Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[molson]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

But I thought playoffs were bad? I love how we keep adding conference championship games, and now cross-conference championship games, but playoffs are a non-starter, as they slowly implement a playoff system...

I think most of the MWC and C-USA schools would be in favor of a playoff.

[dawgfan]

A little more background on the constantly changing conference landscape of college football:

http://azstarnet.com/sports/football...dc73e8203.html

I think Dennis Dodd, Gregg Doyel and others of their ilk need to review their college football history.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I don't think anyone is going to end up with a cross-conference title game here though. The easier route (which doesn't seem likely to need any rule changes by the NCAA) would be to merge into a 22-team conference in name only while maintaining separation of the divisions.

But MWC commish Craig Thompson said this (taken from the article I posted above):

Thompson said that the two leagues would be run independently in this scenario, but simply share a championship game.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

But MWC commish Craig Thompson said this (taken from the article I posted above):

Which I believe almost certainly means that he's talking out of his ass (or more likely trying to bullshit his way around using the word merger)

[Izulde]

Thompson and the MWC brass aren't known for their brightness. See the crappy Mountain West network

[General Mike]

Even if that CUSA-MWC thing goes, down, the Big East/Big 12 merger conference is going to take a team or 2 from those groups. Not sure who, and depends on how many teams they want to go to.

[General Mike]

Michael Tranghese, Jack Swarbrick, John Marinatto Sound Off

Good blog article for any Big East affiliated fans to read.

[timmynausea]

So now according to SEC Associate Commissioner Charles Bloom, Missouri does not have an SEC invite.

SEC spokesman: League did not extend bid to Missouri

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

So now according to SEC Associate Commissioner Charles Bloom, Missouri does not have an SEC invite.

SEC spokesman: League did not extend bid to Missouri

Of course, because conferences don't invite teams.

[Ksyrup]

@NewsOKSports: Source: If Big 12 is to survive, Oklahoma wants Dan Beebe out as commissioner

Daily Oklahoman reporting OU willing to stay in Big 12 with some demands, including a new B12 commissioner

[Logan]

That sounds like some bullshit.

[Ksyrup]

I don't know, but what is fact - the fake Dan Beebe is killing twitter right now.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Of course, because conferences don't invite teams.

Exactly. You'd think most would have learned from the A&M situation at this point. Deny, deny, deny until you announce.

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

@NewsOKSports: Source: If Big 12 is to survive, Oklahoma wants Dan Beebe out as commissioner

Daily Oklahoman reporting OU willing to stay in Big 12 with some demands, including a new B12 commissioner

This is all posturing by OU. They're looking to lay the blame elsewhere when they walk out the door. They can say their demands weren't met, so they had no choice.

PowerMizzou.com reporting similar info to KC Star, though this report includes additional info from multiple Rivals sites (A&M, WVU, and OU).

PowerMizzou.com - If Mizzou moves, all signs point south

I'd also note a hint of caution. This is the exact same scenario Mizzou was in one year ago and it blew up in their face.

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

@NewsOKSports: Source: If Big 12 is to survive, Oklahoma wants Dan Beebe out as commissioner

Daily Oklahoman reporting OU willing to stay in Big 12 with some demands, including a new B12 commissioner

I think everybody in the Big 12 minus Dodds could get behind this. I also agree the Big 12 needs to be blown up and re-configured otherwise it's not worth salvaging. I still believe it's probably too late though given all of the hurt feelings in recent weeks.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I don't know, but what is fact - the fake Dan Beebe is killing twitter right now.

@DanBeebe NO ONE I REPEAT NO ONE PUTS BEEBE IN A CORNER

[timmynausea]

Chip Brown now reporting that Missouri's chancellor is leading a last second charge to save the Big 12.

There is a serious effort being made, led by Missouri chancellor Brady Deaton, to try to save the Big 12, according to a high-placed administrator at a Big 12 school.

It will either be the Big 12's Hail Mary or its last gasp.

The administrator said Deaton, the head of the Big 12's five-member expansion committee, is trying to get everyone back to the table to try to see if the Big 12 can work out its differences.

A regent at another Big 12 school said he he was optimistic the conference could heal its problems.

Oklahoma State mega booster Boone Pickens was quoted by The Oklahoman saying Pickens had called Texas Gov. Rick Perry, a former yell leader at Texas A&M, to try and fix the Big 12, including keeping the Aggies from bolting for the Southeastern Conference.

