09-06-2007, 10:38 AM | #501 |
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mass.
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There is a difference between lying as a villager in a way that keeps the wolves guessing, and lying as a villager in a way that likely will either get you lynched or out your own seer unecessarily.
Lying about having a certain item, or performing various roles, or even lying about your role is fine within some regards. I remember a game that someone was a seer and lied about their role making it sound much less powerful in an attempt to try to get information out to people without making them a huge target for the wolves.. Lying to say you are the seer when your neck is on the line and you're about to go down seems like none of those things to me. I don't have my mind made up about you yet Barkeep.. I'm a bit puzzled about your angle here though, I have to be honest. I guess we will see how things go, but if you are good, you are definitly seeing things from an extremely different viewpoint than I am as just a vanilla villager. |
09-06-2007, 10:38 AM | #502 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
i don't think people think that you're a wolf. if people want to start a 2nd list of say...who i should duke the vote onto, i'd be happy to do that and go with the village's majority opinion there. |
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09-06-2007, 10:41 AM | #503 |
Head Cheerleader
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Caught somewhere between Raising Hell and Amazing Grace...
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I'm sticking with my Neon vote...and if he starts howling when we lynch him, then Barkeep is next on my list of suspects.
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09-06-2007, 10:45 AM | #504 |
College Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Buffalo, NY
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I'm not sure what to think of Barkeep. I think at the very least he's someone to keep an eye on.
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09-06-2007, 10:50 AM | #505 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2002
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Quote:
See, I don't necessarily agree with this.. I think if Neon ends up a wolf, I probably will less likely suspect Barkeep. I doubt on day 2 a wolf would come out in strong support of another wolf that there is a mountain of evidence for. In that situation you'd more likely just write them off and move on. |
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09-06-2007, 10:54 AM | #506 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2003
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Quote:
Agreed.
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We have always been at war with Eastasia. |
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09-06-2007, 11:04 AM | #507 | |
Head Cheerleader
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Caught somewhere between Raising Hell and Amazing Grace...
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Quote:
I disagree...why else would Barkeep be so quick to defend Neon? If Neon turns out to be a wolf, I really don't see that there is any other reason other than Barkeep also being a wolf. |
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09-06-2007, 11:32 AM | #508 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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Quote:
Well, don't worry. It looks like I drew some heat for that vote, for whatever reason. You didn't tell me you were such a respected villager when we were PMing last game -- we could have used that! Anyway, I'm only caught up as far as the post I'm replying to, and at this point, it's looking like NC will get my vote -- I'd rather save the duke for later -- why waste him on a day we're all in agreement? |
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09-06-2007, 11:36 AM | #509 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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Quote:
How would the wolves know that Neon was going to be lynched today? Remember we're on a 24-hour deadline. Unless the wolves could submit a night action somehow after deadline? I seem to recall Lathum making a post calling for night actions ASAP, after deadline. |
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09-06-2007, 11:44 AM | #510 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Quote:
Because he claimed to be the seer. If they targeted him the first day and he was protected, I think he would be a goner by day 2 |
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09-06-2007, 11:45 AM | #511 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New Mexico
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I don't understand the argument for voting for DT. That seems more wolfish than defending Neon.
If DT is not the duke, he'll end up lynched sooner or later. |
09-06-2007, 11:48 AM | #512 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
Except...didn't the wolves think he actually WAS the seer at that point? This is all assuming he's not a wolf, right? What made him a goner by Day 2 is not that he didn't die -- it's that the seer was lynched Day 1...right? I might not be following this perfectly, since I am hungry, but I'll check in again after lunch. |
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09-06-2007, 11:52 AM | #513 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Whittier
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Quote:
True, but I would imagine the real seer would have scanned NC anyways and if he showed up a normal villager, would have left him alone. If he was shown to be someone other then a villager, he probably would have been deadset on lynching NC. We won't really know either way since NC lied and we outed the real seer |
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09-06-2007, 11:52 AM | #514 | |
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Quote:
It's way too early for a wolf to come out and publicly defend another wolf. They put two of them at risk instead of possibly just the one with Neon. No reason if Barkeep is a wolf to come out and defend, so I lean towards BK being good right now.
