Lebron or Anthony...

ScottVib · 04-07-2003, 08:50 AM

While I think Lebron (courtesy of the hype machine) will be the #1, I would contend that Anthony will be better sooner, and if somehow I had the #1 pick, I'd take Anthony over Lebron.

Why?

Lebron looks good, but he's a man among boys playing high school kids. If you watch his games there are an awful lot of 5'10" white guys out on the floor

not generally the caliber of competition you see in the NBA. His jump shot is still suspect. Most of these high school players haven't been effective until their third year (yes there have been exceptions) in the league... so essentially you pay a player like a star for a few years, and when he's ready to earn his money you only have a season or two before they are up for free agency. I do think that eventually Lebron will be a decent-to-good player, but I'm not sure that he's the best guy out there.

Anthony, on the other hand, is dominating against players 3 to 4 years his senior, on the second highest level of basketball in the country. His shot is much more refined and overall he seems more polished. I would expect him to be much more useful earlier, giving you a player earning his money for much more of his deal. He's a more proven commodity, and too me the better (safer) pick.

Who would you pick?

User #2735 · 04-07-2003, 08:59 AM

WIthout a doubt, I'd take Anthony. James may turn out to be the best basketball player ever (unlikely), but he's not going to do squat for a couple of years. Anthony looks good enough to convince me that he'll make an impact for whichever team drafts him, and that team will be way better off than the one with LeBron James.

BreizhManu · 04-07-2003, 09:02 AM

Darko Milicic

Marmel · 04-07-2003, 09:08 AM

I would take James, because Anthony will not be available to draft this year.

Seriously, it would be a PR nightmare not to select James #1 overall, regardless of who you thought was going to turn out better.

QuikSand · 04-07-2003, 09:09 AM

I'll be rooting for Marmel here. (hoping against hope)

ScottVib · 04-07-2003, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marmel
I would take James, because Anthony will not be available to draft this year.

You wish

Good luck to 'Cuse tonight.

I agree with you about the PR disaster part, which is why Lebron will still go #1; and why I would not make it as a NBA GM

Bee · 04-07-2003, 09:24 AM

One thing to remember about LeBron is that unlike many other high schoolers, he has played against pros. I remember when MJ had his summer workout LeBron played as a high school Junior against several journeymen pros and there were comments that he was one of the top 2-3 players on the court. No one is a sure thing, but I'd still go with LeBron at this point.

stkelly52 · 04-07-2003, 10:02 AM

Lebron is clearly the safe choice. If you pick anyone else and they bust, everyone will say what a fool you were. If LeBron busts, well everyone thought he was going to be the best, so you don't lose anything.

Logan · 04-07-2003, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ScottVib
While I think Lebron (courtesy of the hype machine) will be the #1, I would contend that Anthony will be better sooner, and if somehow I had the #1 pick, I'd take Anthony over Lebron.

Why?

Lebron looks good, but he's a man among boys playing high school kids. If you watch his games there are an awful lot of 5'10" white guys out on the floor not generally the caliber of competition you see in the NBA. His jump shot is still suspect. Most of these high school players haven't been effective until their third year (yes there have been exceptions) in the league... so essentially you pay a player like a star for a few years, and when he's ready to earn his money you only have a season or two before they are up for free agency. I do think that eventually Lebron will be a decent-to-good player, but I'm not sure that he's the best guy out there.

For the record, I'm not criticising your personal opinion here, but I see comments like yours by many people (including sportswriters). So, anyway...

Was Kwame Brown playing among men in high school? What about Tyson Chandler? Eddy Curry? Brown was the #1 overall pick straight out of high school, and Chandler and Curry could have been too. There wasn't criticism levied on them because they "only played high school ball."

LeBron dominated high school basketball for 3 years, meaning he also dominated players 2 years older than him (just remember back to your high school days...how big did some seniors look when you were a sophomore?) on some of the top teams in the country.

