2009 MLB Regular Season Thread

[lordscarlet]

Fantastic game to close out the home games for Washington this year. It was a thrill to be at.

[miked]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

There's no legit everyday 3B at this point, the rotation declines sharply when they salary dump Vazquez (because it'd take a miracle to find a buyer for Lowe or Kawakami at their current contract), the OF is still a work in progress (or regress) at this point, McCann disappointed although overuse in the 2nd half may have contributed to that, and it's unlikely that Prado, Infante, and Diaz all three equal or better their outputs this year. And I have little doubt that LaRoche will end up resigned at too large a price after a good run and turn back into the pillar of inconsistency that's become his hallmark.

I see very little reason to expect them to be better, or even as good, next year than they were this year. Granted, I fully expected a 100 loss season in '09 so they overachieved and that's great. But that doesn't make them any better than mediocre in a league filled with mediocrity at best.

This post demonstrates clearly why Atlanta has trouble drawing fans, as there is little actual intelligent thought in this post. Maybe you are still living in the 80s, but a pitcher making 11M who puts up an ERA+ of 145 and struck out 230+ with a 1.03 WHIP is not a salary dump. If they trade him, it's going to be to pick up a big bat since what they really lacked was power (21 HR leads the team??? for real??). It also depends on Hudson, because if they decide not to pick up Hudson's option (12M) it obviously leaves money free. Now Kawakami is a bit overpriced at 8M or so, but he also posted a sub-4 ERA (not bad for a projected 4th starter who struggled early). Clearly can hold down the back end of the rotation. And if being "weak" behind Vazquez means having Jurrjens (ERA+ of 160) and Hanson (ERA+ of 140), and Lowe, a guy who historically has been above average, then I don't know what your expectations are.

McCann's OPS of .817 after the break was disappointing, but there's nothing to suggest he's a bad player, I'm certain there are plenty of teams that will take his 120 OPS+ for a catcher. And historically, there is nothing to suggest that Diaz and Prado will be worse next season. In fact, Prado's OPS+ of 113 this season is around the same as his part time duty last season of 120 and he actually had nearly 500 PA too. And Infante is a bench player who his .301 this year and .293 last year, but of course as a bench player he may not be so consistent so who knows.

The only thing I agree with is that the OF is shitty. McClouth is average, Anderson stinks, and Diaz is above average but could always regress. The problem with the Braves is not that they were playing above their heads, it's that they played horribly for the first half because Cox gave significant playing time to people like Anderson, Schaeffer, Francoeur, and Johnson, who were clearly not deserving of it. And the Braves bench stunk worse than poo. Norton, Blanco, Gorecki, Diory Hernandez, these guys were beyond terrible. It got to the point where Javier was being used as a PH just to bunt.

I understand the vitriol and hyperbole are your schtick, but at least you can pay attention to the team you are bashing so your arguments hold water.

[Big Fo]

I'm feeling good about Atlanta's chances in 2010. I hope they let Hudson go and keep Vazquez unless they get blown away by a trade offer for Javy. I wonder how reasonable LaRoche's contract demands will be though. Freeman struggled in AA during the second half so if they don't get LaRoche they'll need a stopgap and the rest of the free agent class looks weak at that position.

[Balldog]

Wow big relief from the Tigers pen to get out of a bases loaded jam, then the Twins mishandle a routine pop up to start the bottom of the 7th.

Tigers must capitalize with the middle of the order coming up!

[MizzouRah]

Carpenter with 6 RBI's!

[miked]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

I'm feeling good about Atlanta's chances in 2010. I hope they let Hudson go and keep Vazquez unless they get blown away by a trade offer for Javy. I wonder how reasonable LaRoche's contract demands will be though. Freeman struggled in AA during the second half so if they don't get LaRoche they'll need a stopgap and the rest of the free agent class looks weak at that position.

