Okay.. seriously.. what the ruck is a Ruck? RUGBY noob questions.

Thadaleus · 07-26-2005, 05:33 PM

I'm staying up late, and checking out some Rugby.. and I'm loving it.
Problem is.. like most Americans.. I'm lost on a sport if I didn't play it as a kid.

Actually, that's not entirely true.. I think I have most of the game down, but the one thing I still can't figure out, after watching many matches.. is the ruck.

International rules.. the ball-carrier goes down, tackled by the other team...
..his teammates rush in to form the "ruck".
He then pushes out the ball in the direction of his teammates and the start again.

What are the rules here?
When and how can the other team get the ball after the ball-carrier goes down?
When is it considered a ruck and when isn't it?
What penalties can come out of this and why?

And any other misconceptions Americans have about Rugby, answered would be awesome too.

JonInMiddleGA · 07-26-2005, 05:38 PM

Maybe this will help ... although I must confess that I was much clearer on rucks or mauls after reading it than I was before. But it looks like it's actually a pretty good detailed primer on the subject
http://www.scrum.com/rugby_guide/default.asp

SirFozzie · 07-26-2005, 05:43 PM

A ruck is formed when the ball carrier is tackled. He must release the ball (usually he'll twist as he's down to place the ball behind him, and then the pack forms around the ball, with both teams trying to push the other team off the ball.

The basics of it is.. you have to come in from YOUR side of the ball. Can't come in from the side (that's a penalty) or from behind (known as offsides, and also a penalty). Basically, a ruck is over when one team forces the other team off the ball enough they can grab it and toss the ball to a teammate, restarting the play. If neither team gets the ball out, there's a whistle, and the ball goes to the team that wasn't covering the ball (usually the defense). If the ball carrier does not release the ball promptly, that's also a penalty, and the defense would get the ball.

The offense usually has the advantage, for two reasons. 1) The ball carrier will place the ball to his side of the ruck as he goes down, giving them easier access to the ball.. and 2) defense is usually retreating (remember you can't play the ball/man if you're offsides..) and the offense is advancing.

AlexB · 07-26-2005, 05:48 PM

I used to play full back or wing, and to me a ruck meant I was badly out of position!

SirFozzie · 07-26-2005, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

I used to play full back or wing, and to me a ruck meant I was badly out of position!

Ah yes.. Full Back.. ie.. the shrimpy guy who sees the behemoth bearing down on him after breaking through and realizing you gotta at least slow him down to let your teammates catch up, or its a sheer try.

I'm surprised no fullbacks wig out and do a flying kick or something when a prop or someone comes through at a full gallop.

bhlloy · 07-26-2005, 06:03 PM

Excellent description by SirFozzie, the other big penalty that comes to mind is going in over the top (you can clear people out, but you can't dive over the top of the ruck to try and get the ball - to get the ball from the other side you must stay on your feet)

Incidentally, use of the feet is allowed as long as you are trying to get the ball and it's not blatently reckless (i.e. obviously going for the face) Anybody who has played rugby will tell you about the nasty stud marks you get all over your body.

digamma · 07-26-2005, 06:03 PM

We never played a shrimp at full back. Our fullback was typically a bad ass, who could kick. Shrimps played scrum half or on the wing.

SirFozzie · 07-26-2005, 06:10 PM

If you want to follow rugby games here in the US, here's two places to get it.

Fox Soccer Channel has rugby twice a week, but they split it between Rugby Union (the type of rugby described above, the more popular version) and Rugby League (a different version, I won't go into differences unless people want to), so you get 1 rugby match a week.

There's also Sentanta Sports, which has a metric buttload of rugby.. for example there is FOUR games on Sentanta this weekend, on a slow weekend (They're all BEST OF games from the last year)

21C · 07-26-2005, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

... which has a metric buttload of rugby..

What's the US equivalent?

SirFozzie · 07-26-2005, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21C

What's the US equivalent?

A shitpot.

Thadaleus · 07-26-2005, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

There's also Sentanta Sports, which has a metric buttload of rugby.. for example there is FOUR games on Sentanta this weekend, on a slow weekend (They're all BEST OF games from the last year)

Are you getting Sentanta down in Mass? Is that Comcast for you?
All I can find up here in NH is FSC.

So far I don't like Rugby League.. not physical enough.

Another question.

15 players in Rugby Union play.. from a brief strategy standpoint.. can someone describe all the positions?

SirFozzie · 07-26-2005, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thadaleus

Are you getting Sentanta down in Mass? Is that Comcast for you?
All I can find up here in NH is FSC.

So far I don't like Rugby League.. not physical enough.

