Star Wars: Episode VII

[flere-imsaho]

I thought that at first, too, but Driver made it work. He made Ren a very compelling character - clearly conflicted, not in control of himself, impetuous, etc....

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Edward64

When he took off his mask, the first thing I thought was "is his hair permed?".

I would have picked someone else or at least make him look less ... er, dorkish?

Looks aside, I enjoyed his acting with Han just before the patricide.

They definitely went for a "Benedict Cumberbatch look"

with "spoiled French King" hair

[bob]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I would have picked someone else or at least make him look less ... er, dorkish?

like this?

[CrimsonFox]

Just saw it last night. Really enjoyed it.

There were nits and pieces here and there that I said "Huh??"
or "Why?" but all in all I liked the characters and writing and directing a lot more than the prequels.

Picky things:
Poe was TOO Han. His dialogue or delivery was just obnoxiously Han Solo. "Hey guys. I'm the best pilot Watch me be the best pilot and ooo I say snarky things to evil." Show don't tell. I definitely saw a more modern approach to comedy dialogue with him.
I don't know why they needed to do another Father/Son Rebel/Sith thing again. Your son is a sith...riiiiiiiight.
I don't know why they needed to start things off with another "Let's hide crap in a droid". There are more things you can do. However I loved BB8. Droids are fun.
That thing in the bar. Jeez they went for both a Yoda clone AND another black stereotype. Sheesh. Reggae??? Jamaican accent???

Lucas vs Abrams...
Lucas style was always more melodramatic with the whole world. Everything about it. Everything was serious and stiff and rigid. Any humor came from any of the actors that improvised or added it themselves. There was more a lightness to the action and characters and dialogue. A more human and accessible quality with Abrams' characters. There were serious parts but they were definitely done differently. Like POe's death at the beginning. It was something that juyst "happened" without a lot of dramatic tension or music buildup. Reactions to things were more explosive. Like Finn running to save Rey. No Nooo Nooo NOO!! NOOO! NO!!!! Heck every reaction he had broke the Lucas mold.
The other thing: Lucas was meticulous (anal) about his world. He filled every edge and space of the world with alien stuff with background with people with things of the future. That was one of his greatest strengths. That seemed missing here in places. Tho I'd rather have good dialogue and actors and story than se aliens have a picnic behind dull lifeless characters any day.

I liked seeing Chewbacca. Was indifferent to C3PO and R2D2.
The prequels ruined those two for me by making them overly stupid.
Glad they didn't overuse them here.

Someone pointed out something about Finn. That his thing about having been in the military since birth was totally bogus. I agree with that. He in no way acted like a soldier at all just in how he stood and marched. Didn't bother me during the movie though. I LOVED him as a character. Every moment he wasn't on the screen I missed him. TOtally honest "HOLY S$@!!" kind of character. I must be honest tho. I didn't think anyone but a jedi could use a light saber. Thoughts their jediness was what turned it on.
The "hilt" if the red light saber was totally silly. Look ma! I just cut off my thumbs turning it on

Ren was awesome. Loved his voice/mask.

One big overall wtf was like where all these evil ships came from and where this uberplanet came from. So like they destroyed all that crap in the previous one didn't they? Guess it has been a couple decades since. But was all this First Order and ships and planets already built? and the rebels just not know about it during "Return of the Jedi"?

Yeah this is all picky stuff. I enjoyed the movie more for the characters than anything else.
Finn, BB8, and Ren made it for me.

Oh yeah...the actor that played Finn has a strong british accent. heh why was he speaking american when the jedi girl was british
what? only jedi can be british?
I also really liked that we were finally seeing stormtroopers as people and not robots which they always seemed like in all the other films.

WAS SO THANKFUL WE WEREN'T DROWNED WITH CGI!

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by JAG

Vader was able to read Luke's mind in their final battle to find out about Leia, but he wasn't able to read Leia's to find the location of the secret Rebel base. Do we have an explanation for how this was possible?

Lucas wrote the script?

