The OFFICIAL 2009 NFL Offseason Thread - What else comes in 3's? Firing OC's!

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

Sorry, you're right. Why are you speculating on what he will do in the future based on what you observed in this one instance, when he didn't exhibit any of that behavior iin the past despite having ample opportunities to do so (i.e. him not bitching about the coaching change that has occurred, but you feel he will all of a sudden start bitching the next time it occurs: "unless he doesn't like his coach").

I'm in a bad mood today, maybe I'm just taking it out on Cutler.

The whole thing rubs me the wrong way though - it's far worse than holding out when drafted, complaining about playing time and other players, etc.

How many QBs hold their teams hostage like this? This is Brett Favre-level stuff, at least.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm in a bad mood today, maybe I'm just taking it out on Cutler.

Fair enough, at least you admit it .

The whole thing rubs me the wrong way though - it's far worse than holding out when drafted, complaining about playing time and other players, etc.

How many QBs hold their teams hostage like this? This is Brett Favre-level stuff, at least.

Obviously I disagree with all of the above, primarily because he was perfectly willing to remain in his role before McDaniels started pulling his shit.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

What did McDaniels pull? Listening to a trade proposal? Let's not get too carried away in the other direction, either.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

What did McDaniels pull? Listening to a trade proposal? Let's not get too carried away in the other direction, either.

Umm...lying about it?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

Umm...lying about it?

Didn't Cutler (and his parents) put his house up for sale and demand a trade before that "meeting" with McDaniels?

The truth would have been, "I prefer Cassell to you, to the extent that I was willing to throw a high first round pick into the deal, but now that I have to settle for you, I'm hoping for the best". I'm not sure that meeting ends any better.

Maybe he just told the wrong lie.

Cutler thinks he's an elite QB that's above any trade talks, and I guess we'll find out if he's right, when he likely gets to play in a far less QB-friendly situation.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by Logan

Umm...lying about it?

I may be confused, but going by this (http://www.denverpost.com/sportshead...246?source=rss) it seems like Cutler got pissy at the thought of being traded. Sure, the coverup is bad and McDaniels doesn't coming out smelling like roses, but I've always taken it that Cutler got pissed that the thought even crossed their mind. Actually, to be honest, I'm pretty sure he's trying to get another signing bonus out of this, plain and simple.

[Ksyrup]

I'm not sure I buy the rumor that Cutler demanded a trade even before McDaniels was hired, but I certainly think something happened between he and Bowlen when Shanahan was let go, because that would explain why Bowlen has been hands off on this situation and/or backing his new coach. But I still think the "expectations" thing is a valid issue - a guy like Cutler has a legitimate expectation that he is untouchable, primarily because his team has treated him that way since he was drafted. If they wanted to make a move, I think you have to be up front with him. Problem is, McDaniels wanted it both ways - he wanted to see if he could get his guy, but if it didn't work out, he would have been happy with Cutler. His monumental fuck-up was not being prepared for the possibility that Cassel ended up somewhere else and Cutler got wind of a possible trade.

Is the team right that anyone is tradeable? Of course. But there's a course of conduct that's been established with Cutler, and until this came out of the blue, he knew nothing else. Somewhat similar situations (although not as egregious as this, because unlike Cutler, these guys suck) are playing themselves out right now in MLB: Juan Pierre and Gary Matthews. Both of these guys signed long-term, big dollar deals with new teams a couple of years ago, and both are no longer starting or good enough to start. And objectively, we can all see why their teams made those decisions. But put yourself in their shoes - you have been a starting OF, go to a new team that offers you the world in a contract, and just like that, you're the 4th/5th OF with 3 year left on your deal. How else do you expect those guys to react? They really aren't any worse than when they signed, but the contract told them otherwise. You can't expect players to objectively view the situation, especially when their expectations based on what's occurred previously are so much different than the reality they are suddenly forced to deal with.

