Be Careful What You Post on the Net

[Ksyrup]

They're watching...



Former Boston Herald columnist fired from teaching job

Tuesday, July 19, 2005; Posted: 2:10 p.m. EDT (18:10 GMT)

BOSTON, Massachusetts (AP) -- A former Boston Herald columnist was fired from a part-time job teaching journalism at Boston University after posting a note on an Internet site that a female student was "incredibly hot."

Michael Gee, a 17-year veteran of the Herald, was hired by Boston University to teach an introductory journalism course. He had been among dozens of staffers who left the newspaper this spring amid job cuts.

On July 5, Gee wrote on the sportsjournalists.com Web site about his first day teaching and mentioned the student, according to a Web log run by sports media critic David Scott on www.bostonsportsmedia.com.

"Of my six students, one (the smartest, wouldn't you know it?) is incredibly hot. ... It was all I could do to remember the other five students."

Gee was fired July 13, according to Bob Zelnick, chairman of BU's journalism department. Zelnick said the posting violated the trust essential to the student-teacher relationship.

Students "have to be confident their work will judged impartially" and not on the basis of their looks, he said.

Zelnick said one of the university's public relations officials learned about the remarks after a call from a blogger. A spokesman for the university would not say specifically how the school learned about the postings. Scott wrote that he called officials for comment on Gee's remarks on July 12.

Gee declined to comment when reached at home on Tuesday by The Associated Press. In a posting after he was fired, Gee called his remarks "pathetic, juvenile, and boorish," according to Scott's log. He said he was "deeply ashamed" of them and would make no further public comment.

The postings have since been removed from the sportsjournalists.com site.

Gee was hired for one course, with no guarantee of more, though the department would have been open to hiring him if he had done well, Zelnick said. The opening had come at the last minute, he said, and Gee "was an experienced, highly regarded journalist who came well recommended by people whose views I respect."

[rkmsuf]

dude

[cartman]

pix pls, thx

[Ksyrup]

He didn't get the chance. You'd think they would have waited to turn him in until they got some pics, though.

[Travis]

So uh, can this course still be signed up for or what?

[sachmo71]

"Kyle, tell us about Hornsmaniac."

[dawgfan]

Well, he was guilty of poor judgement. He should've been aware that if such a comment was attributed to him publicly that there would be a possibility of an uproar.

On the other hand, it's rough to think that a comment like that carries such a risk with it. We live in a society where in certain areas, we're not supposed to judge people by their looks, while in other areas it's the only thing that's important. It's a nearly impossible task to expect people to be able to turn that thinking off just like that - it's completely understandable that people will notice others that are very attractive and be inclined to share that experience. That said, just because he made note of the fact this student was hot doesn't automatically mean he'd be unable to judge all his student's work impartially (within reason at least - I doubt there's any teacher out there who couldn't be faulted in some way for some sort of grading bias).

And by firing him, that action is essentially saying "We can't trust this person to not treat all his students fairly simply because he noted publicly how attractive he finds one of them." That's a strict litmus test.

[mrsimperless]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Well, he was guilty of poor judgement. He should've been aware that if such a comment was attributed to him publicly that there would be a possibility of an uproar.

On the other hand, it's rough to think that a comment like that carries such a risk with it. We live in a society where in certain areas, we're not supposed to judge people by their looks, while in other areas it's the only thing that's important. It's a nearly impossible task to expect people to be able to turn that thinking off just like that - it's completely understandable that people will notice others that are very attractive and be inclined to share that experience. That said, just because he made note of the fact this student was hot doesn't automatically mean he'd be unable to judge all his student's work impartially (within reason at least - I doubt there's any teacher out there who couldn't be faulted in some way for some sort of grading bias).

And by firing him, that action is essentially saying "We can't trust this person to not treat all his students fairly simply because he noted publicly how attractive he finds one of them." That's a strict litmus test.

My guess is that THIS comment is the one that did him in...

It was all I could do to remember the other five students.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

"Kyle, tell us about Hornsmaniac."

Nice reference. A defining moment here, for sure.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by mrsimperless

My guess is that THIS comment is the one that did him in...