I'm still mad at the Bravos for passing on Dunn and thinking Anderson would be a solid replacement. Dunn's defense, while terrible, could have been partly negated by putting him at 1B and allowed them to pursue a guy like Abreu who went unsigned for a while. Obviously, they were seeing the Anderson of 6 years ago or thought the team would stink anyway.

There are some decent FAs this offseason like Holliday, Ankiel (meh), Bay, Beltre, Delgado (double meh), but clearly these are upgrades for the Braves. They have nothing much in AAA and not too much power in AA as well. They did manage to be 6th in the NL in runs without a big bopper, but it would be nice to have an actual threat batting 3rd or 4th rather than above average guys that are there now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miked

This post demonstrates clearly why Atlanta has trouble drawing fans, as there is little actual intelligent thought in this post.

Well fuck you too.

Maybe you are still living in the 80s, but a pitcher making 11M who puts up an ERA+ of 145 and struck out 230+ with a 1.03 WHIP is not a salary dump. If they trade him, it's going to be to pick up a big bat since what they really lacked was power (21 HR leads the team??? for real??).

If it was to get a big bat, that might be a different situation, but that doesn't seem nearly as likely as removing the 2nd most viable starter they've got in order to avoid eating other bad contracts & getting whatever the hell they can in return. Every GM in MLB knows, since there's been very little secret made of it, that the Braves are going to move a pitcher for strictly financial reasons. Who has the upper hand in that scenario, it damned sure isn't the Braves. For me, that's salary instead of improving the team driving roster moves, whether you choose to call that a salary dump or use some other phrase.

It also depends on Hudson, because if they decide not to pick up Hudson's option (12M) it obviously leaves money free.

The general expectation is that they'll keep Hudson & move Vazquez because, well, he's Hudson & has more local connections and has indicated he would consider some sort of renegotiation with a hometown type discount. Comments about them moving Vazquez are rather obviously based on that expectation, but hey they could surprise me & do the right thing here and failing significant renegotiation (or finding someone to take the $13m/2 yrs left on Kawakami) move the guy with arm problems that has performed below expectations since his arrival ... but I don't count on any positive surprises with this organization at this point.

Now Kawakami is a bit overpriced at 8M or so, but he also posted a sub-4 ERA (not bad for a projected 4th starter who struggled early). Clearly can hold down the back end of the rotation. And if being "weak" behind Vazquez means having Jurrjens (ERA+ of 160) and Hanson (ERA+ of 140), and Lowe, a guy who historically has been above average, then I don't know what your expectations are.

The baseball move is to either decline Hudson's option or ultimately do something with Kawakami - bullpen, deal, buy him out (which I think he'd negotiate as he was clearly unhappy about being dropped from the rotation from his comment through the translator after the move was made). The salary driven move is to move Vazquez, whose clearly better than either of them at this point.

Again, if you prefer a phrase like "financially motivated move" instead of "salary dump" I'm happy to change the phrasing for you, but I was essentially using them interchangeably but I'll concede it might not be the most apt description. But whatever that deal is, giving up your clear cut #1 or #2 guy in a rotation that otherwise has one legit top guy (Jurjens, who I think we can say that about at this point) followed by a guy who has looked great but still doesn't have a full season under his belt, a guy who is coming off a major disappointment in Lowe, a guy with a TJ surgery in his resume & whose best season with Atlanta in five years was not as good as what Vazquez just put up, and a guy that you could reasonably say the jury is still out about in Kenshin.

McCann's OPS of .817 after the break was disappointing, but there's nothing to suggest he's a bad player

Nor have I suggested he's a bad player, just that he didn't show signs of continued progress but rather appears to have plateaued. He's still a borderline all-star guy, but I really believed going into the year that he was on the verge of becoming a premier player in MLB as opposed to a borderline/occasional all-star. Sue me for actually being optimistic about a guy I guess.

And historically, there is nothing to suggest that Diaz and Prado will be worse next season.

