College Football Recruiting (2009 Class)

[Karlifornia]

Dear UCLA and USC fans,

Shut up.

Love,
Everyone else

[MJ4H]

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Got it. Cause Manti thought Norton was going to be the DC at UCLA before this season even started, when he was including UCLA in his talk of potential schools? BTW, UCLA already has a commitment from a premium linebacker in Golper, so apparently he's not so impressed with Norton, I guess.

If Teo will only come because of Norton, then Teo is an awful judge of character, and will fit in perfectly at USC.

Too bad, really. I had long heard rumors about Norton and his character, but I thought Carroll was above it all. His rep's too important to allow himself to get pulled into this.

Out of the three parties invovled, the one with the most baggage came out looking the best. Carroll had his own reasons for telling Norton to bring it out. Rick, for all his faults, has been given the benefit of the doubt and considering the media story that could come to whoever breaks "Slick Rick at it for a third time", seems to have his ducks in a row and looks to be a non story.

I don't understand Ken Norton's angle in this whole thing though. If Rick is actually telling his recruits this, Norton is likely in line for a sizeable pay raise as well as more responsibility as his alma mater. Henry Bibby, for all his dead beat dad faults, would probably always be welcomed back at UCLA for most basketball functions and even as an assistant coach if he wanted to. It's not like Rick is a defensive coach where Norton's schemes and playcalls would be overruled because that is Neu's speciality either, he'd be handed control of the defense. So let's assume Carroll told him to come out and say these things. If that's true, Carroll obviously doesn't think much of Norton because Norton just ended up looking like a dumbass. Which also doesn't make sense because Norton would have also sabotaged his own career...?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I'll talk Norton over Slick Rick in a battle of character every single time. Rick's past is going to hurt him eventually if not sooner.

Norton was more of a pawn in Carroll's chess game. This is also the same Carroll that called up Walker and told him not to take the UCLA DC job because it was a bad job to take...No self interest there right?

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I don't understand Ken Norton's angle in this whole thing though. If Rick is actually telling his recruits this, Norton is likely in line for a sizeable pay raise as well as more responsibility as his alma mater. Henry Bibby, for all his dead beat dad faults, would probably always be welcomed back at UCLA for most basketball functions and even as an assistant coach if he wanted to. It's not like Rick is a defensive coach where Norton's schemes and playcalls would be overruled because that is Neu's speciality either, he'd be handed control of the defense. So let's assume Carroll told him to come out and say these things. If that's true, Carroll obviously doesn't think much of Norton because Norton just ended up looking like a dumbass. Which also doesn't make sense because Norton would have also sabotaged his own career...?

It's very simple. Norton is an honorable honest guy who values loyalty. Pete has always shown loyalty to his guys (to a fault, I think that it was a mistake to promote Morton) and Norton has said many times that he is at USC for as long as Pete is here. Pete will make sure he gets taken care of with a nice raise this upcoming year. Norton is a great recruiter, probably our most important outside of Pete, and Pete knows that. I think a lot of UCLA fans do, too from what I've read on their boards and how much they wanted Norton.

[MrBug708]

Most UCLA fans didn't want Norton except to screw Carroll over. Most know his value is in his recruiting, not his coaching. Even if he were promoted to DC at USC, he'd hold it name mostly...

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Most UCLA fans didn't want Norton except to screw Carroll over. Most know his value is in his recruiting, not his coaching. Even if he were promoted to DC at USC, he'd hold it name mostly...

Ditto.

Not saying Norton's value as a great recruiter should be discarded--that is certainly a fantastic asset to have as a college coach. But if the stories I have been hearing are true, Neu isn't really in desperate need of a great recruiter, because he's pretty good at it himself (in the same infectious way Carroll is). No, what he would need most from a defensive coach is an excellent schemer, motivator and X's & O's guy. I think Norton might get some points for the middle, but pretty much everyone except for a handful of diehards acknowledge that the rest is a bit of a mystery, and that Norton is way too much of a risk to be handed a job of that responsibility without proving himself.

