Official 2007-2008 College Basketball Thread

[Kodos]

I'm not a fan of Sampson. I wish we had a different coach who could follow the rules.

That being said, cowboy up Illini fans. Stuff happens.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

But I'm not inclined to be sympathetic to poor Eric Gordon.

That's because you're from Illinois. Gordon did nothing wrong. A verbal commitment is non-binding and they know that. Weber can be pissed all he wants, but he should be man enough to shake someone's hand after a ballgame. It's a poor example to set as a head coach and mentor of college-age kids.

[Johnny93g]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Only a deluded Hoosiers fan could watch what happened with the Eric Gordon saga, observe the continued violations by Sampson, and conclude that Weber is the one that is classless. I'm astonished that the same fan base that used to crow about their integrity with Bob Knight as coach can make statements like this.

Bruce Weber is Classless.

An article on yesterday's game from the CHICAGO Sun-times

February 8, 2008
BY JAY MARIOTTI Sun-Times Columnist
CHAMPAIGN -- It wasn't cool. It wasn't a brassy display of school spirit. It wasn't a proud act of jock manhood. No, what Chester Frazier did Thursday night was a low-class, not-thinking cheap shot that shames Bruce Weber, the Illinois basketball program and, you know, whatever perceptions a national TV audience may have had about common decency in the heartland.

As if there weren't enough crazed fans in Assembly Hall, as if there weren't enough uniformed police and security guards overseeing a tense scene, the Illini point guard inflamed a hyper-emotional recruiting grudge match with an unnecessary pre-game message. When it came time to introduce Eric Gordon -- the biggest pariah in central Illinois since Bob Knight, the future NBA star who blew off an oral commitment to Illinois to sign with Indiana -- Frazier raced out to center court with more than the usual handshake.

» Click to enlarge image

Indiana's Eric Gordon
(AP file)

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Hoosiers pull it out in double overtime He lowered his shoulder and popped Gordon in the chest like a linebacker pile-driving a receiver, knocking him backward as a raucous crowd roared. Given the sensitivity of the scene, this was about as wise as throwing a pound of ground chuck to a pack of pit bulls. Gordon looked at the Indiana bench in disbelief. His father, Eric Sr., sat nearby and wondered what the rest of the night would hold, thankful he'd hired a security guard for his son. Throughout a wild, embarrassing evening that included an ESPN report of Illini fans throwing beads into a section where Gordon's family was sitting -- and security men preventing at least one Indiana fan from climbing into the stands in retaliation -- you realized Frazier had exacerbated the frenzy.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

``The chest bump was out of line,'' analyst Jay Bilas said.

``Maybe they could have called a technical foul,'' Gordon Sr. said.

Or, maybe Weber should have yanked Frazier out of the lineup to make a statement about good sportsmanship. But the coach, known as Mr. Nice Guy, simply stood and watched, as if he approved of the act. ``I'm sure it wasn't anything malicious,'' Weber said later, oblivious to the night's context.

This was not a good night for Illinois, even before Gordon banked in a three-pointer to force overtime, before Shaun Pruitt missed three potential game-winning free throws, before Michael Jordan's kid hit a jumpshot and before the Illini fell 83-79 in double overtime to the insanely harassed Gordon and the 14th-ranked Hoosiers. From the minute the doors of the ancient building opened, fans were too fired up about the story line. During warmups, the students stood in all their orange-covered rage, pointing at Gordon as he stretched on the court, abusing him in a 360-degree taunt that might have been scary if a bearded, Sasquatch-sized security man wasn't nearby in a headset.

``Traitor! Traitor! Traitor!'' they chanted.

``Liar! Liar! Liar!'' they continued, louder.

``Sellout! Sellout! Sellout!'' they continued, louder.

And this was 30 minutes before tipoff. When Gordon emerged from the tunnel for the game, as a jazzed-up version of ``Welcome to the Jungle'' ripped over the loudspeakers, it felt like more like a bullfighting pit than a college rivalry. From the Orange Krush student section to even some of the townies, this was a chance to blame all the recent frustrations of Illinois basketball on the brilliant guard from Indianapolis who bailed on an Illini commitment to sign with Indiana.