I already revisited & largely withdrew my comment about Prado, so that's been covered. With Diaz, I'd love to believe that he's capable of his second half production over a full season, but it's still an unproven at this point simply because he's never had been/gotten the opportunity to do it. I don't know how anyone could put the odds of that success over 500 AB's at better than 50-50.

Meanwhile we seem to be largely in agreement about the OF situation so I'm not sure what ground there is for us to cover there.

In short, I see nothing I've said (absent the level of initial concern I expressed about Prado which I withdrew already), that doesn't have a perfectly reasonable rationale behind it. If you can deal with that great, if not, feel free to refer to my opening reply makes not one bit of difference to me either way.

[Butter]

So, there were some interesting shenanigans in the Cards-Reds game last night... I am too lazy to link to it, but the jist is that John Smoltz and Dave Duncan claim that Bronson Arroyo was doctoring the balls and/or that the balls were doctored in general and THAT is why Smoltz walked 5 and gave up 6 runs in 3 innings last night... Not only that, but Smoltz glared into the Reds dugout when leadoff hitter Drew Stubbs stole second with a 6-0 lead in the 3rd inning.

Dusty Baker, idiot though he may be, did yell out to Smoltz that it's the "3rd fucking inning" (I can read lips).

Need something interesting to happen to make these last few Reds games entertaining, aside from the fact that they have been ON FIRE lately.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by miked

This post demonstrates clearly why Atlanta has trouble drawing fans, as there is little actual intelligent thought in this post. Maybe you are still living in the 80s, but a pitcher making 11M who puts up an ERA+ of 145 and struck out 230+ with a 1.03 WHIP is not a salary dump. If they trade him, it's going to be to pick up a big bat since what they really lacked was power (21 HR leads the team??? for real??). It also depends on Hudson, because if they decide not to pick up Hudson's option (12M) it obviously leaves money free. Now Kawakami is a bit overpriced at 8M or so, but he also posted a sub-4 ERA (not bad for a projected 4th starter who struggled early). Clearly can hold down the back end of the rotation. And if being "weak" behind Vazquez means having Jurrjens (ERA+ of 160) and Hanson (ERA+ of 140), and Lowe, a guy who historically has been above average, then I don't know what your expectations are.

McCann's OPS of .817 after the break was disappointing, but there's nothing to suggest he's a bad player, I'm certain there are plenty of teams that will take his 120 OPS+ for a catcher. And historically, there is nothing to suggest that Diaz and Prado will be worse next season. In fact, Prado's OPS+ of 113 this season is around the same as his part time duty last season of 120 and he actually had nearly 500 PA too. And Infante is a bench player who his .301 this year and .293 last year, but of course as a bench player he may not be so consistent so who knows.

The only thing I agree with is that the OF is shitty. McClouth is average, Anderson stinks, and Diaz is above average but could always regress. The problem with the Braves is not that they were playing above their heads, it's that they played horribly for the first half because Cox gave significant playing time to people like Anderson, Schaeffer, Francoeur, and Johnson, who were clearly not deserving of it. And the Braves bench stunk worse than poo. Norton, Blanco, Gorecki, Diory Hernandez, these guys were beyond terrible. It got to the point where Javier was being used as a PH just to bunt.

I understand the vitriol and hyperbole are your schtick, but at least you can pay attention to the team you are bashing so your arguments hold water.

I heart you.

[RomaGoth]

Way to go Tigers!!! Assuming they win this division, they will need a ridiculous effort from their pitching to have a chance against the Yankees. This team is just so up and down.

[RedKingGold]

Here's an interesting scenario:

If the Rockies (who clinched their playoff spot today), sweep the Dodgers over the weekend, the Phillies only win one of their next four and the Cards win only 1 of their last three, then Colorado will have the NL's best record and home-field until the World Series.

[Mr. Sparkle]

I would not want to play the Rockies in the playoffs. I would love to play the Dodgers, however.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Dola:

But since I'm a Giants fan, the only thing they'll be playing is golf.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Reports coming out that Sabean and Bochy will both be offered extensions. Sigh.