Which is why this story is and has always been a little silly. Most anyone following the program knows and has known that Norton would never be hired by Neu at this stage of "Kenny's" coaching career. So a trumped up "controversy" about rumors to that effect is kinda like rumors Texeira was going to sign with the Nats--vaguely possible, I suppose, but not bloody likely.

If Neu's track record is an indication, I suspect he will either go with a Walker lieutenant like Chuck Bullough, or well-travelled Ricky Hunley, serving as a grad assistant at UCLA at the moment in a position he is ridiculously over-qualified for, or he will make another "splash" with a big name DC hire.

One of the local radio heads said it best. Rick doesn't get into the media--unless he wants to be. Consider that this strange story is coming out right when USC talk is at its height, going into the Rose Bowl. Exactly what Neuheisel was aiming for, methinks.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

One of the local radio heads said it best. Rick doesn't get into the media--unless he wants to be. Consider that this strange story is coming out right when USC talk is at its height, going into the Rose Bowl. Exactly what Neuheisel was aiming for, methinks.

Neuheisel has gotten into the media multiple times when he didn't want to, so that theory doesn't hold a lot of water. However, I do think in this case it's correct, and it's because Neuheisel knew that by spreading rumors about Norton right now it would mess with the minds of the USC coaching staff.

Remember when Neuheisel was spreading rumors about Bob Toledo back when Neuheisel was at the UW and Toledo was at UCLA?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Neuheisel has gotten into the media multiple times when he didn't want to, so that theory doesn't hold a lot of water. However, I do think in this case it's correct, and it's because Neuheisel knew that by spreading rumors about Norton right now it would mess with the minds of the USC coaching staff.

Remember when Neuheisel was spreading rumors about Bob Toledo back when Neuheisel was at the UW and Toledo was at UCLA?

I think the radio head was talking about how Neuheisel has handled things since he has come to UCLA. Some things mentioned have been him showing up at last year's Rose Bowl and being interviewed, or the LA football monopoly buisness is over, or the reports of him using a booster offer of a helicopter to make it to multiple recruits' games in one night, or the uniform deal with USC last month. Point is, Neuheisel, who was always pretty good with the media, has elevated his game even more now, and that he's much more of a maestro in this respect. So, now, when his name ends up in the media, it's almost always because he wants it to be.

Obviously, that wasn't nearly so true at Washington and Colorado (particularly Washington).

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Remember when Neuheisel was spreading rumors about Bob Toledo back when Neuheisel was at the UW and Toledo was at UCLA?

Heh, and yeah, I do remember that.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I think the radio head was talking about how Neuheisel has handled things since he has come to UCLA. Some things mentioned have been him showing up at last year's Rose Bowl and being interviewed, or the LA football monopoly buisness is over, or the reports of him using a booster offer of a helicopter to make it to multiple recruits' games in one night, or the uniform deal with USC last month. Point is, Neuheisel, who was always pretty good with the media, has elevated his game even more now, and that he's much more of a maestro in this respect. So, now, when his name ends up in the media, it's almost always because he wants it to be.

Obviously, that wasn't nearly so true at Washington and Colorado (particularly Washington).

He was good at manipulating the media at Washington too (and likely at Colorado). It's just that the mistakes he made also got him into the media in ways he didn't want. The big question is, has he changed enough since being fired at the UW to avoid those kind of mistakes?

I think Neuheisel is a likable guy, a hell of an in-game motivator, a pretty good offensive mind and a good recruiter. It would be good for the Pac-10 if he's also improved in other areas (skirting rules, lying, program toughness, player evaluation).

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Neuheisel has gotten into the media multiple times when he didn't want to, so that theory doesn't hold a lot of water. However, I do think in this case it's correct, and it's because Neuheisel knew that by spreading rumors about Norton right now it would mess with the minds of the USC coaching staff.

Remember when Neuheisel was spreading rumors about Bob Toledo back when Neuheisel was at the UW and Toledo was at UCLA?