``(Bleep) you, Gordon! (Bleep) you, Gordon!'' the students pummeled him all night, from many parts of the arena. When they weren't cursing him, they were booing him, every time he touched the ball, every time he breathed. And when it became apparent that they were getting to him, with Gordon missing all four of his first-half shots and managing one point, they launched a new chant: ``In your head! In your head!''

At least it was a clean chant. I asked Gordon Sr. what he thought of the reception. ``What I expected,'' he said.

Which was what? ``Who they are,'' he said.

And what did Weber think of the fans? ``We couldn't ask for more from the crowd,'' he said, clueless again. ``They were tremendous.''

As great players do, Gordon shut out the calamity. In the second half, he settled down, got to the free-throw line and helped Indiana survive the nuthouse. ``I wasn't really worried about it,'' he said, looking half-asleep. ``The only thing I was worried about was trying to get a win.''

As for Frazier's chest bump? ``Yeah, well, that's what he did. And you can't worry about that,'' Gordon said. ``I'm just glad what happened at the end of the game ... It's just another Big Ten game on the road. They're a good team, it's hard to win here.''

Indiana coach Kelvin Sampson, who is almost as reviled around here as Gordon, thought the pre-game taunts were out of bounds. ``I have to be honest, I heard the stuff during warmups,'' he said. ``But once the game started, I just heard the noise. We talked about this with our team. It's a 94-foot slab of rectangular wood out there. At the end of the day, this is what we do. It shouldn't be something that affects you.''

And in the interests of civility, Sampson did his best to downplay the Frazier bump. ``I don't think it was anything malicious,'' he said, curiously using the same phrase as Weber. ``I don't think he was trying to do anything hyperkinetic. I think he was hyped.''

Overhyped.

I almost wish sideline reporter Erin Andrews, the most popular female on American college campuses, would have been here to distract the rowdy lads. Instead, ESPN assigned Patrick Forde, who didn't interest them. All I have to say is: Come on, you're smarter than that at the University of Illinois, a top 25 institution of higher learning. I realize the clownish Andy Richter and various media buffoons went here, but so did Nobel laureates, Pulitzer Prize winners, the co-founders of YouTube, Roger Ebert, the inventor of the Plasma screen and, of course, Hef.

They would tell you that recruiting is a rough business, that Weber might not be slick enough to survive. Like the endless angst over Chief Illiniwek's passing, it's time to move past Gordon and ponder more current issues: Such as, what in the name of Deron Williams and Dee Brown has happened to your hoops program? Brown was in the house for the game, saluted like a god as he waved to the crowd, and Williams delivered a simple videotaped message from his all-world perch in Utah: ``Beat Indiana.''

But nothing will change the fact that Gordon isn't coming. He'll spend one season at Indiana and head to the highest levels of the NBA lottery. ``I think I made the better choice of staying here at Indiana,'' Gordon said before he stepped into the madness. ``Basically, coach gave me all the freedom I want. He promised me that, and he's living up to that.''

The much bigger issue is what has happened to Weber's program since Gordon's flip-flop, which the overcaffeinated athletic director, Ron Guenther, still describes as a ``defection.'' An elite national program would have shaken off the tough blow and carried on as usual. But only of late has Weber started to recruit sufficiently enough to hush criticism that he's headed for an unhappy ending in Champaign, where the Illini are now 2-9 in the Big Ten.

The focus should be on Weber and whether he can revive a sinking ship that only three years ago was a rocket veering toward the national championship game. He won with Bill Self's players, as he hears at least once an hour his every working day, but by any measure, he has failed to capitalize on that high-profile, national-spotlight moment.

Sure, he has had some difficult circumstances -- Gordon, Jamar Smith's DUI arrest, academic issues. But really now, don't all programs have issues? The good programs overcome them, the mediocre programs do not, and I remind you that Weber doesn't preside over a mid-major that should be protected by media apologists. This is ILLINOIS. And the Deron-and-Dee momentum is gone. Weber has a staunch defender in Guenther, who recently told the Sun-Times that he expects to extend a contract that already runs through 2012.