But Texas A&M spokesman Jason Cook released a statement to Orangebloods.com that said, "Texas A&M has made our intentions perfectly clear. We do not intend to be a member of the Big 12 past this season."

The question then becomes if Texas, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State can live together in a nine-member Big 12?

And The Oklahoman quotes an unnamed, high-ranking Big 12 source as saying Oklahoma has a list of demands to hold the Big 12 together, including replacing commissioner Dan Beebe and for Texas to make some concessions as it pertains to the Longhorn Network.

The newspaper quotes sources saying OU was angered by ESPN getting a waiver from Fox to show a second game on the Longhorn Network and surprising the rest of the conference with the news.

The sources also tell the Oklahoman OU was upset when ESPN vowed to show high school highlights even after it was deemed impermissible by the NCAA to show high school games on LHN.

In general, the sources tell The Oklahoman, the Big 12 has a big trust problem that has to be rectified.

The Oklahoman also quotes a source saying Dan Beebe only serves one school - Texas.

The newspaper reports, ironically, Texas supported Jack Swarbrick as commissioner of the Big 12 and OU supported Beebe when Beebe was awarded the job as leader of the Big 12. Swarbrick is now the athletic director at Notre Dame.

Sources across the Big 12 confirm to Orangebloods.com that there is definitely a movement to try to save the Big 12 led by Deaton that may involve some radical proposals.

We will have more details as they become available.

A high-ranking official at a Big 12 school said, "The Big 12 is going to stay intact except for Texas A&M."

We will see if that's wishful thinking and the Big 12's Hail Mary - one year after a similar rescue attempt was successful - or if it's the Big 12's last gasp.

Stay tuned.

[Chubby]

I'm sure they'd love to save the Big 12, they can't get in anywhere else

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

I guess it depends on how you look at it. First, if the SEC goes to 16 as expected, who else are they going to get for the East division?

Even if they stay at 14 (with Missouri as #14), that leaves WVU as probably the best football program in the merged Big 12 and Big East. So long as those 2 combined can keep 1 of their 2 BCS autobids, how is it worse than the Big East right now? I mean, Syracuse and Pitt combined had a losing conference record over the history of the Big East. Depending on the exact lineup, WVU and TCU would likely be the football powers, and WVU, Louisville and Kansas also give you 3 top 20 basketball teams.

I guess it plays out like a disappointment compared to joining the SEC or ACC, of course, but I don't really see it as a drop off from their current position. If they lose the BCS bid, on the other hand, that changes.

Team quality doesn't mean anything. The SEC will be fine with or without their teams. The issue is revenue. WVU doesn't bring in any worthwhile market. Syracuse has ties to the NYC market and Pitt has Pittsburgh and some of eastern Ohio. Out of the football teams WVU likely brings the least dollars wise.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

Chip Brown now reporting that Missouri's chancellor is leading a last second charge to save the Big 12.

Just Chip playing the cards for Dodds again. This is coming straight from UT. They want to paint Deaton in the same form as Pitt's president, who was the head of the Big East Committee. Deaton is leading a big charge to save a conference.......wait, Mizzou just left without letting anyone know they were considering it???????? Mizzou is the reason this conference folded!!!!!!

No different than the OU demand of equal revenue sharing to save the conference or the Pickins demand that Gov. Perry stop A&M from leaving. All posturing.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Columbia (MO) Tribune newspaper reporting that Mizzou's Board of Curators has called a meeting for Thursday morning at the University. Local press has been invited to the meeting.

[SnDvls]

Does OU have the votes to get into the Pac-12 with OkSt? That seems to be the hang up now. ASU and uofa don't want to lose the California footprint for recruiting and Colorado doesn't want to go back to a modified BigXII group. Utah could be the deciding vote in this all. The WA, Cali & Oregon schools would vote yes if it was an East-West split for sure. The pods might make them (WA and OR) vote no as they then lose Cali access....too many questions out there on this now.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Does OU have the votes to get into the Pac-12 with OkSt? That seems to be the hang up now. ASU and uofa don't want to lose the California footprint for recruiting and Colorado doesn't want to go back to a modified BigXII group. Utah could be the deciding vote in this all. The WA, Cali & Oregon schools would vote yes if it was an East-West split for sure. The pods might make them (WA and OR) vote no as they then lose Cali access....too many questions out there on this now.

