02-08-2008, 12:05 PM | #501 |
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I'm not a fan of Sampson. I wish we had a different coach who could follow the rules.
That being said, cowboy up Illini fans. Stuff happens. |
02-08-2008, 01:50 PM | #502 |
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That's because you're from Illinois. Gordon did nothing wrong. A verbal commitment is non-binding and they know that. Weber can be pissed all he wants, but he should be man enough to shake someone's hand after a ballgame. It's a poor example to set as a head coach and mentor of college-age kids. |
02-08-2008, 01:51 PM | #503 | ||
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Bruce Weber is Classless. An article on yesterday's game from the CHICAGO Sun-times Quote:
You can say whatever you would like about Coach Sampson's violations. I was not impressed with them. He was punished, the program was punished and still maybe punished further, but Coach Sampson shakes everyone of his opponents hands, he praises his opponents after games. That's called sportsmanship. Coach Weber, runs off the court after barely shaking Sampson's hand, and defend's his players thuggery. Bruce Weber is classless. They are 0-2 against IU this year, and thats what they deserve
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02-08-2008, 02:15 PM | #504 |
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Johnny, I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm honestly not sure you understand the idea of "class" well enough to call anyone classless if your measuring stick is that a repeat cheater shaking hands with people he has cheated.
I hope that Indiana gets what they deserve for soiling themselves with Sampson. |
02-08-2008, 03:03 PM | #505 |
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While I agree that IU has soiled themselves with Sampson, I think you're being a bit pathetic.
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02-08-2008, 03:10 PM | #506 | |
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Eric Gordon didnt want to goto Illinois, which means Sampson cheated Bruce Weber... The kid CHANGED HIS MIND. Get over it.
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02-08-2008, 03:31 PM | #507 |
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02-08-2008, 03:33 PM | #508 |
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I didn't call Weber classless. Although he's been a big baby concerning the whole Eric Gordon saga.
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02-08-2008, 03:38 PM | #509 |
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Right, the other Indiana fan did. And I responded to that assertion. I would probably have taken a different tack if the claim had been "Weber could/should have handled this better".
We're all fans of programs, based on posting in this thread. We are all bringing some biases to the table. I get that, and I'm as guilty of it as the next guy. I'm far from the most fervent Weber fan in Block I, but I found that "classless" statement to border on ridiculous. He is widely regarded as one of the nice guys in the business and he is clean to a fault in running his program. |
02-08-2008, 03:48 PM | #510 |
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02-08-2008, 03:48 PM | #511 |
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the whole idea of praising spamson while calling Weber class-less is absrud
as for idkwti, he didn't just change his mind. he walked Illinois out into the middle of the desert, then he said peace and left on a chopper leaving the Illinois program lost and without water, mediforically speaking ofcourse Last edited by Dunleavy : 02-08-2008 at 03:48 PM. |
02-08-2008, 03:48 PM | #512 |
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Last season, IU's football team lost verbal commit Jeremy Finch to Florida on a last-second defection on signing day. He would have been the highest-rated commit in over a decade. It was upsetting, but fans haven't held onto it and obsessed over it. I realize it's a bit different because IU and Illinois are in the same conference, but at some point, you have to let go on stuff like this. It happens to everyone. IU was the stealer this time. At some point again, they will be the victim. The way the Illini fanbase has internalized the defection of a player who will be one and done is a bit amazing.
Go ahead and hate Sampson if you must. I don't like him either. I wish he was gone. And if sanctions are brought against IU, I will be in the camp that says we got what was coming to us for hiring Sampson in the first place. It was very disappointing to me when he was hired. It shows misplaced priorities. Say what you will about Bobby Knight (another guy who was not my favorite), he ran a clean program. Not so much with Sampson, and that has been a disappointment for me. |
02-08-2008, 03:56 PM | #513 |
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Kodos, Illinois has benefitted from several de-commits in football in this most recent class, two of them notably from Iowa.