But Weber must contend for conference titles. And fretting about Gordon isn't the way to do so. Funny thing was, Weber said before the game that the issue was dead. ``We've moved beyond it. We just have to move forward with what we have and do the best we can,'' he said.

Frazier echoed those feelings. ``He didn't let me down. It was his choice,'' he said of Gordon. ``At the end of the day, he has to do what's going to benefit him.''

But not without giving him a pointed shot in the chest.

Sad.

You can say whatever you would like about Coach Sampson's violations. I was not impressed with them. He was punished, the program was punished and still maybe punished further, but Coach Sampson shakes everyone of his opponents hands, he praises his opponents after games. That's called sportsmanship. Coach Weber, runs off the court after barely shaking Sampson's hand, and defend's his players thuggery.

Bruce Weber is classless. They are 0-2 against IU this year, and thats what they deserve

[hoopsguy]

Johnny, I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm honestly not sure you understand the idea of "class" well enough to call anyone classless if your measuring stick is that a repeat cheater shaking hands with people he has cheated.

I hope that Indiana gets what they deserve for soiling themselves with Sampson.

[Kodos]

While I agree that IU has soiled themselves with Sampson, I think you're being a bit pathetic.

[Johnny93g]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Johnny, I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm honestly not sure you understand the idea of "class" well enough to call anyone classless if your measuring stick is that a repeat cheater shaking hands with people he has cheated.

I hope that Indiana gets what they deserve for soiling themselves with Sampson.

Eric Gordon didnt want to goto Illinois, which means Sampson cheated Bruce Weber...

The kid CHANGED HIS MIND.

Get over it.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Kodos

While I agree that IU has soiled themselves with Sampson, I think you're being a bit pathetic.

I'll redirect. Do you think that Bruce Weber is classless based on his, and his programs, conduct since the Gordon saga went down. Why or why not?

[Kodos]

I didn't call Weber classless. Although he's been a big baby concerning the whole Eric Gordon saga.

[hoopsguy]

Right, the other Indiana fan did. And I responded to that assertion. I would probably have taken a different tack if the claim had been "Weber could/should have handled this better".

We're all fans of programs, based on posting in this thread. We are all bringing some biases to the table. I get that, and I'm as guilty of it as the next guy. I'm far from the most fervent Weber fan in Block I, but I found that "classless" statement to border on ridiculous. He is widely regarded as one of the nice guys in the business and he is clean to a fault in running his program.

[INDalltheway]

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

My Hoosiers are now 19-3, 8-1 in the Big Ten. Hoping they put together a little winning streak down the strech. We got a few battle with Michigan St. coming up which will decide the conference championship.

How bout them Boilermakers?

[Dunleavy]

the whole idea of praising spamson while calling Weber class-less is absrud

as for idkwti, he didn't just change his mind. he walked Illinois out into the middle of the desert, then he said peace and left on a chopper leaving the Illinois program lost and without water, mediforically speaking ofcourse

[Kodos]

Last season, IU's football team lost verbal commit Jeremy Finch to Florida on a last-second defection on signing day. He would have been the highest-rated commit in over a decade. It was upsetting, but fans haven't held onto it and obsessed over it. I realize it's a bit different because IU and Illinois are in the same conference, but at some point, you have to let go on stuff like this. It happens to everyone. IU was the stealer this time. At some point again, they will be the victim. The way the Illini fanbase has internalized the defection of a player who will be one and done is a bit amazing.

Go ahead and hate Sampson if you must. I don't like him either. I wish he was gone. And if sanctions are brought against IU, I will be in the camp that says we got what was coming to us for hiring Sampson in the first place. It was very disappointing to me when he was hired. It shows misplaced priorities. Say what you will about Bobby Knight (another guy who was not my favorite), he ran a clean program. Not so much with Sampson, and that has been a disappointment for me.

[hoopsguy]

Kodos, Illinois has benefitted from several de-commits in football in this most recent class, two of them notably from Iowa.