Like I said, here, Cutler's situation is even more jarring for him, because he's clearly the best player and face the franchise, and suddenly he's on the trade block for no reason other than the team wants to "upgrade" from a young Pro Bowl QB...? I'd have a hard time coming to grips with that, too, other than deciding the team just didn't want me and I'd be better off playing for a team that valued me more than that.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Are you forgetting that Elway demanded a trade from the Colts who mistreated him to the tune of drafting him?

Or that Eli Manning did the same before even being drafted.

And that once those guys started playing, those things were largely forgotten? Criticism of Elway for that wore off long before the 5th Super Bowl. Criticism of Eli has always centered around his play.

This will be forgotten (or at least stop being a big media story) by Friday of week 1 of the NFL, and Cutler will be judged solely by his play.

(I was too young when Elway demanded a trade)

I still consider Eli (and his dad) a tool for how that whole thing went down with San Diego- not that my opinion is worth much. Obviously it greatly hurt his brother to play for a non big market team or a franchise thought of as a joke. It just goes to show how Eli's still only half what his brother is or less.

SI

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

This is the article which King first reported this.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ncy/index.html


Every other mention since then, as far as I've seen, has simply referenced this small passage by King.

My memory may be playing tricks on me. I thought this came up right after the coach stuff went down, but I can't find a different source. Sorry 'bout that.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

It's no problem, because King is usually pretty good with his stuff (he has a ton of sources, at least). Just the fact that this is a very important piece of the puzzle that NO ONE else has corroborated is worrisome.

[Logan]

Yeah, someone on another board I read (fantasy football so they're all obsessively crazy) made the same point you did (but did it in a way that called everyone defending Cutler an idiot since, after all, he demanded the trade first). I calmly asked for a link to anything outside of King; no response yet .

[DeToxRox]

McDaniel's already faces an uphill battle. He's only 32, it's apparent he was not the man behind the offense in New England, or if he was, BB's fingerprints are still all over it, and the track record of Pats coordinators turned coaches isn't good.

It was a questionable hire to begin with, and if it's true he wanted Cassel then he is showing his naivity because it's obvious people would find out.

Say what you will about Cutler in all this but in the NFL a franchise QB 9 times out of 10 is worth keeping over a coach. Especially a coach with a high bust potential.

This entire mess started at the top with Bowlen for making this hire, especially when they should've hired a defensive guy and let Bates run the offense and all would be well.

I realize the team has to stick with thier Coach now but he shouldn't be the coach to begin with.

[Logan]

Getting back to where he could end up...

I'd love if the Niners made the move. There's not much to part with outside of the #10 pick (maybe they'd have interest in Manny Lawson -- very talented but hasn't seemed to find his role in the system) but I would pay a reasonable price, even understanding that there would be a lot of work still to do. The biggest needs are at RT and SS, and the tackle depth is great this year, so that should be able to be addressed in the second round, and safety is a position where you tend to see value in those middle rounds as well.

As others have said, franchise 25 year old QBs not only don't grow on trees but you have to be extremely lucky across multiple factors to get one. He would be loved in SF from the start and would add some juice back to the franchise.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

Getting back to where he could end up...

I'd love if the Niners made the move. There's not much to part with outside of the #10 pick (maybe they'd have interest in Manny Lawson -- very talented but hasn't seemed to find his role in the system) but I would pay a reasonable price, even understanding that there would be a lot of work still to do. The biggest needs are at RT and SS, and the tackle depth is great this year, so that should be able to be addressed in the second round, and safety is a position where you tend to see value in those middle rounds as well.

As others have said, franchise 25 year old QBs not only don't grow on trees but you have to be extremely lucky across multiple factors to get one. He would be loved in SF from the start and would add some juice back to the franchise.

Singletary + Cutler = hillarity.

He needs to go somwehere he'll be coddled.

[DeToxRox]

I think it's Detroit or Washington who get Cutler. I cannot see the Broncos trading him anywhere in the AFC. It'd take the Jets offering Revis + a pick and that'd be stupid on both ends in my opinion.

Washington can offer their 1st and Campbell in a package which gives them a realistic possibility.