You mention how it takes time for these high school kids to come in and contribute big-time (with exceptions). Why is this? Mostly its because their bodies aren't ready for NBA abuse. Kobe, Garnett, O'Neal, McGrady, the guys mentioned above, etc... came in very skinny. Once they grew (or grow) into the bodies that are suited to their game, they (will) bec(a/o)me big-time players.

You mention exceptions--I'll give you Amare Stoudemire as this "exception." He has been a tremendous contributor for the Suns. In fact, if you could re-draft this year, some teams would pick him #1, with the rest preferring Yao and picking Amare #2.

What has made him so good? Luck? No, rather, IMO, its because he came out of high school with an NBA body, and that has allowed him to compete at a very high level and maintain the physical punishment. LeBron has an NBA body already, which is why I feel he will be an impact player very quickly.

Oh, and I echo the other statements that not drafting LeBron would be a PR disaster.

mckerney · 04-07-2003, 10:53 AM

Darko

LeBron may be a consideration, but there's no way I'd even think about taking Anthony over him.

RonnieDobbs · 04-07-2003, 11:11 AM

Hate to join the club, but Darko looks like he's extremely special.

mckerney · 04-07-2003, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ScottVib
Lebron looks good, but he's a man among boys playing high school kids. If you watch his games there are an awful lot of 5'10" white guys out on the floor not generally the caliber of competition you see in the NBA. His jump shot is still suspect.

LeBron's been playing against school boys, Carmello has been playing against college kids, Darko's been playing against pros. Not NBA level guys, granted, but it's probably better experience than the other guys have been up against.

Plus he's supposed to have a pretty decent shot too.

Bee · 04-07-2003, 11:20 AM

Darko would be my second choice, but I think it would be a mistake not to take the chance on LeBron.

vtbub · 04-07-2003, 11:37 AM

When LeBron puts on a show as good as Anthony did on that stage Saturday, then I'd take him.

Right now Anthony is the better player.

MizzouRah · 04-07-2003, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Anthony looks good enough to convince me that he'll make an impact for whichever team drafts him

I agree. Instant impact in the NBA, Lebron will take a few years.

Todd

Neuqua · 04-07-2003, 12:48 PM

If I needed to win next season, I'd take Anthony. He's a bit more advanced in his development and a future all star.

But, Lebron's special.

His body is big enough to play in the NBA right now. I think in his rookie year he'll be an average player off the bench but if he's not a budding all-star by even his second season I will be extremely surprised.

I love Carmelo Anthony, don't get me wrong. He's a stud and if he waited another year he'd be the early consensus for the #1 pick and worthy of it.

I just don't see how anybody could pass on Lebron at this point though.

Neuqua

albionmoonlight · 04-07-2003, 12:55 PM

It sounds like there might be some GM's out there who are secretly hoping to get the #2 or #3 pick so they can get Darko or Anthony. (Owners, I expect, would draft LeBron even if he couldn't play basketball just for the season tickets he will sell).

If the team with the #1 pick is able to trade it for a king's ransom to the team with the #2 or #3 pick, do you think they would be able to do that, or would the PR flack still be too great?

Daimyo · 04-07-2003, 12:56 PM

This is the season when its better to have the 2nd or 3rd pick.

MylesKnight · 04-07-2003, 01:00 PM

Carmelo Anthony!!

If I'm the Nuggets or the Cavs or the Clippers, etc., I want the sure thing.... although in the Cavs case there may be a mass revolt against the Franchise by Cleveland'ers if James wasn't picked.

If it is a team like Houston or someone that lucks out and gets the #1 Pick in the Lottery, I may say James is the choice. They've got more flexibility to pick the guy with the bigger Question Mark but very possibily better upside.

If it's my team though, I take Carmelo Anthony regardless.

Schmidty · 04-07-2003, 01:04 PM

The Pistons own the Grizzlies first round pick (unless it's #1 overall), and if they are lucky enough to get the second or third overall pick, I would be extremely happy to get either Anthony or Darko. Adding either of them to an already strong Pistons team would be extremely nice. I can't wait until the lottery.....