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09-06-2007, 11:54 AM | #515 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Apr 2001
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This is making me waver on my initial vote. DT said this first before he actually came out and said it. I think that holding off on DT is probably the best avenue provided NC isn't the bodyguard (which I think is a fairly safe bet as this moment.) unvote - DaddyTorgo |
09-06-2007, 11:54 AM | #516 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Whittier
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Dola, my above post is NC calling out DT as the duke role
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09-06-2007, 11:57 AM | #517 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Whittier
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Lathum - Question
If the bartender gets one wolf drunk, can they still kill a person at night? Or does another wolf just get to kill a person that night? |
09-06-2007, 12:09 PM | #518 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Not too far away
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It seems like a worthless ability if the wolves could just change who was doing the killing. Rather not a worthless ability, strictly an anti-villager ability, which I don't think to be the case as it's a villager role.
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09-06-2007, 12:11 PM | #519 |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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09-06-2007, 12:18 PM | #520 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Quote:
It's just rather confusing. I havent played in so long but do the wolves pick someone to kill another person? Or is random on who Lathum picks and if the bartender gets lucky, does it stop the kill? Obviously Lathum can't say, so who knows really |
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09-06-2007, 12:18 PM | #521 |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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updated vote count
Neon_Chaos-8- DaddyTorgo (370), PurdeuBrad (373), Telle (367), St.Cronin (402), ChiefRum (455), HoopsGuy (461), OlieGirl (481), ArlingtonColt (491) DaddyTorgo-3- Crim (384), EagleFan (395), Path12 (425) |
09-06-2007, 12:20 PM | #522 |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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I will be out until close to the deadline.
If someone can post a vote count near the deadline that would be very helpfull in getting the results out quicker. |
09-06-2007, 12:30 PM | #523 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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Quote:
I'm with Alan. If I'm the real seer, I don't scan NC. I assume he's a wolf trying to save himself, and let things run their course, while working on trying to find the next wolf. VOTE NEON_CHAOS |
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09-06-2007, 12:34 PM | #524 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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might as well write it up now lathum.
neon's a goner |
09-06-2007, 12:43 PM | #525 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Black Hole
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wow. a lot of posts. I've got some reading to do.
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09-06-2007, 12:43 PM | #526 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2002
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Quote:
This is my biggest problem I'm having right now.. and I guess will be the 25 million dollar question for me at some point... I just have a hard time seeing a good reason as a good guy or bad guy to make the play Barkeep is making. I'm really struggling to see his point in his arguement (which he started making before we knew neon was bad, before we found out RPI was the seer, etc).. Barkeep is speaking in absolutes, saying there is 0% chance that neon is bad, and speaks as if thats a forgone conclusion.. He puts himself on the line defending someone who it feels almost aparently is bad at this point... It almost makes me wonder if he is using the waaaaay out in front of your face wolf strat where you do the most obvious thing ever to make people think its too obvious for a wolf to do. I guess we'll see what happens with Neon.. if Neon ends up a wolf as I figure, Im not going to push barkeep much, but I definitly will be puzzled until the game is over to understand it. |
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09-06-2007, 12:45 PM | #527 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Quote:
Unless Barkeep is the goth and he's hoping that NC is a wolf? |
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09-06-2007, 12:53 PM | #528 |
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mass.
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The Goth knows who the wolves are, so the same thing would apply as if Barkeep was a wolf.. Why do you set yourself up defending a wolf who is pretty much a lock to be lynched and then expose yourself to be the next possible lynch candidate? |
09-06-2007, 12:56 PM | #529 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Not too far away
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Alan I'm speaking more strongly than I feel because I am in such a minority. It is possible that Neon is a wolf, I just think that it's MORE possible that the story he's stated is the truth.
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09-06-2007, 12:57 PM | #530 |
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Join Date: Jan 2001
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I will also bring up that it was cronin who made the statement about it being a ballsy play for a villager to do. I had not really considered the villager lie angle until he suggested it. I'm not sure if that's anything, but it's out there.
I have to admit I'm always a little worried when Alan gets to frame the discussion since it fits in so well with his wolf abilities. |
09-06-2007, 12:59 PM | #531 | |
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Quote:
Good point. Nevermind my previous statement..lol |
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09-06-2007, 01:00 PM | #532 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2002
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I am curious to you suddenly trying to spin this around at me when I've pretty much been saying that I think Neon is bad and that likely means you are good... Just something else to keep in mind I suppose. |
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09-06-2007, 01:01 PM | #533 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New Mexico
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I am completely neutral on Barkeep defending Neon, because for one thing I am not sure whether Neon is a wolf or not. Either way you can construct plausible analysis that shows Barkeep is or is not a wolf. To me there's no particular logic there, just instinct, and I'm not very good at reading Barkeep.
