Yet another school shooting.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And just for those keeping score, the 9 arrests in Georgia don't count the myriad of "not credible" threats being made to schools around the state.

My old hometown system has dealt with two of those in the last 24 hours. Kids trying to get a cancelled school day off most likely.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Generally, credible requires 1) intent, and 2) ability (or at least apparent ability)

Quoting myself seems easiest way to tie a couple things together.

"Apparent ability" is why Clarke is able to arrest the 12 y/o who used pictures from the internet to "appear" to have access to multiple guns.

Again, the arrest is a good ways from a conviction though, since absent the weapons intent becomes tougher to prove.

[RainMaker]

I feel like sending threats about mass shootings should be illegal if it's not. Even if you don't have the means, that still causes havoc at schools and with resources.

Feels like a few weeks in juvie would scare off the kids who are doing this to get out of a test but who knows. I just hate that people can fuck with other people, businesses, schools, etc and suffer no consequences.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just adding on to the hell week it has to be for every LEO office in the state right now

Oconee County Georgia Sheriff's Office
·
Oconee County, GA – On September 6th, around 9:25AM, the Oconee County Sheriff’s Office was alerted by Oconee County School administrators regarding a MBES student making potential threats of school violence.

The student was immediately isolated and interviewed, and it was determined that there were no credible threats and no danger to students or staff. The situation was quickly de-escalated, and the juvenile was detained and handed over to the Department of Juvenile Justice without incident.

Let's note "detained" and "handed over", not "arrested" or "charged". DJJ will likely do an evaluation & investigation of their own.

And yes, if it wasn't obvious, MBES is an elementary school (K-5), No. 8 public elementary school in Georgia as rated by Niche, 2-time Blue Ribbon Lighthouse School of Excellence, yadda yadda.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I feel like sending threats about mass shootings should be illegal if it's not.

Well, it is "illegal", but at a fairly low level of illegality.

[GrantDawg]

Yeah, Oconee is now the area everyone wants to be in. Lots of money around that lake.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Yeah, Oconee is now the area everyone wants to be in. Lots of money around that lake.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

Not that Oconee, this is Oconee County ... about 4 mins to the county line from my current position.

You're thinking Lake Oconee, about an hour's drive from here to the east (Greensboro, GA basically)

Unless of course you were being facetious and that flew right over my head.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well, it is "illegal", but at a fairly low level of illegality.

Even a misdemeanor charge is worth it to get the kid in the system and maybe scare them. If they're going through the trouble of charging kids for shoplifting a few candy bars, they should do it for something that causes a ton of trouble for everyone.

Our local library was getting regular bomb threats last year and it was such a massive pain. Each time they'd have to empty the building, run a bomb dog or something through, then let everyone back in.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not that Oconee, this is Oconee County ... about 4 mins to the county line from my current position.

You're thinking Lake Oconee, about an hour's drive from here to the east (Greensboro, GA basically)

Unless of course you were being facetious and that flew right over my head.

No, my bad. I thought Eatonton/Greensboro was in Oconee county, but it is the next county over. Of course, the statement still stands. Trendy areas with lots of money moving in.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Even a misdemeanor charge is worth it to get the kid in the system and maybe scare them.

Highly unlikely it's anything more than a court appearance & some paperwork.
Nobody is spending any meaningful time in detention (due to perpetual space issues) for a misdemeanor

If they're going through the trouble of charging kids for shoplifting a few candy bars, they should do it for something that causes a ton of trouble for everyone.

2 counties away is where I am and the prosecutor can't even try rape & murder charges. It's better in Barrow but the days of charging for penny candy are long gone pretty much anywhere that I know of.

Our local library was getting regular bomb threats last year and it was such a massive pain. Each time they'd have to empty the building, run a bomb dog or something through, then let everyone back in.

If you go deep into the statutes here, something that causes an evacuation (typically a bomb threat) DOES have the potential to be a more elevated and/or additional crime. Remember that "interfering with operations of a public school" I mentioned earlier, that would qualify.

