Baltimore Orioles: Hall of Fame Discussion (1/2)

[Easy Mac]

I'll give a poll of the 3 players I think are most likely to make the Hall of Fame. Of course, some (most) teams won't come close to the criteria for the hall, so most of the time it will be the 3 best career on the team. It should be an interesting discussion for some teams, pretty boring for others (See AZ). Also, as an added bonus, I may occasionally do more than 1 set of 3 players for a team. Very rare, there may be a couple of teams who have more than 3 guys who could be hall-worthy. In that case, I'll think of something. So here we go. The poll choices will hopefully be obvious, but who knows.

Sammy Sosa: So I watched the Braves and O's tonight, and Sammy looks like he got sawed in half since last year... I don't want to mutter the S word, but he's like the Dominican Jason Giambi. In spite of the steroid issue, I'd say he's a lock for the Hall of Fame. He has 583 home runs right now, and logic would dictate he'll get 600 by years end (or there about). The most similar player at his age is Mickey Mantle, and his 3 years of 60+ home runs get him in. I always hated, and personally I wouldn't feel bad if he didn't get in the hall, but I'll vote Yes to the Hall.... Cubs suck.

Rafael Palmeiro: Not only did Rafy possible ingest some body altering drugs, he's Viagra boy... thats 2 strikes. He also went to Mississippi State, which is a huge 3rd strike looking in my book... However, like Sosa, you can't discount the 561 HR he has for his career. Add in a higher career average than Sosa, and its hard to argue he's not also a lock for the hall. He'll probably finish the year with around 575 HR, which means he'll try and hang around another year or 2 to get to 600, which is the new 450.

The big strikes against him in my book is that he was never really considered the best at his position at any point in his career... thats really something that I define as a huge black mark on his candidacy... The hall is the best of the best, and I don't know that he qualifies on that mark. He's made 4 All-star teams. Perhaps he was always just an underrated player. His most player is Eddie Murray... schockingly I'd have to say He'll get in the Hall, if not at first, after a couple of tries.

Miguel Tejada: In case you haven't heard, Miguel Tejada is a 29 year old shortstop. He has some thing called an MVP award, one of only 3 SS in the past 15 years to win it (the other 2 are Hall locks). In the equivalent of about 8 full seasons, he has 209 HR. He'll probably get to about 400-450 HR if he can stay healthy. He's now a part of an up and coming old team. He's overshadowed by Jeter and Arod(more or less a SS), but easily as good a player as at least half of that tandem. It may still be too soon to actually discuss Miggy. I don't really know how his stats will be viewed because of the era he played, but I think really entering his prime (and the time when the hall starts to notice players), helps, instead of it happening 2-3 years ago. I'm not ready to commit to him being in the Hall right now, but another 2-3 Tejada seasons and I'd say he's in.

Next thread will have Javy Lopez only as an option, along with the too soon to tells.

[Maple Leafs]

I voted for all three, but Palmeiro is going to be very interesting, especially with the all-but-obvious steroid connection.

P.S. I look forward to Mr Bug dropping into this thread and not voting for Sosa.

[Chief Rum]

What's the running logic on the order you're doing the teams? I mean you seem to be going roughly alphabetical, but you have missed a team or two, so I am wondering. Unless I just missed those teams.

[Easy Mac]

Going alphabetical by location (based on what baseball-reference is telling me).

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Going alphabetical by location (based on what baseball-reference is telling me).

lol...naw, I figured it out. I, of course, was looking for the Angels, but I still think of them as Anaheim Angels. So I thought you had missed them. I forgot about the ole LA Angels switch (hard to believe ).

[Easy Mac]

Don't worry, its not like we have much to discuss there anyway... its not like Dick Schofield is playing anymore (that man was a beast in RBI baseball)

[Chief Rum]

heh heh Dick Schofield! There's a trip down memory lane.

I think there are some players of interest to discuss there. But that's for then. This is for the O's.

I picked all three to go in, which is the first time I did that. Corked bat incident and Creatine or no, Sosa is a cinch. Palmeiro is one of the more underrated power hitters of the last 15 years (and was a damn good fielder at 1B before getting old). And Tejada is better than both of them--although he probably won't end up with the same numbers.

[Radii]

First time I've said all 3, the first two could retire today and get in IMO, and Tejada appears to be well on his way but has a lot more work to do obviously.