That said, football and basketball have - in the past - held different standards regarding the continued recruitment of players after a verbal commitment. This is especially true within the conference, as demonstrated by the backlash by the conference commissioners and public statements of other Big 10 coaches at the time. Is it right or wrong that there are different standards? Beats me. In a head-in-the-sand moment I would tell you that I wish all players would honor their commitments, but that isn't the real world.

Would it make more sense to you if they were lamenting the defection of a less talented player who would be around for four years instead of a one-and-done? I think many Illini fans find it convenient to blame the Gordon saga on Indiana and think about what could have been if you plugged in a go-to scorer at the shooting guard position on this years team. It is pretty easy to convince myself that the team would have 5 more wins, just by virtue of closing out games better than the currently assembled motley crew.

[Kodos]

I just think a one-year player, no matter how talented he might be, can only do so much good for a team. I would take Calbert Cheaney over Eric Gordon any time.

[hoopsguy]

Only problem with that logic is that you don't know when a Calbert Cheaney comes to the program that he is going to be that kind of four year performer. He is, most of the time, seen as a building block but not a program-builder when you are talking about a perennial Top 25 caliber team.

To pick between two fairly similarly hyped Illini players coming in, he could be Deron Williams (yeah, I know he only played 3) or Rich McBride (who was higher rated by most systems coming out of HS).

[watravaler]

Eric Gordon and his family doesn't deserve your respect or pity. He could have easily told Illinois and Bruce Weber that he was having second thoughts and/or simply decomitted. He didn't, he lied to the coaching staff till the very end. It screwed the Illinois basketball program out of a few excellent recruits in the process. Of course, some fans took the thing too far, but again, don't feel sorry for the kid, he had the ribbing coming...

Nevertheless, it's all in the past now, and I'm glad to see the IU-UI rivalry heating up once again...

I'll take four years of McCamey over a year of Gordon, although the Illini would most certainly be a tournament team with Gordon...sigh...at least the best recruiting classes the Illini program has ever seen are on the way...2009 can't get hear soon enough...

[Johnny93g]

Originally Posted by INDalltheway

How bout them Boilermakers?

LOL...I hope the Hoosiers don't look past them like i did. They are having a fantastic Big Ten season

[Johnny93g]

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

the whole idea of praising spamson while calling Weber class-less is absrud

as for idkwti, he didn't just change his mind. he walked Illinois out into the middle of the desert, then he said peace and left on a chopper leaving the Illinois program lost and without water, mediforically speaking ofcourse

How serious can I take you when you lower yourself to name calling.

[Dunleavy]

huh? who'd i call what?

[hoopsguy]

IDKWTI = Illini fan code for Gordon. "I Don't Know Who That Is", referencing a Deron Williams quote when asked about Gordon switching over to Indiana.

His variation on "You're dead to me, Fredo".

[Ryno]

Originally Posted by watravaler

He could have easily told Illinois and Bruce Weber that he was having second thoughts and/or simply decomitted. He didn't, he lied to the coaching staff till the very end. It screwed the Illinois basketball program out of a few excellent recruits in the process.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter.

On a side note, everyone seems to think Gordon is one and done. He's certainly a talented player, but do 6'3" shooting guards usually get drafted after one year of college?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Only a deluded Hoosiers fan could watch what happened with the Eric Gordon saga, observe the continued violations by Sampson, and conclude that Weber is the one that is classless. I'm astonished that the same fan base that used to crow about their integrity with Bob Knight as coach can make statements like this.

Sampson had issues running a legit program at Oklahoma, and has had other issues at IU besides Gordon. I'm not sure how anyone can look at him and think things are on the up and up now.

I can't find what is specifically tripping in my memory about his Wazzu stint either, but I feel like there was stuff going on there, too. Maybe WSUCougar can help recall. I remember wondering how in the heck he got the Oklahoma job from what he did at Wazzu, and that has stuck with me through the years.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ryno

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter.

On a side note, everyone seems to think Gordon is one and done. He's certainly a talented player, but do 6'3" shooting guards usually get drafted after one year of college?

Mayo is even shorter and supposedly gone. As is Rose, I believe.