That said, football and basketball have - in the past - held different standards regarding the continued recruitment of players after a verbal commitment. This is especially true within the conference, as demonstrated by the backlash by the conference commissioners and public statements of other Big 10 coaches at the time. Is it right or wrong that there are different standards? Beats me. In a head-in-the-sand moment I would tell you that I wish all players would honor their commitments, but that isn't the real world. Would it make more sense to you if they were lamenting the defection of a less talented player who would be around for four years instead of a one-and-done? I think many Illini fans find it convenient to blame the Gordon saga on Indiana and think about what could have been if you plugged in a go-to scorer at the shooting guard position on this years team. It is pretty easy to convince myself that the team would have 5 more wins, just by virtue of closing out games better than the currently assembled motley crew. |
02-08-2008, 04:00 PM | #514 |
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I just think a one-year player, no matter how talented he might be, can only do so much good for a team. I would take Calbert Cheaney over Eric Gordon any time.
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02-08-2008, 04:06 PM | #515 |
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Only problem with that logic is that you don't know when a Calbert Cheaney comes to the program that he is going to be that kind of four year performer. He is, most of the time, seen as a building block but not a program-builder when you are talking about a perennial Top 25 caliber team.
To pick between two fairly similarly hyped Illini players coming in, he could be Deron Williams (yeah, I know he only played 3) or Rich McBride (who was higher rated by most systems coming out of HS). |
02-08-2008, 04:07 PM | #516 |
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Eric Gordon and his family doesn't deserve your respect or pity. He could have easily told Illinois and Bruce Weber that he was having second thoughts and/or simply decomitted. He didn't, he lied to the coaching staff till the very end. It screwed the Illinois basketball program out of a few excellent recruits in the process. Of course, some fans took the thing too far, but again, don't feel sorry for the kid, he had the ribbing coming...
Nevertheless, it's all in the past now, and I'm glad to see the IU-UI rivalry heating up once again... I'll take four years of McCamey over a year of Gordon, although the Illini would most certainly be a tournament team with Gordon...sigh...at least the best recruiting classes the Illini program has ever seen are on the way...2009 can't get hear soon enough... Last edited by watravaler : 02-08-2008 at 04:09 PM. |
02-08-2008, 04:10 PM | #517 |
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LOL...I hope the Hoosiers don't look past them like i did. They are having a fantastic Big Ten season
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02-08-2008, 04:11 PM | #518 | |
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How serious can I take you when you lower yourself to name calling.
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02-08-2008, 04:14 PM | #519 |
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huh? who'd i call what?
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02-08-2008, 04:17 PM | #520 |
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IDKWTI = Illini fan code for Gordon. "I Don't Know Who That Is", referencing a Deron Williams quote when asked about Gordon switching over to Indiana.
His variation on "You're dead to me, Fredo". |
02-08-2008, 05:00 PM | #521 | |
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That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter. On a side note, everyone seems to think Gordon is one and done. He's certainly a talented player, but do 6'3" shooting guards usually get drafted after one year of college? |
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02-09-2008, 02:07 AM | #522 | |
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Sampson had issues running a legit program at Oklahoma, and has had other issues at IU besides Gordon. I'm not sure how anyone can look at him and think things are on the up and up now. I can't find what is specifically tripping in my memory about his Wazzu stint either, but I feel like there was stuff going on there, too. Maybe WSUCougar can help recall. I remember wondering how in the heck he got the Oklahoma job from what he did at Wazzu, and that has stuck with me through the years.
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02-09-2008, 02:11 AM | #523 | |
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Mayo is even shorter and supposedly gone. As is Rose, I believe. Not sure what everyone thinks of Bilas, but I think he is usually a pretty solid analyst, and he said Gordon, Rose, Mayo and Beasley are absolute locks to go pro from among the star frosh this season (and will probably be the top four picks). He cites as his evidence for smallish guards going pro, BTW, the continued success of AI, and the more recent small man additions of Ben Gordon and Deron Williams, among others, as reasons why small scoring guards in college are less afraid to go pro right away.
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02-09-2008, 02:21 AM | #524 | |
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Yeah, gotta agree with this. Sampson is no winner, but no one in Illinois--in particular Weber--looks good here either. Reminds me of the Oregon-UCLA game ten days ago, where the Oregon fans were heaping hate messages and personal insults at Oregon native and UO legacy Kevin Love because he chose to go to Westwood instead. A high school "friend" even gave out Love's cellphone number in advance, so he got tons of hate mail as text messages and voicemails (so much he had to pretty much put away the phone until he could change his number). It got so bad his dad, Stan Love, refuses to ever go back there--where he himself was a star--and the OU AD had to come out a few days later to apologize publically for the whole affair. And all that seems tame next to this IU-Illini situation. (BTW, Love let his play do the talking and dominated the game in a tough road win for the Bruins).