If the Niners would pass on Stafford because of his mental makeup for how he responded to being grilled on divorce, but take Cutler, well, that'd be hilarious. SF could trade 10 but they have no QB to deal with it.

Tampa Bay has no QB to deal, and their 17th pick is not going to get it done.

Detroit has the best chance obviously, but only if there is a player in this draft the Broncos love. Be it Stafford, Curry or whoever. Detroit has 5 top 100 picks and can probably find a third team somewhere, ala Cleveland, to get a QB to Denver. I think a three team deal is the only way this gets done outside of Washington offering their 1st + Campbell and even then, as well as Campbell might fit Denver's system, you're talking his 5th new OC already? Not sure I like that gamble.

[DeToxRox]

One "high-profile" player agent told the Denver Post that he could see the Broncos demanding two first-round picks and a second-rounder for Jay Cutler.
"I could see a first and a second this year, and a first next year," he said. "If you're looking at some unknown kid in the draft, you'd much rather have Cutler. You're talking about a quarterback who's athletic and talented."
Source: Denver Post

[DeToxRox]

Let's assume the above is the package they want .. I think it'd take Detroit out of the running and make Washington make the most sense.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

One "high-profile" player agent told the Denver Post that he could see the Broncos demanding two first-round picks and a second-rounder for Jay Cutler.
"I could see a first and a second this year, and a first next year," he said. "If you're looking at some unknown kid in the draft, you'd much rather have Cutler. You're talking about a quarterback who's athletic and talented."
Source: Denver Post

Assuming the difference in where the Niners are picking at 10 compared to all those other interested teams (late teens, early 20s) is enough to knock that 2nd to a 3rd, I'd do it in a second.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by molson

Manning's also won a super bowl. And both the Elway/Manning things happened before their careers even started, not during the middle of them.

You are grasping at straws here. How does the fact that they happened before their careers change anything. If anything, it makes them seem more like prima donnas than Cutler comes off here. At least he has had a measure of success in the NFL.

How do you think Eli would have handled it if he had found out the Giants were shopping him? Any differently? Really?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by molson

Singletary + Cutler = hillarity.

He needs to go somwehere he'll be coddled.

Yeah, Shanahan was of course notorious for how he babied his players.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

Yeah, Shanahan was of course notorious for how he babied his players.

Isn't that the argument that is being made? Cutler had been treated a certain way (babied?) since he joined the Broncos. McDaniels came in and tried to treat him like just any other player instead of the franchise guy he is supposed to be. Whoever he is traded to would have to treat him differently than they treat the other 52 guys on the roster. You can make the argument that every Pro Bowl QB is treated differently than the other players on his team.

[Balldog]

Heard this today from the dorky dude on ESPN, can't remember his name.

Detroit gets Jay Cutler, Cleveland's pick #5 overall
Cleveland gets Detroit's pick #1 overall
Denver gets Brady Quinn

If that's true, the Lions would be getting one hell of a deal!

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Balldog

Heard this today from the dorky dude on ESPN, can't remember his name.

Detroit gets Jay Cutler, Cleveland's pick #5 overall
Cleveland gets Detroit's pick #1 overall
Denver gets Brady Quinn

If that's true, the Lions would be getting one hell of a deal!

I'd be amazed if all Denver gets back in the deal is Brady Quinn. Seems like there'd have to be another pick in there coming their way.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Samdari

How do you think Eli would have handled it if he had found out the Giants were shopping him? Any differently? Really?

Eli would have handled it just fine.

Eli gets a bad wrap about the San Diego situation and really he was just getting bad advice. Show me a 21 year old who doesn't listen to his father in that situation?

Since the second Eli has arrived in New York he has done nothing but say the correct thing and be a total pro.

If anything he gets criticized for not being vocal enough.

[JPhillips]

I'd expect almost every entrenched starting QB to behave like Cutler if they were treated similarly.

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I'd expect almost every entrenched starting QB to behave like Cutler if they were treated similarly.

