Glazer and ManYoo - Page 3

ISiddiqui · 05-31-2005, 11:50 PM

Just saw the 'Outside the Lines' story! One of the favorite chants at the FA Cup by supporters?

"Malcolm Glazer... is gonna DIE, is gonna DIE!"

::scared:: Wow... not all that surprising, but wow anyway.

And then the Glazer's tried to avoid questions about it from the press is going to kill them in the British tabloids!

Galaxy · 05-31-2005, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Just saw the 'Outside the Lines' story! One of the favorite chants at the FA Cup by supporters?

"Malcolm Glazer... is gonna DIE, is gonna DIE!"

::scared:: Wow... not all that surprising, but wow anyway.

And then the Glazer's tried to avoid questions about it from the press is going to kill them in the British tabloids!

They did have one good point about not talking about the sale until it is complete, due to stock rules. The stock regulators are pretty strict with that. Google's chiefs had to delayed their stock for an interview in Playboy.

Do you really think that they have an "Anti-American" sentiment, or just that they are using it as an excuse because they don't like his way of financing a team?

Does any other club have the "clout" of the United, in terms of global "brand"? Will Chelsea become the new "United"?

daedalus · 06-01-2005, 01:04 AM

If having 25 to play with after successive seasons of buying Rio and Rooney is reason to complain then perhaps he SHOULD be out.

I also think that reports of United's demise may be premature. They're getting older, yes. They don't have a replacement for Keane, true. But Keane isn't exactly an easy guy to replace. Also, according to many accounts, Kieran Richardson impressed during his time at West Brom. And, according to some of the Gunners fan on the BigSoccer board, Darren Fletcher was quite impressive in the game at Old Trafford. Christiano Ronaldo is obviously talented. If they continue to progress, that sounds like a solid bunch in the middle of the park. Giggs and Scholes are getting older but seems to still be effective, even if Keane is apparently feeling the calls of Father Time.

Van Nistelrooij is still a quality striker and I don't see that changing for awhile but he needs a permanent partner, whether it's Rooney, Smith or Saha. None of them are Golden Shoes winners (it HAD to be said

) but I think Rooney is probably the best candidate right now with his ability to create and RvN's ability to finish. Perhaps Rossi will get into the picture in the near future.

Heinze worked out well in his first season and Ferdinand is a great player. I don't see Brown being comfortable as a fullback and Silvestre, like Toure, seems to need a field general to partner with to excel but, if Ferdinand can stay healthy, then that's quality AND depth on defense. If goals given up is any measure then only Chelsea is better this past season, in spite of uncertainties between the posts.

With all that, I just don't see them going anywhere anytime soon. I just would like to think that we'll be better.

daedalus · 06-01-2005, 01:15 AM

Personal OPINIONS:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Do you really think that they have an "Anti-American" sentiment, or just that they are using it as an excuse because they don't like his way of financing a team?

Nitpicking a little, I think that if it's anything anti-, it'd be anti-foreigner. But I think the objection here is probably a combination of both with the vehemence due to the method of finance taking a team operating in profit to one fighting immense debt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Does any other club have the "clout" of the United, in terms of global "brand"? Will Chelsea become the new "United"?

Real Madrid is perhaps more famous with its recent Galacticos policy and history but Manchester United was a club operating in profit without needing to constantly be rescued by a friendly government. To me, that represents "clout" in its own way. I think Chelsea now have name awareness and are trying to build toward the name brand that Real Madrid and Manchester United current have.

AlexB · 06-01-2005, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxy

They did have one good point about not talking about the sale until it is complete, due to stock rules. The stock regulators are pretty strict with that. Google's chiefs had to delayed their stock for an interview in Playboy.

Do you really think that they have an "Anti-American" sentiment, or just that they are using it as an excuse because they don't like his way of financing a team?

Does any other club have the "clout" of the United, in terms of global "brand"? Will Chelsea become the new "United"?