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02-09-2008, 08:03 AM | #525 | |
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Rose, Mayo, AI, and Williams are all point guards though. Eric Gordon is a pure shooting guard as far as I can tell. It's been years since I've seen any NBA games, but that used to be a pretty big distinction. I thought it would have been unprecedented for an undersized SG to be drafted as an underclassman, but I did a quick look at the past 6-7 NBA drafts, and found one - Louis Williams drafted by the 76'ers out of high school. It's very rare, but apparently possible. I'll have to defer to the experts, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he comes back for at least one more year. Last edited by Ryno : 02-09-2008 at 08:37 AM. |
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02-09-2008, 03:34 PM | #526 | |
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Ben Gordon is a pure shooting guard. Point is, they are all "scoring guards" rather than distributors, and they all were or will be drafted high, and all will likely succeed at the pro level.
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02-09-2008, 04:25 PM | #527 | |
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i'm not fimilier with the Love-UCLA-ORE trinagle but in the Illinois-Gordon deal there was and is a far amount of resentment against Gordon for leading Illinois on even after he had changed his mind, Sr. Gordon played a part in this as well (i.e. he's no Illinois hero past or present). after reading what you said happened during the game and the context of both i'm not sure how you can say that the Illini situation was way worse. i still can't believe how bad Illinois basketball got killed nationally by all the talking heads. during the UI vs IU game there was a pre game bump, a kinda of but not really hard foul, and a lot of booing. now in the stands one jackars threw some beeds and a few others yelled profanities but it seemed like they had a half dozen security and police around them handling the situation. no doubt it was a hostle enviroment but everyone knew it would be but there were no crimes against humanity here edit: Rum, i'm just venting b/c of all the t.v. heads over reacting per par Last edited by Dunleavy : 02-09-2008 at 04:26 PM. |
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02-09-2008, 04:58 PM | #528 | |
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Understood. It's not about assessing blame, but about the general tenor of the whole situation. There just seems to be a lot more ugliness to this than the Love-Oregon thing, and it has gone beyond insults to the physical, and wasn't just held up with fans but involved players and coaches as well. On every level, the Illinois-Indiana situation has exceeded the Love-Oregon except perhaps for the cellphone thing, and the Love-UO thing was significantly hostile.
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02-10-2008, 05:29 PM | #529 |
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UCLA/Washington heading for a good finish, Washington leads 59-53 with 5 minutes left.
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02-10-2008, 05:45 PM | #530 |
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I didn't realise Brady was fired at LSU? Wow. That's pretty harsh IMO. Any LSU fans on here got any thoughts?
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02-10-2008, 05:47 PM | #531 |
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I'm disappointed. I wanted him to stay there a long time. (iow they should've canned him ages ago)
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02-10-2008, 05:49 PM | #532 |
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UCLA goes down, again. I am just not sure how people can consistently say they are the best team in the country.
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02-10-2008, 05:50 PM | #533 |
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Big, big win for the UW today, knocking off UCLA 71-61. Huskies probably won't make even the NIT this year, but this is a big win for a program that has been struggling this season to live up to the expectations from a couple years back, and should prove to the team that they are capable of playing much better than they have of late.
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02-10-2008, 05:50 PM | #534 |
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Washington 71. UCLA 61. I only saw the last 5 minutes or so but there is no way UCLA should have lost this. Washington missed 6 straight free throws at one point and was 12-25 until the last 30 seconds or so. Down 6 with 45 seconds to go UCLA tried a 3/4 court inbounds pass into traffic after giving up a layup that resulted in a turnover, just didn't look good at all towards the end.
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02-10-2008, 05:51 PM | #535 | |
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There are no nights off in the PAC-10...well..maybe Oregon State...It will serve the Bruins well come tournament time... As an aside, Stanford is now tied for the PAC-10 lead! |
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02-10-2008, 05:56 PM | #536 |
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Can Clemson finally get over the hump and win a big ACC game? They've started well, but you know UNC is going to make a run.
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02-10-2008, 05:59 PM | #537 |
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02-10-2008, 06:02 PM | #538 | |
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That's a "you" problem. Not sure they are either (and certainly didn't show it today), but the reason you can't see it is because you don't like that we call you out on Memphis and that we beat you when it counted.
