06-21-2005, 09:55 PM | #51 | ||
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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joe Carter wasn't even the best player on his team. Take away one big homerun and Joe Carter is a nobody.
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06-21-2005, 09:59 PM | #52 |
High School JV
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Jersey
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except for his 396 hrs and 1400+ rbi's
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06-21-2005, 10:00 PM | #53 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Keene, NH
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Quote:
not a Carter hater, but he also only cracked .275 once in his career.
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06-21-2005, 10:04 PM | #54 |
High School JV
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Jersey
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I know Carter had his average problems which is why he is not a HOF'er, but averaging 27hrs and 107 rbi's for his career is worthy of being in the class of being underrated. If anyone has the list of players not in the HOF who averaged 100 rbi's for a career of more than 10 years, I'd love to see it.
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06-21-2005, 10:08 PM | #55 |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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Cecil Fielder is pretty close
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06-21-2005, 10:09 PM | #56 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Keene, NH
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Quote:
well, I already gave you one... (I get your point though)
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06-21-2005, 10:09 PM | #57 |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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Funny, he is also another over rated blue jay
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06-21-2005, 10:10 PM | #58 | |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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Quote:
Pete Rose |
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06-21-2005, 10:15 PM | #59 |
High School JV
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Jersey
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Pete Rose? Did you actually look at his stats? He had 150 rbi's less than carter and played 10 more years. I guess your knowledge of stats is like your poker game...weak.
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06-21-2005, 10:18 PM | #60 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Keene, NH
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Quote:
also Andres Galarraga (another good underrated choice) and Palmeiro (might get in to the Hall though) both averaged over 100. so did Canseco (waaay overrated), Juan Gonzalez (underrated), McGwire (Hall status up in the air, mostly overrated), as well as the previously mentioned Jim Rice. Dave Parker, Harold Baines (guh), Andre Dawson, Ted Simmons and Chili Davis all averaged 90+
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06-21-2005, 10:22 PM | #61 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Keene, NH
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Quote:
Rose is, however, a very underrated gambler.
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06-21-2005, 10:28 PM | #62 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Bert Blyleven easily qualifies.
Another who should be in the hall but isn't is Jim Marshall |
06-21-2005, 10:28 PM | #63 |
High School JV
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Jersey
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I love the Jim Rice comparison to Joe Carter. Perfect match. Identical 16 year careers except for Rice's superior avg.
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06-21-2005, 10:40 PM | #64 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
Code:
That OPS+ tells the whole story. That relates the player's OPS to the league-wide average. It's park-adjusted and, by defenition- league and era-adjusted. That 104 is barely above average. That includes catchers' and middle infielders' OPSs. The RBI are a product of always batting 3-5 on teams that usually had good table setters. His OBP was not good. Which means that he used up a lot of outs to get those RBIs. His .464 SLG was good, but certainly not elite. He was never considered a great or even very good fielder, either. |
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06-21-2005, 10:53 PM | #65 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New Mexico
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Everybody either wants to rip on Carter for his obp or else they want him in the Hall of Fame. He was a good player, a few notches below Dale Murphy. He was a good defensive outfielder (played quite a bit of center when he was young), a good baserunner (was an early pioneer in the 30-30 club), extremely durable (an underrated skill), and a decent hitter. He's both under- and over- rated.
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06-22-2005, 09:00 AM | #66 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dayton, OH
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For NHL I gotta agree with Tiki...
NFL I need to change my vote to Dave Kreig, he was a stud. Just don't ask him to not fumble. MLB - He may still be playing, but I don't think Jim Edmonds is going to make the Hall and that is a shame! |
06-22-2005, 10:16 AM | #67 |
Retired
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fantasyland
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Ricky Jackson and Brian Sipe are good calls. It's hard to believe that Sipe only made the Pro Bowl once. Jackson was a 6 time Pro Bowler. He may have a chance at the HoF.
Dave Krieg? Well, he made the Pro Bowl 3 times in his career, so he didn't suck. His career standing are awesome: Pass attempts: 10th, Completions: 10, Passing yards: 11 and Passing TDs: 9. However, I never thought of him as a winner - probably because his postseason starting record was 2-6. I would have rather had Jim Zorn, who played on some truly dreadful Seattle teams. As for Joe Carter - who played in a higher-scoring era for much of his career than Jim Rice - I'd also say he was overrated. They make for a great comparison. Neither could be considered a great fielder and they played the same positions (OF, 1B, DH). Joe's big years were from 1985-1995. Rice's big years were 1975-1985. Jim Rice: .298 BA, 382 HRs, .502 Slugging, .352 OBP, 1451 RBIs, 1249 Runs. Joe Carter: .259 BA, 296 HRs, .464 Slugging, .306 OBP, 1445 RBIs, 1170 Runs. Carter did have more SBs than Rice (175 more or so). Rice is clearly superior in raw numbers. The discrepancy is even more pronounced when compared to their contempories. Carter finished in the top 10 in slugging only 3 times. Rice did it 8 times. RBIs are Carter's biggest claim to fame, but both he and Rice finished in the top 10 nine times. Homers? 7 Each, but Rice finished #1 three times. Carter finished in the top 3 only once. Verdict: Carter isn't underrated. |
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