College Football Week 13 discussions (In-state rivalry week/possible Black Friday)

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

It might be pretty close because they were only a spot apart in last weeks BCS rankings and Ohio State made up a good bit of ground in the coaches' poll (because LSU and Boise both lost).

NCAA College Football BCS Standings Week 14 - ESPN

Wisconsin goes to the Rose Bowl unless something freaky happens considering both teams are done. Stanford is #4 so they have to be taken in the top five BCS games.

[CU Tiger]

And Gruden appears ready to be the next coach at the U

[Masked]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Dola - I shouldn't really say that Stanford fans "suck"; it's more that there's an embarrassingly small amount of Stanford fans given how good their team is.

One key reason why they struggle to draw big crowds is that Stanford is much smaller than most other BCS schools.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

And Gruden appears ready to be the next coach at the U

You think they can afford him? I know he will get back into coaching someday and I think he'd make a great college coach. But the NFL money is much better and I'm sure someone will throw a truckload at him at some point.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

You think they can afford him? I know he will get back into coaching someday and I think he'd make a great college coach. But the NFL money is much better and I'm sure someone will throw a truckload at him at some point.

Miami is looking at offering someone over $3 mil per year. He could probably make more in the NFL, but a switch to college ball may appeal to him more right now. You never know.

[tarcone]

Iowa threw $3 million at Ferentz. Private contributors made up any difference the University couldnt/wouldnt pay. With all the other things Ferentz makes close to $ 4 million.

Miami shouldnt have a problem throwing that type of money at him

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Iowa threw $3 million at Ferentz. Private contributors made up any difference the University couldnt/wouldnt pay. With all the other things Ferentz makes close to $ 4 million.

Miami shouldnt have a problem throwing that type of money at him

The U doesn't have a very large donor base so going $3 mil is a fairly big deal for them.

The U is a really odd school. Facilities aren't the best, no on campus stadium, small donor base, and a private school. Yet they're right in the middle of arguably the most talented area for high school football in America so it makes up for all of that.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by bob

On the bright side, (Rich Rodriguez) never lost to Notre Dame.

Michigan Wolverines vs. Notre Dame Fighting Irish - Recap - September 13, 2008 - ESPN

Originally Posted by molson

LSU had time at the end on their last drive of the game, down 11, and didn't seem to hurry. They needed to do EVERYTHING possible to score and give themselves time to kick away and try to get a punt back.

Wait, you're saying LSU and Les Miles have bad clock management?

Originally Posted by RainMaker

College football is about not losing, not about winning. It's seeing which team can survive a schedule of cupcakes, mediocre teams, and 1-2 good teams. Championships should be won by beating the best teams, not a bunch of mediocre teams.

Oregon has beaten one team in the top 10. Auburn has beaten 0 teams in the top 10. Name another sport where you can make a championship game by not having to go through the top teams in your league.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

it's great teams against average/good teams. It's not great teams vs great teams. I enjoy Auburn/Alabama and Oregon/Arizona like I enjoyed watching the Patriots and Jets yesterday. Being challenged for awhile against run-of-the-mill teams.

So LSU, Arkansas, South Carolina and apparently particularly Alabama = mediocre, run of the mill teams? Ok buddy. People here love saying Nebraska is a slightly better than average team and now you're saying Alabama is a mediocre one - all I know is I'd like to see what you consider to be good teams, because apparently there are some great teams out there I (and the pollsters and the computer ratings and the TV executives) haven't found yet.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The U doesn't have a very large donor base so going $3 mil is a fairly big deal for them.

The U is a really odd school. Facilities aren't the best, no on campus stadium, small donor base, and a private school. Yet they're right in the middle of arguably the most talented area for high school football in America so it makes up for all of that.

Nah they have a large contingent of very rich NFL alumnus who will throw money wherever it is needed.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Multiple sources claiming Houston Nutt is going to be resigning at Ole Miss. Not sure I believe it, but absolutely hilarious to me. Pretty sure I could've made a fortune taking bets thrown at me about who would be at their job longer, Petrino or Nutt.

If only I were into prop bets like that.

( My guess is he's going to throw his staff under the bus instead of resigning himself, which is just what I'm guessing from knowing him pretty well. We'll see.)

It may be that you could have, but don't kid yourself that people didn't have good reason to think so, given Petrino's lengthy history of being a complete turd. You only would have taken those bets yourself because of your homerism.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

It may be that you could have, but don't kid yourself that people didn't have good reason to think so, given Petrino's lengthy history of being a complete turd. You only would have taken those bets yourself because of your homerism.

