2005-06 Soccer Thread

[Mac Howard]

I don't like to watch a team try to hold on to a one nil lead like that, particularly a team like Arsenal that can play such sweet football. A disappointing game epitomised by that finish: a soft penalty, a poor shot and a save from the 'keeper that confirmed his team's defensive effectiveness.

I trust Barca and Milan will be more entertaining for the neutral fan tonight.

[Katon]

It's all the more disappointing since they weren't even all that good at it - if Villareal could afford better strikers than Franco & Forlan, the clean sheet would've gone out the window. Compare that to the first leg, where they could've won by more than one, and it seems like Wenger should've been a bit less timid (another Wenger-Mourinho parallel?).

[daedalus]

It was a disappointing game to watch as I think both side attacking would have been very entertaining football. I think Wenger's decision to pull everyone back to help the defense was hugely influenced by Senderos' (and, eventually, Flamini's) absence(s). Their insistance on simply booting the ball out to midfield was getting ridiculous after awhile. I think the fact that Titi had no support to attack and hardly got to touch the ball made Javi Venta significantly more effective (since he wasn't spending the whole day trying to clear the ball) and he nearly killed us. Villarreal really deserved the extra time with the way they played.

I thought it was funny that Derek Rae mentioned Jose Mari having a reputation for "free-kick and penalty hunting" (nice euphamism) and he showed it. Also, I would have felt much more sympathetic to their cause if Villarreal players were not spending the whole game writhing on the ground every few minutes while thugging Arsenal players the whole game.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Katon

I haven't seen the play, but I've seen some people say that Eboue seemed to be doing fine until he looked up and saw where the ball was. If that's true, I have no sympathy whatsoever for him - try to exploit a gentleman's agreement, you deserve to concede a goal. On the other hand, if he was genuinely hurt then Spurs probably should've put the ball out.

Please excuse a momentary bit of racism and stereotyping, I can't see Manu doing that. I have not tended to see such play acting and lame tactics like that from African footballers that have played European football. Also, he's been carrying a groin injury from a few weeks ago (got hurt at the same time as Cesc, perhaps he's good now).

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by daedalus

Please excuse a momentary bit of racism and stereotyping, I can't see Manu doing that. I have not tended to see such play acting and lame tactics like that from African footballers that have played European football. Also, he's been carrying a groin injury from a few weeks ago (got hurt at the same time as Cesc, perhaps he's good now).

Drogba?

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Drogba?

Okay, you've got me on that one.

But, I mean, he plays for Chelsea, y'know?

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

I trust Barca and Milan will be more entertaining for the neutral fan tonight.

I think you're right, but here in the States, ESPN decided to show the Arse-Villareal semis, letting Setanta (a station that probably %.01 of the population has) pick up Barca-Milan.

[Blade6119]

Though as ESPN you can assume arse has a higher fan base here then the others

[MIJB#19]

Are you kidding me? How can Arsenal-Villareal be more appealing? I honestly can't even see how those two teams together could have a bigger fanbase than Barcelona or AC Milan, other than a bias towards the English league. Granted, Arsenal has been a consistent top team in England for the past 10 years, but they're still far from being in the same realm as Barca and Milan for European standards.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Are you kidding me? How can Arsenal-Villareal be more appealing? I honestly can't even see how those two teams together could have a bigger fanbase than Barcelona or AC Milan, other than a bias towards the English league. Granted, Arsenal has been a consistent top team in England for the past 10 years, but they're still far from being in the same realm as Barca and Milan for European standards.

Simply commercial appeal. Man UTD is quite well known, even to non-soccer fans...is barca or AC milan a worse team team then MAN UTD? no, but man and arse share our language and are televised on tv here FAR more often. EPL games play sometimes, were series A or spanish league never show. In my mind arse would have a far larger fan base here, but i might be mistaken

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Simply commercial appeal. Man UTD is quite well known, even to non-soccer fans...is barca or AC milan a worse team team then MAN UTD? no, but man and arse share our language and are televised on tv here FAR more often. EPL games play sometimes, were series A or spanish league never show. In my mind arse would have a far larger fan base here, but i might be mistaken

Well, I would think it would be pretty close between Arsenal, Barca, and Milan in terms of fan base. But when you figure that Barca and Milan would be playing each other, and Villareal has about zero appeal here, I would have figured it would be a no-brainer.