Except that threats involving schools hardly ever end up with an evacuation, only occasionally do they reach that threshold of interfering best I can tell. Typically those incidents are reported outside of school hours and typically deemed not credible in plenty of time for the buses to pick up on schedule the next day.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I feel like sending threats about mass shootings should be illegal if it's not. Even if you don't have the means, that still causes havoc at schools and with resources.

Feels like a few weeks in juvie would scare off the kids who are doing this to get out of a test but who knows. I just hate that people can fuck with other people, businesses, schools, etc and suffer no consequences.

I generically agree with you, but if it's an issue of optimal vs. practical, I can also see why it isn't happening. Optimally, for every credible threat, there are criminal charges AND you lockdown/evacuate the location, and for every non-credible threat, there are criminal charges, but you don't have to lockdown/evacuate. That said, other than Jon's comments above, I don't have any sort of sense of how it is in Georgia, but I know for a fact that here in Greensboro--and I don't have reason to believe that we're outliers--right now they simply don't have the bandwidth to investigate/arrest/prosecute hardly any juvenile misdemeanors. (And for that matter, they're also not going especially hard on adult misdemeanors that aren't "easy" arrests.) I've been aware of that fact for months, but I hadn't really connected it to these sorts of threats until now. So, yeah, I guess upon further thought it shouldn't surprise me that generally folks are skating on these. :sigh:

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The biggest people problem is those who would abridge the overwhelmingly single most vital right of an American citizen.

The right for states to maintain "well-regulated" militias, for defense against autocrats, likely to include arms for those militias maintained in armories? That right?

[RainMaker]

No no no, the new right they made in 2008.

[flere-imsaho]

But surely if the right wasn't codified in the 19th century it can't matter to the august members of this Supreme Court, right?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

The right for states to maintain "well-regulated" militias, for defense against autocrats, likely to include arms for those militias maintained in armories? That right?

All of mine have been lost in a tragic series of boating accidents, same as many of my friend's.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

No, my bad. I thought Eatonton/Greensboro was in Oconee county, but it is the next county over. Of course, the statement still stands. Trendy areas with lots of money moving in.

Most of the Oconee County money showed up a couple decades ago, the result of white flight from neighboring Clarke, plain & simple. For quite a few years, it was the only county in Georgia that had a poverty rate (sub 1% around the time we moved up here) so low that they couldn't qualify to participate in the federal school lunch programs.

OC (as we call it at times) has actually been shi-shi for so long now that it's starting to become a place people are leaving for greener pastures, it's already peaked.

[Danny]

It is often not something intended to get a school day off.

All schools have kids who have significant emotional and or behavioral issues. Sometimes a rumor is started, something misheard, a comment out of anger, something said for attention, etc... Ive been part of at least one if not multiple threat assessment teams at any given time and there are situations needing assessment regularly at the high school and middle school level (and even somewhat often at elementary level though these are usually kids saying things they dont really understand)

[Drake]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Could you use that hammer to kill 60 and wound 400+ from a 32nd floor window?

(I don't think even the Hammer Brothers could do that.)

I mean, I could* if I could get them** to agree to stand in one place for long enough.

* That's probably optimistic for my old man shoulder tendonitis. Not to mention, that'd be a lot of stairs to traverse at least 460 times.

** I assume we're not talking about coyotes anymore. I don't know how I'd get 500 coyotes to agree to stay in one place. Free TNT, maybe? But then it's a self-solving problem, coyotes being coyotes and all.

[Danny]

Just want to add, just about every single non transient (and many not credible) threat I helped assess involved an emotionally troubled individual with access to firearms in the home. And literally nothing we could do to change that unless an actual crime was committed by the family member with said guns. Pretty much every kid in our emotional and behavioral programs had firearms in their home.

[Edward64]

CNN with a little more speculation on the charges against the father.

Charges for Colin Gray, the Georgia school shooting suspect’s father, push the boundaries of who’s responsible for a mass gun attack | CNN

Like the Crumbley trials, a trial in Gray’s case likely would probe whether the Georgia shooting was reasonably foreseeable and if the father acted recklessly and with negligence, CNN’s experts said.

