2007 MLB Playoffs Thread

[Young Drachma]

Is anyone else's feed cutting out. My TV screen is all messed up.

[Logan]

Fox HD is fine here.

[Young Drachma]

Must be Wyoming. lol

[Rizon]

lol what better gagne pitching or canseco pitching

[DaddyTorgo]

gagne fucking blows. I don't understand why he's getting a look here at all...those last 3 balls weren't even f-ing close.

fortunately javier lopez vs. nixon is a favorable matchup

[DaddyTorgo]

predictable.

gagme fucking blew this one

[molson]

It's not over, but it sure felt like it was when I saw Gagne come to the mound.

Why is he on the playoff roster?

[Rizon]

Haha, Jobu Strikes Back.

[Rizon]

I'll bet there is alot of crying over spilled chowda right about now.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by molson

It's not over, but it sure felt like it was when I saw Gagne come to the mound.

Why is he on the playoff roster?

No f#$%ing joke. I think Francona has done a great job all year and only a couple of games has he over managed I think this might be a case of that. He overreacted and brought Hideki and Papelbon in too early. Gagne if you a going to use him is nothing more thana 6 inning guy. You need to give yourself a few innings to recover from it.
Wow 10-6. Good night. Not good back to Cleveland for 3! They come home for game 6 down 3-2 if they are lucky.

[Galaril]

Let me correct that 13-6

[SirFozzie]

Oh well. Shit happens, now a best of 5. I still think we have the advantage, especially with a over-rested Dice K in game 3, and probably Beckett in game 4.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Galaril

No f#$%ing joke. I think Francona has done a great job all year and only a couple of games has he over managed I think this might be a case of that. He overreacted and brought Hideki and Papelbon in too early. Gagne if you a going to use him is nothing more thana 6 inning guy. You need to give yourself a few innings to recover from it.
Wow 10-6. Good night. Not good back to Cleveland for 3! They come home for game 6 down 3-2 if they are lucky.

I strongly disagree that he brought them in too early. He got them through 10 innings and then had no choice to bring in Gagne. You can't manage to a 12 or 13 inning game. Once you get into the 9th you have to manage as if each inning will be the last.

This game falls on the Red Sox offense and Gagne, not Francona. He managed his bullpen perfectly considering his starter didn't make it 5.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I strongly disagree that he brought them in too early. He got them through 10 innings and then had no choice to bring in Gagne. You can't manage to a 12 or 13 inning game. Once you get into the 9th you have to manage as if each inning will be the last.

This game falls on the Red Sox offense and Gagne, not Francona. He managed his bullpen perfectly considering his starter didn't make it 5.

I guess we have to agree to disagree. Of course it is Gagne's fault and the offense but I also think it was to early to bring okajima in in the 6th. Though we somewaht blew are bullpen out which is no ones fault we at least have a day to 48 hours to rest

[Young Drachma]

The Rox will not be stopped. 4-1 lead in the 6th after a 3-run homer by Torrealba.

[Wolfpack]

Sheesh. Everyone talks up guys like Helton and Tulowitski and Holliday, but really they've struggled for the most part this postseason (Holliday's HR tonight aside). It's been Matsui, Torrealba, and anonymous pinch hitters that have done a fair amount of damage for them since they made the playoffs.

[ISiddiqui]

Typical... Red Sox fans blame everything on Gagne while Lopez and Lester are the ones that fuck things up.

Sure, Gagne had 1st and 2nd with 1 out... but that's not a position where a run is inevitable. Lopez just flat out SUCKED.

And I have no clue what the BoSox did to Gagne... he was dominant with Texas early this year (ERA+ of 215).

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Typical... Red Sox fans blame everything on Gagne while Lopez and Lester are the ones that fuck things up.

How is that typical - do Red Sox fans always blame the French?

Gange's been horrible since he came to the Red Sox. The blame is for Francona in putting him in a spot like that. (and whoever made the decision to put him on the playoff roster). Whether it's fatigue or injury, the guy's done, shut him down.

Lopez had a strong year.

[Young Drachma]

World. Series.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Sheesh. Everyone talks up guys like Helton and Tulowitski and Holliday, but really they've struggled for the most part this postseason (Holliday's HR tonight aside). It's been Matsui, Torrealba, and anonymous pinch hitters that have done a fair amount of damage for them since they made the playoffs.