Also, ESPN has not hesitated in the past to show games featuring teams from two non-English speaking countries, especially Spain and Italy.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by ice4277

I think you're right, but here in the States, ESPN decided to show the Arse-Villareal semis, letting Setanta (a station that probably %.01 of the population has) pick up Barca-Milan.

It's not a case of ESPN having the pick of the two games and choosing to show Arsenal v Villarreal. ESPN does have both games, they've just decided to show the Barcelona v Milan game on ESPN Desportes. They've been trying to push that channel by shifting some exclusive stuff that appeals to the Hispanic market over to it.

Not that I care, I'm one of the .01% that has Setanta

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by Critch

It's not a case of ESPN having the pick of the two games and choosing to show Arsenal v Villarreal. ESPN does have both games, they've just decided to show the Barcelona v Milan game on ESPN Desportes. They've been trying to push that channel by shifting some exclusive stuff that appeals to the Hispanic market over to it.

Well, if that's true, it sucks for those of us in the Detroit area. I'm pretty sure it will be a while (if ever) before Deportes is offered. Hell, there isn't even a sports bar in this area that caters to soccer fans anymore

[SirFozzie]

They have english language rights to one semifinal and the final

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Are you kidding me? How can Arsenal-Villareal be more appealing? I honestly can't even see how those two teams together could have a bigger fanbase than Barcelona or AC Milan, other than a bias towards the English league. Granted, Arsenal has been a consistent top team in England for the past 10 years, but they're still far from being in the same realm as Barca and Milan for European standards.

Arsenal is an English team, 'nuff said.

I mean really, I bet far more American soccer fans know who is on Arsenal currently than can tell who is one Barca (aside from Ronaldinho) and Milan (and I think far more Americans know Henry over Shevchenko).

For most European soccer fans here in the States, the EPL is the main league.

For example, look on BigSoccer, and see where the Americans are posting? If not the US forums (National Team and MLS), they are all over the England forums.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I mean really, I bet far more American soccer fans know who is on Arsenal currently than can tell who is one Barca (aside from Ronaldinho) and Milan (and I think far more Americans know Henry over Shevchenko).

Good examples, IMO.

Take me as a case in point (an extremely casual soccer follower, but the kind that the networks need to pull to boost their ratings). I recognize the names of both Ronaldinho and Shevchenko but couldn't have guessed their teams in five tries. Henry, on the other hand, I knew.

Now, some of that probably connects the amount of coverage the EPL gets over other leagues (making it a self-fulfilling prophecy) but a lot of it goes beyond that. Bottom-line: I'll watch the EPL at length at times, and will watch English league teams in other competitions lately but I can count on one hand the number of matches I've watched more than five minutes of that didn't involve a U.S or English team (outside of the WC).

[Critch]

BBC is reporting that the English FA have offered the England job to Brazilian Luiz Felipe Scolari, the current manager of Portugal. "Big Phil" (as the English press will almost certainly call him) will take over after the World Cup.

I was hoping Steve McLaren would get the job. I wouldn't have to worry about England winning anything with Steve McLaren in the job.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Critch

BBC is reporting that the English FA have offered the England job to Brazilian Luiz Felipe Scolari, the current manager of Portugal. "Big Phil" (as the English press will almost certainly call him) will take over after the World Cup.

I was hoping Steve McLaren would get the job. I wouldn't have to worry about England winning anything with Steve McLaren in the job.

Great news, he is by far the best qualified candidate. I don't care where the manger is from, he could be Martian for all I care as long as we win a World Cup or Euro Championship. Look at how many people are getting behind Arsenal as they are an 'English' team. The actual nationality of the people involved is irrelevant, only what they stand for and the collective conciousness they produce/represent.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by Critch

I was hoping Steve McLaren would get the job. I wouldn't have to worry about England winning anything with Steve McLaren in the job.