I certainly understand the skepticism as UW was burned by Rick. But I also think Rick knows his once in a lifetime job will also be his last in a lifetime job. Not saying he will be free of temptation, but he burns this bridge and he's done coaching, at least in college. So I think he's being a bit wiser about it. (Or working on a way to hide it better )

As for maturity, I think it's down to where you believe your 26 year old is more mature then when they were 19 or even 15 years old. Certainly the same person, but vastly mature at each stage. (Ya, I butchered the metaphor, screw it!)

[BishopMVP]

Notre Dame's been quiet the last two months since the Shaquelle Evans pickup, only signing a long-snapper from Florida, but apparently yesterday we got a verbal from 4/5* 2010 Tackle Christian Lombard from Illinois.

Beyond that, the message boards still seem to be hoping to pick up Jelani Jenkins or Manti Te'o - I think the latter is more likely after the Hawaii Bowl, but we're the favorites for neither.

Army AA game was today, and the UA one is tonight (on an ESPN?) I might catch some of the latter, but at the least there should be some commits from both to veer this thread back on track.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Notre Dame's been quiet the last two months since the Shaquelle Evans pickup, only signing a long-snapper from Florida, but apparently yesterday we got a verbal from 4/5* 2010 Tackle Christian Lombard from Illinois.

Beyond that, the message boards still seem to be hoping to pick up Jelani Jenkins or Manti Te'o - I think the latter is more likely after the Hawaii Bowl, but we're the favorites for neither.

Army AA game was today, and the UA one is tonight (on an ESPN?) I might catch some of the latter, but at the least there should be some commits from both to veer this thread back on track.

Sources close to Manti are saying USC, although BYU is still in the running and they have stated that ND is out of the running.

[DeToxRox]

Jenkins is a UF lock as well.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

Sources close to Manti are saying USC, although BYU is still in the running and they have stated that ND is out of the running.

Yeah, Manti is looking much more likely to go to USC over the past few weeks, but BYU is definitely in the running. I think it is fairly clear that it is a 2 team race at this point.

[Eaglesfan27]

Dola -

There was talk that he became upset with USC after Uona Kaveinga decided not to take his mission, but that has apparently been addressed by the staff to Manti's satisfaction.

[BishopMVP]

I'm assuming we'll get neither, but all this talk about insiders and locks is always overblown imo. Sitting on the outside, expecting nothing, but having maybe a 10% chance of being pleasantly surprised is just as good as sitting there expecting a player to verbal (or honor his verbal in many cases) and ending up disappointed if he doesn't.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Dola -

There was talk that he became upset with USC after Uona Kaveinga decided not to take his mission, but that has apparently been addressed by the staff to Manti's satisfaction.

So what kind of car was promised?

[Eaglesfan27]

Just catching up to the UA game, nice to see John Martinez commit to USC.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Just catching up to the UA game, nice to see John Martinez commit to USC.

Who doesn't commit to USC?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Yeah, Manti is looking much more likely to go to USC over the past few weeks, but BYU is definitely in the running. I think it is fairly clear that it is a 2 team race at this point.

From what is coming out of Manti's mouth it seems he is leaning more to BYU, though he is being cryptic at best. I would hate to lose another kid like this to the Trojans (Latui, Havili, Kavienga)

Pete Carroll needs to take the Denver job!!

[CU Tiger]

Bryce McNeal's commitment to Clemson at yesterday's ARMY all star game may be huge, as it seems 5star QB Tajh Boyd is looking to follow... I hadnt really followed these two much, but looks like both are highly coveted recruits.

[DeToxRox]

There are rumblings Boyd may decide to not take his last visit but Clemson instead. He played with 5 UM commits at the game yesterday and they were all on him apparently. He said he's interested, but I think it's looking slim he comes here.

I'd still say OSU but whoever gets his final visit (Clemson/UM) has a legit shot

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

From what is coming out of Manti's mouth it seems he is leaning more to BYU, though he is being cryptic at best. I would hate to lose another kid like this to the Trojans (Latui, Havili, Kavienga)

Pete Carroll needs to take the Denver job!!