No, the real damage has been done by EVERYONE on the roster. Only not hitting. Pitching and defense. In 5 of their 6 postseason games, they've given up 2 runs or less.

Herges, Hawkins, Fuentes, Affeltdt, Speier, Corpus = 19+ innings and 2 runs given up out of the bullpen.

Tulowitzki is hitting like .190 for the postseason and if he were named MVP of the NL playoffs, I wouldn't say a word about it. He's making three or four key defensive plays a night.

The amazing run continues. I hope Morales has it going tomorrow night. He's the one starter who looked pretty poor in the NLDS. A strong outing from him, win or lose, is important for IMHO.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by molson

How is that typical - do Red Sox fans always blame the French?

Gange's been horrible since he came to the Red Sox. The blame is for Francona in putting him in a spot like that. (and whoever made the decision to put him on the playoff roster). Whether it's fatigue or injury, the guy's done, shut him down.

Lopez had a strong year.

And Lopez blew the game, not Gagne... but who gets the blame? Yep. He's a nice scapegoat because he hasn't been good since the BoSox got him (what exactly did they do to him?!), but when it isn't his fault, you can't blame him.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

And Lopez blew the game, not Gagne... but who gets the blame? Yep. He's a nice scapegoat because he hasn't been good since the BoSox got him (what exactly did they do to him?!), but when it isn't his fault, you can't blame him.

Are you Gagne's brother or something?

If so, please ask him to mail his Red Sox paychecks back to the team. He's a disaster.

As for what the Red Sox "did to him", I blame the Rangers there. He's washed up, and apparently can go only about 30 innings a year. The Rangers pushed him beyond that, and now the Red Sox are paying the price.

It reminds me of Ramiro Mendoza in late '04. Is was completely obvious that the guy was done. Finally, Francona agreed, and we never saw him again after Game 3 of the ALCS. Hopefully we'll seen the end of Gagne.

[ISiddiqui]

Gagne's brother? For pointing out that he didn't blow the game but gets all the bellyaching? Though I do like the "can't go more than 30 innings", is it because you totally destroyed him when he was a pretty dominant reliever with the Rangers?

You guys remind me of Yankees fans piling on A-Rod whenever anything goes wrong with the Yanks.

[Logan]

Well, I'd blame Sox management for acquiring a guy that apparently can only go 30 innings a year.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Gagne's brother? For pointing out that he didn't blow the game but gets all the bellyaching? Though I do like the "can't go more than 30 innings", is it because you totally destroyed him when he was a pretty dominant reliever with the Rangers?

You guys remind me of Yankees fans piling on A-Rod whenever anything goes wrong with the Yanks.

If you want to blame Lopez for the loss, that's a fair argument (I personally think the game was over the moment Gagne started walking towards the mound).

But blaming the Red Sox because Gagne sucks? Are you serious?

Perhaps they "destroyed" him by hosting their baseball games in a city where the fans actually care about the team? Or maybe because they asked him to pitch the 8th inning instead of the 9th?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by molson

If you want to blame Lopez for the loss, that's a fair argument (I personally think the game was over the moment Gagne started walking towards the mound).

That's exactly the attitude I'm talking about. Gagne gets the blame. Everywhere I look, BoSox fans are going on and on about Gagne. He got one out and put runners on 1st and 2nd. That's not a good outing, but not horrible either. Lopez is the goat, but I haven't heard it.

But blaming the Red Sox because Gagne sucks? Are you serious?

I'm just trying to figure out what in the world they did to Gagne. I mean it wasn't like he was trying to come back and was totally struggling with Texas.

[DaddyTorgo]

runners on first and second with one out isn't a horrible outing?? in extra innings of a tie game??

what baseball world do you live in?? that's an ATROCIOUS outing. especially when the guy on second is a goddamm speed-demon and can score from 2nd on a single anywhere in the outfield.

fucking pathetic outing.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I'm just trying to figure out what in the world they did to Gagne. I mean it wasn't like he was trying to come back and was totally struggling with Texas.

There's 3 differences in his new surroundings.

1. Taking out of his comfort zone (closing) and asked to pitch in a variety of situations.
2. Pressure of a Pennant Race
3. Later in the year, more innings accumulated.