/disagree. I would expect most would act like professionals and at the very least accept phone calls from the people that paid them millions of dollars.

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Eli gets a bad wrap about the San Diego situation and really he was just getting bad advice.

The Chargers created that whole situation with their tight-fisted negotiating tactics. Then, after alienating Eli, they were the ones that went public with the details.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Balldog

Heard this today from the dorky dude on ESPN, can't remember his name.

Detroit gets Jay Cutler, Cleveland's pick #5 overall
Cleveland gets Detroit's pick #1 overall
Denver gets Brady Quinn

If that's true, the Lions would be getting one hell of a deal!

I would think that the #5 pick would go from Cleveland to Denver in that scenario. Detroit getting Cutler for only dropping down 4 spots doesn't sound quite right, nor does Denver getting "only" Quinn in that situation.

[JPhillips]

Cleveland moving up doesn't make much sense either. They probably don't want another big money tackle and they'll have one or both of Sanchez/Stafford at five if they want a QB. The only they want that they might not be able to get at 5 is Curry. Is he really worth Quinn and a bunch more in salary cap?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Balldog

Heard this today from the dorky dude on ESPN, can't remember his name.

Detroit gets Jay Cutler, Cleveland's pick #5 overall
Cleveland gets Detroit's pick #1 overall
Denver gets Brady Quinn

If that's true, the Lions would be getting one hell of a deal!

Denver and Detroit swapping picks in the second and Denver getting the Dallas 3rd via Detroit probably even this out to make it good for all.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by stevew

right back at ya. I missed the part where he has a fist full of rings already. My bad.

Cause you know, QBs don't have teammates. Drew Brees is a mega choker! My bad.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

So the radio shows are buzzing this morning about how Cutler told Glazer last night that he's shocked the Broncos are trading him and didn't want to leave.

He's getting bumped up on the douchebag scale every time he opens his mouth.

FOX Sports on MSN - NFL - Cutler speaks: 'I didn't want to get traded'

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

So the radio shows are buzzing this morning about how Cutler told Glazer last night that he's shocked the Broncos are trading him and didn't want to leave.

He's getting bumped up on the douchebag scale every time he opens his mouth.

FOX Sports on MSN - NFL - Cutler speaks: 'I didn't want to get traded'

Meanwhile sounds like another team lied to their QB.

ProFootballTalk.com - Jason Campbell Declares, “I’m A Starter”

Amid published reports that the Washington Redskins are trying to swing a deal for Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler, current Redskins starter Jason Campbell made clear Wednesday night that he has no intention to serve as Cutler’s — or anyone’s — backup.

“I’m a starter,” Campbell told Brett Haber of WUSA-TV, while attending a Washington Capitals hockey game.

Campbell called the Cutler situation “just a rumor,” and he explained that the team told him when Cutler-to-D.C. rumors first surfaced last month that Campbell was still “their guy.”

But Campbell hasn’t heard that again since the rumors/reports intensified on Tuesday, when the Broncos officially placed Cutler on the trading block.

The team didn’t only give Campbell assurances of his ongoing role a couple of weeks ago. They also made their position clear to the public.

Redskins executive V.P. of football operations Vinny Cerrato told David Elfin of the Washington Times on March 17 that Campbell “is going to be our quarterback.”

Apparently, Cerrato forgot to add an important qualifier.

“Until early April.”

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

So the radio shows are buzzing this morning about how Cutler told Glazer last night that he's shocked the Broncos are trading him and didn't want to leave.

He's getting bumped up on the douchebag scale every time he opens his mouth.

FOX Sports on MSN - NFL - Cutler speaks: 'I didn't want to get traded'

You're right, because we should take the word of only one side of the story - the team that has fucked this thing up so bad they need good PR to save face with their fans.