Another question.

15 players in Rugby Union play.. from a brief strategy standpoint.. can someone describe all the positions?

DirecTV, but it's $12 a month

SirFozzie · 07-26-2005, 08:42 PM

here's a good article about the positions and what they do.

http://www.answers.com/topic/rugby-union-positions

SirFozzie · 07-27-2005, 12:22 PM

Wait for it, wait for it - the Pope's not dead
26 July 2005
By TANYA KATTERNS

It was every Catholic's worst nightmare – and a hardy Wairarapa footy player's: the Pope's death announced as the kicker prepared his run-up in the last minutes of a semifinal.

The ground announcer's quip in the Wairarapa-Bush club rugby semifinal might have helped cost Marist a place in the final.

Marist's Paddy Rimene was lining up a penalty kick in front of the posts – aiming to give Marist a victory over Gladstone. The score was 10-10.

Moments before his run-up, a voice over the loudspeaker declared the Pope had died in a car accident. As Rimene's kick bounced off the post, the loudspeaker announced the Pope was in fact fine and the accident was only a fender bender.

Gladstone won 13-10, with a penalty conversion in extra time.

Mr Rimene – who usually nails his kicks – admitted being "really annoyed" by the comments. However, the Wairarapa rugby veteran, who is not a Catholic, did not entirely blame the announcement for the missed kick. "I'd love to say, `Yeah, it was his fault,' but I should have got it anyway. I should have blocked it out. But then, it's not the sort of thing you expect to hear when you're lining up a kick."

The announcer approached him after the game to apologise but after a few beers, Mr Rimene thought it better not to give him a piece of his mind. "Next time I see him I'll be letting him know it's not nice."

Despite plenty of reaction, Marist has not made an official complaint.

Wairarapa-Bush Rugby Union chief executive Phil Taylor said it was slightly over the top. "The day was organised and orchestrated by the Gladstone club and they were masters of their day if you like."

Pumpy Tudors · 07-27-2005, 12:32 PM

Thanks to SirFozzie's description, I have a better idea of what goes on in a ruck, but I still have one question: Why doesn't the first person into the ruck just pick the ball up and toss it back to a teammate? Why allow this big pile of people to form? I'm clearly missing something fundamental here.

bhlloy · 07-27-2005, 02:03 PM

Partly to slow the game down, bring your backs into position (more of a set piece which you can work out of), and partly because it's not that damn easy when 18 stone guys are throwing themselves in to actually get the ball out of there. Much easier to have your big guys secure the ball, then get your scrum half or fly half to get the ball out of there while he has some sort of protection. If the first guy in there tried to play it he'd get killed by the other pack and there would almost certainly be a knock on.

AlexB · 07-27-2005, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digamma

We never played a shrimp at full back. Our fullback was typically a bad ass, who could kick. Shrimps played scrum half or on the wing.

I wouldn't, even at a stretch, call myself a badass, but I was a very defensive fullback - solid in the tackle and under the high ball, pretty good passer and decent clearing the ball from hand.

Unfortunately I, not lightning quick (in football I played up front and was quick over the first few yards, and being average paced over longer distances this often gave me enough head start to stay behind the defence) so I rarely managed to get the scything runs through that many fullbacks do, largely beacuse the rest of our backs were pretty quick and I usually couldn't keep up with them! So whether I liked it or not, I was a defensive full back...

Surtt · 07-27-2005, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Thanks to SirFozzie's description, I have a better idea of what goes on in a ruck, but I still have one question: Why doesn't the first person into the ruck just pick the ball up and toss it back to a teammate? Why allow this big pile of people to form? I'm clearly missing something fundamental here.

If only person is there, he can pick up the ball and go.

I ruck only forms when two people are trying to get the ball.
Then you basically have to push the other person away from the ball to pick it up.
In them mean time other players show up and start pushing too.
Once no one is directly over the ball it is out of the ruck, and you can pick it up.

