Why do people believe guns are needed?

[Marc Vaughan]

Hi, I don't want to start a thread arguing about banning them or restricting them but I am interested in why people believe they 'need' to have guns and why they personally own them (I'm intrigued as its an emotive topic as is shown by the 'people with guns doing good' thread - being a foreigner its somewhat alien to me and I'd like to understand why some people are so passionate about it).

PS - If you own one for armed resistance against a tyrannical government which might one day appear that should be 'other' ..

[lungs]

I have a .22 rifle to put down sick cows with no hope of recovery.

Otherwise I don't own any other guns.

[tarcone]

I think more then one option should be available. Not sure if you can do that.

I voted protection. But I could have voted Hunting.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I think more then one option should be available. Not sure if you can do that.

I voted protection. But I could have voted Hunting.

I don't think I can change it now its been posted unfortunately ...

[CrescentMoonie]

I don't compete as a marksman, but I do like going to the range. I've also worked jobs that required a gun in the past and hunted in the past.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Hi, I don't want to start a thread arguing about banning them or restricting them but...

Then this should've been a poll about what types of apples people prefer.

[Mo.Raider]

I don't ever wade into these things for obvious reasons, but the question seems legitimately like someone who is really wanting to understand.

I can only speak for myself and probably for most rural folks. One of the biggest reasons is personal home defense. Rural counties usually have understaffed and very thinly spread sheriff departments. Where as cities and most towns have police departments that are there within minutes; rural areas could be upwards of 30-45 minute response time. While crime used to be low in these areas there has been like anywhere else an uptick in home invasions, burglaries, etc.

Obviously this is just one reason. However, I think it is often an overlooked reason. Most rural people also see guns as a tool. It isn't as if people are running around like Yo Sammity Sam. I personally see more of a need than in the past. The very rural area I grew up in used to be a place where no one locked their doors or cars. Times have changed.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Mo.Raider

I don't ever wade into these things for obvious reasons, but the question seems legitimately like someone who is really wanting to understand.

I can only speak for myself and probably for most rural folks. One of the biggest reasons is personal home defense. Rural counties usually have understaffed and very thinly spread sheriff departments. Where as cities and most towns have police departments that are there within minutes; rural areas could be upwards of 30-45 minute response time. While crime used to be low in these areas there has been like anywhere else an uptick in home invasions, burglaries, etc.

Obviously this is just one reason. However, I think it is often an overlooked reason. Most rural people also see guns as a tool. It isn't as if people are running around like Yo Sammity Sam. I personally see more of a need than in the past. The very rural area I grew up in used to be a place where no one locked their doors or cars. Times have changed.

I've heard this a lot as well from people who live outside the KC area. There's more targeted crime out there knowing that help is at least a half hour away.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Mo.Raider

Yo Sammity Sam.

Yo Sammity Sam

[dawgfan]

I don't have a personal need for a gun, and don't own any. I have enjoyed target shooting with .22 caliber rifles and clay pigeon skeet shooting with a shotgun in the past, but not so much that I'd mind never having that opportunity again.

[CU Tiger]

