(POL) More horrible news from Iraq

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

There are a number of scenarios, but the worst would be that the price we have paid so far would be in vain.

Wouldn't paying a higher price with future lives lost and future billions wasted, all for nothing, be worse?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

Wouldn't paying a higher price with future lives lost and future billions wasted, all for nothing, be worse?

Yes.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by Dutch

...Middle East Reform will collapse before it even starts.

Ya think? The region is more destabilized now than when we went in.

The fact that anyone in the White House thought that attempting "Middle East Reform" led by the US was a good idea in the first place is pretty laughable.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

Ya think? The region is more destabilized now than when we went in.

Middle East Reform will take decades. The only place more destabilized is Iraq and Afghanistan. They haven't had this sort of freedom ever. Nobody said this was going to happen over-night. I'm not sure which information source is telling you that.[/quote]

The fact that anyone in the White House thought that attempting "Middle East Reform" led by the US was a good idea in the first place is pretty laughable.

If I were a betting man, I'd say the US has the best shot out of any nation to accomplish the task of leading this effort. Who were the runner's up you had in mind, so we are clear?

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

Wouldn't paying a higher price with future lives lost and future billions wasted, all for nothing, be worse?

Yes, it would, but I don't think that's the inevitable conclusion at this point.

So if we stay longer and fail, it will be worse than pulling out now. However, I believe we have to stay and do everything we can to makes sure that we stabilize the government and military of Iraq.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Middle East Reform will take decades. The only place more destabilized is Iraq and Afghanistan. They haven't had this sort of freedom ever. Nobody said this was going to happen over-night. I'm not sure which information source is telling you that.

Who says they need our freedom? If they wanted it, let them overthrow the government. Or are we going to travel all over the globe until we have indoctrinated everyone with "Christianity" and everything American?

If I were a betting man, I'd say the US has the best shot out of any nation to accomplish the task of leading this effort. Who were the runner's up you had in mind, so we are clear?

I don't think it's anyone's job, to be honest. I don't think it would matter who took the lead. The citizens of the countries can lead the charge if they crave it. I don't believe we can (or should!) simply export our morals and culture to other parts of the world. Not only does this Admin. seem to believe that we should - but that they'll be able to!

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

Who says they need our freedom? If they wanted it, let them overthrow the government. Or are we going to travel all over the globe until we have indoctrinated everyone with "Christianity" and everything American?



I don't think it's anyone's job, to be honest. I don't think it would matter who took the lead. The citizens of the countries can lead the charge if they crave it. I don't believe we can (or should!) simply export our morals and culture to other parts of the world. Not only does this Admin. seem to believe that we should - but that they'll be able to!

Just curious, how do you overthrow a government that has the weapons, manpower of the military, and chemical warfare. Citizens can't compete with that.

[-Mojo Jojo-]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Just curious, how do you overthrow a government that has the weapons, manpower of the military, and chemical warfare. Citizens can't compete with that.

The former Soviet Bloc made a pretty good go of it...

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Dutch

It was (if you listened to Powell and Rice on C-SPAN and the like), but I think it was too complicated to sell and was brushed aside for the easier ptich of "WMD, Terror, and Dictator" route, which were all valid concerns at the time, but the WMD's overshadowed everything in the end, especially when we found out we were punked/pwned/bitch slapped when the stockpiles the UN inventoried vanished.

I agree with you, almost exactly. Although, I disagree that it was too complicated. I think it was too unpopular to the public when Rice and Powell were testing it out on TV shows, so it was sold as furthering the war on terror and preventing the WMDs from getting into the wrong hands, because that is obviously more threatening and easier to build unity and support for.