Those are the things the Red Sox "did" to Gagne. I think the big one is #3.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

runners on first and second with one out isn't a horrible outing?? in extra innings of a tie game??

what baseball world do you live in?? that's an ATROCIOUS outing. especially when the guy on second is a goddamm speed-demon and can score from 2nd on a single anywhere in the outfield.

fucking pathetic outing.

Because relievers don't put out those fires all the time? Please... its hardly atrocious. Atrocious is what Lopez did.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Because relievers don't put out those fires all the time? Please... its hardly atrocious. Atrocious is what Lopez did.

oh lopez was no picnic that's for sure. still not sure why he was in there instead of say lester. lopez's numbers all year have made him a righty-specialist, not a lefty specialist. and nixon tends to like the ball low...right where lopez leaves it.

but i maintain that gagne created that situation with his failure to get more than the first guy out.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

oh lopez was no picnic that's for sure. still not sure why he was in there instead of say lester. lopez's numbers all year have made him a righty-specialist, not a lefty specialist. and nixon tends to like the ball low...right where lopez leaves it.

but i maintain that gagne created that situation with his failure to get more than the first guy out.

But Gagne didn't give up the fateful hits... yet he's getting the grief as if he'd let up all 5 runs himself. Every message board I've looked it, I've seen people curse out Gagne, but Lopez tends to get a free pass.

WTF?!

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

But Gagne didn't give up the fateful hits... yet he's getting the grief as if he'd let up all 5 runs himself. Every message board I've looked it, I've seen people curse out Gagne, but Lopez tends to get a free pass.

WTF?!

Fans don't look at the game in a vacum.

It's a tight game, then then the fans see Eric Gagne come into the game. Panic city. It's like how we felt when Heathcliff Slocumb would come in a game. And he promply puts two guys on base before leaving.

He's going to get hammered for that. Lopez was no good either, but he's on a much longer leash with the fans because he had a solid year. But we're sick of seeing Gagne come in and blow games.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

But Gagne didn't give up the fateful hits... yet he's getting the grief as if he'd let up all 5 runs himself. Every message board I've looked it, I've seen people curse out Gagne, but Lopez tends to get a free pass.

WTF?!

I think the answer's fairly obvious. In a vacuum, Lopez is more culpbable. But, it's much like the Jeter-Arod thing. Jeter had a .353 OPS in the postseason while A-Rod had an .820 OPS. Yet, you won't see many Yankees fans blaming Jeter as much as A-Rod. Why? Because Jeter has earned more understanding than A-Rod in their eyes. Lopez had a 3.10 ERA in 40 innings of relief during the season. Gagne, on the other hand, had a 6.75 ERA in 19 IP.

It's just human nature to pile on the guy that's been killing you and lay off the one with a better history.

[Butter]

Kenny Lofton goes deep to give this game an interesting start. If the Reds can't win anything, hopefully the Tribe can. Go Cleveland!

[Arles]

Arizona is a mental wreck right now offensively. Melvin just needs to bunt over the next time AZ gets a baserunner and try to manufacture one run. They have to get out of their "one big inning" hope and just get a run on the board (even if that means sacrificing an out or two to do it).

[Logan]

I've been meaning to ask this all playoffs...

Cleveland's little slogan for the playoffs (whole season maybe? I don't know) is "It's Tribe Time Now!"

Is the "now" really necessary? If it wasn't in there, would someone accidentally think the "time" you're referring to is next season, or maybe 2012? The point of a catchy slogan is that it's short and to the point...the wordiness really bothers me.

Am I alone? Bueller?

[Lathum]

The Indians are doing a little to much celebrating right now

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The Indians are doing a little to much celebrating right now

My thinking exactly. Geez folks you only won 2 games. I think a veternan team like Boston will be affected by the fact that these guys and their fans Obviously think they got this series in the bag and in 5. I feel an ass wupping coming the next few games Boston in 6

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by Galaril

My thinking exactly. Geez folks you only won 2 games. I think a veteran team like Boston will be affected by the fact that these guys and their fans obviously think they got this series in the bag and in 5.