[Draft Dodger]

the kids and I watched the 3 originals last night (theatrical versions) and I have a few observations

- the originals have just as many plot holes and minor quibbles as the newest one. Like, when Han, Luke and Leia escape the Death Star and realize the Imperials are tracking them, why would they go directly to the damn rebel base? and who does Princess Leia's hair?
- after years of watching the special editions, it was kind of jarring to watch a New Hope again without the fixed effects. The attack on the Death Star was particularly underwhelming in retrospect - there were never more than 3 x-wings or tie fighters on the screen.
- that said, it's totally worth it to avoid some of the SE "enhancements" like, of course, the Han/Greedo scene, the terrible new song in Jabba's palace, or, most egregious, that horrendous Han/Jabba scene added to EP IV.
- similarly, it was fascinating to watch that technology advance over 6 years (and 6 viewing hours) from EP IV to EP VI.
- Luke and Leia being siblings is one of the dumbest and most needless plot "twists" in the entire series. It served no purpose other than to back Lucas into a corner that he really couldn't fix in the prequels.
- the improvement in the dialogue between EP IV (Lucas screenplay) and V (Kasdan screenplay) is almost immeasurable.
- I'd probably rank them V, IV, VII, VI, III, I, II or something similar. Which means 3 of the top 4 SW movies weren't directed (or solely written) by Lucas.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by JAG

Vader was able to read Luke's mind in their final battle to find out about Leia, but he wasn't able to read Leia's to find the location of the secret Rebel base. Do we have an explanation for how this was possible?

Well Leia's resistance to the mind probe was considerable...

[Edward64]

Finished watching Ep 1-3. I enjoyed watching them again for the sake of watching them again but remembered why I didn't like them.

Ep 1 - Jar Jar. Too irritating and comical. But the Sith fight scene was the best of the series!
Ep 2 - Like this the best of the 3. Still too much CGI of strange/comical creatures but the last 30 min or so with fight scenes was pretty cool
Ep 3 - How Anakin "broke", how Padme was reduced to irrelevance (vs Ep 1), and the awful love scenes just didn't work for me

Going to watch Ep 7 again tomorrow.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Oh yeah...the actor that played Finn has a strong british accent. heh why was he speaking american when the jedi girl was british
what? only jedi can be british?

I read this interesting article that the accents aren't actually random, but indicate from where the character comes from. In that the British accented characters are from or spent substantial time in Coruscant, while the American accent actors are from other parts of the galaxy. This is also indicated in Natalie Portman's Queen Amadala in the prequals - she seems with her normal speaking voice in Naboo, but when in Coruscant and in the Senate, she puts on an affected British accent.

Which, actually, plays into Rey's parentage interestingly - in that I think there is very little chance she's Han and Leia's daughter as some have speculated. It points more and more towards being Luke and some woman from the capital (who may have taught her how to speak in the Capital/British accent).

Anyways, I just saw Ep7 again in IMAX 3D tonight and I'm even more convinced that Rey is Luke's daughter. In addition, seeing it in IMAX was awesome, but 3D didn't add anything really to it aside from the dogfight scenes. (In addition, it interestingly made the flaws of the movie even more apparent to me - I think on second view, I may downgrade my score from 7/10 to 6/10)

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Well Leia's resistance to the mind probe was considerable...

One of the interesting things on rewatch I noticed was that Kylo Ren was able to extract quite a bit from Rey before she was able to push back on revealing the map. Maybe it involves active fighting against it if one is a Force user - Luke was concerned more with how to kill Vader to actively fight against revealing that Leia was his sister.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

One of the interesting things on rewatch I noticed was that Kylo Ren was able to extract quite a bit from Rey before she was able to push back on revealing the map. Maybe it involves active fighting against it if one is a Force user - Luke was concerned more with how to kill Vader to actively fight against revealing that Leia was his sister.

Well Rey was learning her powers as she went along.


Also something to note about Leia, IIRC during the auditions the Luke actors recited a line about "she knows the art of mind control" or something like that. So presumably somebody could be trained to resist mind reading. Not sure if that would be canon however.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Well Rey was learning her powers as she went along.

I meant like the second before. Which, btw, includes an absolutely fascinating line, which I thought was throwaway the first time I saw it - where Kylo Ren mentions that he pulled out of Rey that she had been dreaming of oceans and an island in the middle of that ocean... does that sound familiar to anyone else (esp where they end up in the final scene)?