Who to believe? Cutler and his agent say the Broncos only tried to set up a meeting on Tuesday morning, Cook couldn't reach Cutler until that evening, and by then the Broncos had released their statement. Maybe I'm biased because as a lawyer I see this kind of shit all the time with opposing counsel, but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to Cutler. Lawyers pull the "we tried to contact opposing counsel before we filed this motion but couldn't reach them" shit all the time as an excuse for springing an action on the other side. This looks quite lawyerly to me from the Broncos side of things - make a feeble, last minute attempt at contact, and when it's not immeidately returned, release a statement so they can turn a kernel of truth into a fucking oak tree of bullshit.

[Logan]

Not to mention that "I didn't want to get traded" could mean that a month ago, he didn't want to get traded.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I suppose its fair for people to see the same situation different ways. I just cannot see any other way this thing works than Cutler being upset about Shanny being fired, Cutler and Cook wanting a new contract (either from Denver or elsewhere), Cutler and Cook pouncing on the "affront" of the bungled trade talk. Why would McDaniels and the owner be pushing Cutler out of Denver (which is what they'd be doing if they truly didn't try to get in touch with him). Every day this thing passes, every story that comes up, drives down Cutler's trade value. What is the goal for Denver in that case?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This looks quite lawyerly to me from the Broncos side of things - make a feeble, last minute attempt at contact, and when it's not immeidately returned, release a statement so they can turn a kernel of truth into a fucking oak tree of bullshit.

Usually you wait until you trade someone (or until he's a free agent), to try to drive down their value.....What do the Broncos have to gain from this, what's their endgame? Do you really think they wouldn't have preferred Cutler not act like a child and play the season?

"I was surprised they decided to trade me this soon," Cutler told Glazer in his first comments since the statement was released. "I didn't want to get traded. This wasn't me. (The Broncos) had been going back and forth saying things, wanting me to be their quarterback and then they didn't."

He's a total douchebag....He demanded to be traded!!!! The Broncos tried to "apologize" for trying to improve their team, and he still acted like a little girl. Now, when they give up, and decide they're going to trade him, Cutler is all surprised and says it's not what he wanted....

[miked]

Originally Posted by molson

Usually you wait until you trade someone (or until he's a free agent), to try to drive down their value.....What do the Broncos have to gain from this, what's their endgame? Do you really think they wouldn't have preferred Cutler not act like a child and play the season?

"I was surprised they decided to trade me this soon," Cutler told Glazer in his first comments since the statement was released. "I didn't want to get traded. This wasn't me. (The Broncos) had been going back and forth saying things, wanting me to be their quarterback and then they didn't."

He's a total douchebag....He demanded to be traded!!!! The Broncos tried to "apologize" for trying to improve their team, and he still acted like a little girl. Now, when they give up, and decide they're going to trade him, Cutler is all surprised and says it's not what he wanted....

How about this perspective. You are working in sales at a company after being highly recruited. You put up some of their best sales numbers in years as the new head of sales. Your boss comes in and tells you they love you, they want you to be the head of sales for a while, the face of the company, tour around, etc. Then a few weeks later, you find out from a friend that your boss was trying to bring in a guy you knew with less experience, pay him more, and demote you to give him your current job.

You'd be happy?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Probably not, but to stretch this analogy to its breaking point, molson probably wouldn't stop going to work, stop returning his boss's emails and phone calls, and tell the media he wanted a new job with a great severance package.

[gstelmack]

And don't forget that the demotion did not come with a paycut.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Probably not, but to stretch this analogy to its breaking point, molson probably wouldn't stop going to work

Cutler said he was going to attend all mandatory camps/activities.

Coming allllll the way back around, I'm pretty sure Ksyrup and I both said that we assign blame all around. No one on this side is trying to give Cutler a free pass. I won't speak for everyone "defending Cutler," but for me, it all comes back to McDaniels getting his hand caught in the cookie jar and trying to cover it up. A lot of dumb shit on both sides has happened since then of course, but like how molson said he's always thought of Cutler as whiny, and that's why he feels the way he does, I'll always come back to what I see as the origination point.

[miked]

I'm not defending Cutler's actions, I could probably care less and of course he does seem like another whiny athlete. Just saying, money aside, we'd all be pretty pissed if in the same situation, the only difference is as an athlete he has some leverage and leeway.

