Official 2011-12 College Basketball Thread

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Mizzou has just been crazy to watch this year. If you ignore the score and just watched the game, you felt like Mizzou was a bit off tonight. In the end, they don't look very good and win by nearly 40?!?!?! Goodness me.

William and Mary coming to town on Sunday. If we can sneak by them, we're likely looking at a huge matchup of undefeated teams in the Braggin' Rights game a week from tonight.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Mizzou has just been crazy to watch this year. If you ignore the score and just watched the game, you felt like Mizzou was a bit off tonight. In the end, they don't look very good and win by nearly 40?!?!?! Goodness me.

William and Mary coming to town on Sunday. If we can sneak by them, we're likely looking at a huge matchup of undefeated teams in the Braggin' Rights game a week from tonight.

Can't wait. Been going to that game for years, the last couple haven't even sold out. I think it is going to be back this year in full force. They are a lot of fun to watch.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by panerd

Can't wait. Been going to that game for years, the last couple haven't even sold out. I think it is going to be back this year in full force. They are a lot of fun to watch.

Kiel Center is going to be nuts if both those teams are undefeated going into the game. Should be a good measuring stick for both teams.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Kiel Center is going to be nuts if both those teams are undefeated going into the game. Should be a good measuring stick for both teams.

Can't wait! I flipped between the Mizzou game and the Blues game tonight.. should be a great game against Illinois!

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Mizzou has just been crazy to watch this year. If you ignore the score and just watched the game, you felt like Mizzou was a bit off tonight. In the end, they don't look very good and win by nearly 40?!?!?! Goodness me.

William and Mary coming to town on Sunday. If we can sneak by them, we're likely looking at a huge matchup of undefeated teams in the Braggin' Rights game a week from tonight.

Sneak by, lol.

We were 3rd from the bottom in RPI or Sagarin or something going into our DIII win last night.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Sneak by, lol.

We were 3rd from the bottom in RPI or Sagarin or something going into our DIII win last night.

I was being kind to my fellow FOFC'er.

Saw a quote from Gabe D. about the W&M game.

"If William goes for 40 points and Mary gets a double-double, Mizzou will still win by 30 points."

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Dola

Jabari Brown to decide between Georgia Tech and Mizzou before Christmas.......

Ex-Oregon player Jabari Brown to pick between Missouri, Georgia Tech

[digamma]

The Ga Tech rivals folks aren't entirely sure he has an offer from Tech. He was recruited by the old staff and they weren't aware that the new staff had had any contact.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I was being kind to my fellow FOFC'er.

Saw a quote from Gabe D. about the W&M game.

"If William goes for 40 points and Mary gets a double-double, Mizzou will still win by 30 points."

Never heard THAT one before.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Never heard THAT one before.

We're new to playing William & Mary. Still catching up on the standard one-liners.

[Kodos]

Time to kick some Fightin' Irish ass.

[cartman]

Texas looked pretty solid in a 77-65 win over a tough Temple team. Next game will be a good measuring stick, when they travel to play North Carolina. I hope they can keep it within 10.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Good lord. 25.4% shooting from Illinois at home against UNLV. Yuck. So much for that unbeaten matchup this Thursday.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Good lord. 25.4% shooting from Illinois at home against UNLV. Yuck. So much for that unbeaten matchup this Thursday.

Illinois is severely lacking in outside shooting. Paul is probably the only player on Illinois you would have to worry about at all when he goes hard to the rim. I am not sure where that game is being played but Id imagine Mizzou would win comfortably....75-65sh.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wade, I felt like William & Mary had a chance until the 8:00 mark in the first half where William and Mary still hadn't scored a point and they were down 19-0.

With that said, was really impressed with a couple of your players. The freshman (Thornton?) and the sophomore center were both very good. With some experience, you're going to have a nice one-two punch to build around for the next two years.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Wade, I felt like William & Mary had a chance until the 8:00 mark in the first half where William and Mary still hadn't scored a point and they were down 19-0.

With that said, was really impressed with a couple of your players. The freshman (Thornton?) and the sophomore center were both very good. With some experience, you're going to have a nice one-two punch to build around for the next two years.

Yeah, there are pieces there. Thornton is clearly the most talented player I've ever seen at W&M, so hopefully he pans out.

We still would have gotten beat by Mizzou, but the injuries have not helped. Next year should be a better year as we'll be healthy and have several key players that have played significant time at that stage. Even though we "returned 4 starters", 3 of them are sophomores - and one isn't even a starter anymore.