Key to the Georgia case will be how Colt allegedly was given the gun just months after his father was made aware of the alleged online threats, McDonald said.

Authorities searching Colt’s bedroom found documents they believe he wrote referencing past school shootings, including mentions of the 2018 massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, a law enforcement source familiar with the investigation told CNN.

It’s unclear what, if anything, Colt’s father knew about the documents.

The case against Gray is “all going to boil down to what was the knowledge that this dad had about his son,” Villalona said, adding she expects an outcome similar to that of the Crumbley cases.

Article didn't say if the weapon were secured and/or how the kid got access to it. I'd think that is a key detail for the case.

The father giving a firearm to his son as a gift violates state law, Villalona said: “In Georgia, it is illegal to provide a minor with a firearm” – though exceptions exist for hunting, at a firing range and at home with adult permission.

“This is going to be a prosecution about gross negligence: the degree to which you put a firearm in the hands of your son and knowing potentially what the dangers are and what your son’s behavior is,” said Jackson, the legal analyst.

Gray’s actions reflect a “complete and utter dereliction of responsibility,” said gun violence prevention group Everytown for Gun Safety’s senior vice president for law and policy, Nick Suplina.

I did not know it was illegal giving a "firearm" to minor violates state law. I know a minor having a "handgun" is illegal in GA but don't think it applies to "rifles" also.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I did not know it was illegal giving a "firearm" to minor violates state law. I know a minor having a "handgun" is illegal in GA but don't think it applies to "rifles" also.

I think the statement is wrong. I have yet to see the law that makes it illegal. They can't purchase a gun, and I would probably say that preclude actual ownership. So if they are saying he couldn't legally own the gun, then ok. But in essence he could have possession of the gun at any time, and the law does not require the gun be secure from minors.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I think the statement is wrong. I have yet to see the law that makes it illegal. They can't purchase a gun, and I would probably say that preclude actual ownership. So if they are saying he couldn't legally own the gun, then ok. But in essence he could have possession of the gun at any time, and the law does not require the gun be secure from minors.

From NRA website specific to GA, minors and handguns (not rifles)

Georgia State Gun Laws and Regulations Explained | NRA-ILA

Possession by a Minor (Under 18)

It is unlawful for a minor to possess a handgun or for a person to furnish a handgun to a minor. Georgia Code 16-11-132,

[GrantDawg]

So according to the police report on earlier investigation, the police did call the father and say that they could not prove the son made the earlier threat because they couldn't verify the initial report. They had during the initial investigation warned the dad to keep Colt away from firearms, but having told him they couldn't prove the allegations you do have to wonder if that was enough of a warning. According to reports, there was hand-written items found in Colt's bedroom that showed some school shooting ideology, and there are online posts with fascination of the Sandy Hook shooter and anger over the acceptance of trans people. Again, how much did the dad know? If they can find one witness where the dad admits he knew his son had made those initial threats, then he is in serious trouble. But without that, IDK if they have enough.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Again, how much did the dad know? If they can find one witness where the dad admits he knew his son had made those initial threats, then he is in serious trouble. But without that, IDK if they have enough.

Kind of echoes my words to Will right after the arrest was announced, they better have (ZERO pun intended) a smoking gun or they won't get a conviction.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Kind of echoes my words to Will right after the arrest was announced, they better have (ZERO pun intended) a smoking gun or they won't get a conviction.

Agreed, but I will say just what we have seen of the family I give it a pretty high chance the dad has said something stupid to someone.

[Ksyrup]

Apparently there is an active shooter on or near I-75 in Laurel County KY (southern KY between Lexington and Knoxville). Unknown number of people shot (what I see says "numerous"), and I'm not sure if they were in cars or the shooter ended up on the highway?

[Ksyrup]

Jesus. Seeing reports of 9 dead, possible sniper on an overpass situation maybe?

[GrantDawg]

CNN finally reporting. Seen from 6-9 shot on social media. Possible sniper, but there has also been a report of "road rage" indecent.

[Ksyrup]

From the reporting I'm seeing it's someone in the woods just off the interstate.