Marmel · 04-07-2003, 01:06 PM

I voted for James, even though I am a huge Melo fan.

James is extremely good and has an even bigger upside than Anthony. I have seen James a couple of times on TV.

We talk a lot about the hype, but there has never been hype for a High School Junior before (when the James hype began). I cannot even remember nearly this much hype for a High School Senior who was going straight to the pros. On top of all that, there is rarely this much hype for a College player going pro.

I really believe all this hype is there because James is that good. regardless of the PR issues, I would take him even over my favorite player, Carmelo.

MylesKnight · 04-07-2003, 01:06 PM

Schmidty, how did the Pistons get Memphis's 1st Round Pick anyway?

Does it have something to do with Otis Thorpe?

MylesKnight · 04-07-2003, 01:09 PM

Marmel, I agree James has got to be awfully good considering all the press that he has gotten, but I think that is also part of the issue as to why folks question why he may actually not go #1. I think people really do wonder about all of the ESPN-type Hype this kid is getting... Is this just a Media-Made #1 Pick (I know it's really not, the kid is good, but do you catch my drift here?)

User #2735 · 04-07-2003, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marmel
We talk a lot about the hype, but there has never been hype for a High School Junior before (when the James hype began)

Damon Bailey

Schmidty · 04-07-2003, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MylesKnight
Schmidty, how did the Pistons get Memphis's 1st Round Pick anyway?

Does it have something to do with Otis Thorpe?

Yup. The Pistons traded Otis to Vancouver back in '98 for a conditional 1st rounder. Last year, the condition was if the pick was in the top 5, the Grizz got to keep it. This year it's only protected if the Grizz get the top overall pick. If the pick isn't conveyed this year, the Pistons get it no matter what next year.

Considering the fact that Memphis has the 6th worst record in the NBA, the Pistons will likely get the pick this year.

Just for the record, the Pistons also own conditional 1st round picks from Denver and Sacramento.

vtbub · 04-07-2003, 02:18 PM

In LeBron's case, I guess it comes down to what attitude he shows to scouts now that it's crunch time. If he has read too many of his press clippings, then I would take somebody else.

Whoever gets him is going to have a crappy team. How well will any of these kids do from being the man on a good team to being the only man on a really rotten team. And how will that effect the player's ability to perform under the added stress of losing.

If LeBron plays like Kevin Garnett, he'd be pretty good.

mckerney · 04-07-2003, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vtbub
If LeBron plays like Kevin Garnett, he'd be pretty good.

I see there being 3 big differences between James' game and Garnetts.

1. Better Shot - Much has been made that this is the weakness of of James' game.
2. Height - James is in the 6'7" - 6'8" range. Garnett is around 7'1" (he's taller than the 6'11" he's listed at). This gives Garnett the versatillity to be able to play any position including the 4 and center. Also he's with shot blocking obviously.
3. More of a Team Player - From what I've heard James has been known to take a lot of shots and force some. Garnett's a team player who will usually pass to an open teammate than go to the basket if he has someone on him (though this has been one of the biggest criticisms of Garnett, not taking over toward the end of close games).

James will probably be good, though I doubt it will be in the same mold or style as KG.

Bee · 04-07-2003, 03:45 PM

James has a completely different type of game than Garnett. He's probably much more comparable to Magic Johnson.

I'd also say James is probably as much if not more of a team player than Garnett. From my understanding, in high school he'd pass the ball when he should have taken the shot. I think sometimes he'd get frustrated and take over games, but that was not his general style. He does need to work on his shot, but that's not uncommon for all players coming into the NBA (with the possible exception of some of the Europeans

).

rexalllsc · 04-07-2003, 03:57 PM

James is a very good player...and will be very good in the NBA...the only thing I'm worried about is that right now he's simply running by and jumping over people in HS...

mckerney · 04-07-2003, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bee
I'd also say James is probably as much if not more of a team player than Garnett. From my understanding, in high school he'd pass the ball when he should have taken the shot. I think sometimes he'd get frustrated and take over games, but that was not his general style. He does need to work on his shot, but that's not uncommon for all players coming into the NBA (with the possible exception of some of the Europeans ).