.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

I don't care where the manger is from, he could be Martian for all I care as long as we win a World Cup or Euro Championship.

Martian O'Neill?

[AlexB]

Middlesbrough are winning me over - they are playing Steaua Bucharest in the UEFA semi.

They advanced through the QF by scoring 4 goals at home in the last hour of the second leg to come back from 3-0 down on aggregate - the winner came with pretty much the last kick!

They have found themselves in the same situation in the semi: needed 4 goals in the last hour of the 2nd leg to get to the final - they have 15 minutes to get the 4th - back to 3-3! As

[AlexB]

Middlesbrough are winning me over - they are playing Steaua Bucharest in the UEFA semi.

They advanced through the QF by scoring 4 goals at home in the last hour of the second leg to come back from 3-0 down on aggregate - the winner came with pretty much the last kick!

They have found themselves in the same situation in the semi: needed 4 goals in the last hour of the 2nd leg to get to the final - they have 15 minutes to get the 4th - back to 3-3! As before, away goals rule means that they go out if the score stays at 3-3

[AlexB]

OMFG !!!!! Same player as last time - 89 minutes on the clock! Unbe-fucking-lievable !!!!

[AlexB]

And they're through! I have never seen a club have to score 4 goals in an hour in two successive ties to get to a final. Just wow.

Sidenote: this should disqualify once and for all Steve McLaren from getting the England job: getting into this situation twice in a row is not top class management. Neither is playing 2-4-4 for an hour and getting lucky twice. But it's fantastic to watch

[marshall881]

The 'Boro fans have to be mentally, physically, and emotionally exhausted. Congrats to them and the team!

[SirFozzie]

Not just that, but making it to the FA Cup semis.. they MUST be knackered

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by marshall881

The 'Boro fans have to be mentally, physically, and emotionally exhausted. Congrats to them and the team!

They also put four past Man Utd and three past Chelsea

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Not just that, but making it to the FA Cup semis.. they MUST be knackered

Don't forget holding up 13 other teams in the premiership. Exhausting.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

Sidenote: this should disqualify once and for all Steve McLaren from getting the England job: getting into this situation twice in a row is not top class management. Neither is playing 2-4-4 for an hour and getting lucky twice. But it's fantastic to watch

I kind of agree - but then again, I have to admit its fantastic motivational management from him to get them to come back from that situation not once but twice ...

(personally I'd prefer Allardyce to get the job - I've been very impressed with his ability to work with large name signings at a mid-sized club and inspire their respect and also to knit a team from disparate individual each season regardless of how many personnel changes happen. However I'm realistic that he won't get the job because of his lack of European/International experience. My moneys on Scolari getting the job and an English coach getting the job next time around (probably Allardyce after he's taken the Newcastle job and done well at that ..)).

[daedalus]

Nice. That almost deserves a "PING: Chief Rum" thread.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I kind of agree - but then again, I have to admit its fantastic motivational management from him to get them to come back from that situation not once but twice ...

(personally I'd prefer Allardyce to get the job - I've been very impressed with his ability to work with large name signings at a mid-sized club and inspire their respect and also to knit a team from disparate individual each season regardless of how many personnel changes happen. However I'm realistic that he won't get the job because of his lack of European/International experience. My moneys on Scolari getting the job and an English coach getting the job next time around (probably Allardyce after he's taken the Newcastle job and done well at that ..)).

Allardyce ? You want to watch 6 years of England playing a 4-5-1 with long balls kicked up to Kevin Davies ?

Besides, didn't the Graham Taylor experiment teach one anything ?

[Marc Vaughan]

Allardyce ? You want to watch 6 years of England playing a 4-5-1 with long balls kicked up to Kevin Davies ?

Besides, didn't the Graham Taylor experiment teach one anything ?

Allardyce is far from a simple long ball merchant imho, his teams are more direct than some others - but they aren't 'Wimbledon' by any stretch of the imagination.