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02-10-2008, 06:03 PM | #539 | |
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I don't think UNC is going to make a run, honestly. Without Lawson, UNC had 7 turnovers in the first 4 minutes. Clemson with good size actually matches up better with UNC to exploit UNC's problems without a point guard. Ellington was cold vs Duke but he was also struggling to get open shots and forcing too much, again without anyone to run the offense, leaving only Hansbrough who without a floor leader gets ignored for 4-5 minutes at a time. I don't think there's a run coming. |
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02-10-2008, 06:06 PM | #540 | |
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The few UNC games I've seen this year remind me of the Orlando Magic games I've seen, where I spend 75% of the game wondering why they don't just give the damn ball to Howard/Hansbrough every time down the court. Must suck to be a bigman at times, especially when you've got scoring guards on the roster.
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02-10-2008, 06:07 PM | #541 | |
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UCLA's inconsistency is troubling, and makes me doubt this team can go as far as the past two, even if it has more overall talent than those teams. UDub had a great gameplan today and came to play, with heart and toughness. And Dentmon was just abusing Collison, which is saying something (prior to today, can't remember the last time that happened). Washington should have won it by even more--they were absolutely horrid at the line. As for UCLA, just an awful game. Collison was terrible today (and once again, it's extremely rare to say that). Shipp has been in a funk for a month now. Once again, missing Luc hurt us defensively. And most importantly--a consistent issue with this UCLA team--we are amazingly stagnant offensively in the half court offense when we're not hitting from outside. It's the big issue I have consistently seen with Howland's teams. I used to think it was becuase he couldn't find a quality big man. I now think it's because he just isn't a very good half-court offensive game coach.
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02-10-2008, 06:07 PM | #542 | |
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Yup, Stanford deserves to be there, too, with the way they have been playing. It will be a great matchup at Pauley.
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02-10-2008, 06:08 PM | #543 | |
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That lasted the whole game, really. There was never a point where UCLA looked good in this game. Kudos to UDub.
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02-10-2008, 06:09 PM | #544 | |
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I think Memphis and Kansas have the edge now. I would probably lean Kansas for now since they play in the Big 12, but what does it matter? It will all be decided in March.
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02-10-2008, 06:14 PM | #545 | |
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When they're healthy and have Lawson running the show, they're scoring so much in transition and finding the right person for the right shot so often(and so quickly), that its ok. But without the floor leader, they're playing about 95% of their possessions in a half court set and then you're exactly right, Hansbrough should touch the ball nearly every possession and kick it back out if he doesn't have great position/an advantage inside. For some reason that just doesn't happen enough. |
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02-10-2008, 06:16 PM | #546 |
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Collison is still fighting the effects of being sick and it showed. Worst game of his career IMO. DC is 3/23 his last two trips to UW and the team plays terrible there
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02-10-2008, 06:18 PM | #547 | |
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LOL. I know this is directed at me, but your ignorance is obviously showing. Karl...you should give all the UW's a nice gift for letting you guys back in the race |
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02-10-2008, 06:23 PM | #548 | |
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Oh I guess everyone answers that question differently then. When I answer the "who I think is best" its always in terms of who I think is set up the best to be the team I expect to be the favorite in the tournament. Memphis, until they prove otherwise, will never be my favorite. No team playing in a conference like CUSA will be IMO. It takes a 1990 UNLV level of talent to overcome the lack of intensity that the team needs to get through conference schedule. Memphis has good players, and a good coach, but if they make the final four, I'll be surprised, and if they win it all I'll be freaking stunned. Its not the BCS, everyone gets their chance, and if they can win 6 in a row in March, grats to them. But I'll believe it when I see it. And I think history is *strongly* on my side on this. |
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02-10-2008, 06:29 PM | #549 | |
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I think we've all learned that trying to predict March is folly. Don't get me wrong, I like our chances. But to expect the tourney to be anything more than a crapshoot, even if you're in the top 10ish teams, is folly. SI
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02-10-2008, 06:33 PM | #550 |
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Definately agree re: Memphis. I like their team and enjoy watching them play, but I don't see them being serious contenders. They could easily prove me wrong if they get hot in March, but right now I don't see it.
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