I haven't seen James play, but I have heard him refered to as a selfish player at times. It could very well be he's gotten the reputations because he's just taken over games being so much better than everyone else he's playing with, meaning this could very well change when he's playing in the NBA with guys at his level.

Anrhydeddu · 04-07-2003, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
I'll be rooting for Marmel here. (hoping against hope)

Same here.

GoldenEagle · 04-07-2003, 04:07 PM

I'd take Freddy Adu.

Anrhydeddu · 04-07-2003, 04:07 PM

Quote:

I haven't seen James play, but I have heard him refered to as a selfish player at times. It could very well be he's gotten the reputations because he's just taken over games being so much better than everyone else he's playing with, meaning this could very well change when he's playing in the NBA with guys at his level.

I would perceive just the opposite. With what very little my wife and I know, I told her about Anthony and her only comment was the NBA will certainly change him (for the worse). James, with his selfish play, should fit right in.

Craptacular · 04-07-2003, 04:12 PM

It depends on which team I run. If I'm the Clippers and I get the #1 pick, I would arrange a deal where I take LeBron, and the other 28 teams pay me $10 million each to thank me for ruining his career.

Bee · 04-07-2003, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mckerney
I haven't seen James play, but I have heard him refered to as a selfish player at times. It could very well be he's gotten the reputations because he's just taken over games being so much better than everyone else he's playing with, meaning this could very well change when he's playing in the NBA with guys at his level.

That's strange because the majority of the articles I've read indicates he's one of the most unselfish players at any level right now. He does have weaknesses (his shooting being the primary one), but I've just always read that he's very unselfish on the court.

User #2735 · 04-07-2003, 04:52 PM

"one of the most unselfish players on any level"??

Link please.

ice4277 · 04-07-2003, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Schmidty
The Pistons own the Grizzlies first round pick (unless it's #1 overall), and if they are lucky enough to get the second or third overall pick, I would be extremely happy to get either Anthony or Darko. Adding either of them to an already strong Pistons team would be extremely nice. I can't wait until the lottery.....

I would love to see the Pistons take either Darko or 'Melo, but I have pretty good sources inside the Palace who insist that Joe D. is going to be making a HUGE push for Tim Duncan this offseason, and that will involve this pick. So we'll see.

tucker342 · 04-07-2003, 06:24 PM

Think about a front line of Duncan and Wallace in the post for the Pistons. All I can say is damn they would be good...

tucker342 · 04-07-2003, 06:26 PM

dola-

I would pick Lebron, cause I think he's going to have a better career...

It's a tough choice though

Bee · 04-07-2003, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by User #2735
"one of the most unselfish players on any level"??

Link please.

I was paraphrasing...but here ya go:

nbadraft.net Listed as very unselfish

CNNSI said to be the most unselfish , unassuming basketball star on the court

hoops usa very unselfish player

AAU Reports So team oriented he can be too unselfish.

There's dozens of articles that popped up when I did a search on google with Lebron James and unselfish. That's also the general feeling I've gotten when reading many other articles.

Edit: BTW that's your free one time search by Bee...in the future you'll have to look them up yourself.

View Poll Results: Who would you take #1 in the draft?
Lebron James	23	38.98%
Carmelo Anthony	23	38.98%
Other...	13	22.03%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

04-07-2003, 09:08 AM	#4
Marmel Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Manchester, CT	I would take James, because Anthony will not be available to draft this year. Seriously, it would be a PR nightmare not to select James #1 overall, regardless of who you thought was going to turn out better. __________________ 81-78 Cincinnati basketball writer P. Daugherty, "Connor Barwin playing several minutes against Syracuse is like kids with slingshots taking down Caesar's legions." Last edited by Marmel : 04-07-2003 at 09:09 AM.