Last story I saw was that the powers that be told Utah and CU to stay in line and that the B12 teams will receive a unanimous vote if it comes to pass.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola.....Emergency executive meeting announcement for Mizzou..........

http://www.umsystem.edu/ums/news/pub..._public_notice

[molson]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Team quality doesn't
mean anything. The SEC will be fine with or without their teams. The issue is revenue. WVU doesn't bring in any worthwhile market. Syracuse has ties to the NYC market and Pitt has Pittsburgh and some of eastern Ohio. Out of the football teams WVU likely brings the least dollars wise.

I can remember many times as a syracuse fan cuse being passed over for a lower-in-the-standings wvu team because wvu had better fans and "traveled well". I'm also positive that wvu games have more eyeballs on them in wv than syracuse does for their games in nyc. So wvu suddenly being portrayed as this black hole is little surreal. Of course, two years ago rutgers was the hottest commodity out there and nobody wanted syracuse, so I don't know what to believe.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Team quality doesn't mean anything. The SEC will be fine with or without their teams. The issue is revenue. WVU doesn't bring in any worthwhile market. Syracuse has ties to the NYC market and Pitt has Pittsburgh and some of eastern Ohio. Out of the football teams WVU likely brings the least dollars wise.

My team quality comments were in regard to how the new conference might stack up.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

So wvu suddenly being portrayed as this black hole is little surreal.

It's pretty ridiculous really ... and I'm certainly no fan of WVU.

Want to know how meaningful a big market is to a conference overall, look no further than the Atlanta numbers I posted.

There were less than 6,000 people in the entire market, a top 10 market no less, actually watching the "ACC Game of the Week" for crying out loud. And don't anybody try to hand me the "but Atlanta is really an SEC market instead of an ACC market" crap as a way to make some of these others seem attractive. That's no different than the case in NYC which is an NFL market not a college football market.

The benefit is negligible ... unless of course you want to convince me that major buyers are looking at HH potential rather than actual ratings. As dim a view of many ad buyers as I have, few of them are actually that fucking stupid.

[Logan]

So if that's the case that the market doesn't matter...what's the angle? Is WVU being blackballed?

Are we talking carrying rates for a potential ACC network? I know with the BTN, they can charge a higher rate in states that hold a member of the conference.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It's pretty ridiculous really ... and I'm certainly no fan of WVU.

Want to know how meaningful a big market is to a conference overall, look no further than the Atlanta numbers I posted.

There were less than 6,000 people in the entire market, a top 10 market no less, actually watching the "ACC Game of the Week" for crying out loud. And don't anybody try to hand me the "but Atlanta is really an SEC market instead of an ACC market" crap as a way to make some of these others seem attractive. That's no different than the case in NYC which is an NFL market not a college football market.

The benefit is negligible ... unless of course you want to convince me that major buyers are looking at HH potential rather than actual ratings. As dim a view of many ad buyers as I have, few of them are actually that fucking stupid.

I don't think current ratings mean as much as potential for the conferences. I can easily see the potential of Syracuse grabbing some of the NYC network being very attractive. It may not happen, but I've never seen a college president that wasn't convinced they could achieve unheard of levels of growth at whatever they were attempting to do.

[General Mike]

It's over, everyone is just looking for excuses so they aren't the bad guy. No one wants to be the Emperor, well except for John Swofford.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I don't think current ratings mean as much as potential for the conferences. I can easily see the potential of Syracuse grabbing some of the NYC network being very attractive. It may not happen, but I've never seen a college president that wasn't convinced they could achieve unheard of levels of growth at whatever they were attempting to do.

Yep. If Syracuse did make a run at the national title in football you are talking millions and millions of potential bandwagon fans. Where else even comes close? Maybe LA?

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I don't think current ratings mean as much as potential for the conferences. I can easily see the potential of Syracuse grabbing some of the NYC network being very attractive. It may not happen, but I've never seen a college president that wasn't convinced they could achieve unheard of levels of growth at whatever they were attempting to do.

If that were true, wouldn't the Big East have had huge contracts to begin with?

I get the rationale for conference network revenue, but not as much for Syracuse or whomever suddenly grabbing NYC.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by General Mike

It's over, everyone is just looking for excuses so they aren't the bad guy. No one wants to be the Emperor, well except for John Swofford.