Could be, but in all likelihood it was a bit of hyperbole used to emphasize how hot the one student was. It's still no proof that he was now intent on banging her or that he was going to give her preferential treatment at the expense of the other students.

Regardless, it's a good lesson for teachers and prospective teachers to learn,

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Well, he was guilty of poor judgement. He should've been aware that if such a comment was attributed to him publicly that there would be a possibility of an uproar.

I think the lesson to be learned isn't be careful what you post on the net, but rather be careful about what you say about students if you're a teacher.

I don't think you can stop yourself necessarily from being attracted to someone, but stating it publicly is very different. If you learned that the teacher of your daughter had publicly stated she was hot and he couldn't concentrate on his other students, would you want him teacher her anymore?

Then again, anyone who thinks that anything on the Internet is "private" conversation is just asking to get disappointed.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

I think the lesson to be learned isn't be careful what you post on the net, but rather be careful about what you say about students if you're a teacher.

I agree - you have to be careful what you say in person too. But something posted on the internet is even more potentially damaging for obvious reasons.

Originally Posted by kcchief19

I don't think you can stop yourself necessarily from being attracted to someone, but stating it publicly is very different. If you learned that the teacher of your daughter had publicly stated she was hot and he couldn't concentrate on his other students, would you want him teacher her anymore?

First, let's not go overboard on interpreting the guy's statement. Secondly, yeah I'd be concerned about that teacher (though more from a perspective of "Is he going to hit on her" than "Is he going to unfairly grade her"), but before calling for his firing I'd want to talk with him directly and get a better sense for what he meant, what his character is like and get some background on his history as a teacher.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

First, let's not go overboard on interpreting the guy's statement. Secondly, yeah I'd be concerned about that teacher (though more from a perspective of "Is he going to hit on her" than "Is he going to unfairly grade her"), but before calling for his firing I'd want to talk with him directly and get a better sense for what he meant, what his character is like and get some background on his history as a teacher.

You're a more forgiving soul than I. I want him fired, period.

[Pacersfan46]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

You're a more forgiving soul than I. I want him fired, period.

Ditto.

Like he'd give you an honest answer if he did want to bang your daughter .....

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Pacersfan46

Ditto.

Like he'd give you an honest answer if he did want to bang your daughter .....

So bascially he'd be fired simply because he had the poor judgement to express publicly that she's hot. Because let's be realistic here, pretty much any (straight) male teacher is going to notice the hot female students in his class.

I can be persuaded that the fact his judgement is poor enough to say it publicly means there's a greater risk that he'd act on that observation, but I'm not sure I'd view it as automatic grounds for firing.

Question for you all - if he'd made this comment in private to a buddy of his, would that change your reaction to this situation at all?

[molson]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

So bascially he'd be fired simply because he had the poor judgement to express publicly that she's hot. Because let's be realistic here, pretty much any (straight) male teacher is going to notice the hot female students in his class.

I can be persuaded that the fact his judgement is poor enough to say it publicly means there's a greater risk that he'd act on that observation, but I'm not sure I'd view it as automatic grounds for firing.

Question for you all - if he'd made this comment in private to a buddy of his, would that change your reaction to this situation at all?

Another thing to keep in mind here is this guy was only hired to teach this one course, with no guarantee or even likelihood of future employment with BU. He was basically a last-minute replacement (and was only available, and probably willing to do the job because he had just been let go by the Boston Herald). If this is a full-time professor, the outcome would probably be different, but this guy just wasn't worth BU's trouble.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

So bascially he'd be fired simply because he had the poor judgement to express publicly that she's hot. Because let's be realistic here, pretty much any (straight) male teacher is going to notice the hot female students in his class.

I can be persuaded that the fact his judgement is poor enough to say it publicly means there's a greater risk that he'd act on that observation, but I'm not sure I'd view it as automatic grounds for firing.

Question for you all - if he'd made this comment in private to a buddy of his, would that change your reaction to this situation at all?

In every job, you have lines that cannot ever be crossed. It may seem trivial to someone who works in another profession, but it's very severe to the profession you are in.

