Another missing flight... EgyptAir

[Groundhog]

EgyptAir Flight MS804 from Paris to Cairo 'disappears from radar' - BBC News

Paris to Cairo, fell off the radar 10 miles into Egyptian airspace. 59 passengers, 10 crew.

[bhlloy]

That's not good... given the two countries involved the obvious thought is terrorism of some kind

[Alf]

Aye. No more credible information at that point. The only sure thing is that the plane has no more fuel left and is either crashed (most probable) or has landed somewhere (highly doubtful).

[Julio Riddols]

I'd guess its probably one or both of the pilots again, otherwise they wouldn't have dropped radio contact. Would they have any way to know if the plane blew up in mid air without warning?

[Young Drachma]

"No hypothesis ruled out" in cause of #EgyptAir plane disappearance - Hollande

Updates: https://t.co/GhpGsEwUal pic.twitter.com/gQOR4ko3yN

— BBC Breaking News (@BBCBreaking) May 19, 2016

[PilotMan]

First thought is a bomb. Reports say that it made two abrupt turns and lost altitude. Bombs that don't totally destroy planes cause flight control issues. It certainly plausible that it was still flyable for a time, while not controllable.

The other thought is a failed hijacking attempt. But that seems less likely. Just looking at how fast the altitude loss and subsequent disappearance occurred after the first anomaly. Unless the entire objective of an attempted hijacking is to crash it, I just don't see this as a likely option. Even if it is, these things would generally take longer to develop than the speed that this occurred.

I'll edit to add that there is history of an EgyptAir pilot crashing the plane to commit suicide. I can't really rule out the pilot angle either.

[Kodos]

That's so crazy. If you're going to commit suicide, why take others with you?

[jeff061]

I'm sure it's a control thing. They are killing themselves, they aren't necessarily thinking logically. So yeah, it is crazy.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

Why not.

Because killing others is generally a poor thing to do.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Because killing others is generally a poor thing to do.

A rational thought dealing with irrational behavior.

[Ned Doolittle]

While there's nothing that can be done about bombs outside of preventing them from getting on the plane, in the cases of hijacking I would think the solution to that is to design planes with this feature: at the first sign of trouble - be it terrorists attempting to hijack or a rogue pilot (which sounds like a cool movie) attempting suicide the othe pilot needs to merely press a button which will disable manual control and lock in autopilot which can't be overridden. A killswitch for manual control.

[jeff061]

In my uneducated opinion we are at or very near the point where all flights can be 100% automated by default(sorry PilotMan).

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by jeff061

In my uneducated opinion we are at or very near the point where all flights can be 100% automated by default(sorry PilotMan).

I'd say that within the 20-30 years you'll see it or something like it. The first step would be single pilot operations and the airline induced pilot shortage might accelerate this path. My career should end before you see it widespread, which is part of the reason I don't encourage my kids to follow.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Ned Doolittle

While there's nothing that can be done about bombs outside of preventing them from getting on the plane, in the cases of hijacking I would think the solution to that is to design planes with this feature: at the first sign of trouble - be it terrorists attempting to hijack or a rogue pilot (which sounds like a cool movie) attempting suicide the othe pilot needs to merely press a button which will disable manual control and lock in autopilot which can't be overridden. A killswitch for manual control.

Nice idea, but it does nothing to stop a terrorist/mentally deranged/suicidal person from ripping a hole in the plane, windows, or some other crazy action that still accomplishes the end goal of dying.

Unfortunately, the real issue is human nature/behavior and that is very difficult to plan for under normal circumstances. Add in the crazy religious or suicidal angle and there is not a lot you can do to prevent stuff like this. You can only hope to contain it, unfortunately.

[Ned Doolittle]

Fair enough. What would you say to this: being "locked" in to your seat for the duration of the trip. Your arms and legs are free but your body is locked in with a harness. To use the bathroom you need to press a button and you would be escorted by a security guard. You would only need maybe one or two security guards per flight because now you are controlling who gets up and when. Outlandish idea, I know, but sometimes the solution to dealing with crazy is to also think crazy or as outside the box as you can. I would be all for it. I hardly ever get up from my seat and maybe only need to use the bathroom once.