It also helps you stick around when somebody gift wraps you Mallet.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Dola - I shouldn't really say that Stanford fans "suck"; it's more that there's an embarrassingly small amount of Stanford fans given how good their team is.

Its just that college football doesn't rank high on the consciousness out here - I mean, we have 6 different pro teams in the area (Giants, A's, Niners, Raiders, Warriors, Sharks) and Stanford is a pretty elite college / not that sports focused (off-hand, it may be the most top of the line academic institution that's a player in CFB, against institutions like Southern Mississippi School of the College Football Players ). Amongst those who care around here, Cal has a significantly bigger alumni base.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Masked

One key reason why they struggle to draw big crowds is that Stanford is much smaller than most other BCS schools.

That's part of it. According to Jon Wilner, there are 55,000 Stanford alumni in the Bay Area, compared to 150,000 Cal alumni. So that is certainly a factor.

But Stanford has also done a poor job of marketing the program for a long time, only in the last year or two starting to figure out how to do so. And you'd think that more casual football fans in the area would gravitate towards Stanford football given their success and the nice new stadium. Especially considering the 49ers haven't been very good for quite a while now, and Cal lately has slid back to mediocrity.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

you're saying LSU and Les Miles have bad clock management? So LSU, Arkansas, South Carolina and apparently particularly Alabama = mediocre, run of the mill teams? Ok buddy. People here love saying Nebraska is a slightly better than average team and now you're saying Alabama is a mediocre one - all I know is I'd like to see what you consider to be good teams, because apparently there are some great teams out there I (and the pollsters and the computer ratings and the TV executives) haven't found yet.

No, they are all good teams. I'm saying that you don't have to beat the elite teams to play in the Championship like in every other sport. As seen by the fact that Oregon will play in the National Championship by beating only one top 20 BCS team. And the highest team Texas had to beat to get in was 19th.

In just about every major sport, to play in a Championship, you have to go through the best teams in the league.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

That's part of it. According to Jon Wilner, there are 55,000 Stanford alumni in the Bay Area, compared to 150,000 Cal alumni. So that is certainly a factor.

But Stanford has also done a poor job of marketing the program for a long time, only in the last year or two starting to figure out how to do so. And you'd think that more casual football fans in the area would gravitate towards Stanford football given their success and the nice new stadium. Especially considering the 49ers haven't been very good for quite a while now, and Cal lately has slid back to mediocrity.

Plus, Stanford fans can afford the travel and tickets. They're not overseas in Greenpeace or the Peace Corps or running "herb stores" like Cal fans.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Miami is looking at offering someone over $3 mil per year. He could probably make more in the NFL, but a switch to college ball may appeal to him more right now. You never know.

I just think there would be better college offers. The ACC is not a very prestiguous football conference and it likely won't garner the kind of attention or respect he'd get from an NFL job. I do think the guy likes the limelight a bit.

I've always said he'd be a great college coach but I think he'd be better off holding out for a better offer.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I just think there would be better college offers. The ACC is not a very prestiguous football conference and it likely won't garner the kind of attention or respect he'd get from an NFL job. I do think the guy likes the limelight a bit.

I've always said he'd be a great college coach but I think he'd be better off holding out for a better offer.

Even with Miami being down the last several years, they have a ton of talent year in and year out, they just haven't had a coach to bring it all together. I would still consider it to be a top end job, up there with USC, Nebraska, Michigan, etc...

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

It may be that you could have, but don't kid yourself that people didn't have good reason to think so, given Petrino's lengthy history of being a complete turd. You only would have taken those bets yourself because of your homerism.

Not going to get into it, but a lot of the reason people did it was because of the smear job by the Falcons and ESPN. He's not a job-hopper at all, but everyone sure thought he was just because of that stupid campaign. I'm not kidding myself at all, here.

Look at his head coaching history. This is his 3rd job. Louisville and Atlanta were his first two head coaching jobs. And do you remember all the snide comments about how he would be gone if the "right offer" came along, etc? Nothing but a smear job.

I understand there is some angst over him leaving a note on his way out, but if you remember, he asked to meet with the team and was told no. Funny, that was never mentioned on ESPN. Of course, he had to leave when he did because it's when college jobs were open.