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I read this interesting article that the accents aren't actually random, but indicate from where the character comes from. In that the British accented characters are from or spent substantial time in Coruscant, while the American accent actors are from other parts of the galaxy. This is also indicated in Natalie Portman's Queen Amadala in the prequals - she seems with her normal speaking voice in Naboo, but when in Coruscant and in the Senate, she puts on an affected British accent.

Which, actually, plays into Rey's parentage interestingly - in that I think there is very little chance she's Han and Leia's daughter as some have speculated. It points more and more towards being Luke and some woman from the capital (who may have taught her how to speak in the Capital/British accent).

My boss is utterly convinced that she's Obi Wan's granddaughter. He has literally no evidence to back this up, but the accent thing may have something to it.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

My boss is utterly convinced that she's Obi Wan's granddaughter. He has literally no evidence to back this up, but the accent thing may have something to it.

I believe she is the daughter of Obi Wan's until now unknown daughter and Luke. My evidence is here hearing Obi Wan's voice during her flashback and the way she holds her light saber. (not much I will admit)

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by rowech

I believe she is the daughter of Obi Wan's until now unknown daughter and Luke. My evidence is here hearing Obi Wan's voice during her flashback and the way she holds her light saber. (not much I will admit)

She seems a little young if it has been thirty or so years "in universe". It would mean old Ben Kenobi was tagging something right up til the end!

[rowech]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

She seems a little young if it has been thirty or so years "in universe". It would mean old Ben Kenobi was tagging something right up til the end!

His granddaughter, not his daughter.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by rowech

His granddaughter, not his daughter.

My bad. Missed the "grand" part of the conversation! It's still early.

[Brian Swartz]

It's been interesting reading some of the comments here the last day or two. A lot of the reasons people hate on the prequels don't resonate with me. Ren's acting in Han's death scene? I thought that was one of the weakest parts of the movie, not a strength. Rey's acting was the strong point by a mile, and good enough by itself to make me consider going to see it a second time(also to see if the things that bother me really do so again). The OT training sequences with Yoda/Luke being the weak point of those movies? To the contrary, I think they were one of the best parts, not for the training per se but the interaction between the two. The writing of stuff like that is a huge part of what's missing in the newer movies to an extent(prequels have some good stuff, but it's definitely weaker).

So basically, back to my original statement. I'm out of touch on this stuff. Clearly most fans want things I don't. In that, this thread has been quite educational.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Why does the entirety of pretty much everything Vader does in 4-6(after being, you know, virtually dismembered and burned) not count?

I already went over this. Just because he did something incredibly strong doesn't mean he couldn't have done more if he hadn't been weakened. Also, one of the things Yoda teaches Luke is that concentration is very important for successfully using the force. It seems pretty obvious that a crossbow blast would be powerful enough to make Kylo be at less than full concentration.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

The OT training sequences with Yoda/Luke being the weak point of those movies? To the contrary, I think they were one of the best parts, not for the training per se but the interaction between the two.

I don't know if this is directed at me because I mentioned the training, but just to clarify I was saying that I felt the Yoda/Luke training didn't accomplish much in the way of actual Jedi training for Luke, not that it wasn't well-acted nor a good & important part of the story (it was both those things).

I was just saying it's easy to overestimate the extent to which Yoda actually instructed Luke. Luke wasn't there long, and didn't accomplish a lot besides learning about the Dark Side (which was key, of course).

The writing of stuff like that is a huge part of what's missing in the newer movies to an extent(prequels have some good stuff, but it's definitely weaker).

Huh. Do you mean what's missing is more of the "slow-down", "mythos" stuff? I guess I could see that - VII is definitely more "action-y".

[stevew]

Originally Posted by rowech

I believe she is the daughter of Obi Wan's until now unknown daughter and Luke. My evidence is here hearing Obi Wan's voice during her flashback and the way she holds her light saber. (not much I will admit)

yeah, this makes a lot of sense.

Also would make some sense if perhaps Obi Wan's daughter was a jedi of some sort and turned on Luke at some point. Luke defeats her, but realizes he needs to stash the kid.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Saw it today.

Aside from Harrison Ford I thought the best actor was Wall-E.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I'm even more convinced that Rey is Luke's daughter.

I'm actually amazed that there's any real doubt about that anywhere.

[tarcone]

Just got back from seeing it.
Wow. Lots of great stuff in there. Just seeing Han Solo and Chewy. Or Leia. Or R2D2. Never a C3PO fan and even less so now. Liked the other voice better.