[Ned Doolittle]

Not for nothing this would also prevent those bastards who love to get up from their seat before the plane stops moving so that they can grab their stuff before everyone else and exit before you. Fucking assholes.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Nice idea, but it does nothing to stop a terrorist/mentally deranged/suicidal person from ripping a hole in the plane, windows, or some other crazy action that still accomplishes the end goal of dying.

Unfortunately, the real issue is human nature/behavior and that is very difficult to plan for under normal circumstances. Add in the crazy religious or suicidal angle and there is not a lot you can do to prevent stuff like this. You can only hope to contain it, unfortunately.

How often does this happen without a bomb or some restricted item? So yes, we need to keep the bombs off the plane.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by jeff061

How often does this happen without a bomb or some restricted item? So yes, we need to keep the bombs off the plane.

Absolutely, but the bombs aren't what is killing people. It is the crazy people who are making the bombs and killing people.

There has to be some way to better screen these flights to keep the bastards off the plane in the first place. Same goes with the pilots who are suicidal (not as common I realize but still does exist).

I will also add in response to your question: the planes on 911 were all done this way. Bombs weren't part of the plan that day, only taking control of the plane and crashing it. So yes, it does happen (and perhaps what happened with the Egyptian Air flight is similar - who knows?).

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Ned Doolittle

Fair enough. What would you say to this: being "locked" in to your seat for the duration of the trip. Your arms and legs are free but your body is locked in with a harness. To use the bathroom you need to press a button and you would be escorted by a security guard. You would only need maybe one or two security guards per flight because now you are controlling who gets up and when. Outlandish idea, I know, but sometimes the solution to dealing with crazy is to also think crazy or as outside the box as you can. I would be all for it. I hardly ever get up from my seat and maybe only need to use the bathroom once.

Not sure how I feel about that. I am probably ok with it as I rarely leave my seat either but I can't shake the feeling of being held prisoner. *shrug*

Originally Posted by Ned Doolittle

Not for nothing this would also prevent those bastards who love to get up from their seat before the plane stops moving so that they can grab their stuff before everyone else and exit before you. Fucking assholes.

Yeah, especially the ones at the back of the plane who grab their bags and rush up the aisle, fucking up the general order of things for the rest of the passengers.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Ned Doolittle

Fair enough. What would you say to this: being "locked" in to your seat for the duration of the trip. Your arms and legs are free but your body is locked in with a harness. To use the bathroom you need to press a button and you would be escorted by a security guard. You would only need maybe one or two security guards per flight because now you are controlling who gets up and when. Outlandish idea, I know, but sometimes the solution to dealing with crazy is to also think crazy or as outside the box as you can. I would be all for it. I hardly ever get up from my seat and maybe only need to use the bathroom once.

On long flights you'd be significantly increasing the risk for blood clots while only fractionally diminishing the risk of terrorism.

And of course you'd cripple the whole industry when nobody wanted to fly because they would be treated like convicts.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

And of course you'd cripple the whole industry when nobody wanted to fly because they would be treated like convicts.

And that's even more exacerbated at the current cost of air travel in the first place.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Ned Doolittle

Fair enough. What would you say to this: being "locked" in to your seat for the duration of the trip. Your arms and legs are free but your body is locked in with a harness. To use the bathroom you need to press a button and you would be escorted by a security guard. You would only need maybe one or two security guards per flight because now you are controlling who gets up and when. Outlandish idea, I know, but sometimes the solution to dealing with crazy is to also think crazy or as outside the box as you can. I would be all for it. I hardly ever get up from my seat and maybe only need to use the bathroom once.

They tried this in Con Air and it still went to shit.

[stevew]

<----still has never flown

[Dutch]

Maybe a better futuristic option is to put everybody to sleep from boarding to departure...oh, and thanks Bin Laden.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Logan

They tried this in Con Air and it still went to shit.

Nice Cyrus the Virus reference!

[bhlloy]

Or we recognize that even with a slight increase in terrorist incidents, flying in a plane is still far safer than getting into your car to drive to work in the morning...

[stevew]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Or we recognize that even with a slight increase in terrorist incidents, flying in a plane is still far safer than getting into your car to drive to work in the morning...

Yeah. Seems better than packaging everyone in like an amusement park ride.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Or we recognize that even with a slight increase in terrorist incidents, flying in a plane is still far safer than getting into your car to drive to work in the morning...