Bah, I said I wouldn't get into it. I will leave with this: Houston Nutt is 10x the turd Petrino is and people love him to death. It's annoying and not at all to do with homerism. If you think I just automatically love all Arkansas coaches, you are just wrong.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Matthean

It also helps you stick around when somebody gift wraps you Mallet.

lol

[JPhillips]

From Mike Zimmer:

But Zimmer is still livid about what went down with the Falcons three years ago.

“When a coach quits in the middle of the year and ruins a bunch of people’s families and doesn’t have enough guts to finish out the year, I’m not a part of it,” Zimmer said. “And you can put that in the Arkansas News Gazette. I don’t really give a (bleep). He’s a coward, he ruined a bunch of people’s lives, a bunch of families, kids, because he didn’t have enough (guts) to stay there and finish the job. And that’s the truth. Most people in football have enough courage about him and enough fight to stick it out and not quit halfway through the year. It’s cowardly.”

Petrino pulled the coaching equivalent of the Baltimore Colts leaving in the middle of the night when he surfaced in Arkansas to take the job about 24 hours after the Falcons appeared on Monday Night Football.

“He came in and said he resigned, (said) he’d talk to us all at a later date, walked out of the office and no one has talked to him since,” Zimmer said. “Not that anybody wanted to. He’s a gutless (bleep). You can quote that.”

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

I will leave with this: Houston Nutt is 10x the turd Petrino is and people love him to death.

And with that, the rose colored glasses theory was confirmed.

[Chief Rum]

Honestly, I think both Petrino and Nutt are turds. It doesn't do either one good to be compared to the other.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

And with that, the rose colored glasses theory was confirmed.

lol ok

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Honestly, I think both Petrino and Nutt are turds. It doesn't do either one good to be compared to the other.

Fair enough. I will actually take this, since until now, most people (not saying you) didn't realize the latter and thought he was the freakin' bees' knees.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Not going to get into it, but a lot of the reason people did it was because of the smear job by the Falcons and ESPN. He's not a job-hopper at all, but everyone sure thought he was just because of that stupid campaign. I'm not kidding myself at all, here.

Look at his head coaching history. This is his 3rd job. Louisville and Atlanta were his first two head coaching jobs. And do you remember all the snide comments about how he would be gone if the "right offer" came along, etc? Nothing but a smear job.

I understand there is some angst over him leaving a note on his way out, but if you remember, he asked to meet with the team and was told no. Funny, that was never mentioned on ESPN. Of course, he had to leave when he did because it's when college jobs were open.

Bah, I said I wouldn't get into it. I will leave with this: Houston Nutt is 10x the turd Petrino is and people love him to death. It's annoying and not at all to do with homerism. If you think I just automatically love all Arkansas coaches, you are just wrong.

I'm just wondering if you will be saying the same thing if/when Petrino bolts Arkansas for a higher profile job....

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Honestly, I think both Petrino and Nutt are turds. It doesn't do either one good to be compared to the other.

+1

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I'm just wondering if you will be saying the same thing if/when Petrino bolts Arkansas for a higher profile job....

Saying what same thing? There is nothing there that I would take back if he left for another job, no. However, I also don't think that will happen for awhile. His reputation as a "job-hopper," again, is basically just made-up. He called this season the most enjoyable year he's ever coached recently. He also has a much more relaxed and personable demeanor in his press conferences than he had at his previous two jobs. I like to think he actually likes it here.

Heaven knows we like him (and we liked him when he was 4-7 here, not just because he has us in position for a BCS bowl after only 3 seasons). And I don't care who thinks he's a turd.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

His reputation as a "job-hopper," again, is basically just made-up.

I don't think it is the "job-hopper" label that is bothersome, it is more of how he has gone about leaving his jobs that has garnered the public ire.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I don't think it is the "job-hopper" label that is bothersome, it is more of how he has gone about leaving his jobs that has garnered the public ire.

You mean having the permission to leave jerked out from under him by an owner trying to save public face after his star QB got sentenced to jail? The owner that wouldn't let him meet with the team to tell them he was leaving, then used the only thing he could do (leave them a note) as ammo for a public smear campaign?

I'm not sure exactly what he should've done when a job he really wanted came open and he was given permission to pursue it and then had it taken away from him after he'd already decided he wanted it.

People may not like that he did what was best for him and his family, but I wouldn't really care if people liked it or not if I was him.