Well I could check most of your options

1- Personal Protection. In your utopia there would be no guns, in the real world bad guys have them. I even the odds. I'd argue with the amount of training and practice I have that I actually tilt the odds in my favor. To me this comes down to personal responsibility. I accept and maintain responsibility for my self, my family and my property at all times.
2- As mentioned above rural home security. There have been numerous home invasions in my area in the past...18 months or so... Nearest police departments is 25 miles away. 1 county officer covers about a 40 square mile territory out here
3- Hunting. I hunt and enjoy it. And my family eats what we kill. To me this is a fundamental part of personal responsibility. We also have a small garden. We enjoy growing crops. We have a family rule that one dish at each meal must be our own procured. Either meat or fish we hunted or caught or a veggie we grew.
4- Personal and Pet/Livestock protection from wildlife. We have cows, dogs and goats (plus assorted house pets) we fight a constant battle with coyotes. I lost a calf the week of Christmas to a pack of coyotes and they have stalked my daughter and her kid (goat) recently. I kill on average 2 coyotes a month on my property. We literally do not walk around our farm without at least a pistol and if we are on the tractor or side-by-side there is a rifle or shotgun at all times.
5 - I thoroughly enjoy shooting. It is not uncommon for us to spend a Sunday afternoon at the skeet range shooting skeet or at the rifle range shooting guns. Never played a round of golf in my life, but I imagine its similar.
6- I'm not sure a tyrannical US government is a concern..but I am prepared to defend our family from a mob or horde of would be invaders in what ever doomsday scenario you dream up. I don't walk around in fear of this scenario mind you. But when we built our house it is on the highest point of our land, and that was jointly chosen because it looks pretty, it pretty much flood proof, and slightly because its a fantastic defensive position. I can see a clear 1/2 mile in any direction if ever needed.
7- This one is probably going to be odd to you. But I LIKE guns.I enjoy their idiosyncrasies. I enjoy the mechanical differences in them..a gas powered semi-automatic shotgun is vastly different than a recoil actuated automatic shotgun. single action vs double action pistols. I dont like movies. Ive watched less than 20 movies beginning to end in my entire 40 years on this planet. I own vastly more than that many firearms. I dont understand comic books or pokemon. But I like to load my own ammunition. Its a down right near spiritual thing for me. The ability to load my own ammo, and fire it from a gun I built with my own hands and use those things to kill an animal that will feed my own family. It brings me a sense of inner peace and joy that I honestly cant explain. It makes me feel...useful(*?) and self sufficient. I have never purchased a single phone app or paid to play a phone game. But I own guns and automobiles. I like mechanical things, shocking for an engineer I know.

I think a lot of people are guilty of thinking their lifestyle is how all Americans live. I'm not. I've lived in a downtown high rise condo. I've lived in a suburban vinyl village neighborhood. And I've lived on my farm. I try to respect everyone's rights to live how they see fit. That seems to be a dieing concept. But as I've hit on a few times I am HUGE on self-sufficiency. I coudlnt imagine not owning a pickup truck, why because I haul stuff at least every week in it. My sister and BIL bought their twins power wheels for Christmas and came and borrowed my truck to go pick them up. I was pleased to let them have it, but I couldn't imagine living like that depending on others. I carry a pocket knife with me every day of my life. Its as much a part of me as my underwear. In fact the NC game Monday I had to walk nearly a mile back to the car and put it in there because I forgot it and tried to walk in with it. It isnt a weapon its a tool. Same deal there. Daily I use a knife for something, I dont have to look for it or borrow it, its in my pocket.

Sorry for the ramble..just my thoughts.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm an "other" ... cause it's a multiple reasons thing.

Some of the ones you mentioned, and then some.

[Drake]

I'm an "other" as well. I own some .22's for target shoot on our 60 acres.

I have a .223 for foxes and coyotes who menace our chickens.

I've also got a 12-gauge shotgun that I've used to put down dogs (for biting kids) and injured-beyond-recovery deer.

I'm not a hunter. I actually like the process of disassembling and cleaning my guns more than shooting them most of the time.

For home defense, I've got a mother-in-law.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Drake

I'm an "other" as well. I own some .22's for target shoot on our 60 acres.

I have a .223 for foxes and coyotes who menace our chickens.

I've also got a 12-gauge shotgun that I've used to put down dogs (for biting kids) and injured-beyond-recovery deer.

I'm not a hunter. I actually like the process of disassembling and cleaning my guns more than shooting them most of the time.

For home defense, I've got a mother-in-law.

I didn't know people like you existed!!

[Drake]

Heh. My wife lets me go down into the basement, light up my pipe (with the door closed), fire up some hair metal, and clean my guns without interruption for hours.

I can't get 5 minutes alone in the bathroom without somebody knocking on the door, but gun cleaning is like magical man time. (I think it's because her dad was a Marine and was very vocal about guns being clean and well-oiled at all times.)