Not sure what everyone thinks of Bilas, but I think he is usually a pretty solid analyst, and he said Gordon, Rose, Mayo and Beasley are absolute locks to go pro from among the star frosh this season (and will probably be the top four picks).

He cites as his evidence for smallish guards going pro, BTW, the continued success of AI, and the more recent small man additions of Ben Gordon and Deron Williams, among others, as reasons why small scoring guards in college are less afraid to go pro right away.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

Bruce Weber is Classless.

An article on yesterday's game from the CHICAGO Sun-times





You can say whatever you would like about Coach Sampson's violations. I was not impressed with them. He was punished, the program was punished and still maybe punished further, but Coach Sampson shakes everyone of his opponents hands, he praises his opponents after games. That's called sportsmanship. Coach Weber, runs off the court after barely shaking Sampson's hand, and defend's his players thuggery.

Bruce Weber is classless. They are 0-2 against IU this year, and thats what they deserve

Yeah, gotta agree with this. Sampson is no winner, but no one in Illinois--in particular Weber--looks good here either.

Reminds me of the Oregon-UCLA game ten days ago, where the Oregon fans were heaping hate messages and personal insults at Oregon native and UO legacy Kevin Love because he chose to go to Westwood instead. A high school "friend" even gave out Love's cellphone number in advance, so he got tons of hate mail as text messages and voicemails (so much he had to pretty much put away the phone until he could change his number). It got so bad his dad, Stan Love, refuses to ever go back there--where he himself was a star--and the OU AD had to come out a few days later to apologize publically for the whole affair.

And all that seems tame next to this IU-Illini situation.

(BTW, Love let his play do the talking and dominated the game in a tough road win for the Bruins).

[Ryno]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Mayo is even shorter and supposedly gone. As is Rose, I believe.

Not sure what everyone thinks of Bilas, but I think he is usually a pretty solid analyst, and he said Gordon, Rose, Mayo and Beasley are absolute locks to go pro from among the star frosh this season (and will probably be the top four picks).

He cites as his evidence for smallish guards going pro, BTW, the continued success of AI, and the more recent small man additions of Ben Gordon and Deron Williams, among others, as reasons why small scoring guards in college are less afraid to go pro right away.

Rose, Mayo, AI, and Williams are all point guards though. Eric Gordon is a pure shooting guard as far as I can tell. It's been years since I've seen any NBA games, but that used to be a pretty big distinction.

I thought it would have been unprecedented for an undersized SG to be drafted as an underclassman, but I did a quick look at the past 6-7 NBA drafts, and found one - Louis Williams drafted by the 76'ers out of high school. It's very rare, but apparently possible. I'll have to defer to the experts, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he comes back for at least one more year.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ryno

Rose, Mayo, AI, and Williams are all point guards though. Eric Gordon is a pure shooting guard as far as I can tell. It's been years since I've seen any NBA games, but that used to be a pretty big distinction.

Ben Gordon is a pure shooting guard.

Point is, they are all "scoring guards" rather than distributors, and they all were or will be drafted high, and all will likely succeed at the pro level.

[Dunleavy]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Yeah, gotta agree with this. Sampson is no winner, but no one in Illinois--in particular Weber--looks good here either.

Reminds me of the Oregon-UCLA game ten days ago, where the Oregon fans were heaping hate messages and personal insults at Oregon native and UO legacy Kevin Love because he chose to go to Westwood instead. A high school "friend" even gave out Love's cellphone number in advance, so he got tons of hate mail as text messages and voicemails (so much he had to pretty much put away the phone until he could change his number). It got so bad his dad, Stan Love, refuses to ever go back there--where he himself was a star--and the OU AD had to come out a few days later to apologize publically for the whole affair.

