Survivor: Triple-H (Spoilers)

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by dunkem

Hey, Ben may have found it legit and hell, yeah, he was the only one looking. I'm just saying that with so many idols in play all the time, it gets to be a idol power strategy vs. a "social game" when there are two idols out there, extra vote power, wonder twin put em together potential idol, etc. Imagine if all those idols were still in players' hands?

Yeah, it makes good tv for blindsides and vote funkiness, but I don't think Survivor made it this long by ramping up the super power frequency like they did this season.

That's what I hated last season when the one player went home because she was the only one that didn't have an immunity.

[CrimsonFox]

lol are you serious? There are actually people that think that was fixed? idols are really easy to find tho. Look for the pink thing in the sea of brown.

i forgot about the thing last year. that was great.

my favorite tho when malcolm gave all his idols to the big boys to send philip here. That was awesome.

[General Mike]

Fun season of Survivor. I don't think any of these people will be remembered long time, but I did enjoy it overall.

I would love too see a season with no hidden immunity idols. Don't tell the contestants that there aren't any, just show the players going crazy trying to find them.

[Draft Dodger]

I thought this season was a blast. I would have been fine with Ben, Chrissy, Devan or Doc Mike winning. Didn't love any of them, didn't hate any of them. But the last few episodes were very exciting to watch.

[Racer]

Thought the post merge was fun.

However, I hope they get rid of the twist at the final four after next season.

[LloydLungs]

Oof. If that was the fantastic finish Probst was promising, I'm disappointed, but a lot of people seemed to like it, so I guess I'm the weird one. To me, it just seemed like Ben won entirely on the strength of twists/advantages. Never before has the winner essentially been voted out three consecutive times, and that's before he botched the last challenge and got yet another reprieve in the form of Chrissy's "advantage." So I guess good for Ben even though he was consistently completely unable to avoid being voted out? But he had the best story, which was at the heart of the vote-outs and the jury's ultimate verdict. I hate that the best story seems to be emerging as the most important factor for a Survivor winner.

I thought Chrissy was remarkably un-self aware, smug, and kind of a pill at times, but I would've voted for her in a heartbeat. Easily played the best game of the final three. Dominated strategically and in challenges.

EDIT: I realize Ben was not technically voted out on the Ashley boot, but he 100% would've been without revealing and playing the idol pre-vote.

[Maple Leafs]

While I enjoyed watching Ben find idols that were buried three inches underground right next to where he was standing, and I really liked the fire-making twist that the players weren't told about and was never mentioned until the winner of the final immunity was known, I did think it was a little much when the producers were standing behind Devin with a bucket of water to dump on his fire if it got too high.

Holy crap, what a terrible finish. We all know reality TV is always going to be at least a little rigged, but you don't need to hit us over the head with it. I was half expecting Jeff to breathlessly announce a final "twist" where the jury could only vote for players whose name started with a B.

[Bisbo]

I think the producers came up with the "twist" to try to keep Ben in the game. Probst seemed pretty defensive when he said in the live show that it wasn't a one-off, and would be back next year. This was the first time in the whole series I thought the ending was manipulated.

[larrymcg421]

I highly doubt producers are risking the lawsuits that would entail if they manipulated it for one single contestant.

I hate the twist because it goes against what Survivor is supposed to be about and because it is designed to help players like Ben, but in no way do I think they rigged it for him.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I hate the twist because it goes against what Survivor is supposed to be about and because it is designed to help players like Ben, but in no way do I think they rigged it for him.

Very much agree. I don't think it was designed specifically for Ben, just the Bens of the world.

It feels like Survivor crossed a line this season that it has been getting dangerously close to for awhile.

[CrimsonFox]

You are complaining about the stupidiuty of a stupid game that's always been a stupid game akin to Calvinball?

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

Very much agree. I don't think it was designed specifically for Ben, just the Bens of the world.

It feels like Survivor crossed a line this season that it has been getting dangerously close to for awhile.

you may as well say they wanted russell to win...or even richard

you mean all i have to do is convince 3 people to vote with me the whole game and i autowin? easy!

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

You are complaining about the stupidiuty of a stupid game that's always been a stupid game akin to Calvinball?

It's just a matter of what makes good TV and leaves the viewer feeling like there is some reason why they're watching everything that they're watching. When you have 8 hidden idols in play as I believe there were this season, and you have the winner being repeatedly voted out only to keep producing said idols, you're kind of crossing the line to the show just being Find The Thing In The Woods, which effectively invalidates all the other footage they're showing you.

I'm still watching but I'm hoping they figure out they can have an interesting show without hidden idols completely dominating the landscape.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

It's just a matter of what makes good TV and leaves the viewer feeling like there is some reason why they're watching everything that they're watching. When you have 8 hidden idols in play as I believe there were this season, and you have the winner being repeatedly voted out only to keep producing said idols, you're kind of crossing the line to the show just being Find The Thing In The Woods, which effectively invalidates all the other footage they're showing you.