I'd actually like to step up my collection to a bigger caliber, but given that I'm mostly just shooting at paper, I can't justify the increased cost per round...at least not when I'm trying to talk her into letting me pick up one of the new Henry lever action shotguns for my birthday.

[Abe Sargent]

I grew up in Central Appalachia which is the most impoverished area of the lower 48 states. West Virginia had both one of the highest rates of gun ownership and lowest of violent crime. Everybody owned and used guns. While I would echo some of the other rural statements made, like the county police being a half hour away, the major concern here was food. Almost no one made enough money to buy meat and good food for their family. But heading out for deer season, was the best way to do so. A family of four could live off the meat of a single dear for 4-6 months based on the freezer and how large the deer was (and how damaged it was, I've seen some shotguns that ruined some of the meat.). People would literally grab their gun and head out to shoot dinner and come back with a rabbit or a trio of squirrels. Catching your own food was essential to having a healthy diet, and the same was true of fish, growing food like tomatoes or potatoes, gathering berries and wild apples, and more.

Hunting is a vital part of getting food for your kids.

[Mo.Raider]

Toddzilla -"Yosemite Sam" I knew I should have googled that reference for spelling. I must have been thinking of his urban twin.

[Mo.Raider]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I grew up in Central Appalachia which is the most impoverished area of the lower 48 states. West Virginia had both one of the highest rates of gun ownership and lowest of violent crime. Everybody owned and used guns. While I would echo some of the other rural statements made, like the county police being a half hour away, the major concern here was food. Almost no one made enough money to buy meat and good food for their family. But heading out for deer season, was the best way to do so. A family of four could live off the meat of a single dear for 4-6 months based on the freezer and how large the deer was (and how damaged it was, I've seen some shotguns that ruined some of the meat.). People would literally grab their gun and head out to shoot dinner and come back with a rabbit or a trio of squirrels. Catching your own food was essential to having a healthy diet, and the same was true of fish, growing food like tomatoes or potatoes, gathering berries and wild apples, and more.

Hunting is a vital part of getting food for your kids.

I hear you Abe. You described my Ozarks childhood. We also milked a cow, raised our own meat, grew our own crops and churned our own butter. It was the 1940's in the 80's. We were self sufficient before self sufficient was cool.

[timmae]

Protection. I live in one of the most populated areas in the country (north side of Chicago) and police are probably 5 minutes away but 15 minutes to actually get here.

[Edward64]

Selected "other" as there are multiple reasons that apply.

I have multiple rifles and pistols. I do have them for protection, sport (don't compete but do go shooting with a group), and haven't been hunting but would like to.

Went to college in the south and college buddies would invite me to go shooting with them for half a day at the local, deserted gravel pit/river bluff. We shot at cans, bottle, skeet, snakes etc. Easy way to bond and enjoy weekends with friends.

I think earlier in my life, it was for fun/hobby. As I've aged and now have a family, its probably more for a "just-in-case" protection.

BTW, I am not a card carrying NRA member. I do believe its too easy to get weapons and am good with some additional "reasonable" controls (devil in the details). Just don't go trying to eliminate my ability to own weapons as a responsible citizen.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Yo Sammity Sam

Yo Samma Samma!?

[BYU 14]

I have a Taurus Judge, never leaves the house (outside of practicing at the range) and strictly for home protection.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Mo.Raider

Toddzilla -"Yosemite Sam" I knew I should have googled that reference for spelling. I must have been thinking of his urban twin.

There's a pilot waiting to be made!

[stevew]

My daughter once pronounced it Yo-see-might. We still make fun of her on occasion.

[Peregrine]

I put myself in as an other - I have a handgun and rifle, use them for casually shooting at local ranges. I don't really think of them as being for protection, since I live in a really safe area, but they could work for that also. It's weird but as someone who works in the IT area and my hobbies mostly high tech and digital I find their mechanical nature pretty satisfying.