[wade moore]

Oh - as a side note. I watched on ESPN3. The announcers (Mizzou guys?) were, um.. not that great.

[MacroGuru]

Saturday was a great game between Baylor and BYU.... It was on BYUTV and the Baylor response to it was great..it was a game that should have been on an ESPN channel. A game we were supposed to be crushed in, was close 86-83 and we played Baylor tough.

Cool thing was coming out of a time out or something, the BYU student section held up a large banner congratulating Baylor and their Heisman winner...

Oh and Matt Carlino played in his first Div I game...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Oh - as a side note. I watched on ESPN3. The announcers (Mizzou guys?) were, um.. not that great.

Unfortunately, you got to see the second team. Usually, our color guy is Jon Sundvold. He's one of the best in the nation. He worked for ESPN for several years and they asked him to take a national role, but he turned it down because he had a business and wanted to spend time with his kids. It's a shame he's not doing the big games, but it's great for us Mizzou fans as we get to have him all to ourselves.

Scott Highmark is the second team guy. Former SLU player. He's OK, but I'd generally agree with your assessment.

[cartman]

Interesting stat on the remaining unbeaten teams:

Team		Non conference SOS rank (per Kenpom)
Murray State	106
Syracuse	188
Marquette	214
Indiana		235
Louisville	253
Baylor		329
Missouri	340

The remaining unbeaten that is getting the least amount of press is the one that has played the toughest schedule so far.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Unfortunately, you got to see the second team. Usually, our color guy is Jon Sundvold. He's one of the best in the nation. He worked for ESPN for several years and they asked him to take a national role, but he turned it down because he had a business and wanted to spend time with his kids. It's a shame he's not doing the big games, but it's great for us Mizzou fans as we get to have him all to ourselves.

Scott Highmark is the second team guy. Former SLU player. He's OK, but I'd generally agree with your assessment.

Yeah.. they weren't horrible by any means, but I thought we'd get better from Mizzou. It being the second team makes a lot more sense.

[Julio Riddols]

Not really sure how that strength of schedule is measured.. Not trying to argue really, but Murray States schedule up to this point seems pretty weak. The best team they have played is Memphis, and after that its a bunch of teams that suck except for San Fran, So. Miss, and Dayton. Hell, Memphis is only 5-4 right now, and I think we can eliminate San Fran, because they have played a bunch of shit teams, So really, they've beaten an underachieving Memphis team, Dayton, and Southern Miss. Indiana hasn't beat any outstanding looking teams besides Kentucky either, but I think it would be hard to argue that their schedule has been that much easier than Murray State. Meanwhile, Syracuse has played a schedule that is clearly much stronger than Murrays. I don't know how they ranked these schedules at Kenpom but I would argue that they need to rethink their formula.

[cartman]

Here's his explanation of how his SOS ranking works:

the kenpom.com blog

Strength of Schedule now has three columns. It’s potentially more confusing, but worth it in the end. The way I compute SOS is to average the opponents offensive and defensive ratings and to apply the pythagorean calculation to them to rank the overall schedules. So those are the three columns you see, Pyth (Overall SOS), AdjO (Opponents’ average adjusted offensive efficiency), and AdjD (Opponents’ average adjusted defensive efficiency). When comparing the offensive performance of players on different teams, there’s quite a bit of an advantage having their average opponents’ defense quantified. There’s also a column for non-conference SOS which attempts to capture the portion of the schedule under a school’s control. Thus, no postseason or conference games are included in that calculation.

[cartman]

I looked up a few other SOS rankings, and Murray State still ranks at or near the top of unbeaten's SOS in those as well.

Team		NCSOS (per Kenpom) 	Warren Nolan	Sagarin	Cheong	Colley
Murray State	106			69		80	68	83
Syracuse	188			15		194	63	50
Marquette	214			89		213	121	140
Indiana		235			197		294	161	252
Louisville	253			110		191	53	132
Baylor		329			243		322	243	268
Missouri	340			299		341	326	332

[gstelmack]

Todd O'Brien: St. Joe's won't give release to play at UAB - NCAA Basketball - SI.com

I would think that if you're going to object to a school objecting to releasing you from your scholarship, you wouldn't come out and say that you want to leave because of lack of playing time, then argue with the school saying that you want to leave for athletic instead of academic reasons.