[molson]

Originally Posted by miked

How about this perspective. You are working in sales at a company after being highly recruited. You put up some of their best sales numbers in years as the new head of sales. Your boss comes in and tells you they love you, they want you to be the head of sales for a while, the face of the company, tour around, etc. Then a few weeks later, you find out from a friend that your boss was trying to bring in a guy you knew with less experience, pay him more, and demote you to give him your current job.

You'd be happy?

They weren't demoting him, they were trying to trade him.

He didn't like that they wanted to trade him, so he's demanded a trade. OK

There's not really a comparison for trades in the business world. Maybe if my division manager said that they were moving me off to another company division across the country, and that they were brining in this hotshot less experienced guy. Sure, that might hurt my feelings, but it would totally depend on if I was in a place that I liked, whether I wanted to move, etc. And maybe at the last second, the deal fell through, and I'd have to stay. That might be tough. But if that's where I wanted to be all along, than I'd be relieved I was staying (because it's not like I'm worried about job security).

I never got the offense taken at trades. When you trade, you're looking for value, there's not a level of elite players that can't possibly bring back value. That makes no sense. I might really like my house, but if someone offers me a similar house plus a boat, I'm making the trade. It doesn't mean my house sucks, or that I disrepsect my house.

And aren't football players supposed to be tough? They get yelled at by coaches when they mess up, when they come to camp too fat. They get benched, cut, etc. But then when there's a trade rumor, one can't handle it emotionally and breaks down like a teenage girl? It's just so off-putting.

Any word on whether Jason Cambpell has put his house up for sale yet?

Teams will try to lowball the Broncos, I hope they stand firm. Let's see if he skips mandatory workouts and training camps.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Logan, I think I'm close to where you are. McDaniels poked this hornet's nest, but nothing Cutler has done since that point has given me any confidence in him not being a douchebag. McDaniels either, for that matter. Maybe they deserve each other.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by molson

Usually you wait until you trade someone (or until he's a free agent), to try to drive down their value.....What do the Broncos have to gain from this, what's their endgame? Do you really think they wouldn't have preferred Cutler not act like a child and play the season?

"I was surprised they decided to trade me this soon," Cutler told Glazer in his first comments since the statement was released. "I didn't want to get traded. This wasn't me. (The Broncos) had been going back and forth saying things, wanting me to be their quarterback and then they didn't."

He's a total douchebag....He demanded to be traded!!!! The Broncos tried to "apologize" for trying to improve their team, and he still acted like a little girl. Now, when they give up, and decide they're going to trade him, Cutler is all surprised and says it's not what he wanted....

Their end game is to rid themselves of Cutler and try to save face to the fans, who they know are going to be livid about this. No, I don't think they wanted Cutler for this season, because they weren't willing to do what they should have done in the first place, which is smooth things over with him. By all accounts, they didn't acknowledge they screwed up by lying to him, and then after that, McDaniels apparently had the gall to tell him he could still be traded at any point. He was foolishly playing the Parcells card in some feeble attempt to continue to maintain his dominance over the situation. He should have just sat the guy down, told him he screwed up and that the only reason he thought about Cassel is because he already knew he could be successful in his offense, but that didn't happen and now he wants to work with Cutler. Instead, it sounds like he still insisted on being the jackass. I don't think there was an apology, and even if there was, still maintaining the "...but we could still trade you at any time" crap pretty much negates the apology, I think.

As far as Cutler's comments, I believe he is referring to when this first came out. He doesn't say " I don't want to get traded, he's saying, "I didn't want to get traded." In other words,until this thing blew up, he was willing to work it out.

I'm not completely absolving him of blame, because he could have jsut accepted the situation and moved on as a Bronco. But I also don't blame him one bit for his reaction. I'd probably want to go elsewhere too, if I was the best player on the team, ran a great offense, and had the entire thing thrown away during the off-season and the new coach tried to trade me. Bowlen should have just hired a damned defensive coach and left Bates and the offense alone.