[Dutch]

Job required it back in the day so I have Baretta M9 (92FS). A shotgun (el cheapo, run of the mill Mossberg) for home defense. But really, that's not totally reliable because I have it so secured that if somebody busted through the front door I wouldn't be able to get to it in time. I keep all my stuff locked away because of my daughter.

Eventually I'd like to get a rifle, but that would be to join in hunting parties that I don't take part in because I don't have a rifle. I'd love to go Hog Hunting (here in Florida where they are over populated) or Deer Hunting (once I get a deep freezer and knew how to keep as much of the meat as I could).

If I lived in the country, I would have my shotgun more accessible. Because even though country folks don't normally freak out as much as city folks do, the emergency service response would be too slow. In the city, I just take my chances.

To me, in modern America, the one-size-fits-all, doesn't work.

Urban dwelling vs rural have much different needs and expectations. But at the same time, in the city, you are much more accessible to the criminal and there are a ton of them. I would prefer to allow the good upstanding folks of urban America keep weapons for protection, because, they need it. Cops are too few, frisks are way down, drugs are way up...for the 9-5 guy or gal in Chicago, he/she needs something other than a baseball bat.

If we could clamp down on crime (which we can't for PC reasons) then we can't really do much else but allow our citizens the ability to at least feel somewhat protected on their own.

In the rural world, guns are more of a necessity than a philosophical decision "just to keep guns" as our suburbanites tend to do. So again, the one-size-fits-all won't work.

For the collectors. We glorify the fuck out of weaponry. People are buying all kinds of cool shit because of what they see on TV (who's actors are all very anti-gun publicly), in movies (who's actors are all very anti-gun publicly), in advertising (lots of cool companies advertising their wares on FB, Twitter, etc.), and in video games (where we have every kid over the age of 11 knowing more about weaponry than the average military member). It's pretty scary but we kinda do it to ourselves.

[Marc Vaughan]

Just wanted to say 'thanks' to everyone who posted - was interesting and enlightening

PS - I am kinda sad that so many people in rural communities feel the need to have guns for ownership for protection, growing up I lived in a REALLY rural area in England and our response times for police calls or ambulance were very high (could be as bad as 20-30 minutes) and no one I knew ever felt 'scared' enough to need a weapon of any sort ... the only time I recall friends being concerned with such things was a time when we were living in a City in squats and similar housing situations (then being England it was mainly knives and on one memorable occasion a sword they armed themselves with).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Just wanted to say 'thanks' to everyone who posted - was interesting and enlightening

PS - I am kinda sad that so many people in rural communities feel the need to have guns for ownership for protection, growing up I lived in a REALLY rural area in England and our response times for police calls or ambulance were very high (could be as bad as 20-30 minutes) and no one I knew ever felt 'scared' enough to need a weapon of any sort ... the only time I recall friends being concerned with such things was a time when we were living in a City in squats and similar housing situations (then being England it was mainly knives and on one memorable occasion a sword they armed themselves with).

Times have changed in a lot of rural areas, ones that aren't so rural any more.

Take where I grew up. Back in the 60s/70s, to some extent even the 80s, being 60-65 miles north of Atlanta was pretty rural.

Late 80s or so, a new interestate highway was built. Trip time to Atlanta was cut roughly 50%, as you went on a road with few/no stoplights, more lanes, etc etc.

What's that saying, about how nature abhors a vacuum.? Fast forward to today, where over the past decade there have been rashes of home invasions, something previously seen only on TV there. To regular armed robberies of convenience stores, something that used to happen maybe once a decade or so (burglaries after hours yes, armed robberies at all times of day no). To carjackings, serial rapists, pretty much your basic major metropolitan 6pm news stuff.

Every case I can think of has involved perps that were from as much as 90 minutes away (most recent armed robbers caught on their 3rd or 4th hit were from south of Atlanta). I still keep up fairly well (when the local paper is only once a week, it's not that tough), I can't remember the last local perp of a serious violent crime aside from the occasional domestic homicide or bar brawl.

