01-18-2005, 11:17 AM | #1 | |||
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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Coaching Not to Lose
Dr. Z's column today on si.com is a good one. You can read it here.
Anyway, in talking about the Jets, he makes a couple of points, one on purpose, and one in passing. Point #1: NFL coaches who coach not to lose, end up never winning the big one. He cites Herm Edwards' playcalling in the Pittsburgh game as an example, as well as Schottenheimer's decisions at the end of the Wild Card game a week ago. Gregg Easterbrook over at nfl.com often goes on at length about this as well. Going for the FG instead of taking a shot at the end zone. Trying to tie instead of trying to win. Running obvious run after obvious run instead of the occasional shot down the field, etc.... Question is, is Dr. Z right? I'm inclined to agree. Point #2: This point he doesn't make, but it occurred to me. Consider the following quote: Quote:
I'll call this "Smart Players Win You Games". Players who live the game, love the game, and study the game pick stuff like this up. New England, for instance, do this kind of thing almost every week (not that I'm trying to be a fanboi or anything). Anyway, just some food for thought. |
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01-18-2005, 11:48 AM | #2 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York
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In Detroit, Milt Plum's interception comes to mind...
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01-18-2005, 11:49 AM | #3 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Dr. Z my ass.
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01-18-2005, 11:52 AM | #4 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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Every time a team loses a game they are in position to win, someone complains that it' poor coaching. This "playing not to lose" stuff gets tossed around like a beach ball.
What we don't hear about are the times that the team in position to win actually shifts to a conservative strategy and accomplishes their goal. The "run out the clock" with a time-consuming drive, they force the opposing offense to complete many plays in a row rather than one big one, and the strategy works -- and they win. As they were supposed to. No headlines. I don't think there's any way to measure something like this, and I'm not trying to make a specific judgment about the Jets this week or any specific circumstance. But the knee-jerk reaction that "prevent defense just prevents yo from winning" and "play to win, don't play not to lose" is far, far overstated by fans and so-called analysts who probably ought to drink less beer anyway, to save those precious few brain cells thay have remaining. (Dr Z prominently included on that list, incidentally) |
01-18-2005, 11:57 AM | #5 |
High School JV
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Marietta, OH
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The only thing I would have done differently from herm is instead of kneeling the ball, I would have at least tried to recenter the ball to give him a dead straight kick. I have no problem with not taking a shot to the endzone. Pitt would be expecting that, our offense has been shaky at best all season, chances are nothing significant is going to happen. There's a lot more room for a negative (turnover, sack, fumble etc...) than there is for significant gain. Brien has to hit that 2nd one, and as a Jets fan I thought he would. Sometimes stuff like that happens. I won't blame Herm for that, I'd blame the kicker. He missed two kicks where he should have made at least one.
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01-18-2005, 11:57 AM | #6 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Placerville, CA
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Quote:
What he said. |
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01-18-2005, 11:58 AM | #7 |
Strategy Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Carolina
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All I have to point to is a 2 yard (literally) out route to Wayne Chrebet on 3rd and 10 in overtime.
I'm a Jets fan, and I've disliked Hackett from day 1. Herm I've grown to deal with, but he seems to have a very slow learning curve. |
01-18-2005, 12:01 PM | #8 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Placerville, CA
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Quote:
Did Pennington have anyone else to throw to? |
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01-18-2005, 12:02 PM | #9 | |
Strategy Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Carolina
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Quote:
The pass was immediate, leading me to believe it was the designed play with him as the primary receiver. |
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01-18-2005, 12:06 PM | #10 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
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To paraphrase M&TMD yesterday,
If you dont trust your QB, who you paid $60 Million to, to do anything but throw a pick returned for a TD, then get a new QB. The game was tied, the Jets werent going to lose that game on anything they did offensively, and Herm had no desire to get any closer than 43 yards, on grass, in the cold, at 8pm at night. Doug Brien didn't lose that game, Herm Edwards did. The Steelers didn't settle for a 43 yarder, they went out and moved the ball. |
01-18-2005, 12:21 PM | #11 |
College Starter
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Burlington, VT USA
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Playing not to win is like defining obscenity, I know it when I see it.
When San Diego failed to try to advance the ball in overtime on first down looking at a 40 yd fg, that's playing not to win. You try on first down to hit the homer. When they failed to put the ball between tthe hash marks on 2nd and 3rd down, same thing. That kick would hve been good if he had hit it from the middle. Last weekend, same deal. Why settle for a 43 yard attempt when you know your odds are better from 35? Why deviate from what got you here in the first place when it mattes most? |
01-18-2005, 01:04 PM | #12 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Quote:
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01-18-2005, 01:05 PM | #13 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2001
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I think that was the longest this season by a visiting kicker
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01-18-2005, 01:13 PM | #14 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Here and There
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Quote:
I remember that play as well and I agree with you. It was representative of the very (too) tight play calling in OT by the Jets. |
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01-18-2005, 01:18 PM | #15 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The State of Insanity
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Heinz Field is notorious for its swirling winds.
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01-18-2005, 01:19 PM | #16 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Ohio
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Anyone remember Ohio State's championship a few years ago? Tressel relied on a great defense&kicking game, and only scored sometimes. Some people would say Tressel played to not let his QB lose the game, but it got the job done. Some games it would drive me crazy, not trying to blow out the other team...but generally it got results.
Just wanted to throw that out here. |
01-18-2005, 01:22 PM | #17 |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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46 yards is the longest visiting field goal in the 4 years the stadium has been open. Jeff Reed has kicked a 48 yarder at Heinz Field. Yes, it is very difficult to make field goals at Heinz Field.
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01-18-2005, 01:41 PM | #18 | |
Strategy Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Carolina
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Quote:
I believe the stadium also has by far the lowest FG % of the league's stadiums. |
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