[Neuqua]

Bug wouldn't dare do that to me twice.

All three get in.

[kingfc22]

I'd say Sosa and Palmiero even though he was never truly dominate, but will get in for longevity.

Tejada is en route but not quite there yet.

[clintl]

Sosa and Palmeiro are locks. Tejada probably needs to keep up what he's doing for a few more years, but right now, I don't see any reason he won't be able to do so.

[ISiddiqui]

All 3. Sosa and Palmeiro, if they quit tomorrow, they are in. Tejada, with a few more years, will be a lock. He's a Hell of a SS.

[st.cronin]

I think Palmeiro may have a tough time getting in. He was never close to an MVP candidate, he's never been on a world champ, he's bounced around, never dominated the league at all, steroid accusations, etc. He'll be like Bert Blyleven; people will have a ton of reasons not to pick him, despite decent qualifications.

Sosa I think is obviously in. Tejada I can't imagine not making it; it would take a Garciaparran meltdown to keep him out.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think Palmeiro may have a tough time getting in.

How many guys do you know with over 550 homeruns and 3000 hits who didn't make the Hall? He's a lock. You can't blame him if he's a quiet guy and doesn't call attention to himself.

[clintl]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

How many guys do you know with over 550 homeruns and 3000 hits who didn't make the Hall? He's a lock. You can't blame him if he's a quiet guy and doesn't call attention to himself.

There aren't even any eligible players who achieved at least one of those two categories who aren't in the Hall.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

How many guys do you know with over 550 homeruns and 3000 hits who didn't make the Hall? He's a lock. You can't blame him if he's a quiet guy and doesn't call attention to himself.

As others have mentioned, he has three big problems:

- steroid use (never proven, but overwhleming circumstantial evidence)
- played in the greatest offensive era of all-time, making his numbers less impressive
- was never considered the best at his position, only made a few all-star teams, never was really the best at anything (his black/grey ink split is one of the strangest of all time)

In the end I bet he gets in, but it should be an interesting debate. I bet most baseball writers already have a few columns in the bag and ready to go for this one.

[CraigSca]

The same can be said for Sosa (regarding the steroid use). My feeling is that Sosa may be the Pete Rose of his generation. I think that most writers will probably hold out a good long time, to prove a point, and then finally let it go. I think that Palmeiro is probably a guy who stays under the steroid radar - probably because his numbers weren't as garish (Bonds, Sosa) and his drop-off hasn't been as immense (Giambi).

We live in a forgive almost anything type of world - hell, a great many people were on Rose's side until he finally admitted he lied. I can see 20-25 years down the road this steroids thing being seen as a detriment to baseball, but I don't see the writers putting a face on it beyond McGwire, Sosa and Giambi.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

The same can be said for Sosa (regarding the steroid use). My feeling is that Sosa may be the Pete Rose of his generation. I think that most writers will probably hold out a good long time, to prove a point, and then finally let it go. I think that Palmeiro is probably a guy who stays under the steroid radar - probably because his numbers weren't as garish (Bonds, Sosa) and his drop-off hasn't been as immense (Giambi).

See, I'd take the opposite view. I think Sosa has an easier time because he had those garish numbers for a few years -- steroids or not, he was clearly one of the biggest stars in baseball (and all of sports) for several years, which you could never say about Palmeiro. That's not to say that some writers won't decide to make an example of him, but I bet he gets more support than Palmeiro does.

[st.cronin]

If Sosa is kept out it will be only because of steroids. If Palmeiro gets in it will be only because of his milestones. Sosa's got one argument to be left out; Palmeiro's only got one argument to get IN.

[clintl]

Milestones matter when you reach two of the classic, traditionally automatic Hall-worthy milestones (500 HRs and 3,000 hits), and only three other players in the history of the game have done both. Plus, I think you are seriously underrating Palmeiro.

[Swaggs]

I picked all three.

I disagree with folks that are discounting Sosa. I think all he needs is another great run (not even for a full season), or even better, a postseason trip and the sportswriters will fall back in love with him. He's a lock.

I think Palmiero is also a lock. He's similar to Eddie Murray. Never the best in the league, but the duration + marquee milestone numbers gets him in easily.

Tejada, barring a major injury or damage to his image (b/c I don't think he'll hit all the "magic" numbers), will likely get in, as well. Unlike Sosa and Palmiero, he isn't a lock yet, though.