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Way to go Tigers!!! Assuming they win this division, they will need a ridiculous effort from their pitching to have a chance against the Yankees. This team is just so up and down.

I just don't get how the Twins can have 4 errors and walk 6, yet we only score 3 runs.

BTW Granderson made another bone headed play in the OF today, trying to throw a runner out at third when he had no shot of getting him...allowing the runner on first to advance to second.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Reports coming out that Sabean and Bochy will both be offered extensions. Sigh.

I'm having a sad. I'm actually less concerned with Sabean coming back as I am with Bochy returning. He's shown absolutely nothing this year that he's the right manager for a team that should be getting younger next season and beyond. Young position players not named Eugenio Velez are probably sobbing uncontrollably as we speak.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Balldog

I just don't get how the Twins can have 4 errors and walk 6, yet we only score 3 runs.

Me neither. It's like every other game they play like they want to win.

Originally Posted by Balldog

BTW Granderson made another bone headed play in the OF today, trying to throw a runner out at third when he had no shot of getting him...allowing the runner on first to advance to second.

I think this was the least of their problems. Losing by 5 runs, at home, in a potential division clinching game is unacceptable. I wonder if any fingers should be pointed at Leyland?

In fact, losing 3 of 4 at home in a series this important has to put at least some of the blame on the manager, does it not?

[stevew]

Pirates and Cubs get rained out today. Looks like god only wanted us to play 161 this year. I guess the Pirates go into this weekend needing only to win 1 of 3 to avoid 100 loses.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

I'm having a sad. I'm actually less concerned with Sabean coming back as I am with Bochy returning. He's shown absolutely nothing this year that he's the right manager for a team that should be getting younger next season and beyond. Young position players not named Eugenio Velez are probably sobbing uncontrollably as we speak.

I agree wholeheartedly. While I have no major qualms (plenty of minor ones though) about Sabean staying...I absolutely hate Bruce Bochy's managing style with a passion. Let's just take a look at the way the Giants' skipper has handled the team's best position player prospect in decades:

• C Buster Posey is called up September 2nd, reportedly because of Bengie Molina's lingering Quadriceps injury, thus starting Posey's arbitration clock ticking.
• Bengie Molina starts September 2nd.
• For the next month (up to and including today), Giants Catchers totalled 105 Plate Appearances.
• Buster Posey has seen 10 or those plate appearances.
• Eli Whiteside (turns 30 this month, hitting .228 with an OBP of .269 and an OPS of .611 this year), over the same span had 31 plate appearances.
• The reason for Whiteside to be in the lineup is obviously his bat, which has been incredibly hot in September - .233/.281/.400.

This is just a microcosm of the managerial idiocy of Bochy. Bengie Molina hitting 4th all year, his inability to give ANY young player (not named Eugenio Velez) a consistent shot, his horrid sticking with veterans who are terrible...ugh. I'm stealing from my favorite blog (www.mccoveychronicles.com), but...

If Bochy is afraid to play the young players because they may turn out to be the worst hitters in the league...GUESS WHAT? THEY'RE REPLACING SOME OF THE WORST HITTERS IN THE LEAGUE.

Edit - In defense of Whiteside, he reportedly calls a great game and the pitchers supposedly love him. But really...if that is what is keeping your star prospect on the bench, give me a break.

[stevew]

That Freddy Sanchez trade looks pretty bad too. Really they didn't need him. Then he was injured when they got him. So they get 102 at bats, and a sub .700 ops out of him.

Of course, the Pirates will figure out a way to mess up Tim Aldersen, though. So it'll invariably be a nothing for nothing trade 10 years from now.

[Vince, Pt. II]

See, it's tough to rag on Sabean for not putting together a good offense - he's put together one of the best pitching staffs any one of us has seen in decades. But you are indeed correct - the two deadline deals were atrocious.