I honestly think he's one of the top 10 coaches in the country, easily. I would personally put him at minimum top 3, but I'm trying to be a little conservative. I'd be foolish to not think he might go to a higher profile job someday (not the NFL, though, obviously). Trust me when I tell you we will do everything humanly possible to make sure he retires here, though.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

I honestly think he's one of the top 10 coaches in the country, easily. I would personally put him at minimum top 3, but I'm trying to be a little conservative. I'd be foolish to not think he might go to a higher profile job someday (not the NFL, though, obviously). Trust me when I tell you we will do everything humanly possible to make sure he retires here, though.

You'll see what an actual top 3 coach in the country is like when the Razorbacks face Ohio State in the Sugar Bowl.

[MJ4H]

[ISiddiqui]

I mean seriously... it wasn't as if Petrino was thought to be a saint when the Falcons hired him. There were seriously grumblings about him trying to backstab his way into the Auburn head coaching job when Tuberville was coach, before he landed with Louisville. And not like Louisville was all that thrilled how he left that position, especially after he kept talking to other teams about jobs the entire time he was there.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Even with Miami being down the last several years, they have a ton of talent year in and year out, they just haven't had a coach to bring it all together. I would still consider it to be a top end job, up there with USC, Nebraska, Michigan, etc...

I agree that Miami is a major program. I just don't think they have the same pull for a big name like Gruden. The ACC is going to take a major hit as other conferences continue to get stronger. It's just not prestiguous and doesn't get the attention of others.

I feel if he is going to go the college route, he'd do it in the Big 10 or Pac-10 where he'll get more attention. Even then, I still feel like he ends up in the NFL simply because someone will pay him $5+ million a year to coach a team.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

I would personally put him at minimum top 3, but I'm trying to be a little conservative.

Urban Meyer
Nick Saban
Gary Patterson
Chris Petersen
Mack Brown
Bob Stoops
Chip Kelly
Brain Kelly(yes, I know this looks not as good after this year)
Jim Tressel

So Bobby Petrino is a minimum 3rd in that list being on the conservative side. Again, due to Mallet being gift wrapped for Arkansas it's the only way that team is 9-2 this year and they come across as just a decent SEC team without him.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Urban Meyer
Nick Saban
Gary Patterson
Chris Petersen
Mack Brown
Bob Stoops
Chip Kelly
Brain Kelly(yes, I know this looks not as good after this year)
Jim Tressel

So Bobby Petrino is a minimum 3rd in that list being on the conservative side. Again, due to Mallet being gift wrapped for Arkansas it's the only way that team is 9-2 this year and they come across as just a decent SEC team without him.

Yes, he is as far as I'm concerned*. I like the gift-wrapped Mallett, thing, I've been hearing lately, as if he's the only one with a talented player on his team. I guess you missed the backup QB** going 13 of 14 in the 2nd half of the Auburn game, too (yes I know he ended the game with 2 interceptions in desperation time). Petrino is largely responsible for his success, you know. He has a track record for developing QBs. Would you be surprised if I thought we were going to be better next year, even after Mallett goes pro? We won't be starving for QB talent.

*some of those I kind of chuckle at the thought of being better than Petrino, frankly (Mack Brown). The two on that list that give me pause about saying the best are Saban and Peterson, if you were wondering. The rest, no.

**I'm on record as thinking Tyler Wilson should be our 3rd QB, not our backup, by the way. Most people have been able to see as a result of those couple of appearances that our offense isn't going to drop off dramatically when we have a different quarterback.

[RainMaker]

It's weird how if a coach quits for a different job, he's a horrible person. But if a team/college fires the coach it's cool. Seems kind of one sided.

[MJ4H]

deleted.

I said I didn't want to get into it and then got right into it. I hate myself sometimes.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's weird how if a coach quits for a different job, he's a horrible person. But if a team/college fires the coach it's cool. Seems kind of one sided.

this ffs

[panerd]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Yes, he is as far as I'm concerned*. I like the gift-wrapped Mallett, thing, I've been hearing lately, as if he's the only one with a talented player on his team. I guess you missed the backup QB** going 13 of 14 in the 2nd half of the Auburn game, too (yes I know he ended the game with 2 interceptions in desperation time). Petrino is largely responsible for his success, you know. He has a track record for developing QBs. Would you be surprised if I thought we were going to be better next year, even after Mallett goes pro? We won't be starving for QB talent.

*some of those I kind of chuckle at the thought of being better than Petrino, frankly (Mack Brown). The two on that list that give me pause about saying the best are Saban and Peterson, if you were wondering. The rest, no.