[Ksyrup]

Scanner says police are approaching a barn in the direction of last known sighting of active shooter on I-75. Shots came from elevated position. #LondonKY #ActiveShooter #Shooting #London #Kentucky #GunViolence #I75 #Interstate75

— Nick (@SeattleBallin) September 7, 2024

[Ksyrup]

Suspect is 32 year old Joseph Couch, former military. Bought an AR15 and 2000 rounds this morning.

[Ksyrup]

Not sure if this is true/accurate from the police scanner, but...

BREAKING NOW
from scanner
Shooter just fired on more people. Multiple 911 calls reporting shootings in progress.#Kentucky#Activeshooter

— Pugs Moran (GEN-Xpert) (@pugsandco) September 8, 2024

[Ksyrup]

4 injured from shooting, 3 injured from auto accidents due to the shooting.

[GrantDawg]

The mother of Colt Gray called the school that morning and warned them that Colt had been saying he was going to shoot up the school. This came after weeks of her trying to get him in therapy for being violent and suicidal. I think I can see where they have a pretty solid case versus the father now. The school also looks pretty culpable.
https://archive.ph/wpHGY

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[Ben E Lou]

There’s a lot that’s confusing to me in that Post article. First off, where did mom/grandma/sister live? Were they moving around following dad and Colt, or were they in Fitzgerald as other reports indicate? And this sentence…

A counselor told Gray during the call that her son had been talking about school shooting that morning, according to Gray’s sister, Annie Brown, who described family discussions of the events to The Post.

I can’t tell if this is a school counselor or a general mental health counselor. If the former, how’s the school telling the mom that rather than vice versa? If it’s an outside counselor, then why is there nothing mentioned about mandated reporting??? (Like, uh, you call the POLICE before you call the mom.) As far as the dad, as dysfunctional as this entire situation was, I don’t see how this piece indicates any more or less culpability on his part. Specifically, there’s no mention of how much—if any—of this was communicated to the father. Yeah, in most situations we’d like to assume that all the adults were working together and putting aside grievances with one another to help the kid, but in THIS case??? Nah, I can’t assume that for one second. Just speculation here, but as much apparent acrimony toward dadas there was on mom’s side of the family, the fact that there’s no “AND WE TOLD COLIN THIS BUT HE DIDNT DO ANYTHING” at all in the piece makes me wonder if he was in the dark about whatever conversations were happening in the immediate run up to the shooting.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

There’s a lot that’s confusing to me in that Post article. First off, where did mom/grandma/sister live? Were they moving around following dad and Colt, or were they in Fitzgerald as other reports indicate? And this sentence…I can’t tell if this is a school counselor or a general mental health counselor. If the former, how’s the school telling the mom that rather than vice versa? If it’s an outside counselor, then why is there nothing mentioned about mandated reporting??? (Like, uh, you call the POLICE before you call the mom.) As far as the dad, as dysfunctional as this entire situation was, I don’t see how this piece indicates any more or less culpability on his part. Specifically, there’s no mention of how much—if any—of this was communicated to the father. Yeah, in most situations we’d like to assume that all the adults were working together and putting aside grievances with one another to help the kid, but in THIS case??? Nah, I can’t assume that for one second. Just speculation here, but as much apparent acrimony toward dadas there was on mom’s side of the family, the fact that there’s no “AND WE TOLD COLIN THIS BUT HE DIDNT DO ANYTHING” at all in the piece makes me wonder if he was in the dark about whatever conversations were happening in the immediate run up to the shooting.

I really think it was that Gray told the counselor. I believe it that is bad editing.
Edit: Or even that the sister who is being quoted got it confused.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

All of mine have been lost in a tragic series of boating accidents, same as many of my friend's.

Thoughts and prayers.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Thoughts and prayers.

I appreciate that.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I really think it was that Gray told the counselor. I believe it that is bad editing.
Edit: Or even that the sister who is being quoted got it confused.