A few weeks ago, I thought he was a lock for BYU. I still think there is a decent chance he goes to BYU.

Pete has already said he isn't interested in Denver (and I don't think Denver would be interested in giving him complete control which he would want in an NFL job.)

[DeToxRox]

Forgot to add 5* DT William Campbell recommited to Michigan yesterday.

Not the best way he went about it, but saying Michigan was out of it (without saying why, though it's obvious that it had a lot to do with people finding him in the UM student directory, added with all the other kids enrolling early) and naming his final three as Florida, Miami and LSU.

During the week he built suspense on the announcement by first making it seem like he were an LSU lock, and then a Miami lock, before recommiting to Michigan.

Whatever the case, glad he is back in the fold to give us perhaps the nations top DL class (as of now) with

5* DT Campbell
4* DT DeQuinta Jones
4* DT Pearlie Graves
4* DE Craig Roh
4* DE Anthony LaLota

Plus UM has 4* DE Sam Montgomery on campus this weekend coming up for an Official Visit.

We could lose Graves and Jones though as their recruiter LB Coach Jay Hopson may head back South for a job.

[timmynausea]

4 star RB Tavon Austin made his commitment to WVU official today (he was rumored to be a silent verbal for a while now.) The Mountaineers also picked up 4 star CB Michael Carter at the Army All-American game. He chose West Virginia over Florida and Minnesota.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

4 star RB Tavon Austin made his commitment to WVU official today (he was rumored to be a silent verbal for a while now.) The Mountaineers also picked up 4 star CB Michael Carter at the Army All-American game. He chose West Virginia over Florida and Minnesota.

Gonna enjoy those 3 years of Carter?

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Gonna enjoy those 3 years of Carter?

I LOLed at that too when he said that at the game.

[timmynausea]

I thought that was pretty funny, too.

One more WVU recruiting note - RB Daquan Hargrett has been looking around quite a bit since committing back in June, most recently at Clemson. It sounds like he is on the verge of getting his offer pulled if he doesn't show some loyalty, especially now that Austin is in the fold.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

4 star RB Tavon Austin made his commitment to WVU official today (he was rumored to be a silent verbal for a while now.) The Mountaineers also picked up 4 star CB Michael Carter at the Army All-American game. He chose West Virginia over Florida and Minnesota.

3* DB/KR Broderick Jenkins signed today as well. There's also talk around the Terps boards that 4* corner Travis Hawkins is decommiting and if that happens he's expected to sign with WVU.

[DeToxRox]

WVU Faithful - Geno Smith is enrolled in class already, right?

Some guy says he has connections to Miramar and Geno is going to come up this weekend, which makes sense except for the fact he was supposed to enroll early.

Please, for all that is holy, tell me he is enrolled because as much as he'd be a nice get, I don't need the impending WVU/UM fan drama.

Not you guys (Timmy, Swaggs, Atocep) but you know what I mean.

[timmynausea]

He is enrolled. He could still drop at this point, though, I believe.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Not the best way he went about it, but saying Michigan was out of it (without saying why, though it's obvious that it had a lot to do with people finding him in the UM student directory, added with all the other kids enrolling early) and naming his final three as Florida, Miami and LSU.

During the week he built suspense on the announcement by first making it seem like he were an LSU lock, and then a Miami lock, before recommiting to Michigan.

I have no real problem with a recruit having fun with the recruiting services, but when you have your mom basically lying for you, having her make up stories about why you lied to the recruiting services (when its obvious he just lied to have fun), that shows some weak character on the whole family's part.

Now that being said, he at least is just a kid. Best of luck to him as he matures.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

WVU Faithful - Geno Smith is enrolled in class already, right?

Some guy says he has connections to Miramar and Geno is going to come up this weekend, which makes sense except for the fact he was supposed to enroll early.

Please, for all that is holy, tell me he is enrolled because as much as he'd be a nice get, I don't need the impending WVU/UM fan drama.