**I'm on record as thinking Tyler Wilson should be our 3rd QB, not our backup, by the way. Most people have been able to see as a result of those couple of appearances that our offense isn't going to drop off dramatically when we have a different quarterback.

Your homerism on this topic is pretty bad. It's cool, it is what's fun about being a fan of a college program. But if this were about Gary Pinkel being 10-2 and Pinkel had screwed over some NFL team you would definitely be laughing about anything that MBBF wrote.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's weird how if a coach quits for a different job, he's a horrible person. But if a team/college fires the coach it's cool. Seems kind of one sided.

I don't think I've ever really thought ill of a coach who left to go somewhere else unless they found ways to really mishandle it. Coach Fran leaving 'Bama comes to mind.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by panerd

Your homerism on this topic is pretty bad. It's cool, it is what's fun about being a fan of a college program. But if this were about Gary Pinkel being 10-2 and Pinkel had screwed over some NFL team you would definitely be laughing about anything that MBBF wrote.

Hardly. Gary Pinkel is a great coach and if he had been mistreated, I'd be right in his corner. I understand your concerns about my homerism, but in this case, I believe it is just because I see how he operates up-close several times a week so I have a lot of information about how he runs the program. You are free to disagree, of course, and I completely understand why.

It's funny that you said what MBBF wrote instead of what you or one of the other Missouri fans. Personal issues with him have nothing to do with what I would think about Gary Pinkel.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's weird how if a coach quits for a different job, he's a horrible person. But if a team/college fires the coach he continues to get paid for sitting on his ass. Seems kind of one sided.

Fixed.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Yes, he is as far as I'm concerned*.

*some of those I kind of chuckle at the thought of being better than Petrino, frankly (Mack Brown). The two on that list that give me pause about saying the best are Saban and Peterson, if you were wondering. The rest, no.

lol

I would take Saban and Peterson over Petrino any day of the week. Peterson, especially, is a helluva coach and would be winning national championships already if he was at a BCS school.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Fair enough. I will actually take this, since until now, most people (not saying you) didn't realize the latter and thought he was the freakin' bees' knees.

Could you say, at least, who "most people" are? I'm not sure I've met anyone that really thought Nutt was Super Awesome.

Shoot, even with his success at Ole Miss, all I could think of is that he was raking in on Orgeron's recruiting accomplishments.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Urban Meyer
Nick Saban
Gary Patterson
Chris Petersen
Mack Brown
Bob Stoops
Chip Kelly
Brain Kelly(yes, I know this looks not as good after this year)
Jim Tressel

I'd put Kyle Whittingham on that list too. Mike Riley also.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

No, they are all good teams. I'm saying that you don't have to beat the elite teams to play in the Championship like in every other sport. As seen by the fact that Oregon will play in the National Championship by beating only one top 20 BCS team. And the highest team Texas had to beat to get in was 19th.

In just about every major sport, to play in a Championship, you have to go through the best teams in the league.

You don't seem to be accounting for scale. There are 120 FBS football teams compared to 32 NFL teams. Top 20 in FBS = top 17%; that's the equivalent of the top 5 teams in the NFL.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I'd put Kyle Whittingham on that list too. Mike Riley also.

Not sure if these guys are better but you also have to consider Bret Bielema and Kirk Ferentz. They've done some exceptional things with non-powerhouse programs.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Not sure if these guys are better but you also have to consider Bret Bielema and Kirk Ferentz. They've done some exceptional things with non-powerhouse programs.

No. Bielema shouldn't be in the discussion. He had a good season this year, but really, he actually downgraded the Badgers a bit IMO from the Alvarez days.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Izulde

No. Bielema shouldn't be in the discussion. He had a good season this year, but really, he actually downgraded the Badgers a bit IMO from the Alvarez days.

Plus, he's a huge ass.

[miked]

Are we really arguing whether secretly interviewing for jobs and leaving the day after your team plays in it's 13th game as a head coach is kosher? Oh, I guess he wasn't up to trying to fulfill his contract when things got tough, but he's the poster boy for a spine-less vagina.

But poor him, he was forced to leave a note because the team that hired him and gave him a contract wasn't thrilled that he had been shopping for jobs behind their back and left in the middle of a season. Poor him and the amazing smear job by the Falcons brass. The amazing thing is that we are much better off without him. He is/was a mediocre coach and there is no way the Falcons would've been a playoff team with him.