Yeah, my strong suspicion is that the family is claiming that mom told the school Counselor that, and I agree that either one of those could be the case. I should admit that my skepticism radar is extremely high in general on this piece, given that much of the info is coming from the same aunt that made the insane now-deleted FB posts…

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

4 injured from shooting, 3 injured from auto accidents due to the shooting.

My wife was on this road yesterday. A little too close to home...

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

First off, where did mom/grandma/sister live? Were they moving around following dad and Colt, or were they in Fitzgerald as other reports indicate?

Yeah, ok, Fitzgerald. That was kind of an important thing to note, no? CNN thought it important enough to put in a headline. Mother of shooting suspect called Apalachee High School and drove 200 miles after getting alarming text, grandfather says

Going back to the WaPo piece, the reason I questioned the locations is that they reported that grandma had "gone to see" a school counselor a week-ish before the shooting. So did she drive up from Fitzgerald too? And again, if they understood it to be so critical that it was worth the drive for an in-person meeting, were they choosing not to communicate with dad, was dad ignoring them, or...what?
Lastly, all he texted her was "I'm sorry, mom" and THAT caused her to call the school and then drive all the way there???
I'm thinking we should take everything sourced from the Polhamus clan with a gigantic grain of salt. This stuff ain't adding up.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Yeah, ok, Fitzgerald. That was kind of an important thing to note, no? CNN thought it important enough to put in a headline. Mother of shooting suspect called Apalachee High School and drove 200 miles after getting alarming text, grandfather says



Going back to the WaPo piece, the reason I questioned the locations is that they reported that grandma had "gone to see" a school counselor a week-ish before the shooting. So did she drive up from Fitzgerald too? And again, if they understood it to be so critical that it was worth the drive for an in-person meeting, were they choosing not to communicate with dad, was dad ignoring them, or...what?

Lastly, all he texted her was "I'm sorry, mom" and THAT caused her to call the school and then drive all the way there???
I'm thinking we should take everything sourced from the Polhamus clan with a gigantic grain of salt. This stuff ain't adding up.

Sure, but there is a couple of things cverified in that article. First, that she made the call to the school. They have the call record and the school did react to the call, if poorly. Second, they have text between them and the school a week before the shooting about Colt's mental health. They also have text after the grandmother met with the school administrators talking about the meeting. I doubt that is made up. The text are going really hard to pass off. I wouldn't trust their statements per se, but they don't strike me as [eople who would know how to dupe text messages.

None of this necessarily proves anything about what the dad knew. It is all going to be guessing until we have more of what the prosecution has.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I'm thinking we should take everything sourced from the Polhamus clan with a gigantic grain of salt.

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

None of this necessarily proves anything about what the dad knew. It is all going to be guessing until we have more of what the prosecution has.

I agree. The aunts first reaction in that FB post left a bad taste in my mouth and makes me suspicious of what she/Polhamus family have to say.

I want to know if the rifle was locked up or kid had easy access. If easy access (e.g. left lying around, didn't hide the keys etc.), that is a big strike against the dad. Wouldn't that question be asked by reporters by now?

But IMO, nothing right now indicates the level of negligence like the Crumbley case.

[Edward64]

Alleged Georgia shooter Colt Gray's mom says son 'not a monster' in open letter apologizing to victims

“To the parents and families of those affected by the tragic events at Apalachee High School, I want to say that I am so sorry from the bottom of my heart,” Marcee Gray, Colt’s mother, wrote in the letter which she provided to CNN.

Nicely said

“If I could take the place of Mason and Christian, I would without a second thought,” she said, referring to the two 14-year-olds killed in the mass shooting. She later added that her “heart breaks for the 2 teachers who gave their lives while in the service of teaching and protecting our children.”

Nicely said

The mother continued: “We are all in a living nightmare right now, and I will personally never forgive myself for what has happened.”

Nicely said

“My son Colt is not a monster. He is my oldest baby. He is quiet, thoughtful, caring, funny, and extremely intelligent. Please pray for him and the rest of our family, as I am praying for all of you every moment of every day,” she wrote.

Errr ... yeah, he is a monster. And you couldn't be there for him because you put your drugs ahead of his welfare.