04-07-2003, 10:02 AM	#8
stkelly52 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Seattle WA	Lebron is clearly the safe choice. If you pick anyone else and they bust, everyone will say what a fool you were. If LeBron busts, well everyone thought he was going to be the best, so you don't lose anything. __________________ Check out an undrafted free agent's attempt to make the Hall of Fame: Running to the Hall Now nominated for a Golden Scribe!

04-07-2003, 10:53 AM	#10
mckerney Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Darko LeBron may be a consideration, but there's no way I'd even think about taking Anthony over him. Last edited by mckerney : 04-07-2003 at 10:57 AM.

04-07-2003, 11:11 AM	#11
RonnieDobbs High School JV Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Boston, MA	Hate to join the club, but Darko looks like he's extremely special. __________________ ----------------------------------------- Lookin' forward to great seasons from my 'Skins, Cubbies, and Red Sox (please humor me) Proud Manager of the BOSTON WYCKYD SCEPTRE Also attempting to Right The Ship with the Clippers

04-07-2003, 08:59 AM	#2
User #2735 n00b Join Date: Mar 2003	WIthout a doubt, I'd take Anthony. James may turn out to be the best basketball player ever (unlikely), but he's not going to do squat for a couple of years. Anthony looks good enough to convince me that he'll make an impact for whichever team drafts him, and that team will be way better off than the one with LeBron James.

04-07-2003, 09:02 AM	#3
BreizhManu College Benchwarmer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Paris, France	Darko Milicic

04-07-2003, 09:09 AM	#5
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	I'll be rooting for Marmel here. (hoping against hope)

04-07-2003, 09:24 AM	#7
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	One thing to remember about LeBron is that unlike many other high schoolers, he has played against pros. I remember when MJ had his summer workout LeBron played as a high school Junior against several journeymen pros and there were comments that he was one of the top 2-3 players on the court. No one is a sure thing, but I'd still go with LeBron at this point.

04-07-2003, 11:20 AM	#13
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	Darko would be my second choice, but I think it would be a mistake not to take the chance on LeBron.

04-07-2003, 11:37 AM	#14
vtbub College Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Burlington, VT USA	When LeBron puts on a show as good as Anthony did on that stage Saturday, then I'd take him. Right now Anthony is the better player. __________________

04-07-2003, 12:48 PM	#16
Neuqua Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago, Ill	If I needed to win next season, I'd take Anthony. He's a bit more advanced in his development and a future all star. But, Lebron's special. His body is big enough to play in the NBA right now. I think in his rookie year he'll be an average player off the bench but if he's not a budding all-star by even his second season I will be extremely surprised. I love Carmelo Anthony, don't get me wrong. He's a stud and if he waited another year he'd be the early consensus for the #1 pick and worthy of it. I just don't see how anybody could pass on Lebron at this point though. Neuqua __________________ Our Deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?

04-07-2003, 12:55 PM	#17
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	It sounds like there might be some GM's out there who are secretly hoping to get the #2 or #3 pick so they can get Darko or Anthony. (Owners, I expect, would draft LeBron even if he couldn't play basketball just for the season tickets he will sell). If the team with the #1 pick is able to trade it for a king's ransom to the team with the #2 or #3 pick, do you think they would be able to do that, or would the PR flack still be too great?

04-07-2003, 12:56 PM	#18
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	This is the season when its better to have the 2nd or 3rd pick.

04-07-2003, 01:00 PM	#19
MylesKnight College Benchwarmer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Neptune Beach, Florida	Carmelo Anthony!! If I'm the Nuggets or the Cavs or the Clippers, etc., I want the sure thing.... although in the Cavs case there may be a mass revolt against the Franchise by Cleveland'ers if James wasn't picked. If it is a team like Houston or someone that lucks out and gets the #1 Pick in the Lottery, I may say James is the choice. They've got more flexibility to pick the guy with the bigger Question Mark but very possibily better upside. If it's my team though, I take Carmelo Anthony regardless. __________________ IT'S ALL ABOUT THE BLACK & GOLD!! Last edited by MylesKnight : 04-07-2003 at 01:00 PM.