[britrock88]

On the SOS topic, Syracuse has played more top teams. I think the difference that many of the computer rankings are noting is that Murray State has played fewer terrible (D-I) teams, with only Western Kentucky (#268) ranking in the bottom 130 of KenPom's rankings (out of 345 total teams). On the other hand, Syracuse has played #283 Fordham, #298 Colgate, and #308 Eastern Michigan. Teams get appreciably worse as the rankings continue toward the bottom, so the fact that most of Murray State's non-marquee wins are against teams ranked 150-200 or so helps them.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wow. Jabari Brown committed to the University of Missouri this morning. Enrolling in January. He'll be eligible for the Braggin' Rights game in 2012. Amazing list of transfers that Haith has secured for next year.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Dola wow

Pittsburgh Rivals writer is reporting that Khem Birch is looking at the University of Missouri as his primary transfer destination. Birch and Bowers would be a helluva front line next year.

[MizzouRah]

Thanks MMBF, great news indeed!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Good lord, KU. Really? Davidson? That school doesn't even start with a 'B'.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Good lord. 25.4% shooting from Illinois at home against UNLV. Yuck. So much for that unbeaten matchup this Thursday.

I've already ask for tape to be burned for one game this year (St Bonaventure) but the UNLV game was pretty ghastly as well. Tonight's matchup against Cornell didn't exactly inspire confidence for the Bragging Rights game either. That game could be messy.

[Logan]

So what's with all the Mizzou transfers?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Good lord, KU. Really? Davidson? That school doesn't even start with a 'B'.

I completely spaced on the game since we hadn't played in a week. I brought it up on Yahoo to see the score with about 30 seconds left and said "Aw, nuts" and then went to sleep.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I completely spaced on the game since we hadn't played in a week. I brought it up on Yahoo to see the score with about 30 seconds left and said "Aw, nuts" and then went to sleep.

SI

I'm going to let this photo from last night speak for itself.

[Logan]

NTTAWWT

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

So what's with all the Mizzou transfers?

Mizzou is obviously VERY top-heavy due to some recruiting mismanagement by the previous staff. They couldn't bring in 6-7 freshman next year and risk the same unbalance in a few years time. To even it out, you bring in some transfers. What's shocking is the quality of players that Haith is bringing in so quickly. Thus far:

Earnest Ross - Was Auburn's leading rebounder and scorer last year.

Keion Bell - Pepperdine's leading scorer and is 17th on the Pepperdine all-time scoring list.

Jabari Brown - Top 20 player in the class of 2011. Led Oregon in scoring on their summer tour before transferring after only two games.

If we manage to land Khem Birch as well, look out. We'd see a roster of.....

Phil Pressey
Michael Dixon
Keion Bell
Earnest Ross
Jabari Brown
Laurence Bowers
Kadeem Green
Khem Birch(?)

Along with 5 new freshman. We'd be playing a four-guard lineup just like this year with all those players getting a year to acclimate to the new system while practicing with the current senior class. That's something to be excited about. Two months ago, the cupboard looked pretty bare after this year. Thank God for hot starts when it's needed.

[Swaggs]

From what I am hearing, Birch is likely to land at Kentucky. he is reportedly a good kid, but has "handlers." I dunno if Haith wants to go near anyone that will raise suspicion right now. Calipari on the other hand...

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

From what I am hearing, Birch is likely to land at Kentucky. he is reportedly a good kid, but has "handlers." I dunno if Haith wants to go near anyone that will raise suspicion right now. Calipari on the other hand...

Yes, those handlers are supposedly why he ended up at Pitt when he really didn't want to go there.

As I've said many times on this board, basketball recruiting is 1,000 times dirtier than football recruiting. Pretty much every 5 star and lot of the 4 star types have these handlers now. Eventually, Yahoo or someone is going to catch on and have years worth of stories instead of focusing on football.

[cartman]

The other story out there is that Birch got homesick and that's why he headed back to Canada. Evidently that was a known condition going back to high school, where he left three different schools.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Yes, those handlers are supposedly why he ended up at Pitt when he really didn't want to go there.

Yes, I've heard this as well. It'll be interesting to see which way he sways. We dealt with something similar a week ago with Jabari Brown. He wanted to go to Mizzou but his handlers (who were the same people who pushed him to Oregon) wanted him to take a look at Kansas and two other schools. That's why the Mizzou staff was extremely excited to get his commit yesterday before any 'handler' visits took place.