Great movie. Very well done and has me wanting more.

When does episode 8 come out?

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Just got back from seeing it.
Wow. Lots of great stuff in there. Just seeing Han Solo and Chewy. Or Leia. Or R2D2. Never a C3PO fan and even less so now. Liked the other voice better.

what do you mean better?
It's still Anthony Daniels. And seriously the prequels made me hate seeing R2 and C3 completely because of how stupid they made them there

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

don't know if this is directed at me because I mentioned the training,

Not directed at anyone in particular. There were 2-3 people who mentioned it was their least favorite part of the original trilogy or something to that effect.

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

you mean what's missing is more of the "slow-down", "mythos" stuff? I guess I could see that - VII is definitely more "action-y".

Sort of, but it's not even just the mythos. In reality this issue is probably even bigger than this thread, bigger than Star Wars itself. Perhaps it speaks more to simply how movies and changed, and there's a chance I'm just an old-fashioned fuddy-duddy(though not yet quite 40).

Some examples:

"Damn fool, I knew you were going to say that" "Who's the more foolish, the fool, or the fool who follows it?"

"This one a long time have I watched, all his life as he looked away ... Never his mind on where he was! What he was doing!"

Probably the single best example is the conversation between Luke, Yoda, and Obi-Wan's spirit as he heads off to Cloud City to rescue Han/Leia/etc. in V:

Luke -- "But I can help them. I feel the force!"

Obi-Wan -- "But you cannot control it. This is a dangerous time for you. ... It is you and your abilities the Emperor wants. That is why your friends are made to suffer."

Yoda -- "Stopped they must be. On this all depends. Only a fully trained jedi knight, with the force as his ally, will conquer Vader and his Emperor. If you end your training now, if you choose the quick and easy path as Vader did, you will become an agent of evil."

Luke -- "And sacrifice Han & Leia?"

Yoda -- "If you honor the cause for which they fight? Yes"

Comparing the lead-up to the death star assaults in ANH and TFA will produce similar results. This kind of thing just isn't present in the newer movies. I rewatch those parts now and there's an atmosphere, a level of tension between the characters and the events, etc. that is far superior despite the of-course dated visuals.

I think it is a fair assessment that TFA is simply more action-y or whatever, but I don't think that's an improvement. Good action is a good thing of course, and an essential part of any adventure tale to a degree, but for me it's only valuable to the extent that it relies on characters that are set up by good writing and dialogue. The original trilogy comes from a time before the modern invention of the 'effects movie' -- the effects weren't good enough to carry a movie on their own so if you didn't have good story backing it up, you had jack squat basically. The Force Awakens is hardly the only modern movie to rely, if it does as it seems to me after first viewing, too much on such things but it does take away a big part of why I like stuff like the originals. To use another analogy, I still get a lot of enjoyment out of stuff like Doctor Zhivago because of the fantastic writing and conversations.

FWIW.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I was just saying it's easy to overestimate the extent to which Yoda actually instructed Luke. Luke wasn't there long, and didn't accomplish a lot besides learning about the Dark Side (which was key, of course).

Eh? Luke goes from barely being able to lift one rock onto another from being able to lift 10 things at once high into the air, including many rocks and R2D2. And this is just after a few months of training with Yoda, after THREE years between the Battle of Yavin to the Battle of Hoth (Timeline of galactic history - Wookieepedia - Wikia) where Luke's force advancement seemed to barely improve. The difference is exponential.

I think people tend to forget how much time elapsed between the end of ANH to the beginning of ESB. They think it almost picks up from where it left off, instead of 3 years later.

[stevew]

I always fast forward through all the Yoda scenes in both ESB and ROTJ

[Edward64]

Long read (#8 primarily) but possibly .... "peace and harmony, it will bring".

10 Reasons 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' Is the Best 'Star Wars' Film Ever Made*|*Seth Abramson

8. The Force Awakens has no plot holes; it's just in the uneviable position of having to continue telling one of the longest and most complex stories ever rendered on film, and having to do so within a two-hour runtime.

Most of the things that confuse you about this movie the first time around are explained via throwaway lines, as you realize when or as you see the film a second time. It's not an elegant solution to the problem of the big-screen epic, but it does mean that, plot-wise, everything actually does come together in The Force Awakens.