Why do I like him as a potential England manager - a few reasons really:

* He's English and so understands the english football and our media and fans in a way which a manager who hasn't coached over here might not.
* He's proved that he can gel a team of disparate individuals together time and time again during his career at Bolton (where he's traditionally picked up biggish name foreign freebies and made shuffled them into a team competing in the Premiership).
* He's proven tactically sound by his sensible management of a relatively small squad and their consistent results.
* His signings show a good eye for talent and potential, something which is obviously important with an International manager.
* He is unswayed by other peoples opinions of what he should do in his job. This is imho vital for any England manager as I often feel at times that our team is picked by the tabloid papers rather than any sort of common sense.

(although to be honest I'd quite happily watch paint dry for six years if at the end of it England had picked up a major International trophy )

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Allardyce is far from a simple long ball merchant imho, his teams are more direct than some others - but they aren't 'Wimbledon' by any stretch of the imagination.

Why do I like him as a potential England manager - a few reasons really:

* He's English and so understands the english football and our media and fans in a way which a manager who hasn't coached over here might not.
* He's proved that he can gel a team of disparate individuals together time and time again during his career at Bolton (where he's traditionally picked up biggish name foreign freebies and made shuffled them into a team competing in the Premiership).
* He's proven tactically sound by his sensible management of a relatively small squad and their consistent results.
* His signings show a good eye for talent and potential, something which is obviously important with an International manager.
* He is unswayed by other peoples opinions of what he should do in his job. This is imho vital for any England manager as I often feel at times that our team is picked by the tabloid papers rather than any sort of common sense.

(although to be honest I'd quite happily watch paint dry for six years if at the end of it England had picked up a major International trophy )

Eh - I really really dislike him, and I find the Xenophobic crap from the likes of him, Steve "I paid 7000 pounds for a coaching license" Bruce, Charlton and co pretty annoying. England needs the best manager for the job - and Allardyce hasn't done a damn thing in his career. And his style of play is meant primarily to stymie teams with greater skill - as opposed to playing good football.

Your points:

- I don't think this matters. the English cricket coaches are from Zimbabwe and Australia - that didn't stop them from winning the Ashes. Besides, Phil has experience at a level Sam never will.

- Right - but that's not what he'll get to do in England. He can't sign specific players in question.

- I don't think Bolton's squad is small per se, and they probably spend more on wages than the average Premiership team. As for tactically - eh, he's not awful, but I have visions of Sam not knowing how to meld top level talent - the non Kevin-Davies category (who's a decent player, but Sam has one, maybe 2 players who are top notch).

- See 2 - With the likes of England, spotting talent isn't exactly a big deal. For all the disagreement, if we polled 10 people here on the England starting 11 - I bet we'd all agree on 8-9 players.

- Yeah, but so is Big Phil - and the latter can command the respect of his players in a way I don't think Sam will. I'm with you on the tabloids to some extent, but isn't it a cultural thing ?

Hey, I'm rooting for England - they are my "adopted" national team. Nonetheless, I don't see Sam as the type who can take them above and beyond.

[AlexB]

Not a Big Sam fan myself from his Bolton team's style, but is this because the best chance of Bolton being successful, given they will not get the top calibre players, rather than being his preferred tactics?

The most impressive thing about Allardyce is his scientific approach to fitness, diet, tactical analysis - he is an innovator in the EPL (not just amongst English managers, but across the board) in many areas.

However, his typically forthright attitude, and frequent thumbing of authority will count against him - the FA didn;t think too much of Ol' Big Head did they

[AlexB]

Dola - just putting the case for Sam: I personally think Big Phil is the best man for the job of those who appear to be in the frame.

Personally I would have Martin O'Neill as #1 choice, Big Phil #2, and Sam #3 and the leading Englishman.

But then I am a Leicester fan, and Martin O'Neill and I haven't a bad word to say about him

[Marc Vaughan]

Eh - I really really dislike him, and I find the Xenophobic crap from the likes of him, Steve "I paid 7000 pounds for a coaching license" Bruce, Charlton and co pretty annoying. England needs the best manager for the job - and Allardyce hasn't done a damn thing in his career. And his style of play is meant primarily to stymie teams with greater skill - as opposed to playing good football.

