DC Expos?

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by clintl

That's not really true. The Expos were a good, successful franchise for a long time until they ended up getting bought by a horrible owner, and then sold to an even worse one. In the good years, though, the Expos were very well supported, and Montreal is a larger economic market than a number of American cities with teams.

But not a larger baseball economic market. Even during their "successful" years of the late 70s and early 80s, they were at the bottom of ranking in media revenues. Even though they outdrew Oakland during those years, Montreal's revenues from non-attendance items were tiny. They managed during those years to get by but even the other owners had treated them like a poor stepchild. You're right in that it got worse - but they were already down there. (I am trying to remember where I had read about this.)

[clintl]

There's no doubt that it is one of the smaller markets. But it was still a viable market until bad ownership ruined it, or should have been.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Nothing too out of the ordinary, esp. compared to the bribes or "compensations" in relocating teams in the 50s and 60s.

Relocating teams do often get sweet deals - the Ravens got one when moving in the 90's. But, the bribes and compensations are usually paid out by the city gaining the team.

I think that the other owners paying a current owner so that they can make a franchise move that owner has no power to stop is unprecedented.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Relocating teams do often get sweet deals - the Ravens got one when moving in the 90's. But, the bribes and compensations are usually paid out by the city gaining the team.

I think that the other owners paying a current owner so that they can make a franchise move that owner has no power to stop is unprecedented.

Sometime soon, let me dig up some anecdotes on owner and league shenanigans from the late 1800s and early 1900s, plus as a bonus, something on the owner/league collusions on franchises such as the KC A's.

[mgadfly]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Is Springfield, MA a separate, major city?? With a population by itself capable of supporting a major pro franchise. And besides, putting a MLB team there would not cost Boston a single ticket sale (at least not one that would not be purchased by someone else).

It is really frustrating to me when people lump Baltimore and Washington together. They may be geographically close, but they are really completely different places (that hate each other, btw). Going from one to the other is considered a long trip by residents of either city, as well as something akin to a prison sentence. Don't let the 30 mile nominal distance fool you, it is a minimum 1.5 hour trip, and about 3 hours if you want to make a weeknight Oriole game.

Colin Cowherd had a great point today - Baltimore and the MD counties surrounding it have more population base available to support it than half of the major league cities. If Angelos put a decent product on the field, he would not have to worry about drawing distant fans.

I lived in DC for awhile, and I went to Oriole's games. If there had been a team in DC, I would have gone to those instead. Assuming that there are a few fans like me, there'd be a ticket loss for Baltimore as well as potential television deal losses. (Also, a lot of people in DC are looking to go see "their" team play rather than the home team. For example, I went and saw the Seahawks, Mariners, Sonics, and Bucks play because I had some attachment to those teams, not the Orioles, Redskins, Ravens, or Wizards. If I had had the choice to see my team in D.C., or go to Baltimore, I'd have stuck to the Metro and stayed in the city)

[cuervo72]

Yes, but they are in different leagues. Sure, I will be more apt to see the Phillies in DC now (good luck getting those tickets at Camden Yards). I don't think there will be many opportunities to see the Mariners come to DC though.

[chinaski]

The ONLY reason the Expos are in DC now..... Fred Malek.

Former Nixon aide, former Carlyle group advisor, former Rangers partner with GW, former CREEP director (Committe to re-elect the president - fitting name), and oh yea also a NAZI supporter and a racist.

I love my country.

[ISiddiqui]

I don't get this it's going to kill Baltimore talk. The Washington - Baltimore area has grown a lot since the Senators last left Washington and Baltimore has plenty of fan base in Maryland, while Washington can tap into the Northern Virginia market. If NY, Chicago, and LA can handle two teams, I don't see why Balt-Wash can't.

[ISiddiqui]

Btw, anyone else think it's a shame that the last Expos game isn't on ESPN tonight?

[clintl]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I don't get this it's going to kill Baltimore talk. The Washington - Baltimore area has grown a lot since the Senators last left Washington and Baltimore has plenty of fan base in Maryland, while Washington can tap into the Northern Virginia market. If NY, Chicago, and LA can handle two teams, I don't see why Balt-Wash can't.

NY, Chicago, and LA are all quite a bit larger than Washington-Baltimore. However, Washington-Baltimore has almost exactly the same population as the San Francisco Bay Area, and like SF, has a pretty affluent economic base. My guess is that both teams survive, but there might be some shaky times for the Expos there (who will probably be in the A's role economically until they can get a new ballpark).

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Btw, anyone else think it's a shame that the last Expos game isn't on ESPN tonight?

I do.
It's also a shame that they're gonna give this team a loser name like "Senators"

I hope the new owners don't bow to media pressure.

[ISiddiqui]

NY, Chicago, and LA are all quite a bit larger than Washington-Baltimore.

NY and LA I agree with you. Chicago, however, is not that much bigger than Washingon-Baltimore metro area:

http://www.demographia.com/db-usmet2000.htm

About a million and half more people in Chicago metro area. And yeah, I should have mentioned SF-Oak, they slipped my mind for a second.

And if you split the Wash-Balt metro population in half, you get 3,804,035, which is greater than the populations in the metro areas of Seattle, Cleveland, and St. Louis.

