even the Croatia game, it was 0-0 at home to Macedonia, and to a lesser extent the draw in Tel Aviv, that will have cost us.

What could make it worse for England, is Israel now being out of the race, which they weren't when they played England and Croatia. Israel was in the race for most of the time (just like they were in most qualifying campaigns over the last 10 years), they're a contender that has missed their goal, again. The only thing left for them is World Cup qualifying seedings and a win for Israel could boost them into a 2nd seed position.

On the other hand, if Croatia wins or even takes a draw out of Macedonia, their ticket is secure and England will be playing a team that has nothing to play for anymore as well (Euro'08 ticket in the pocket and pretty much a secured WC qualifiers top seed position). Granted, England needs Russia to make a mistake in Israel or Andorra, but playing at home against a team that partied all weekend should smoothen their path a bit. Edit: It appears that Croatia could take the last 1st seed at Euro'08 if they win their last two games (only remaining competition being the Netherlands and maybe Sweden), however given that Switzerland, Austria and Greece will be the other top seeds, it may be a good idea to miss that top seed status and lose in England.



For those interested, November 17th are the next round of games and a bunch of teams can clinch a ticket that day. (Below are all pure Nov 17th scenarios, Nov 21st games are not included here). All in all, all but one ticket can be decided that day, with the England-Russia race potentially being the only one still standing.

Poland clinch ticket with:
* Poland win vs Belgium
* Poland draw vs Belgium + Serbia draw or loss vs Kazakhstan + Finland draw or loss vs Azerbaijan
* Serbia loss vs Kazakhstan + Finland loss vs Azerbaijan

Portugal clinch ticket with:
* Portugal win vs Armenia + Serbia draw or loss vs Kazakhstan + Finland draw or loss vs Azerbaijan
* Portugal draw vs Armenia + Serbia loss vs Kazakhstan + Finland loss vs Azerbaijan

[b]Scotland[b] clinch ticket with:
* Scotland win vs Italy

France clinch ticket with:
* Italy win vs Scotland

Italy clinch ticket with:
* Italy win vs Scotland

Greece clinched ticket

Norway clinch ticket with:
* Norway win vs Turkey

Czech Republic clinched ticket

Germany clinched ticket

Croatia clinch ticket with:
* Croatia win or draw vs Macedonia
* Russia loss or draw vs Israel

Sweden clinch ticket with:
* Sweden win or draw vs Spain
* Denmark win or draw vs Northern Ireland

Spain clinch ticket with:
* Spain win vs Sweden
* Spain draw vs Sweden + Denmark win or draw vs Northern Ireland
* Northern Ireland-Denmark draw

Romania clinched ticket

Netherlands clinch ticket with:
* Netherlands win vs Luxembourg
* Bulgaria loss or draw vs Romania

[Critch]

"Something has been broken at Chelsea,we now know who caused Jose Mourinho's departure and I will try my hardest to leave Chelsea in the summer" - Didier Drogba.

Sounds like Chelsea are in for some fun again.

[Big Fo]

Rooney, Neville, Carrick, Brown, Ferdinand, and Hargreaves should all be getting some extra rest this summer, fantastic news.

[Big Fo]

And people doubted whether or not Rooney and Tevez could form an effective strike partnership. They were both great today, Tevez's first goal from the Rooney backheel was fucking beautiful, almost as good as Nani's screamer. Seven straight wins in the league plus three in Europe, good to see normal service has resumed after that awful start to the season.

Good stuff coming tomorrow, Milan - Roma at 10am ET and Liverpool - Arsenal at noon ET (both Fox Soccer Channel). As a United fan it's my sworn duty to root against Liverpool at all times but with Arsenal's great form at the moment I would probably prefer a draw.

[3ric]

WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS



IFK Goteborg wins the championship for the 18th time, our first since 1996

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by 3ric

IFK Goteborg wins the championship for the 18th time, our first since 1996

Wow, I didn't realize that last championship had been that long ago, 3ric. Congrats!

[3ric]

...and to think it's been only five years since IFK almost was relegated from the Premier Division.

[MIJB#19]

And here I kept thinking IFK was like Sweden's Real Madrid or AjaxPSV. Stupid parity sensitive leagues...

[Big Fo]

Jaap Stam has retired at age 35 due to injury and losing his desire to play. He was one of my favorite players when he was at Man Utd and I was really pissed when Ferguson sold him to Lazio. In my short time watching the game (just over a decade or so) he was one of the best defenders I've had the chance to see, such a dominant player.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Wow, I didn't realize that last championship had been that long ago, 3ric. Congrats!

Sweet! Congrats on that.

Quick question, is the league expanding the # of teams in the top division next year? A brief look makes it look like 1 team is going down but 3 are coming up? Is that right or am I getting some bad info?

[3ric]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Sweet! Congrats on that.

Quick question, is the league expanding the # of teams in the top division next year? A brief look makes it look like 1 team is going down but 3 are coming up? Is that right or am I getting some bad info?

Absolutely correct - they are expanding from 14 teams to 16 next year.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by 3ric

Absolutely correct - they are expanding from 14 teams to 16 next year.

So it must be a great year to be team #13.

[Young Drachma]

EPL Fan Zone is hilarious. We need an American version of this. Maybe the writers strike will yield us something like this for playoff baseball or Monday Night Football. Can't be any worse than Tony K's babbles or whatever Tim McCarver has to say.

[Big Fo]

Yeah, I would love to see that done over here. Imagine college football rivalry games done Fan Zone style, it would be great.

[MJ4H]

Big win by Israel 2-1 over Russia putting England back in control of their qualification destiny.

[Big Fo]

USA won 1-0 at South Africa this morning, it was a pretty even game but Steve Cherundolo scored a nice goal in the first half. Freddy Adu looked pretty good, Howard/Guzan only had to make a few saves, and Josy Altidore made his debut when he came on as a sub in the second half.

[bhlloy]

Damn, England have had some lucky breaks go their way in qualifications recently (actually since USA 94). It's not a given that they can get a draw against Croatia, but still...