The staff is hopeful that the Birch situation will go the same way. The fact that Mizzou already has three Canadian-born players on next year's roster doesn't hurt either.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by britrock88

On the SOS topic, Syracuse has played more top teams. I think the difference that many of the computer rankings are noting is that Murray State has played fewer terrible (D-I) teams, with only Western Kentucky (#268) ranking in the bottom 130 of KenPom's rankings (out of 345 total teams). On the other hand, Syracuse has played #283 Fordham, #298 Colgate, and #308 Eastern Michigan. Teams get appreciably worse as the rankings continue toward the bottom, so the fact that most of Murray State's non-marquee wins are against teams ranked 150-200 or so helps them.

I think a lot of SOS is also based on opponent RPI (or the formula they use for their own RPI) which takes into account home/road. Most of Murray State's wins came on the road or at neutral sites, including their two quality wins (Southern Miss and Memphis). Syracuse has only played 1 road game all year (2 neutral).

I mentioned it earlier, but Murray State can ball. Brother is an alum of another OVC school so we follow the conference a bit, and they have produced some good teams over the years. Have sent teams that have gotten out of the first round the last 2 years.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Upset alert:

Louisville has their hands full with College of Charleston. Game on ESPNU.

[cartman]

That game went worse than I was hoping. North Carolina got out to a fast start, and did a great job of keeping the Horns from executing their game. Was hoping they'd keep it closer than the final score of 82-63. That ends a 4 game win streak Texas had over the Tar Heels.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The Khem Birch transfer news heats up. The transfer is currently in the hands of Mike Alden. When/if Pitt releases him, he will enroll at Mizzou IF Alden believes there was no back-channel tampering involved. The catch right now is that Pitt has not yet released him. They're trying to convince him to stay, but it sounds like the Birch family has already made up their mind.

[yacovfb]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

They're trying to convince him to stay, but it sounds like the Birch family has already made up their mind.

They tried to initially, but they've been done trying to convince him for like a week now. Pitt has moved on and even burned Malcolm Gilbert's redshirt.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by yacovfb

They tried to initially, but they've been done trying to convince him for like a week now. Pitt has moved on and even burned Malcolm Gilbert's redshirt.

Have seen that mentioned on Twitter. I think the only other concern on Alden's part would be the tampering charges that were leveled by Pitt staff. We'll see how that pans out.

[yacovfb]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Have seen that mentioned on Twitter. I think the only other concern on Alden's part would be the tampering charges that were leveled by Pitt staff. We'll see how that pans out.

The talk on twitter that I saw posted on the Pitt boards is that Khem was having second thoughts. One of our insiders posted that he was unaware of the transfer rules and that was causing the second thoughts. Not sure I believe he's that stupid but then again, if he and his handlers thought he'd be a 1 and done then transferring is stupid in the first place. Our main bball guy thinks he'd have to pretty much beg to get back on the team at this point but that it's immaterial since Khem is gone.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by yacovfb

The talk on twitter that I saw posted on the Pitt boards is that Khem was having second thoughts. One of our insiders posted that he was unaware of the transfer rules and that was causing the second thoughts. Not sure I believe he's that stupid but then again, if he and his handlers thought he'd be a 1 and done then transferring is stupid in the first place. Our main bball guy thinks he'd have to pretty much beg to get back on the team at this point but that it's immaterial since Khem is gone.

The problem is the whole one and done rule to be honest. They need to adopt the baseball rule where you can go pro immediately or you have to play three years in college. These kids right now get fed all kinds of nonsense by their handlers about going and making millions after a year of school. Those are very rare instances. The kids and family often make rash decisions based on those overinflated expectations.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The problem is the whole one and done rule to be honest. They need to adopt the baseball rule where you can go pro immediately or you have to play three years in college. These kids right now get fed all kinds of nonsense by their handlers about going and making millions after a year of school. Those are very rare instances. The kids and family often make rash decisions based on those overinflated expectations.

That's a good point with the baseball rules. They actually almost make more sense for the NBA than for MLB (or, at least, as much). It would make sense if the NBA allowed players to opt for the draft as HS seniors, but let them go to college if they are unhappy with their options. Let them go to universities, but then they cannot be redrafted for three years. Or, go to Juco and you can be eligible again.

[Buccaneer]

Cuse shuts out a decent Tulane team for the last 7 minutes of the half, building a 41-19 lead. Go Orange.