Rural ain't so rural anymore :/

And what was once a strong gun culture largely for hunting reasons (and tradition) is now an even stronger gun culture for personal protection reasons.

White Southern households have guns at about a 47% rate according to Pew Research. I dare say it's somewhere around 70% in my old hometown.

[miked]

I think your numbers are wrong. Having been out to Gwinnett County and the likes, the crime is not from the city black folk driving up the highway as you suggest, but mostly from the local meth and drug trade. Outside Atlanta, I believe the biggest rise in violent crime is not due to highways bring the downtown criminals, but mostly the huge increase in drugs.

Of course, I have a friend in Peachtree City whose house was broken in to just like you describe, a van full of criminals from Atlanta looking to score in wealthy PTC, but the cops told the it was actually quite rare and most of the break-ins were from the more local poor folk (think Newnan and the like).

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Yo Sammity Sam

This thread was worth it just for this. No offense, Mo Raider.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miked

I think your numbers are wrong. Having been out to Gwinnett County and the likes, the crime is not from the city black folk driving up the highway as you suggest, but mostly from the local meth and drug trade. Outside Atlanta, I believe the biggest rise in violent crime is not due to highways bring the downtown criminals, but mostly the huge increase in drugs.

Of course, I have a friend in Peachtree City whose house was broken in to just like you describe, a van full of criminals from Atlanta looking to score in wealthy PTC, but the cops told the it was actually quite rare and most of the break-ins were from the more local poor folk (think Newnan and the like).

My tale was purely anecdotal from Pickens County, it was not meant to be representative of anywhere else, merely the story of one particular place. The drug crime is also a thing there but it's been largely break-ins/burglaries, only one instance I can recall where they were violent with their victims. The locals are annoyed by them, they don't particularly fear them.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Just wanted to say 'thanks' to everyone who posted - was interesting and enlightening

PS - I am kinda sad that so many people in rural communities feel the need to have guns for ownership for protection, growing up I lived in a REALLY rural area in England and our response times for police calls or ambulance were very high (could be as bad as 20-30 minutes) and no one I knew ever felt 'scared' enough to need a weapon of any sort ... the only time I recall friends being concerned with such things was a time when we were living in a City in squats and similar housing situations (then being England it was mainly knives and on one memorable occasion a sword they armed themselves with).

I live in a rural area, leave my doors unlocked at night and don't sleep with a shotgun under my pillow (or gun in the house at all), so it's not all bad out there. Yeah, we have our share of heroin related break ins around here but those are mostly by people that case places out and wait for nobody to be home.

Since I can see my house from where I work, I don't worry too much. When my house was under construction we did have somebody come through and steal a generator. Other than that, I sleep well at night living in the sticks without any guns.

[Edward64]

Back in college, room mate invited me back to his house. His mother and him lived out in the boonies and they had a loaded .22 rifle in (seemingly) every room.

One of my best memories was he took me out on the roof to lie down and looked at the stars, it was like-wow to see it without city lights.

[Mo.Raider]

Originally Posted by Butter

This thread was worth it just for this. No offense, Mo Raider.

Shut it mister!

Marc-I think "scared" would be incorrect. Most people in my area would describe it as prepared. Just like you have a tornado, flood or any other emergency plan. And again, to most people I have ever known guns are just a useful tool.

For me I have always had guns. I got one for my birthday when I was 12. No one is afraid of them, and you are taught to use them and respect them like anything else. People in rural areas have always had them. They were necessary in the pioneer days and were handed down for generations. Again, I think it is a veiwpoint. I have never thought of a gun=violence, no more than a kitchen knife=violence.

I also have kids now, and that changes everything. Some of these home invasions now days are for "kicks and giggles"....and that isn't going to happen on my watch. If I am inside I am more than likely not going for the gun anyway for fear of collateral damage. I'm swinging for the fences with my trusty aluminum baseball bat. However, if someone is outside my door with a firearm, I want to bring the appropriate tool for the job. Bringing your fists to a gun party is just rude.