04-07-2003, 01:04 PM	#20
Schmidty Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Early, TX	The Pistons own the Grizzlies first round pick (unless it's #1 overall), and if they are lucky enough to get the second or third overall pick, I would be extremely happy to get either Anthony or Darko. Adding either of them to an already strong Pistons team would be extremely nice. I can't wait until the lottery..... __________________ Just beat the devil out of it!!! - Bob Ross

04-07-2003, 01:06 PM	#21
Marmel Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Manchester, CT	I voted for James, even though I am a huge Melo fan. James is extremely good and has an even bigger upside than Anthony. I have seen James a couple of times on TV. We talk a lot about the hype, but there has never been hype for a High School Junior before (when the James hype began). I cannot even remember nearly this much hype for a High School Senior who was going straight to the pros. On top of all that, there is rarely this much hype for a College player going pro. I really believe all this hype is there because James is that good. regardless of the PR issues, I would take him even over my favorite player, Carmelo. __________________ 81-78 Cincinnati basketball writer P. Daugherty, "Connor Barwin playing several minutes against Syracuse is like kids with slingshots taking down Caesar's legions." Last edited by Marmel : 04-07-2003 at 01:07 PM.

04-07-2003, 01:09 PM	#23
MylesKnight College Benchwarmer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Neptune Beach, Florida	Marmel, I agree James has got to be awfully good considering all the press that he has gotten, but I think that is also part of the issue as to why folks question why he may actually not go #1. I think people really do wonder about all of the ESPN-type Hype this kid is getting... Is this just a Media-Made #1 Pick (I know it's really not, the kid is good, but do you catch my drift here?) __________________ IT'S ALL ABOUT THE BLACK & GOLD!!

04-07-2003, 02:18 PM	#26
vtbub College Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Burlington, VT USA	In LeBron's case, I guess it comes down to what attitude he shows to scouts now that it's crunch time. If he has read too many of his press clippings, then I would take somebody else. Whoever gets him is going to have a crappy team. How well will any of these kids do from being the man on a good team to being the only man on a really rotten team. And how will that effect the player's ability to perform under the added stress of losing. If LeBron plays like Kevin Garnett, he'd be pretty good. __________________

04-07-2003, 03:45 PM	#28
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	James has a completely different type of game than Garnett. He's probably much more comparable to Magic Johnson. I'd also say James is probably as much if not more of a team player than Garnett. From my understanding, in high school he'd pass the ball when he should have taken the shot. I think sometimes he'd get frustrated and take over games, but that was not his general style. He does need to work on his shot, but that's not uncommon for all players coming into the NBA (with the possible exception of some of the Europeans ).

04-07-2003, 03:57 PM	#29
rexalllsc Banned Join Date: Feb 2003	James is a very good player...and will be very good in the NBA...the only thing I'm worried about is that right now he's simply running by and jumping over people in HS...

04-07-2003, 04:07 PM	#32
GoldenEagle Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Little Rock, AR	I'd take Freddy Adu. __________________ Xbox 360 Gamer Tag: GoldenEagle014

04-07-2003, 04:12 PM	#34
Craptacular College Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Mad City, WI	It depends on which team I run. If I'm the Clippers and I get the #1 pick, I would arrange a deal where I take LeBron, and the other 28 teams pay me $10 million each to thank me for ruining his career.

04-07-2003, 04:52 PM	#36
User #2735 n00b Join Date: Mar 2003	"one of the most unselfish players on any level"?? Link please.

04-07-2003, 06:24 PM	#38
tucker342 Pro Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Iowa City, IA	Think about a front line of Duncan and Wallace in the post for the Pistons. All I can say is damn they would be good...

04-07-2003, 06:26 PM	#39
tucker342 Pro Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Iowa City, IA	dola- I would pick Lebron, cause I think he's going to have a better career... It's a tough choice though Last edited by tucker342 : 04-07-2003 at 06:26 PM.

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