[EagleFan]

The link loses all credibility with the title alone.

Edit: Oh, I see what he did there...helps to click...

[Eaglesfan27]

I saw the movie on my Birthday, January 4th and just remembered I wanted to read this thread but not before I saw the movie in case there were any spoilers.

Anyway, I thought the movie was excellent. It captured the magic of the first 3 movies for me, and my 7 year old daughter was able to enjoy it. I couldn't have asked for much more. So excited to see the next movie with her in 18 months or so.

[Dutch]

I watched it again with friends last week and caught a few more references that helped me grasp all that was going on. All in all, I think this was a very well put together segue. Not perfect, lots of questions that leave you wondering what's up, but lots of easy ways to answer them moving forward if they choose to.

[Eaglesfan27]

Having now read this thread, I think people are overrating Kylo's strength. There were several points in the movie where they alluded to his fear that he would never be as strong as Vader and his relative lack of strength. Between that, his injury, and Rey's obvious vast potential, I had no issues with her beating him in their first duel. Also, he is a character who is "being torn apart" and has internal conflicts which limit him as a dark jedi/sith.

[Dutch]

Yeah, and Rey is clearly being set up to be some sort of ultimate Jedi with very few weaknesses.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Having now read this thread, I think people are overrating Kylo's strength.

As I pointed out, on rewatch I underrated Kylo Ren's strength. The guy is really a bad ass with the Force - not just stopping blaster bolts in mid air, but knocking people out in an instant and throwing people 30 feet into the air like it's nothing.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Yeah, and Rey is clearly being set up to be some sort of ultimate Jedi with very few weaknesses.

Which, btw... I'd love to see Rian Johnson (screenwriter for Ep 8 and 9 and director for Ep 8) upend a bit. I was suggesting that it would be really awesome if Rey fell to the dark side.

Maybe even a plot where Rey falls but Kylo Ren gets redeemed and Kylo Ren has to defeat Rey.

[Kodos]

People forget that Kylo Ren had already been blasted by Chewbacca. That's gonna even the odds a bit in a fight.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Kodos

People forget that Kylo Ren had already been blasted by Chewbacca. That's gonna even the odds a bit in a fight.

He threw Rey 30 feet up in the air and smashed her against a tree like nothing after he'd been blasted by Chewbacca. People forgot that a lot more.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Kodos

People forget that Kylo Ren had already been blasted by Chewbacca. That's gonna even the odds a bit in a fight.

I don't think it's forgotten so much as ignored by people who refuse to accept that the injury could've weakened or even distracted Kylo Ren.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

He threw Rey 30 feet up in the air and smashed her against a tree like nothing after he'd been blasted by Chewbacca. People forgot that a lot more.

He did something powerful at one point in the fight means that the injury couldn't have hurt or distracted him at a later point in the fight?

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

He threw Rey 30 feet up in the air and smashed her against a tree like nothing after he'd been blasted by Chewbacca. People forgot that a lot more.

Hysterical strength - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Kodos]

The Force requires concentration. Certainly a blast to your abdomen is going to hamper one's ability to concentrate.

[ISiddiqui]

Soo... first it was Kylo Ren was so badly weakened by the Chewbacca bolt that it was impressive he could fight to begin with, then the utter ease he tossed Rey about after the shot can be (Jedi?) hand waved away because of 'hysterical strength'? Really?

In addition, even after he got force beaten by Rey, he was winning that fight until she 'remembered' the Force and immediately became a light saber master.

Is the "Kylo Ren really wasn't that powerful / was so badly injured" thing a way for folks to reconcile the ridiculousness of that final piece? I mean at least the people who embrace the Rey is an absurdly powerful Force user thing cling to it, no matter what silliness it may lead to.

[ISiddiqui]

Boyega says Ep 8 will be much darker in tone, which I'm really excited for!! (unless that means it'll just be a copy of ESB which was much darker in tone than ANH ):

Episode VIII is 'Much Darker' in Tone, Says John Boyega

I want dark side Rey!!! Think of the shock plot twist that would be?

[larrymcg421]

I've simply said that a crossbow blast could've injured Kylo enough that at one point in the fight the pain causes him to lose his concentration. In fact, we SAW this happen at one point in the fight when he stops and starts hitting his side where he got shot.