I'd really be interested to know what McDaniels told Bowlen about his plans for the offense before he hired him. Maybe this was all planned, and he got Bowlen on board with trying to upgrade using Cutler as the tradebait, I don't know.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by molson

Teams will try to lowball the Broncos, I hope they stand firm. Let's see if he skips mandatory workouts and training camps.

Any potential for lowballing will be negated, I think, by the number of teams involved. The fact that the Redskins may be involved already suggests there will be no lowball offers. Snyder's a moron.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

By all accounts, they didn't acknowledge they screwed up by lying to him, and then after that, McDaniels apparently had the gall to tell him he could still be traded at any point. He was foolishly playing the Parcells card in some feeble attempt to continue to maintain his dominance over the situation. He should have just sat the guy down, told him he screwed up and that the only reason he thought about Cassel is because he already knew he could be successful in his offense, but that didn't happen and now he wants to work with Cutler. Instead, it sounds like he still insisted on being the jackass. I don't think there was an apology, and even if there was, still maintaining the "...but we could still trade you at any time" crap pretty much negates the apology, I think.

McDaniels is clearly an idiot, but aren't you just suggesting he lie to Culter to cover up his other lie?

I don't think you were one of the posters who was all upset about the Broncos not being honest, so that wouldn't be an inconsistent position.

To me, that makes some sense. You have to lie in professional sports. If you want to trade a star player, you keep it secret. If a rumor gets out, you say, "we don't comment on trades". If a player asks you, you gotta lie about it. Or at the very least, you lie at the very end, "we're sorry for not being honest, but you're our guy, and we don't want to trade you".

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by molson

McDaniels is clearly an idiot, but aren't you just suggesting he lie to Culter to cover up his other lie?

I don't think you were one of the posters who was all upset about the Broncos not being honest, so that wouldn't be an inconsistent position.

To me, that makes some sense. You have to lie in professional sports. If you want to trade a star player, you keep it secret. If a rumor gets out, you say, "we don't comment on trades". If a player asks you, you gotta lie about it. Or at the very least, you lie at the very end, "we're sorry for not being honest, but you're our guy, and we don't want to trade you".

Well wait - they might have wanted to trade him in a scenario where they get Cassel back, but they might not otherwise want to trade him. So I'm not sure why the hypothetical discussion they should have had with Cutler would have been a lie - unless they intended to trade him regardless of who they got back. And I don't think that was the case until they botched the smooth-over sessions with Cutler and realized they had no choice but to trade him.

I think they could have been honest with him at some point shortly after the trade rumor got out - instead, they lied about it initially, and then when they acknowledged it, they didn't say they were still going to trade him, but they made the comment that he could still be traded. To me, that was unnecessary. All players know they can be traded. What that was designed to do was send a message to him, which he didn't appreciate (and I don't blame him). THEY are the ones who gambled and it blew up in their faces, so they should be the ones to apologize or at the least, work to make it right. You don't do that by reminding the player they could still be traded. Again, I just see that as a Parcells power-play comment. I'm surprised he hasn't resorted to calling Cutler "she" or "the player."

[Logan]

Originally Posted by molson

I never got the offense taken at trades. When you trade, you're looking for value, there's not a level of elite players that can't possibly bring back value. That makes no sense. I might really like my house, but if someone offers me a similar house plus a boat, I'm making the trade. It doesn't mean my house sucks, or that I disrepsect my house.

Originally Posted by molson

To me, that makes some sense. You have to lie in professional sports. If you want to trade a star player, you keep it secret. If a rumor gets out, you say, "we don't comment on trades". If a player asks you, you gotta lie about it. Or at the very least, you lie at the very end, "we're sorry for not being honest, but you're our guy, and we don't want to trade you".

If trades are no big deal and nothing to take offense to, why must the team/GM/coach lie about it?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

If trades are no big deal and nothing to take offense to, why must the team/GM/coach lie about it?

Because some players are babies.

Cutler needs to be lied to. Maybe another player doesn't.