[Bad-example]

If the Expos are moving to D.C. then perhaps they should consider using the same name as the local pro football team.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

If the Expos are moving to D.C. then perhaps they should consider using the same name as the local pro football team.

There's a pro football team in DC?

[Maple Leafs]

In case you're not able to watch, the Expos game was almost forfeited in the early goings when the fans kept throwing golf balls on the field (about three separate incidents). McKeon wanted the game called, but the umps were a little more patient.

[ISiddiqui]

Gotta like the fans . That's a good show, but rationally, the team had to go.

[ISiddiqui]

Dola..

The umps were smart too... calling the game would have probably resulted in a riot.

[SirFozzie]

Holy shit.. the deal is even BETTER for Angelos.. WHAT. THE. FUCK?!?!??!

With the arrival of baseball in Washington, it looks like Comcast SportsNet will rely on separate feeds for DC and Baltimore. A DCRTVer tells us that WTEM unveiled some of the agreement between Major League Baseball and Orioles owner Peter Angelos. Basically, CSN will carry both the Orioles and the Washington team's games in the DC area, however it will feature only Orioles games in the Baltimore area. During scheduling conflicts, the Orioles will be carried by CSN in both markets, with the Washington team on a second channel in the DC region. Also, Angelos will get 67 percent of the TV revenue the combined teams make. Nothing from radio. More as we hear it.....

[ISiddiqui]

Angelos will get 67 percent of the TV revenue the combined teams make.

Jeez that's ridiculous. When you deal with the Devil, you are bound to get burned, I guess.

[21C]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

It's also a shame that they're gonna give this team a loser name like "Senators"

I hope the new owners don't bow to media pressure.

From AP, "Naming the team is sure to spur much debate. ( Mayor ) Williams likes the name "Washington Grays'' as a tribute to the Homestead Grays, a Negro League team that played in Washington in the 1930s and 1940s. The Senators would be a sentimental favorite, but that name would have to be acquired from the Rangers, who still own its rights."

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

With the arrival of baseball in Washington, it looks like Comcast SportsNet will rely on separate feeds for DC and Baltimore. A DCRTVer tells us that WTEM unveiled some of the agreement between Major League Baseball and Orioles owner Peter Angelos. Basically, CSN will carry both the Orioles and the Washington team's games in the DC area, however it will feature only Orioles games in the Baltimore area. During scheduling conflicts, the Orioles will be carried by CSN in both markets, with the Washington team on a second channel in the DC region. Also, Angelos will get 67 percent of the TV revenue the combined teams make. Nothing from radio. More as we hear it.....

Hmm...looks like Angelos is going to do everything he can to make sure the Washington team can suck as badly as his team does for the foreseeable future while he pockets the difference. Scumbag.

[gottimd]

I forgot where I saw it, but they did a study on the population, fan base, median income, etc and DC was around the 12-15 in each category out of all of the Major League teams. I believe the team will have enough support and revenue to sufficiently operate. It will also revitalize that area of DC which is pretty much in shambles.

As far as the name goes, that will be interesting. Many want the Senators, but as noted in this thread and on the news, the Rangers still own that name. They were also called the "Nationals" which wouldn't be awful, they referred to them as the Nat's in the papers in the "days of yore". I just hope they don't go with an expansion like nickname as the other sports have like the SaberCats and have neon green and yellow as their colors. Maybe they should be called the Confederates, so that way when they play the Yankees, it will be the Yankees vs. Confederates. Okay, just kidding.

The News stations here have been all over the discussions about the team names, and mentioned that I have heard are (some you know):
Senators
Greys
Fire throwing Ass hats
Nationals
Monuments
Banana Hammocks
Feds
Governers
G-Men

Obviously most leading to a Political/Government type name.

[GrantDawg]

How about "Jack-booted Thugs."

[Samdari]

The Capitol Punishment.

Only name that works.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Chicago, however, is not that much bigger than Washingon-Baltimore metro area:

Yes, but. The White Sox have eternal attendance problems. U.S. Cellular Field is also located in an area of comparable blight to that of where they intend to put D.C.'s new team.

On the other hand, a stadium in D.C. will have no problem selling out the boxes, what with all the law and lobbying firms in the city.

[gottimd]

Anyone already a fan of the no named Washington team? Inquire about tickets here

[rkmsuf]

Washington Gibbs

Go with what you know.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Washington Leakers has also been mentionned.

Personnaly, I like the Washington Cigars...

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by 21c

From AP, "Naming the team is sure to spur much debate. ( Mayor ) Williams likes the name "Washington Grays'' as a tribute to the Homestead Grays, a Negro League team that played in Washington in the 1930s and 1940s. The Senators would be a sentimental favorite, but that name would have to be acquired from the Rangers, who still own its rights."

Anything that pays homage to the Negro Leagues is pretty darn cool. I think the AP writer might be playing up the "spur much debate". C'mon- the owner will have a (fake) contest, choose the name they already want with a decent contender and three rummies, then take the one they wanted to start with.

SI

[Young Drachma]

What would be the team's new colours. Yeah, so they'll be the Grays. I wonder if it'll be like Gray..and what else? Red? Blue? It'd need to look good or else...it won't work. Something simple, but dignified would be best IMHO.