As a teacher/prof, he should be old enough to know what the line is and how damaging it can be to cross it. Making a public statement about the attractiveness of a student opens the door for all sorst of headaches for the university.

If she gets an A, did she deserve it? If another student gets a D, was it because she "wasn't" hot?

This is more than a minor mistake, it's something that underlies his crediblity and a teacher and the universities reputation. Were I in charge, this would be one of the quickest, easiest decisions I'd ever make.

Buh Bye.

[dawgfan]

Yeah, I follow your reasoning Troy. But what about my hypothetical - how would you view the same teacher if the comment hadn't been made on an internet forum but instead was something he said in conversation with a buddy. Is that crossing the line? Should teachers always keep to themselves if they find a student attractive and never reveal that info in any way to anyone else?

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Yeah, I follow your reasoning Troy. But what about my hypothetical - how would you view the same teacher if the comment hadn't been made on an internet forum but instead was something he said in conversation with a buddy. Is that crossing the line? Should teachers always keep to themselves if they find a student attractive and never reveal that info in any way to anyone else?

Knowing the severity of the situation, you'd better make sure anything you say would NEVER get back to the students or the higher ups at the university.

Personally, I'm a teacher/prof, I keep it to myself. Given the knowledge this can/will cost me my job and ruin my credibibility, I don't see why it's something I'd ever bring up.

But there is no strange schematic thing going onhere. This isn't a situation where a friend of a friend said he heard this rumor . . this is a prof writing the information down in full view of the world. He deserved to get fired for stupidity alone.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

But there is no strange schematic thing going onhere. This isn't a situation where a friend of a friend said he heard this rumor . . this is a prof writing the information down in full view of the world. He deserved to get fired for stupidity alone.

Sure, I get that part.

My point was this - most (if not all) teachers will notice students that they find very attractive. The question is, should you ever relay that information to someone else in any form when such a situation happens. For example, you're out with a buddy drinking and he asks about your new class - do you tell him about the hot blond in the 3rd row? Or is this such a taboo that you shouldn't ever comment on it?

Expanding on this point, in the larger view - why is this such a taboo?

A few reasons are obvious - there's the sexual angle of course. We're so paranoid about student/teacher sexual interaction that any such comment about student attractiveness by a teacher will be viewed through the Mary K. LeTourneau filter (and please don't misconstrue my meaning - I'm not advocating student/teacher relationships when the students aren't adults, i.e. college level or higher, and even then it's highly problematic and should in the majority of cases be avoided).

Another angle that's brought up is the idea of favorable treatment. This one is more interesting to me and less clear-cut. Human psychology being what it is, the idea that people should judge other people solely by their actions and not by their appearence is quite different from the reality of whether people can judge other people solely by their actions and not by their appearence.

If you say that someone that makes such a comment about a student publicly should be fired bacause it crosses a line, I can accept it from the perspective of worrying about sexual predation. But in the area of favorable treatment, I have a much harder time justifying termination. But maybe that's just me...

[TroyF]

dawg,

The perception is what kills you. It doesn't matter if it's just an innocent comment to a friend. It doesn't matter that you have high moral standards and would NEVER let that impact you.

The perception destroys you. It's why if you are an NFL player, it may not be such a good idea to be close friends with a knows sports gambler. Why you don't tell your boss his daughter is hot and why you don't go to your local airport and make audible jokes about bombs.

This is a case where you don't have to judge the morality of the person making the comment or even trying to dig deep to find out what the intention for saying something like that is. All of that is irrelevant. You say something like that when you are in his profession, it's professional suicide.

So to answer your question again, I'd be VERY careful with who I shared that information to and because of the sensitiviy about the situation, I likely wouldn't even comment to my close friends about it. What do you gain by making it? Five minutes of small talk? What do you have to lose? Your job?

I think I keep my mouth shut.

[dawgfan]

Very good points Troy. I can't say I disagree.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

That's why when I want to say something outrageous, I post under a different name -- Bubba Wheels. Maybe you've seen some of my posts around here.