I'm still watching but I'm hoping they figure out they can have an interesting show without hidden idols completely dominating the landscape.

my point is that stuff was always there. or at least has been for a long long time and they always add twists to the game. THing was early on no one really went all the way to get all the extras...or they were too hard. So they tweak and try again. They now make it easier to find idols but they make it harder to get only because they will be in view of others...like at camp or at challenges (love those)

They always add twists to the game to mix things up. Their goal is to FORCE the breakup and realignment of alliances. THey have been trying to do that since season 2 so that every season isn't the same big alliance that stampedes towards the end because that's dull.

So yes it's about TV I agree there. It's about not being dull for TV. We'll never have a fresh "no idols or twists" in a season ever again. Get used to that.

[EagleFan]

They should try one tribe from day one. Then for the challenges randomly select teams and the losing team goes to tribal. This way the players need to forge different alliances because they will never know what the makeup of the next tribal will be.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

So yes it's about TV I agree there. It's about not being dull for TV. We'll never have a fresh "no idols or twists" in a season ever again. Get used to that.

I like the idols and twists, and no desire for a twist-free season, but I wouldn't mind a twist-free tribal council once in awhile. Just saying, everything in moderation. Trust the concept to be entertaining on its own merits (because it is), then sprinkle in some spice. Ice cream is delicious until you eat it all day.

We've had consecutive seasons where 5 of the final 6 had some kind of advantage resulting in the sixth player just leaving by default, and now a winner that won almost entirely because he's good at finding stuff buried in leaves. Eh.

[Mota]

Maybe stop pointing an arrow at the idol so that any idiot can find it in 2 hours.

I liked the ones where there was risk involved, you had to find it during a competition, or do something that could easily expose you.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

We've had consecutive seasons where 5 of the final 6 had some kind of advantage resulting in the sixth player just leaving by default

What? That's not at all what happened at the final 6 this season.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

What? That's not at all what happened at the final 6 this season.

Sorry -- that was poorly written. I meant consecutive years where we just had advantages/idols just overwhelming the game. In S34 it was Cirie going home without receiving a vote simply because she lacked an advantage. In S35 it was Ben riding advantages to a victory from Final 7 all the way to the end.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

I like the idols and twists, and no desire for a twist-free season, but I wouldn't mind a twist-free tribal council once in awhile. Just saying, everything in moderation. Trust the concept to be entertaining on its own merits (because it is), then sprinkle in some spice. Ice cream is delicious until you eat it all day.

We've had consecutive seasons where 5 of the final 6 had some kind of advantage resulting in the sixth player just leaving by default, and now a winner that won almost entirely because he's good at finding stuff buried in leaves. Eh.

Here's something I've been thinking though. There HAVE been seasons and episodes where there WERE idols and twists out there and the people just did not find them. Even the SUPERIDOL thing was bust. And if it's one thing Mark Burnett hates is when his ideas don't get used. I think those seasons were the basis for later seasons tweaking how easy it was to get idols. Remember way back when they had to go on a long complicated treasure hunt finding 3-4 clues even having to swim or walk long distances? NOne of those were ever found. So putting them at camp or challenges was the direction to go.

Russell H then did something to change the show. He realized the obvious. Look for the tree or rock that looks different and voila....obvious place is obvious and he found all the idols withoput clues. Since then, that's been the blueprint. But yeah you're right that the symbols are much more obvious now. THey probably need to now tweak it back more and probably will.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Russell H then did something to change the show. He realized the obvious. Look for the tree or rock that looks different and voila....obvious place is obvious and he found all the idols withoput clues. Since then, that's been the blueprint. But yeah you're right that the symbols are much more obvious now. THey probably need to now tweak it back more and probably will.

I remember when Russell first went on his run, Probst talked a lot about "Russell-proofing" the idols going forward. Which I guess they did for a short while, and later on did things like hiding them in challenges (which was a great idea and created one of the all-time great moments, Kelley Wentworth in the premiere of Second Chances). But it seems like they've pretty much reverted to just plopping them down in the woods somewhere. I think you're right that Burnett wants his ideas used, and they're just flooding the game with idols and making them easy to find to make sure that happens.

Dr. Mike from this season had an interesting comment -- he said that he doesn't really have a problem with the fire-making combined with all the idols, but he thinks if they're going to have them, they should expire at F6 instead of F5, to force everyone to survive just one vote of pure Survivor. That doesn't seem to be asking too much. But with the new fire-making twist, they're clearly trying to devise a way that the Bens of the world (and David Wrights, and Rob Cesterninos, and Kathys, and Kelley Wentworths, etc) can win regularly. I feel like it's meddling too much and, going forward, will not work as well as they think. The players will find ways around it. It worked this season but no one knew about it.

And even when it does work, I feel like it cheapens the win. While they do lots of tinkering, the game has a certain essence that shouldn't be messed with and I think is just now starting to get messed with.

[CraigSca]

I watch this show every year and I'm incredulous at everyone's ability to recall cast members names from years ago. I have no idea what any of you are talking about

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

I watch this show every year and I'm incredulous at everyone's ability to recall cast members names from years ago. I have no idea what any of you are talking about

I'm not proud of it.