What I find more worrisome is his insistence that we vote DaddyTorgo. The wolves would WANT DT to use his duke power on Neon, since Neon is a goner regardless. The wolves want DT to burn his ability. That argument I find wolfish. |
09-06-2007, 01:02 PM | #534 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Black Hole
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To me skimming through this, it's a pretty easy vote on Neon today.
VOTE NEON_CHAOS I'm pretty sure Crim is a good guy, and he brought up a lot of "mistakes" Neon made. |
09-06-2007, 01:10 PM | #535 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Black Hole
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FWIW, if I were Neon and he is in fact a simple villegar, I might try to use the seer gambit as well. It's not a bad idea in that you make yourself a target for the wolves and they try to attack you instead of the real seer.
As far as the non-voting or tie on the first day goes, I think that that is one of the worst things a villeger can do. The only power we have is the lynch. If we give that up, then that gives the wolves that much more leverage in the game. |
09-06-2007, 01:22 PM | #536 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New Mexico
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These are the votes for DT right now:
Crim EagleFan path12 Barkeep has been the most vocal about pushing for this vote, but hasn't actually cast a vote yet. |
09-06-2007, 01:23 PM | #537 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New Mexico
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Dola,
MrBug voted and unvoted. |
09-06-2007, 01:29 PM | #538 | |
Head Cheerleader
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Caught somewhere between Raising Hell and Amazing Grace...
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Quote:
I could see this as a good defense if he hadn't done it on night 1...if we'd played a few days and he had figured out who the seer was, then yes...but with no information it just seems like such a stupid thing to do... |
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09-06-2007, 01:37 PM | #539 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Black Hole
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I'm out for the rest of work today. I'll be back in a little bit. I didn't catch that Crim voted for DT. That maybe makes me rethink voting for Neon.
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09-06-2007, 02:13 PM | #540 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Quote:
I have hardly insisted and if you'll notice haven't even cast my own vote. It was DT who suggested we vote for him. |
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09-06-2007, 02:37 PM | #541 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
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SO What you're suggesting BK is that Neon was simply a naive new player (relatively) who paniced and screwed up bigtime thinking he was creating some sort of safety net for the real seer?
Doesn't that feel just a little far fetched after seeing how well NC has played in the last few games? I don't think he's naive or even technically new to this, his last couple games showed him to be quite shrewed in his game play. This day 1 farce of his is too much of a screwed up ploy to BE a simple screwed up ploy. just thinking out loud. |
09-06-2007, 02:38 PM | #542 |
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Join Date: Oct 2002
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true. it was me. but i guess i'm backing off that position. i don't care that a couple people may end up leaving their vote on me, but it's clear that popular opinion has turned to the "lynch neon outright and save dt's ability" camp.
i'd appreciate it if someone could pass me one of them 25% doo-dads btw. might help augment the BG's ability to protect me. |
09-06-2007, 02:48 PM | #543 |
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dola
if indeed the BG should choose to protect me tonight |
09-06-2007, 03:02 PM | #544 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2001
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I think Neon was an experienced player attempting to make a bold play, one that would impress others, in an attempt to save himself.
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09-06-2007, 03:11 PM | #545 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Buffalo, NY
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Quote:
And people who make bold plays know full well that if they're not pulled off perfectly that the likely consequence will be that they will get lynched. I see no reason to give Neon_Chaos the benefit of the doubt and feel that the safe bet is to lynch him. |
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09-06-2007, 03:11 PM | #546 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
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It was impressive alright, just not in a good way.
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09-06-2007, 03:12 PM | #547 | |
Coordinator
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Location: Buffalo, NY
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Quote:
QFT |
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09-06-2007, 03:15 PM | #548 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New Mexico
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Quote:
Yeah, I really can't decide how I feel about your play today. I go back and forth. |
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09-06-2007, 03:48 PM | #549 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New Mexico
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Has it occured to anybody else that what happened last night may have been the bartender blocking the wolf, and not the bodyguard?
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09-06-2007, 03:49 PM | #550 |
General Manager
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I'm likely out until morning.
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