Much as England would prefer not to admit it to win a major tournament we'll need to stifle at least one team with greater skill (Argentina, Brazil etc.) .... hence I think a manager who isn't used to having teams who have an abundance of flair would make sense.

- Right - but that's not what he'll get to do in England. He can't sign specific players in question.

Its a large part of being an international manager imho - you take a load of players who play different styles week in week out and attempt to gel them into a side who play well together. No they aren't being 'signed' in quite the same manner but the theory is the same imho.

- I don't think Bolton's squad is small per se, and they probably spend more on wages than the average Premiership team. As for tactically - eh, he's not awful, but I have visions of Sam not knowing how to meld top level talent - the non Kevin-Davies category (who's a decent player, but Sam has one, maybe 2 players who are top notch).

Again what you see as a disadvantage I see as an advantage, England only have a handful of truly 'world class' players so in my mind (regardless of what the English press might have you believe) they are the Bolton of the International level - they're competant and will be towards the top end of the spectrum ... however few people really expect them to win anything.

- See 2 - With the likes of England, spotting talent isn't exactly a big deal. For all the disagreement, if we polled 10 people here on the England starting 11 - I bet we'd all agree on 8-9 players.

Want to try that theory ..? ... also bear in mind it isn't just about selecting the 11 players who start, but about who goes onto the bench and which players fill out the squad for a specific tournament etc.

- Yeah, but so is Big Phil - and the latter can command the respect of his players in a way I don't think Sam will. I'm with you on the tabloids to some extent, but isn't it a cultural thing ?

With regards to commanding respect - I think Allardyce would be fine simply because of his attitude and personality.

With the tabloids it is a cultural thing, but is something which needs to be taken into account, obviously whoever is in charge will have advisors and so the impact can be minimised but that again can be said of most areas really.

Hey, I'm rooting for England - they are my "adopted" national team. Nonetheless, I don't see Sam as the type who can take them above and beyond.

Thats fair enough by all means, I haven't taken offence at all - to be honest thats part of the 'fun' of football and why FM does so well ... everyone 'knows' what their team/country should be doing and if only the board/FA would listen to them all would be well in the world

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Again what you see as a disadvantage I see as an advantage, England only have a handful of truly 'world class' players so in my mind (regardless of what the English press might have you believe) they are the Bolton of the International level - they're competant and will be towards the top end of the spectrum ... however few people really expect them to win anything.

Interesting - I think England's talent is admittedly overrated by the locals (I see all the mails suggesting they should be 2nd only behind Brazil amongst the favorites), but calling them Bolton does them disservice, IMO. You have 2 of the top 10 players in the world (Rooney, Gerrard), Top quality Center backs, a guy (when healthy) who's probably the world's best Left Back in Ashley Cole, and some top notch talent (Lampard, Beckham, Owen) to go along with that.

Want to try that theory ..? ... also bear in mind it isn't just about selecting the 11 players who start, but about who goes onto the bench and which players fill out the squad for a specific tournament etc.

I am curious now - in my mind, assuming a 4-4-2
you go (R to L)

Neville Terry Ferdinand/King Cole
Beckham Gerrard Carrick/Parker JoeCole
Owen Rooney

I should have expanded my general thought - how much difference do you think there will be between a 22 man squad than any 10 people will pick ? Everyone has their favorites (ie Parker, Carrick, the unnatural hatred for Jenas), but I'd be surprised if there's too much variety.

Thats fair enough by all means, I haven't taken offence at all - to be honest thats part of the 'fun' of football and why FM does so well ... everyone 'knows' what their team/country should be doing and if only the board/FA would listen to them all would be well in the world

Ain't that the truth.

[AlexB]

And Big Phil is out of the running...

[Marc Vaughan]

Interesting - I think England's talent is admittedly overrated by the locals (I see all the mails suggesting they should be 2nd only behind Brazil amongst the favorites), but calling them Bolton does them disservice, IMO. You have 2 of the top 10 players in the world (Rooney, Gerrard), Top quality Center backs, a guy (when healthy) who's probably the world's best Left Back in Ashley Cole, and some top notch talent (Lampard, Beckham, Owen) to go along with that.