07-26-2005, 05:38 PM	#2
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Maybe this will help ... although I must confess that I was much clearer on rucks or mauls after reading it than I was before. But it looks like it's actually a pretty good detailed primer on the subject http://www.scrum.com/rugby_guide/default.asp __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

07-26-2005, 05:43 PM	#3
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	A ruck is formed when the ball carrier is tackled. He must release the ball (usually he'll twist as he's down to place the ball behind him, and then the pack forms around the ball, with both teams trying to push the other team off the ball. The basics of it is.. you have to come in from YOUR side of the ball. Can't come in from the side (that's a penalty) or from behind (known as offsides, and also a penalty). Basically, a ruck is over when one team forces the other team off the ball enough they can grab it and toss the ball to a teammate, restarting the play. If neither team gets the ball out, there's a whistle, and the ball goes to the team that wasn't covering the ball (usually the defense). If the ball carrier does not release the ball promptly, that's also a penalty, and the defense would get the ball. The offense usually has the advantage, for two reasons. 1) The ball carrier will place the ball to his side of the ruck as he goes down, giving them easier access to the ball.. and 2) defense is usually retreating (remember you can't play the ball/man if you're offsides..) and the offense is advancing. __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

07-26-2005, 05:48 PM	#4
AlexB Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Newbury, England	I used to play full back or wing, and to me a ruck meant I was badly out of position! __________________ 'A song is a beautiful lie', Idlewild, Self Healer. When you're smiling, the whole world smiles with you. Sports!

07-26-2005, 06:10 PM	#8
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	If you want to follow rugby games here in the US, here's two places to get it. Fox Soccer Channel has rugby twice a week, but they split it between Rugby Union (the type of rugby described above, the more popular version) and Rugby League (a different version, I won't go into differences unless people want to), so you get 1 rugby match a week. There's also Sentanta Sports, which has a metric buttload of rugby.. for example there is FOUR games on Sentanta this weekend, on a slow weekend (They're all BEST OF games from the last year) __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

07-26-2005, 08:42 PM	#13
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	here's a good article about the positions and what they do. http://www.answers.com/topic/rugby-union-positions __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

07-26-2005, 06:03 PM	#6
bhlloy Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003	Excellent description by SirFozzie, the other big penalty that comes to mind is going in over the top (you can clear people out, but you can't dive over the top of the ruck to try and get the ball - to get the ball from the other side you must stay on your feet) Incidentally, use of the feet is allowed as long as you are trying to get the ball and it's not blatently reckless (i.e. obviously going for the face) Anybody who has played rugby will tell you about the nasty stud marks you get all over your body.

07-26-2005, 06:03 PM	#7
digamma Torchbearer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: On Lake Harriet	We never played a shrimp at full back. Our fullback was typically a bad ass, who could kick. Shrimps played scrum half or on the wing.

07-27-2005, 12:22 PM	#14
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	Wait for it, wait for it - the Pope's not dead 26 July 2005 By TANYA KATTERNS It was every Catholic's worst nightmare – and a hardy Wairarapa footy player's: the Pope's death announced as the kicker prepared his run-up in the last minutes of a semifinal. The ground announcer's quip in the Wairarapa-Bush club rugby semifinal might have helped cost Marist a place in the final. Marist's Paddy Rimene was lining up a penalty kick in front of the posts – aiming to give Marist a victory over Gladstone. The score was 10-10. Moments before his run-up, a voice over the loudspeaker declared the Pope had died in a car accident. As Rimene's kick bounced off the post, the loudspeaker announced the Pope was in fact fine and the accident was only a fender bender. Gladstone won 13-10, with a penalty conversion in extra time. Mr Rimene – who usually nails his kicks – admitted being "really annoyed" by the comments. However, the Wairarapa rugby veteran, who is not a Catholic, did not entirely blame the announcement for the missed kick. "I'd love to say, `Yeah, it was his fault,' but I should have got it anyway. I should have blocked it out. But then, it's not the sort of thing you expect to hear when you're lining up a kick." The announcer approached him after the game to apologise but after a few beers, Mr Rimene thought it better not to give him a piece of his mind. "Next time I see him I'll be letting him know it's not nice." Despite plenty of reaction, Marist has not made an official complaint. Wairarapa-Bush Rugby Union chief executive Phil Taylor said it was slightly over the top. "The day was organised and orchestrated by the Gladstone club and they were masters of their day if you like." __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

07-27-2005, 12:32 PM	#15
Pumpy Tudors Bounty Hunter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	Thanks to SirFozzie's description, I have a better idea of what goes on in a ruck, but I still have one question: Why doesn't the first person into the ruck just pick the ball up and toss it back to a teammate? Why allow this big pile of people to form? I'm clearly missing something fundamental here. __________________ No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor.

07-27-2005, 02:03 PM	#16
bhlloy Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003	Partly to slow the game down, bring your backs into position (more of a set piece which you can work out of), and partly because it's not that damn easy when 18 stone guys are throwing themselves in to actually get the ball out of there. Much easier to have your big guys secure the ball, then get your scrum half or fly half to get the ball out of there while he has some sort of protection. If the first guy in there tried to play it he'd get killed by the other pack and there would almost certainly be a knock on. Last edited by bhlloy : 07-27-2005 at 02:05 PM.

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