So although the pain did cause him to lose his concentration at one point in the battle, you're arguing that it couldn't have caused him to lose his concentration later in the battle because he did something powerful earlier in the battle.

[ISiddiqui]

But he didn't lose concentration. At all. It's evident from when he goes from winning to losing. He tries to 'turn' Rey. Rey closes her eyes, thinks about the Force and all of a sudden has a master of lightsaber battle she didn't have a second ago. It's not supposed to assume that Kylo Ren lost concentration, but rather that Rey called upon the Force to have her defeat Ren.

[larrymcg421]

But he DID lose concentration. The pain clearly bothered him at one point in the battle so it's incredibly absurd that it couldn't have been a factor at another part in the battle.

I think you are supposed to assume that the injury weakened Ren, because JJ Abrams deliberately includes an earlier scene showing the power of that crossbow blaster.

[Warhammer]

I think we are reading way too much and too little in this.

It cracks me up whenever people talk about Star Wars how everything HAS to be black and white.

Anakin couldn't have been the chosen one because Obi-Wan defeated him in one fight.

Obi Wan was garbage, he was always getting his ass kicked.

Darth Maul was a total bad ass, he took on two Jedi and won, outside of Obi Wan lucking out!

Etc.

Did Michael Jordan always out perform his opponents? No, he had off nights. Dan Marino is arguably the best QB of all time, but Joe Montana was better in Super Bowl 19. My son beat me the other day in checkers, but I beat him two weeks ago while he was distracted by TV. Adversity causes a variety of responses in people, some can use it to focus even more on the task on hand. Others melt under the added pressure. Look at people who crack under the pressure of a test, I always excelled at taking tests, my problem was focusing on the day to day grind of homework or paperwork. To this day, as a salesman, I shine in the face to face meetings with customers, turning the black eye of a product issue into a plus for my company. Answering unexpected questions during a sales meeting. What I have always struggled with? Call reports, getting installations into our installed user database, etc., these are the easy part of a sales job, but I struggle with them.

Even the best of the best, have off days, or have periods they are not at their best. The Star Wars movies have made it clear throughout, that a Force user is best when they can focus.

In TPM, Qui Gonn is holding his own, until he suffers a momentary lapse of focus after Maul lunges at him, Maul uses the opening to put him down.

In AotC, I have always felt Dooku's smack talk makes Obi-Wan press which leads to his wounding. Anakin is off balance over the death of the other Jedi.

In RotS, Anakin is much more focused, and overcomes Dooku. At the end, as Vader, he is off balance and loses to a more focused Obi Wan.

In ESB, Luke actually gets the better of Vader until he is distracted by Vader throwing objects at him, which puts Luke off his game.

In RotJ, Luke is fighting defensively, and holding his own. Vader oversteps, Luke snaps, becomes completely focused and kicks Vader's ass.

Now, this may all be correct, from a certain point of view. My point though, is focus is critical to effective use of the Force. If you have internal conflict, you will have focus intermittently. You might focus for 30 seconds at a time, but you do not have total focus.

In the case of Ren, if he is focused on a task, he is extremely powerful. He is shown to be so against the village. No one there can match his ability, he knows he can overcome all of them. But he fails in his task, getting the droid and the map. So now he questions himself. Every time there is a failure, he snaps. He kills Han, good for him. As he is fixated on him, Chewie shoots him. From here on, fatigue/injury takes a toll, but it is another failure on his part, this time to protect himself. He begins to question himself.

He fights Rey, does well and knocks her out. This untrained force user gives him more of a fight than he bargains for. Eventually, he defeats him. He becomes over confident and non-chalantly goes to get the saber, but Rey focuses, and overcomes his grab. He tastes failure again. She takes him out this time, but cannot finish him off due to the earthquake.

Given what we have seen, none of this is out of the realm of possibility. Ren is a powerful force user, but he has stability issues, so he will show flashes of brillance, followed by WTF? moments.

[flere-imsaho]

This is the point in the conversation where I think I back away slowly from ISiddiqui.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

But he DID lose concentration.

He really didn't. I specifically looked for it on rewatch - he was totally in charge of the battle and his own power until Rey closed her eyes, channeled the Force and suddenly became badass lightsaber warrior. Watch the movie again. Look for it specifically.