Not you guys (Timmy, Swaggs, Atocep) but you know what I mean.

Geno is all set to start classes later this month from everything I've seen. This is from people that talk to him almost on a daily basis. Those in the know are 100% positive he's ours and isn't looking around.

I've also been hearing that Rich seems to be trying to mend fences a bit and backed off of Geno to look at T. Boyd and other options. On top of, according to some, he's been mentioning WVU to any Michigan players that were looking to transfer. Take that for what its worth, but he actually made a comment congratulating WVU on getting Geno saying he's "the real deal".

I'm really not worried about losing him. I don't think he's a good fit for what Rich wants to do and at WVU he's got a shot to start as a true freshman and if that doesn't happen its wide open for him starting in '10.

[MacroGuru]

I'm in Utah right now for a work trip, but had a lunch with some of my friends in the know with Xavier and Manti (ie, family) and it was basically stated they are both heading to BYU.....I am going to take it with the grain of salt, because of the other recruiting situations we have seen.

[Logan]

Hey Sak, what's with this article saying that PSU may not have room for Justin Brown? Are they just trying to pressure him to commit, or are they backing off because they think he's going elsewhere? I find it hard to believe they wouldn't hold a spot for a big WR like him.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Logan

Hey Sak, what's with this article saying that PSU may not have room for Justin Brown? Are they just trying to pressure him to commit, or are they backing off because they think he's going elsewhere? I find it hard to believe they wouldn't hold a spot for a big WR like him.

Justin Brown's recruitment has been a roller coaster. I think the kid loves attention. Two days ago on Rivals.com he told the PSU guy that the Lions were one of his top 4. The one guy on BWI (rivals site) thinks that it was started by another coach trying to get Brown to visit them instead of Penn State.

[Dr. Sak]

Dola...

That Nittany Network site is the PSU site that I am paid to write for btw

[Logan]

That's what I figured when I saw the ESPN affiliate thing up top. I looked to see if you wrote it .

There was a thread linked over on our Rivals site where a PSU guy was contacting Brown on Facebook trying to get him to PSU, and the conversation between the kid and Brown was included. I loved how Brown brought up how PSU hasn't had a 1000 yard WR in 9 years and "how many of PSU's WRs go first round like Kenny Britt will."

[MrBug708]

So which of the current USC commits is the next to UCLA? I'd take both of Flourney and R. Carroll

[mckerney]

Wingo is now planning on taking a visit to Minnesota on the 16th, I'm a bit shocked he's making it up for a visit. Probably not a great shot with him, but it seems like it could really depend on convincing him he'd be able to play RB for the Gophers.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

So which of the current USC commits is the next to UCLA? I'd take both of Flourney and R. Carroll

I like our chances with Carroll, who I am certain now is not going to USC.

The Flournoy talk is interesting, but I have never seen it. I always thought he would end up sticking with the Trojies. Turner's gone now, and Hazleton's leaving. Even with the other top recruits USC has brought in at the position, I think Flournoy will see UCLA's younger talented WR corps as a hindrance and will think he will get on the field sooner at USC (may be the one position that is true between the two schools).

Speaking of recruits between USC and UCLA, I am more than a little worried Hasiak will be very impressed with his visit to SUC and decide to go there instead. We really need the big uglies, far more than we need more WRs.

[bhlloy]

Carroll is 50-50 UCLA and Cal. 0% chance of him ending up at USC. I know how this will sound, but I refer you back to my balanced comments about Morrell Presley - I think he's horribly overrated. He's Deshaun Jackson without the outstanding top end speed. For a guy that's a class sprinter, he doesn't seem to bring any of that speed to the football field and his hands are stone. He'll end up at corner wherever he plays, IMO. He looked lost in the AA game and didn't give any effort either.

Flournoy on the other hand, I really want to keep. He's underrated and is probably faster on the field than Carroll ever will be, has good hands and good size. I'd call that one 60-40 USC, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him switch to UCLA on his official visit. He wants to play with Milton Knox, seems like another Pressley situation all over again.