I don't see comparing England to Bolton in the Premiership an insult, Bolton are a solid team who can on their day beat any other team in the division - however they've not really got the depth to handle injuries and win trophies consistently.

I agree that Gerrard is definitely one of the best players in the world, however personally I wouldn't rate Rooney in that manner - he has fantastic potential but when you compare him to other players in that position in the world today (ie. Henry, Ronaldinho etc.) I don't think he's quite there yet.

Cole I like as a player, however I'll be honest I wouldn't pick him if I was a manager - he's got fantastic ability, but is a little too quick to bomb forward for me .. I like defenders who put defending first.

If Cole was playing for Brazil then he'd fit in nicely, however England don't generally approach things in that manner and so for me while he might be 'world class' he isn't in the role England need him to play.

Lampard and Terry are to me our other world class players, Beckham is still a very good player (although not in his prime now imho) however the biggest problem we have is simply that our defense is notoriously injury prone and we don't have a goalkeeper who inspires confidence in the same way that we did with Seaman a few years back.

And don't ask me about our left wing position

PS> With picking the squad take into account current injuries - that makes things much more difficult, if an England manager didn't have to shuffle things for injuries then the job would be much much easier - but as I've indicated England are 'Bolton' our first 11 is pretty competitive, its what you do as cover when they're injured thats a large part of the problem ...
I still remember how aimless England looked under Svein a while back when Rooney had to come off injured - he had no plan 'b' and the team stuttered to a half, Allardyce appears to me to be someone who is used to adapting to circumstances regardless of how unexpected they might be.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

And Big Phil is out of the running...

To be honest I'm kind of glad, if he couldn't handle the amount of pressure he recieved from the media over the job speculation then he definitely would have found it difficult once a major tournament had started ... as such I think its better for both England and Phil that he's put himself out of the running (and personally I respect the fact that he doesn't like media attention butting into his personal life, however that isn't something he could avoid as an England manager).

[Marc Vaughan]

GK: Paul Robinson
DL: Ashley Cole
DC: John Terry
DC: Jamie Carragher
DR: Gary Neville
ML: Joe Cole
MC: Steven Gerrard
MC: Frank Lampard
MR: David Beckham
SC: Micheal Owen
SC: Wayne Rooney

Which is a nearly identical team to you - however to me this shows the lack of depth that England have available, it also doesn't show what who we'd pick if we selected the squad and what our subs would be.

For instance if I was England manager I'd have been pushing Shaun Wright-Phillips to move clubs to somewhere he'd have been a first team regular .. if he'd done so he'd have gone in before David Beckham on my team sheet.

Similarly I'd have Dean Ashton on the bench instead of Peter Crouch, which is something I doubt many people would do .. but I'm convinced he'd work at that level

[Crapshoot]

I love Carragher - I think he's extraordinary, and his performance in Istanbul is the stuff dreams are made of (I'm a Liverpool fan). But in terms of ability, Rio just dwarfs him - and I'd want some pace in my back line alongside Terry.

[Crapshoot]

Dola,
I'm definitely an Ashton fan as well. I wonder why premiership clubs don't give the Dean Ashton/ Darren Bent types more of a shot - usually, only the smaller clubs do it.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I love Carragher - I think he's extraordinary, and his performance in Istanbul is the stuff dreams are made of (I'm a Liverpool fan). But in terms of ability, Rio just dwarfs him - and I'd want some pace in my back line alongside Terry.

Carragher I'd pick for a couple of reasons, main one being that he never gives in and always gives 100%.

Second reason is simply that Rio still tries to dribble with the ball from the wrong areas at times (he has got much better at this in recent years, but its still a worry for me - Joe Cole is the same for me, although because we have next to no cover on the left he's safe on the team list), this is something that can be fatal at an International level and (as those of you who've seen me play FM know) I prefer the idea of a solid defense first and foremost .... if you never let in a goal then you never lose sort of approach

I agree with you on the 'pace' side of things, but I'd prefer to risk that (which is offset by both Carragher and Terry's strong positional ability) rather than let Rio have a rush of blood to his feet and lose the ball in the wrong position ....