A couple of ironies that mean nothing at the end of the day:

United fans are known for chanting 'USA, USA' when Tim Howard is in goal: they are generally seen to be anti-the England national team rather than anti-foreigner due to the perceived criticism of United's England players in the 90s. This is a large reason why they also chant Argentina for Heinze - they chanted 'Ar-gen-tina' after the Beckham 1998 episode in support of him then, and it carried on from this through Veron (to beging with

) onto Heinze now. But I imagine Howard won;t be hearing too many USA chants from now on

A very vocal opposition group is the Independent Manchester United Supporters Association - their initials spell out I'M USA

Mac Howard · 06-01-2005, 09:02 AM

Like Mark Twain's, Utd's demise has been exaggerated. Anyone that saw the FA Cup Final saw them totally outplay the team that has arguably been playing the best football in the Premiership for the last few weeks of the season and accumulated 84 points (enough in any other season to win the Premiership - ie it would beat the second team's total) in season 2004/5. That was not the performance of a team on the way down. However, they do need to modify their tactics for the bunker defences of the Premiership to avoid the draws they suffered this season. A fully fit van Nistelrooy (missing nearly 4 months this season) should help out.

Nevertheless they do need to improve their replacement players particularly in central midfield.

There are three sources of the anti-Americanism:

1) there is surely a smattering of the same shabby anti-Americanism you currently see throughout the world amongst some fans.

2) a feeling that an American cannot understand either the culture or the economics of soccer. Glazer has shown no willingness whatsoever to understand the first even now. But the second is even more crucial because the worst thing that can happen now is that Glazer's business plans fail. Everything Utd owns is now mortgaged and Glazer himself is in even deeper with financial organisations that will skin him alive if he fails to redeem the PIKs he's issued to fund around $500 million of his loan. Failure to triple Utd's profits could see everything disappear in smoke.

And failure will most likely come from the nature of the business - a structure raw in tooth and claw in market forces not the mollycoddled structure of the NFL with its salary cap, reverse skill draft and lack of relegation.

3) it's not just the takeover of a soccer club that is reviled but the whole idea of leveraged buy-outs - where a company is bought with borrowed money and the responsibility for the debt is moved to the company and eventually repayed with the future profits of that company. It's a 1980/90s financial manouevre that has an appalling record and a dubious morality. Even for a commercial entity - set up purely for profit - such buy-outs are frowned upon. For a soccer club, set up essentially to serve the sporting interests of its fans, it's a crying shame - and one that has caused the British Government to look at new regulations to stop it happening again. It's seen essentially as an American business manouevre.

So there is anti-Americanism there but only partially the stuff you guys see daily on your tv screens from throughout the world but mainly from a rational objection to an owner not versed in the culture, history and economics of the game precisely because he comes from a country with little or no interest in the game.

Galaxy · 06-01-2005, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daedalus

Personal OPINIONS:Nitpicking a little, I think that if it's anything anti-, it'd be anti-foreigner. But I think the objection here is probably a combination of both with the vehemence due to the method of finance taking a team operating in profit to one fighting immense debt.Real Madrid is perhaps more famous with its recent Galacticos policy and history but Manchester United was a club operating in profit without needing to constantly be rescued by a friendly government. To me, that represents "clout" in its own way. I think Chelsea now have name awareness and are trying to build toward the name brand that Real Madrid and Manchester United current have.

Whats the "Galacticos" policy? So any team can reach the level of the MU and Madrid, just need to invest the time, money and win to do it?

DaddyTorgo · 06-01-2005, 05:55 PM

the "galacticos" policy is the I dunno...the monikor that Real Madrid have earned since Florentino Perez began his policy of going out every offseason and basically buying the best player on the market regardless of whether Madrid actually need them. Thus you get Michael Owen sitting on the bench while Raul and Ronaldo start up front. Or a midfield crowded with so many players that guys that would be starters anywhere else, and in fact do start for their national teams end up sitting on the bench. it's what people call them for them basically being the Yankees of soccer.