The only reason the Freddy Sanchez deal was necessary was because Renteria is so god-awful. Because of that Bochy needed to play Juan Uribe at SS (which he didn't do anyways) which left the Giants in need of a 2B - and Eugenio Velez's D is atrocious.

Then there's Garko - dude has a career .280/.352/.442 line and a 106 OPS+, and Bochy wrote him off after 109 ABs. He's obviously better than the .239/.314/.339 line he put up, but Bochy hasn't given him ANY option to correct the mistake.

So the Giants traded away their #2 and #3 pitching prospects for two rent-a-players who did absolutely nothing for them. And now, even though he's damaged goods, Sabean has hinted that the Giants are likely to pick up Sanchez's option.

Then again, Sabean DID sign Uribe, and DID put together an amazing bullpen this year. Good with the bad...but the bad is pretty atrocious. Aaron Rowand, Edgar Renteria and Barry Zito are worth about $60M next year in the books - if they were paid based on their contributions, they'd struggle to crack $5M as a group.

[stevew]

Picking up Sanchez's option would be such a huge mistake. Then again, he is a type A free agent. So decline, and then offer him arb and hope for the best.

I guess if they do get comp picks out of Sanchez, then it was actually a shrewd move. The Pirates wouldn't have been able to bench him(and help him avoid 600PAs) for being injured. But as his new team, the Giants really can do whatever they want with him.

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Me neither. It's like every other game they play like they want to win.



I think this was the least of their problems. Losing by 5 runs, at home, in a potential division clinching game is unacceptable. I wonder if any fingers should be pointed at Leyland?

In fact, losing 3 of 4 at home in a series this important has to put at least some of the blame on the manager, does it not?

You can always second guess the manager but overall I think he's done very well this season with the players he has been given. I didn't really see a whole lot that Leyland could have done different in the series, at the end of the day the players got to make plays. Guys are still swinging for homeruns when all you need is a ground ball to get the runner home, instead he pops up or strikes out. Leyland has commented on that several times this year, guys like Inge just don't get it.

Overall though I think Leyland has done very well, however I'm going to blast him if he really starts Figaro on Saturday instead of pulling ahead Verlander and going with Porcello on Sunday.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Greinke's final start is tonight. Hope he finishes up with another great start.

Edit: Whoops. Looks like his start was bumped back a day due to the Thursday off day. So it won't be until Saturday.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Balldog

You can always second guess the manager but overall I think he's done very well this season with the players he has been given. I didn't really see a whole lot that Leyland could have done different in the series, at the end of the day the players got to make plays. Guys are still swinging for homeruns when all you need is a ground ball to get the runner home, instead he pops up or strikes out. Leyland has commented on that several times this year, guys like Inge just don't get it.

Overall though I think Leyland has done very well, however I'm going to blast him if he really starts Figaro on Saturday instead of pulling ahead Verlander and going with Porcello on Sunday.

Granted, I don't follow the Tigers as closely as I did in the past. I always thought of Inge as very one-dimensional. He tended to hit a home run or strikeout, with very little in between. Is this assessment correct, or am I way off?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Granted, I don't follow the Tigers as closely as I did in the past. I always thought of Inge as very one-dimensional. He tended to hit a home run or strikeout, with very little in between. Is this assessment correct, or am I way off?

You're thinking of Rob Deer.

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Granted, I don't follow the Tigers as closely as I did in the past. I always thought of Inge as very one-dimensional. He tended to hit a home run or strikeout, with very little in between. Is this assessment correct, or am I way off?

You pretty much nailed it. Throw in a lot of pop outs too. He had some big hits during the last series but overall he's been a bum since the All Star break. He leads the AL in errors at 3B but for some reason everyone thinks he is a great defensive player. He would have a hard time finding playing time for any other team in the AL.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You're thinking of Rob Deer.

Damn, I forgot all about that guy. He struck out, what, 300 times a season?