[MacroGuru]

Manti and Xavier plus several other recruits are at BYU this weekend.

Word has it Xavier is going to be committing to BYU soon. Again, that is the word from the street and nothing official.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I think Flournoy will see UCLA's younger talented WR corps as a hindrance and will think he will get on the field sooner at USC (may be the one position that is true between the two schools).

I don't think that is true. Damian Williams is showing all the signs of developing into a star, Ronald Johnson has great speed, Ausberry is still a nice big target, and Brice Butler has been impressive in practices. Not to mention Travon who has speed to burn if he could ever put the rest of it together.

As far as Carroll, I'm also sure he is gone. Flournoy I think is a 50-50 chance between USC-UCLA. I think Carroll will end up at Cal.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I don't think that is true. Damian Williams is showing all the signs of developing into a star, Ronald Johnson has great speed, Ausberry is still a nice big target, and Brice Butler has been impressive in practices. Not to mention Travon who has speed to burn if he could ever put the rest of it together.

As far as Carroll, I'm also sure he is gone. Flournoy I think is a 50-50 chance between USC-UCLA. I think Carroll will end up at Cal.

That's four juniors and a sophomore to be EF. And many of them are the type of talents who could very well leave early for the league.

Meanwhile, UCLA has just two guys who will be upperclassmen who are expected to contribute at WR next year in Austin (SR) and Johnson (JR). Otherwise, they have Embree, Rosario and Moutra coming off of strong seasons as FR, they redshirted another good recruit in Jerry Johnson who will be a FR next year, and they already have two WR recruits in this class (Toma and Marvray), who are both solid to UCLA. They even already have a commit from a top end WR recruit in Paul Richardson for 2010.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that Flournoy is more likely to see significant playing time sooner at USC under those circumstances than he would at UCLA right now. But like I said, that's probably the only position where that can even be suggested.

[Chief Rum]

I think it's a toss up on Carroll right now, BTW. He's in one of those spots where he really wants to go to both schools, and has different outside forces pulling him to each school, and who knows how it's going to end up.

I am going to say he goes to Cal, too, but that's because I am a pessimist when it comes to UCLA football.

I will say this--if Carroll does announce he is going to Cal before Flournoy makes any decisions, I think UCLA's chances of bringing over Flournoy increase significantly (maybe to 50-50, like you say).

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Carroll is 50-50 UCLA and Cal. 0% chance of him ending up at USC. I know how this will sound, but I refer you back to my balanced comments about Morrell Presley - I think he's horribly overrated. He's Deshaun Jackson without the outstanding top end speed. For a guy that's a class sprinter, he doesn't seem to bring any of that speed to the football field and his hands are stone. He'll end up at corner wherever he plays, IMO. He looked lost in the AA game and didn't give any effort either.

Flournoy on the other hand, I really want to keep. He's underrated and is probably faster on the field than Carroll ever will be, has good hands and good size. I'd call that one 60-40 USC, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him switch to UCLA on his official visit. He wants to play with Milton Knox, seems like another Pressley situation all over again.

I haven't seen enough to make a call on either one. I have seen the reports of Carroll being overrated, though.

And, yeah, on Flournoy, the Knox thing is a big wildcard.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

That's four juniors and a sophomore to be EF. And many of them are the type of talents who could very well leave early for the league.

Meanwhile, UCLA has just two guys who will be upperclassmen who are expected to contribute at WR next year in Austin (SR) and Johnson (JR). Otherwise, they have Embree, Rosario and Moutra coming off of strong seasons as FR, they redshirted another good recruit in Jerry Johnson who will be a FR next year, and they already have two WR recruits in this class (Toma and Marvray), who are both solid to UCLA. They even already have a commit from a top end WR recruit in Paul Richardson for 2010.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that Flournoy is more likely to see significant playing time sooner at USC under those circumstances than he would at UCLA right now. But like I said, that's probably the only position where that can even be suggested.

Good point. I forgot how young some of those UCLA receivers are.