05-31-2005, 11:50 PM	#101
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Just saw the 'Outside the Lines' story! One of the favorite chants at the FA Cup by supporters? "Malcolm Glazer... is gonna DIE, is gonna DIE!" ::scared:: Wow... not all that surprising, but wow anyway. And then the Glazer's tried to avoid questions about it from the press is going to kill them in the British tabloids! __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

06-01-2005, 09:02 AM	#106
Mac Howard Sick as a Parrot Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Surfers Paradise, Australia	Like Mark Twain's, Utd's demise has been exaggerated. Anyone that saw the FA Cup Final saw them totally outplay the team that has arguably been playing the best football in the Premiership for the last few weeks of the season and accumulated 84 points (enough in any other season to win the Premiership - ie it would beat the second team's total) in season 2004/5. That was not the performance of a team on the way down. However, they do need to modify their tactics for the bunker defences of the Premiership to avoid the draws they suffered this season. A fully fit van Nistelrooy (missing nearly 4 months this season) should help out. Nevertheless they do need to improve their replacement players particularly in central midfield. There are three sources of the anti-Americanism: 1) there is surely a smattering of the same shabby anti-Americanism you currently see throughout the world amongst some fans. 2) a feeling that an American cannot understand either the culture or the economics of soccer. Glazer has shown no willingness whatsoever to understand the first even now. But the second is even more crucial because the worst thing that can happen now is that Glazer's business plans fail. Everything Utd owns is now mortgaged and Glazer himself is in even deeper with financial organisations that will skin him alive if he fails to redeem the PIKs he's issued to fund around $500 million of his loan. Failure to triple Utd's profits could see everything disappear in smoke. And failure will most likely come from the nature of the business - a structure raw in tooth and claw in market forces not the mollycoddled structure of the NFL with its salary cap, reverse skill draft and lack of relegation. 3) it's not just the takeover of a soccer club that is reviled but the whole idea of leveraged buy-outs - where a company is bought with borrowed money and the responsibility for the debt is moved to the company and eventually repayed with the future profits of that company. It's a 1980/90s financial manouevre that has an appalling record and a dubious morality. Even for a commercial entity - set up purely for profit - such buy-outs are frowned upon. For a soccer club, set up essentially to serve the sporting interests of its fans, it's a crying shame - and one that has caused the British Government to look at new regulations to stop it happening again. It's seen essentially as an American business manouevre. So there is anti-Americanism there but only partially the stuff you guys see daily on your tv screens from throughout the world but mainly from a rational objection to an owner not versed in the culture, history and economics of the game precisely because he comes from a country with little or no interest in the game. __________________ Mac Howard - a Pom in Paradise Last edited by Mac Howard : 06-01-2005 at 09:10 AM.

06-01-2005, 05:55 PM	#108
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	the "galacticos" policy is the I dunno...the monikor that Real Madrid have earned since Florentino Perez began his policy of going out every offseason and basically buying the best player on the market regardless of whether Madrid actually need them. Thus you get Michael Owen sitting on the bench while Raul and Ronaldo start up front. Or a midfield crowded with so many players that guys that would be starters anywhere else, and in fact do start for their national teams end up sitting on the bench. it's what people call them for them basically being the Yankees of soccer. Last edited by DaddyTorgo : 06-01-2005 at 05:56 PM.

06-01-2005, 01:04 AM	#103
daedalus Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	If having 25 to play with after successive seasons of buying Rio and Rooney is reason to complain then perhaps he SHOULD be out. I also think that reports of United's demise may be premature. They're getting older, yes. They don't have a replacement for Keane, true. But Keane isn't exactly an easy guy to replace. Also, according to many accounts, Kieran Richardson impressed during his time at West Brom. And, according to some of the Gunners fan on the BigSoccer board, Darren Fletcher was quite impressive in the game at Old Trafford. Christiano Ronaldo is obviously talented. If they continue to progress, that sounds like a solid bunch in the middle of the park. Giggs and Scholes are getting older but seems to still be effective, even if Keane is apparently feeling the calls of Father Time. Van Nistelrooij is still a quality striker and I don't see that changing for awhile but he needs a permanent partner, whether it's Rooney, Smith or Saha. None of them are Golden Shoes winners (it HAD to be said ) but I think Rooney is probably the best candidate right now with his ability to create and RvN's ability to finish. Perhaps Rossi will get into the picture in the near future. Heinze worked out well in his first season and Ferdinand is a great player. I don't see Brown being comfortable as a fullback and Silvestre, like Toure, seems to need a field general to partner with to excel but, if Ferdinand can stay healthy, then that's quality AND depth on defense. If goals given up is any measure then only Chelsea is better this past season, in spite of uncertainties between the posts. With all that, I just don't see them going anywhere anytime soon. I just would like to think that we'll be better.

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