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Balldog

You pretty much nailed it. Throw in a lot of pop outs too. He had some big hits during the last series but overall he's been a bum since the All Star break. He leads the AL in errors at 3B but for some reason everyone thinks he is a great defensive player. He would have a hard time finding playing time for any other team in the AL.

I still wonder why Inge didn't go back to catcher. Especially after they traded Pudge. I kinda questioned why they traded for Gerald Laird too...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Damn, I forgot all about that guy. He struck out, what, 300 times a season?

I have no idea if these are exactly correct, but I'm almost positive I remember stats like this popping up on the screen when he came up to bat in a game vs. the Royals on TV.....

Current Stats:

.179 AVG, 26 HR, 70 RBI

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I have no idea if these are exactly correct, but I'm almost positive I remember stats like this popping up on the screen when he came up to bat in a game vs. the Royals on TV.....

Current Stats:

.179 AVG, 26 HR, 70 RBI

Very close to his numbers in 1991:

Rob Deer Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Wow, a career .220 hitter. Nice.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Very close to his numbers in 1991:

Rob Deer Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Wow, a career .220 hitter. Nice.

That's probably correct. It was just an image burned in my mind for some reason. I was awe-struck by the fact that a guy was able to have a .179 average and still be a regular starter. He either hit it out of the ball park or corkscrewed himself into the batter's box on a swinging strike three.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

That's probably correct. It was just an image burned in my mind for some reason. I was awe-struck by the fact that a guy was able to have a .179 average and still be a regular starter. He either hit it out of the ball park or corkscrewed himself into the batter's box on a swinging strike three.

This made me laugh out loud.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Very close to his numbers in 1991:

Rob Deer Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Wow, a career .220 hitter. Nice.

And yet, a career 109 OPS+, meaning he was 9% better than the average hitter during his career.

[stevew]

No, hitters that strike out too much and have low batting averages are not good.

[stevew]

dola-

Do I need to put a smiley in there?

[ISiddiqui]

You should probably start talking about how you know this by watching him play, rather than what these new fangled statistics try to say...

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

You should probably start talking about how you know this by watching him play, rather than what these new fangled statistics try to say...

Let it go dude.

[ISiddiqui]

We are just tweaking you .

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

We are just tweaking you .

Yeah, I love me some stats. At least now that I know where to find them.

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I still wonder why Inge didn't go back to catcher. Especially after they traded Pudge. I kinda questioned why they traded for Gerald Laird too...

Inge didn't want to, he was actually mad when they asked him to bring his catching equipment to the all-star game. He is a great guy and an asset to the community but a below average player at best.

I like Laird. He's been very solid defensively

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Balldog

Inge didn't want to, he was actually mad when they asked him to bring his catching equipment to the all-star game. He is a great guy and an asset to the community but a below average player at best.

I like Laird. He's been very solid defensively

Haven't really watched him so I will take your word for it. Let's hope they can hold off the Twins and win that division.

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Haven't really watched him so I will take your word for it. Let's hope they can hold off the Twins and win that division.

I think he is leading the league in RTO% and I think he's done well managing the pitching staff. His offense is pretty weak though.

[RomaGoth]

Anyone else see this bizarre story? WTF???

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10154142/Book-claims-Ted-Williams'-frozen-head-abused

[molson]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Anyone else see this bizarre story? WTF???

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10154142/Book-claims-Ted-Williams'-frozen-head-abused

The guy never even got a funeral because of that weirdo (now dead) son of his.

[JS19]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Anyone else see this bizarre story? WTF???

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10154142/Book-claims-Ted-Williams'-frozen-head-abused

Just read this, freaking nuts.

[Oilers9911]

Blue Jays fire Ricciardi. Thank God. About 3 years too late.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

Blue Jays fire Ricciardi. Thank God. About 3 years too late.

Any word on who will replace him?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Any word on who will replace him?

Isiah Thomas.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Isiah Thompson.

fixed