The SEC's obsession with avoiding a lawsuit in all of this is kind of weird in hindsight. The Big East lawsuit on the ACC got them $5 million and some home games vs. ACC schools in a settlement. Not exactly something designed to keep you from doing it again, obviously.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by bronconick

The SEC's obsession with avoiding a lawsuit in all of this is kind of weird in hindsight. The Big East lawsuit on the ACC got them $5 million and some home games vs. ACC schools in a settlement. Not exactly something designed to keep you from doing it again, obviously.

The Big East won the case but stayed together, so they couldn't really demonstrate damages. I've wondered if schools like Baylor might be able to win more in a suit depending on where they wind up.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Logan

So if that's the case that the market doesn't matter...what's the angle? Is WVU being blackballed?

You aren't dealing with smart, savvy businessmen. These aren't NFL execs negotiating deals.

You're talking about a an incredibly popular sport that has managed to find a way to have 2/3rds of their teams lose money on a postseason. That takes a level of incompetency that is unmatched in any sport or league.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

The Big East won the case but stayed together, so they couldn't really demonstrate damages. I've wondered if schools like Baylor might be able to win more in a suit depending on where they wind up.

Sure they could. There were clear monetary damages on the TV deal, long and short term.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Sure they could. There were clear monetary damages on the TV deal, long and short term.

Not as much as Baylor can if they go from the Big 12 deal they signed last summer to Conference USA.

[miked]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

There were less than 6,000 people in the entire market, a top 10 market no less, actually watching the "ACC Game of the Week" for crying out loud. And don't anybody try to hand me the "but Atlanta is really an SEC market instead of an ACC market" crap as a way to make some of these others seem attractive. That's no different than the case in NYC which is an NFL market not a college football market.

Just so happens that the game of the week was a shitty Duke team playing a shitty BC team that nobody cares about. If the Clemson-Auburn or GT-KSU game were on there, it would have been much different...or the FSU-OU game. Once we start seeing good matchups like VT-GT and other ones that people care about, nobody is turning on the TV to see NCSU take on UMD.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

You aren't dealing with smart, savvy businessmen. These aren't NFL execs negotiating deals.

You're talking about a an incredibly popular sport that has managed to find a way to have 2/3rds of their teams lose money on a postseason. That takes a level of incompetency that is unmatched in any sport or league.

Leave it to you to cherry-pick a number to try to make the sport look bad.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Does OU have the votes to get into the Pac-12 with OkSt? That seems to be the hang up now. ASU and uofa don't want to lose the California footprint for recruiting and Colorado doesn't want to go back to a modified BigXII group. Utah could be the deciding vote in this all. The WA, Cali & Oregon schools would vote yes if it was an East-West split for sure. The pods might make them (WA and OR) vote no as they then lose Cali access....too many questions out there on this now.

Jon Wilner has been all over the expansion stories the last couple of years and has been damn accurate. Not sure if he's getting directly fed by Larry Scott or not, but I put a lot of stock in his reporting on this matter.

Wilner claims that the Pac will accept the Oklahoma schools if they apply, and that's with or without Texas.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Both Big East and Pac-XX could move quickly. Heard on local KC radio that Pac-XX has a meeting scheduled for Friday, which could include a vote on new members.

AP sources: Big East meets, Pac-12 close to voting - College Football - MiamiHerald.com

[molson]

Originally Posted by panerd

Yep. If Syracuse did make a run at the national title in football you are talking millions and millions of potential bandwagon fans. Where else even comes close? Maybe LA?

And yet the Pac-10 wants Oklahoma and not Houston or SMU. And yet the Big 10 wanted Nebraska and not Syracuse or Rutgers.

It's money that ultimately matters, not market size. Market size can play a small role in that money analysis, but in the case of NYC and Boston, two cities that could care less about college sports, it really doesn't matter that much. Syracuse, Boston College, Rutgers, are not big deals, and for that matter, neither are Wagner, Northeastern, Hofstra, Albany, Columbia, Fordham, Harvard and Holy Cross, etc. These would all be major players if market size was critical, and they're not, none of are going to bring huge revenue to a conference regardless of what market they happen to be in. Oklahoma St, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Utah, Colorado, Notre Dame and many others are all worth more.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Report confirming that tentative agreement between SEC and Mizzou has been reached with expected approval from schools.

Tentative plan for Mizzou to join SEC, Auburn would move to East, sources say | al.com

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by molson

And yet the Pac-10 wants Oklahoma and not Houston or SMU. And yet the Big 10 wanted Nebraska and not Syracuse or Rutgers.