You're kidding, right? You're a Red Sox fan and you're saying that the Indians think they have the series in the bag? Come on. That's just ridiculous. I'm an Indians fan but you have *got* to be kidding me. How can you say that?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by samifan24

You're kidding, right? You're a Red Sox fan and you're saying that the Indians think they have the series in the bag? Come on. That's just ridiculous. I'm an Indians fan but you have *got* to be kidding me. How can you say that?

they are acting like they have

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by Lathum

they are acting like they have

No, sorry, no way. They're celebrating a good win. I don't see anything excessive or out of the ordinary about it.

[Logan]

Well as someone impartial to both sides, it sure looked like a very large celebration. I literally said to myself, (out loud, yes it was embarrassing) "Did they make the ALCS a best of 3?"

[Logan]

Originally Posted by samifan24

You're kidding, right? You're a Red Sox fan and you're saying that the Indians think they have the series in the bag? Come on. That's just ridiculous. I'm an Indians fan but you have *got* to be kidding me. How can you say that?

Originally Posted by samifan24

No, sorry, no way.

Your posting style makes my head hurt. It sounds like an SNL sketch.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by Logan

Your posting style makes my head hurt. It sounds like an SNL sketch.

Yes, I'm an Indians fan so yes, I'm biased. It didn't seem excessive to me. Fox showed the celebration and the post-game interview with Lofton. I'm enjoying the series, it's been a good and exciting series and that's what everyone wants.

[dime]

ironic considering that the red sox fan base and the national media have been "acting like" the ALCS was in the bag ever since the yankees were eliminated.

the indians have faced boston's best 3 starters and roughed up 2 of them...tomorrow hey are looking at a knuckleball pitcher in the rain who is coming off an injury and hasn't pitched in weeks. I think they have good reason to be confident right now.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by dime

ironic considering that the red sox fan base and the national media have been "acting like" the ALCS was in the bag ever since the yankees were eliminated.

Agreed. My friends who are Sox fans have acted this way although I realize that it holds no bearing on Sox fans in general. The national media *should* want the Sox in the WS since it would mean better ratings all around.

[molson]

Originally Posted by dime

ironic considering that the red sox fan base and the national media have been "acting like" the ALCS was in the bag ever since the yankees were eliminated.

the indians have faced boston's best 3 starters and roughed up 2 of them...tomorrow hey are looking at a knuckleball pitcher in the rain who is coming off an injury and hasn't pitched in weeks. I think they have good reason to be confident right now.

Every Red Sox fan I've talked to was rooting for the Yankees to somehow pull out the ALDS because they'd be an easier matchup for the Red Sox. So even though it'd be more fun as an Indian fan to think the Red Sox (and their fans) had already make their world series reservations - it ain't close to being true, sorry.

[BishopMVP]

We should be starting Lester tomorrow, not Wakefield. Wakefield can come out of the bullpen in the 4th/5th and do fine, while Lester has historically done horrible coming out of the bullpen. Going back to his days in the minors he has had an elaborate pre-start rhythm that isn't conducive to coming out of the pen. Oh, and please, please start Jacoby Ellsbury. He gives the team a spark in games like this.

And I know it's for the future (and the history of young arms recently, particularly Cubs and Marlins leads me to believe it's the right move), but I really, really wish we had Buchholz starting tomorrow. Or in place of Dice-K/Schilling in Games 6/7.

Also, great game by Westbrook tonight. Doesn't have great stuff, but he came out and threw first pitch strikes all night long. Against this Sox team, that's about the most important thing to do. Paul Byrd is also great at avoiding walks.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by dime

ironic considering that the red sox fan base and the national media have been "acting like" the ALCS was in the bag ever since the yankees were eliminated.

Yep... though it makes it easier to celebrate every Indians victory. Man, the BoSox fans in my office talking about sweep after Game 1 (and were pretty much talking about it before the series) was enough to make me retch.

[Galaril]

I will agree alot of Sox fans are way over the top but really that celebration with the fireworks was like they won the ALCS already. And for Molson I think said Sox fans wanted the Yankees that part is true. But not because they would have been an easier out than the Indians. I thinkit was because we are masochists when it comes to the yankees and thought the Yankees would be more entertaining. Anyways, game 4 in the rain we will see what the Sox are nade of tomorrow. And regardless of the AL winner the Rockies are going to CRUSH whomever gets in their way to the WS championship I fear.