And all that seems tame next to this IU-Illini situation.

i'm not fimilier with the Love-UCLA-ORE trinagle but in the Illinois-Gordon deal there was and is a far amount of resentment against Gordon for leading Illinois on even after he had changed his mind, Sr. Gordon played a part in this as well (i.e. he's no Illinois hero past or present). after reading what you said happened during the game and the context of both i'm not sure how you can say that the Illini situation was way worse. i still can't believe how bad Illinois basketball got killed nationally by all the talking heads. during the UI vs IU game there was a pre game bump, a kinda of but not really hard foul, and a lot of booing. now in the stands one jackars threw some beeds and a few others yelled profanities but it seemed like they had a half dozen security and police around them handling the situation. no doubt it was a hostle enviroment but everyone knew it would be but there were no crimes against humanity here

edit: Rum, i'm just venting b/c of all the t.v. heads over reacting per par

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

edit: Rum, i'm just venting b/c of all the t.v. heads over reacting per par

Understood.

It's not about assessing blame, but about the general tenor of the whole situation.

There just seems to be a lot more ugliness to this than the Love-Oregon thing, and it has gone beyond insults to the physical, and wasn't just held up with fans but involved players and coaches as well.

On every level, the Illinois-Indiana situation has exceeded the Love-Oregon except perhaps for the cellphone thing, and the Love-UO thing was significantly hostile.

[Radii]

UCLA/Washington heading for a good finish, Washington leads 59-53 with 5 minutes left.

[Groundhog]

I didn't realise Brady was fired at LSU? Wow. That's pretty harsh IMO. Any LSU fans on here got any thoughts?

[MJ4H]

I'm disappointed. I wanted him to stay there a long time. (iow they should've canned him ages ago)

[GoldenEagle]

UCLA goes down, again. I am just not sure how people can consistently say they are the best team in the country.

[dawgfan]

Big, big win for the UW today, knocking off UCLA 71-61. Huskies probably won't make even the NIT this year, but this is a big win for a program that has been struggling this season to live up to the expectations from a couple years back, and should prove to the team that they are capable of playing much better than they have of late.

[Radii]

Washington 71. UCLA 61. I only saw the last 5 minutes or so but there is no way UCLA should have lost this. Washington missed 6 straight free throws at one point and was 12-25 until the last 30 seconds or so. Down 6 with 45 seconds to go UCLA tried a 3/4 court inbounds pass into traffic after giving up a layup that resulted in a turnover, just didn't look good at all towards the end.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

UCLA goes down, again. I am just not sure how people can consistently say they are the best team in the country.

There are no nights off in the PAC-10...well..maybe Oregon State...It will serve the Bruins well come tournament time...

As an aside, Stanford is now tied for the PAC-10 lead!

[Karlifornia]

Can Clemson finally get over the hump and win a big ACC game? They've started well, but you know UNC is going to make a run.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

UCLA goes down, again. I am just not sure how people can consistently say they are the best team in the country.

I've been saying Kansas! Can't wait to see Tennessee/Memphis in a couple weeks, maybe that'll convince me otherwise.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

UCLA goes down, again. I am just not sure how people can consistently say they are the best team in the country.

That's a "you" problem.

Not sure they are either (and certainly didn't show it today), but the reason you can't see it is because you don't like that we call you out on Memphis and that we beat you when it counted.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Can Clemson finally get over the hump and win a big ACC game? They've started well, but you know UNC is going to make a run.

I don't think UNC is going to make a run, honestly. Without Lawson, UNC had 7 turnovers in the first 4 minutes. Clemson with good size actually matches up better with UNC to exploit UNC's problems without a point guard. Ellington was cold vs Duke but he was also struggling to get open shots and forcing too much, again without anyone to run the offense, leaving only Hansbrough who without a floor leader gets ignored for 4-5 minutes at a time. I don't think there's a run coming.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Radii

leaving only Hansbrough who without a floor leader gets ignored for 4-5 minutes at a time. I don't think there's a run coming.

The few UNC games I've seen this year remind me of the Orlando Magic games I've seen, where I spend 75% of the game wondering why they don't just give the damn ball to Howard/Hansbrough every time down the court.

Must suck to be a bigman at times, especially when you've got scoring guards on the roster.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Big, big win for the UW today, knocking off UCLA 71-61. Huskies probably won't make even the NIT this year, but this is a big win for a program that has been struggling this season to live up to the expectations from a couple years back, and should prove to the team that they are capable of playing much better than they have of late.