It's money that ultimately matters, not market size. Market size can play a small role in that money analysis, but in the case of NYC and Boston, two cities that could care less about college sports, it really doesn't matter that much. Syracuse, Boston College, Rutgers, are not big deals, and for that matter, neither are Wagner, Northeastern, Hofstra, Albany, Columbia, Fordham, Harvard and Holy Cross, etc. These would all be major players if market size was critical, and they're not, none of are going to bring huge revenue to a conference regardless of what market they happen to be in. Oklahoma St, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Utah, Colorado, Notre Dame and many others are all worth more.

My biggest culture change moving to Massachusetts from the south was the complete lack of acknowledgement of any college sports.

Saturdays in the fall here = New England Patriot pre-game warm up party.


I see Patriots/Red Sox/Celtics/Bruins licence plates and bumper stickers all over the place, every day I go out. I can't even begin to tell you the last time I saw a single Boston College bumper sticker.

[timmynausea]

New York Times writer Pete Thamel tweets:

As for WVU, they haven't been "rejected" by SEC. They could be in play if SEC went to 16 (not a lot of options). No chance at ACC, however.

He also mentioned that ECU has applied to the Big East.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

If that were true, wouldn't the Big East have had huge contracts to begin with?

I get the rationale for conference network revenue, but not as much for Syracuse or whomever suddenly grabbing NYC.

Bingo. Syracuse just doesn't give you the NYC market. Rutgers is better (remember the Empire State Building being scarlet red), but don't expect half of the city to watch college football or anything.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Both Big East and Pac-XX could move quickly. Heard on local KC radio that Pac-XX has a meeting scheduled for Friday, which could include a vote on new members.

AP sources: Big East meets, Pac-12 close to voting - College Football - MiamiHerald.com

Something I didn't realize about the Big East meeting tonight - the basketball schools and commish aren't invited. Also UConn's president isn't going to be there. Not sure about UConn's AD.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Leave it to you to cherry-pick a number to try to make the sport look bad.

Cherry pick a number? 2/3rds of the teams lose money on the postseason. Some teams in BCS games lose millions. I'm sorry, but if you're trying to find smart business logic behind these guys, you're looking in the wrong place. They aren't businessmen, just look at their backgrounds. They get taken to the woodshed on a consistent basis.

The only guy with a business background is the one shitting on everyone else.

[Buccaneer]

Part of Coach JB's interview

Syracuse University basketball coach Jim Boeheim doesn’t usually mince his words.

On Tuesday, the Hall of Fame coach talked about Syracuse’s impending departure from the Big East. He pointed a finger at Notre Dame’s president, who despite the fact that Notre Dame has its own television contract and isn’t a member of the Big East’s football conference, advocated walking away from a $1 billion deal with ESPN earlier this week.

Boeheim said he had no plans for retirement and would definitely be around long enough to guide his alma mater into the Atlantic Coast Conference.

And in his most pointed words, Boeheim chastised Big East commissioner
John Marinatto, who told the New York Times that the Big East would force Syracuse and Pittsburgh to remain in the league for 27 months, according to the league’s by-laws.

“I think that speaks to the problem in our league,’’ Boeheim said. “That’s foolish. He should be thinking about how he can save the Big East, not keep Syracuse and Pitt hostage. The best way to save the Big East is to get out and get a couple teams to come in. Because we’re gone. He needs to concentrate on getting somebody to replace us.’’

Boeheim continued to question Marinatto’s leadership. Marinatto took over as Big East commissioner in when Mike Tranghese retired in 2009.

“That’s the problem with the Big East right now,’’ Boeheim said. “Dave Gavitt and Mike Tranghese are not running the Big East right now. That comment. He should be working on strengthening the Big East. What if two or three other teams leave this week? Then what is he going to do? I think if that happens he should either get the non-football schools in a league or else he’s got to get five or six football schools in a hurry.

“It would be silly to play another year in the Big East.’’

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Bingo. Syracuse just doesn't give you the NYC market. Rutgers is better (remember the Empire State Building being scarlet red), but don't expect half of the city to watch college football or anything.

Hell, half of the city won't watch Yankee games. The mass of humanity makes up for that in some respect there, obviously, but people forget how diverse NYC is. It's not like a southern town where the streets are empty during a big college football game. NYC has millions of people who couldn't tell you what a first down was, or even say that phrase in English.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Proposed new SEC alignment.......