[Mac Howard]

Sorry, Marc, the only way England resemble Bolton is in their lack of depth - the players themselves and their playing styles are as different as chalk and cheese. Your first eleven selection also confirms crapshoot's statement that a poll of players would lead to 8 or 9 of them appearing in almost everyone's selection.

England's additional problem is lack of balance. A midfield of Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard and Cole may well be as skillful a quartet as any team can put out in total but is woefully lacking in defensive qualities. Only Gerrard can make a good defensive tackle but even his inclination is to go forward at every opportunity. If England fail in this coming World Cup, and I think they will, then it will be because of their vulnerability to being dominated physically in midfield. I'm also not convinced about Cole out left - another imbalance there still.

I tend to be in the group that thinks managers should be of the same nationality as the team. Nothing to do with xenophobia but the insistance that the coach is a part of the team. It's a national team and the lack of a quality coach should no more be solved by using a non-national than we should solve England's lack of a defensive midfielder by playing Makelele. The whole point of national football is that it's a competition between the best that nations can put out and that, in my view, should include the manager.

However I would not force that on England unless it were applied by FIFA to all nations.

Allardice, I think, would be a big risk. He currently has no real credentials that qualify him as England coach. I'm not saying that he couldn't do it but it would be a risk. I would prefer McClaren though there's no short of risk there also. The truth is, no England coach can show significant experience of the international game but I guess that situation will continue if we now choose another foreigner.

[Marc Vaughan]

rry, Marc, the only way England resemble Bolton is in their lack of depth - the players themselves and their playing styles are as different as chalk and cheese. Your first eleven selection also confirms crapshoot's statement that a poll of players would lead to 8 or 9 of them appearing in almost everyone's selection.

The comparison with Bolton was meant to be about the squad depth and their level of ability compared to the teams they're up against not a direct quality for quality comparison between the England and Bolton team.

(which I hope most people managed to realise)

As I indicated in my previous post the first elevens being similar isn't too much of a surprise simply because of that aforesaid lack of depth - the interesting part would be the subs and rest of the squad which are picked simply because England have a strong starting 11 (when they're all fit) but somewhat limited range in backup. Seeing as for nearly every major tournament at least one or two of the 'ideal' 11 is injured how adaptable the coach is to these situations is very important imho ..

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by daedalus

Nice. That almost deserves a "PING: Chief Rum" thread.

lol...I was wondering if anyone would remember I'm a Boro fan. It's been a difficult year, between another bout of injuries (like last year) and maddeningly inconsistent play.

The poor league season, though, has been more than held up by this amazing run to the UEFA Final, and also their strong run to the semis for the FA Cup.

Hopefully we can build on this and get back into Europe through league play next year.

BTW, does the UEFA champ get a bid into the competition next year. I had never thought to find out. Of course, the CL did it for Pool last year, but this is not the CL, and this is not Pool.

[Critch]

Looks like you may have to re-think the England line-ups. Wayne Rooney carried off against Chelsea, didn't look good at all.

On another board I read there are some people are adding 2+2 and coming up with 5 about Mourinho wearing a Portugal scarf instead of a Chelsea one at full time, he's the replacement for Big Phil? Gabriele Marcotti (UK soccer journalist and Chelsea fan) has been predicting Mourinho to leave for quite a while, maybe he's got it right?

[AlexB]

Mourinho chucked his medal into the crowd as well as his jacket: another sign that he is off?

Sky Sports were told that Rooney's injury was not as bad as 1st thought, but he has just been shown leaving on crutches, and Fergie wouldn't say anything positive or negative. Worrying for England

[daedalus]

On the one hand, my initial thought is, "that's impossible." After all, he's the highest paid manager in the game by a significant amount (I believe 10-and-change to Sven's 6-and-change in second place). He's got the backing from his owner to do whatever he feels like. Most important of all, he hasn't taken the CL with Chelsea. YET.

On the other hand, after rethinking about it, I can see Mourinho's ego telling him to do the impossible (Portugal not underachieve) since, if anyone can do it, it would take him. And he already HAS a CL ring. So the last MAJOR would be a WC ring.