UCLA's inconsistency is troubling, and makes me doubt this team can go as far as the past two, even if it has more overall talent than those teams.

UDub had a great gameplan today and came to play, with heart and toughness. And Dentmon was just abusing Collison, which is saying something (prior to today, can't remember the last time that happened).

Washington should have won it by even more--they were absolutely horrid at the line.

As for UCLA, just an awful game. Collison was terrible today (and once again, it's extremely rare to say that). Shipp has been in a funk for a month now. Once again, missing Luc hurt us defensively. And most importantly--a consistent issue with this UCLA team--we are amazingly stagnant offensively in the half court offense when we're not hitting from outside. It's the big issue I have consistently seen with Howland's teams. I used to think it was becuase he couldn't find a quality big man. I now think it's because he just isn't a very good half-court offensive game coach.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

There are no nights off in the PAC-10...well..maybe Oregon State...It will serve the Bruins well come tournament time...

As an aside, Stanford is now tied for the PAC-10 lead!

Yup, Stanford deserves to be there, too, with the way they have been playing. It will be a great matchup at Pauley.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Radii

Washington 71. UCLA 61. I only saw the last 5 minutes or so but there is no way UCLA should have lost this. Washington missed 6 straight free throws at one point and was 12-25 until the last 30 seconds or so. Down 6 with 45 seconds to go UCLA tried a 3/4 court inbounds pass into traffic after giving up a layup that resulted in a turnover, just didn't look good at all towards the end.

That lasted the whole game, really. There was never a point where UCLA looked good in this game. Kudos to UDub.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Radii

I've been saying Kansas! Can't wait to see Tennessee/Memphis in a couple weeks, maybe that'll convince me otherwise.

I think Memphis and Kansas have the edge now. I would probably lean Kansas for now since they play in the Big 12, but what does it matter? It will all be decided in March.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

The few UNC games I've seen this year remind me of the Orlando Magic games I've seen, where I spend 75% of the game wondering why they don't just give the damn ball to Howard/Hansbrough every time down the court.

When they're healthy and have Lawson running the show, they're scoring so much in transition and finding the right person for the right shot so often(and so quickly), that its ok. But without the floor leader, they're playing about 95% of their possessions in a half court set and then you're exactly right, Hansbrough should touch the ball nearly every possession and kick it back out if he doesn't have great position/an advantage inside. For some reason that just doesn't happen enough.

[MrBug708]

Collison is still fighting the effects of being sick and it showed. Worst game of his career IMO. DC is 3/23 his last two trips to UW and the team plays terrible there

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

UCLA goes down, again. I am just not sure how people can consistently say they are the best team in the country.

LOL. I know this is directed at me, but your ignorance is obviously showing.

Karl...you should give all the UW's a nice gift for letting you guys back in the race

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I think Memphis and Kansas have the edge now. I would probably lean Kansas for now since they play in the Big 12, but what does it matter? It will all be decided in March.

Oh I guess everyone answers that question differently then. When I answer the "who I think is best" its always in terms of who I think is set up the best to be the team I expect to be the favorite in the tournament. Memphis, until they prove otherwise, will never be my favorite. No team playing in a conference like CUSA will be IMO. It takes a 1990 UNLV level of talent to overcome the lack of intensity that the team needs to get through conference schedule. Memphis has good players, and a good coach, but if they make the final four, I'll be surprised, and if they win it all I'll be freaking stunned.

Its not the BCS, everyone gets their chance, and if they can win 6 in a row in March, grats to them. But I'll believe it when I see it. And I think history is *strongly* on my side on this.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I think Memphis and Kansas have the edge now. I would probably lean Kansas for now since they play in the Big 12, but what does it matter? It will all be decided in March.

I think we've all learned that trying to predict March is folly. Don't get me wrong, I like our chances. But to expect the tourney to be anything more than a crapshoot, even if you're in the top 10ish teams, is folly.

SI

[Groundhog]

Definately agree re: Memphis. I like their team and enjoy watching them play, but I don't see them being serious contenders. They could easily prove me wrong if they get hot in March, but right now I don't see it.