I agree with your general statement but I would argue we have seen more than just a slight increase in terrorist incidents; especially in relation to what we saw pre-911.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Or we recognize that even with a slight increase in terrorist incidents, flying in a plane is still far safer than getting into your car to drive to work in the morning...

Forget about car accidents. Think about how many more times you're in close proximity with a couple hundred people (if not thousands for people who live in big cities), and you get there with virtually no security checks, than the number of times you're on a plane. If a person wants to hurt others, they'll find a way to do it a lot easier down here than up in the sky.

Although granted, it's been a while since I've tried breaking through a plane's window with my elbow or foot or Kindle at 30,000 feet.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I agree with your general statement but I would argue we have seen more than just a slight increase in terrorist incidents; especially in relation to what we saw pre-911.

What would you base your argument on?

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by Mike Lowe

Yeah, I mean it's sort of like when people say there are more natural disasters happening and it's the end of the world...we just have more cameras and more satellites to broadcast is all.

Right, just look at the airline industry. In the 70's it seemed like there was a hijacking every other day.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Or we recognize that even with a slight increase in terrorist incidents, flying in a plane is still far safer than getting into your car to drive to work in the morning...

Yeah in addition....count me in on any list of people who are sick of the enhanced security which seems much easier to come up with a more efficient and effective solution.

Of course bombs, guns, and anything that can pierce a plane needs to be scanned for. But can't there be larger scanners which can be installed strategically throughout the airports, so you don't need to have actual lines? In addition to human monitoring, one would think there could be software that could scan the video from the scanners as well to trigger alerts for the human monitor to look into.

I have no knowledge of the state of technology, nor the actual costs currently, but man it sure seems like a little investment would save a whole lot more money quicker than we might think, and make flying more attractive and ultimately cheaper longer term.

[AlexB]

Can't remember where I saw it, but there was a joke video claiming the Israelis had invented a foolproof security measure - everybody has to go through a bomb proof cubicle with their luggage, and if explosives are detected they are automatically detonated with the person inside.

TBH seemed like a good idea to me!

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Right, just look at the airline industry. In the 70's it seemed like there was a hijacking every other day.

Maybe the efforts like the Patriot Act are working.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Maybe the efforts like the Patriot Act are working.

hijackings were the "cool" thing for nuts and disillusioned people to do. now its shoot up malls and schools. in 20 or 30 years it will be a new thing

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

hijackings were the "cool" thing for nuts and disillusioned people to do. now its shoot up malls and schools. in 20 or 30 years it will be a new thing

Hopefully it's something more like Pokemon or Hearthstone.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

But can't there be larger scanners which can be installed strategically throughout the airports, so you don't need to have actual lines?

Oh man, I can hear the "but my priiiiiiiiiivacy" wailing from all the way over here.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Oh man, I can hear the "but my priiiiiiiiiivacy" wailing from all the way over here.

And the response is....

"then take a bus."

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Jon

And the response is....

"then take a bus."

No thanks.

Killing of Tim McLean - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The killing of Tim McLean occurred on the evening of July 30, 2008. McLean, a 22-year-old Canadian man, was stabbed, beheaded and cannibalized while riding a Greyhound Canada bus about 30 km west of Portage la Prairie, Manitoba traveling the Trans Canada Highway.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

No thanks.

That's the craziest story I may have ever read. Every aspect of it.

If that were a movie, I'd bitched about it being unrealistic.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Jon

And the response is....

"then take a bus."

Predictably, I agree.

But that just provokes more criiiiiiiiiiiies.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

hijackings were the "cool" thing for nuts and disillusioned people to do. now its shoot up malls and schools. in 20 or 30 years it will be a new thing

I think it's just going for soft targets. If bulk up security at malls and schools, they'll find new targets to attack.

[korme]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

That's the craziest story I may have ever read. Every aspect of it.

If that were a movie, I'd bitched about it being unrealistic.

Don't google the killers name, I just made that mistake, crime scene photos pop up, it's horrific.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

No thanks.

So this guy is currently getting unsupervised passes!?!?!! Remind me not to go anywhere near Winnipeg.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

So this guy is currently getting unsupervised passes!?!?!! Remind me not to go anywhere near Winnipeg.

And he was allowed to legally change his name. But he's on his meds, it'll be fine!

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

So this guy is currently getting unsupervised passes!?!?!! Remind me not to go anywhere near Winnipeg.

This seems like a bad idea Canada.