NFL Week 16

[Radii]

I know it'll just be for a week to have depth, but damn, I haven't heard that name in a long time.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Radii

Dallas Cowboys reach deal with Jon Kitna - ESPN Dallas

Last I heard he was teaching/coaching high school. He was a great guy, an average QB, and an above average backup QB here in Cincy.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by Radii

Dallas Cowboys reach deal with Jon Kitna - ESPN Dallas

Thus, resetting the Hall of Fame eligibility.

[Danny]

Who is who in the playoffs?

Player A QB Rating: 87.4
Player B QB Rating: 88.4

Player A Completion %: 62.3%
Player B Completion %: 63.4%

Player A YPA: 6.71
Player B YPA: 7.46

Player A is Tom Brady
Player B is Peyton Manning

Now, I am not trying to say Manning has been more successful than Brady in the playoffs, but statistically they are very similar.

[Danny]

Now, the most amazing playoff stat is Joe Montana. In 4 superbowls he is 11/0 for a 127 QB rating, 68% completion % and 9.36 YPA

[Radii]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Last I heard he was teaching/coaching high school. He was a great guy, an average QB, and an above average backup QB here in Cincy.

Jon Kitna to donate game check to high school | ProFootballTalk

good stuff

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Danny

Now, the most amazing playoff stat is Joe Montana. In 4 superbowls he is 11/0 for a 127 QB rating, 68% completion % and 9.36 YPA

Yes, that's why I have long kept him as #1 all-time, despite what Brady and Manning have and are doing.

[Buccaneer]

It's amazing what Peyton and the Broncos have done this season

BEST OFFENSES OF ALL TIME
TEAM	POINTS	YARDS	SCORES(RUN/PASS/FG)	1ST DNS	TURNOVERS	TM RECORD	RANK(RUN/PASS)
'13 DEN	538*	6,859	16R/51P*/23FG	407	26	12-3	14R/1P
'07 NE	532	6,580	17R/50P/21FG	393	15*	16-0*	13R/1P
'01 STL	468	6,690	20R/37P/23FG	340	44	14-2	5R/1P
'05 IND	419	5,799	19R/31P/23FG	363	19	14-2	16R/3P
'98 MIN	511	6,264	17R/41P/35FG*	335	20	15-1	11R/1P
'98 DEN	475	6,092	26R*/32P/23FG	347	20	14-2	16R/1P

[miami_fan]

Aaron Rodgers is starting on Sunday.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Aaron Rodgers is starting on Sunday.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Arles

for the Packers

for my failed fantasy team

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Danny

Who is who in the playoffs?

Player A QB Rating: 87.4
Player B QB Rating: 88.4

Player A Completion %: 62.3%
Player B Completion %: 63.4%

Player A YPA: 6.71
Player B YPA: 7.46

Player A is Tom Brady
Player B is Peyton Manning

Now, I am not trying to say Manning has been more successful than Brady in the playoffs, but statistically they are very similar.

I'm guessing this is a shot at my stats, but if it is, you'll only get me nodding my head saying "Yeah, I've been saying for years Manning gets too much crap for supposed playoff failures"

For most of his career, Manning has had a poor defense behind him. For Brady's three Super Bowl titles, the Patriots finished 2nd, 1st and 6th in points against. In his first three playoff years, here is the 9 game points against total against the Patriots D during their Super Bowl years:



13, 17, 17, 14, 14, 29, 3, 27, 21, 20 ,12, 17 (L), 10, 20, 21 (L)

That's 15 games. No 30 point games against, 9 games under 20 points, 13 games 21 points or under.

Lets look at his non Super Bowl losses in points given up: 27, 38, 33, 28, 28

Hmmmm, wow. You mean, you can't expect any QB, even a hall of famer to score over 30 in playoff games and expect to win? Seriously? I mean, I would never have thunk it.

In 20 career playoff games, Manning's teams have generated 23 points per contest. Brady comes in at 24.75 in 24 career playoff games. Brady has been better, (not just points for, but better at protecting the ball and obviously the comebacks count for something as well) It just isn't by some overwhelming thing that people make it out to be. Manning has been just fine in the playoffs and had you swapped the two QB's out, you probably wouldn't have seen appreciably different results.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I'm guessing this is a shot at my stats, but if it is, you'll only get me nodding my head saying "Yeah, I've been saying for years Manning gets too much crap for supposed playoff failures"

For most of his career, Manning has had a poor defense behind him. For Brady's three Super Bowl titles, the Patriots finished 2nd, 1st and 6th in points against. In his first three playoff years, here is the 9 game points against total against the Patriots D during their Super Bowl years:



13, 17, 17, 14, 14, 29, 3, 27, 21, 20 ,12, 17 (L), 10, 20, 21 (L)

That's 15 games. No 30 point games against, 9 games under 20 points, 13 games 21 points or under.

Lets look at his non Super Bowl losses in points given up: 27, 38, 33, 28, 28

Hmmmm, wow. You mean, you can't expect any QB, even a hall of famer to score over 30 in playoff games and expect to win? Seriously? I mean, I would never have thunk it.

In 20 career playoff games, Manning's teams have generated 23 points per contest. Brady comes in at 24.75 in 24 career playoff games. Brady has been better, (not just points for, but better at protecting the ball and obviously the comebacks count for something as well) It just isn't by some overwhelming thing that people make it out to be. Manning has been just fine in the playoffs and had you swapped the two QB's out, you probably wouldn't have seen appreciably different results.

That wasn't a shot at your stats at all, I was actually trying to show that Manning has been just as good if not better than Brady statistically in the playoffs. I actually chose a few statistics I thought did give a pretty good picture of a pocket passing qb

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Arles

Sweet, should be a fun game now.

[BishopMVP]

Some cool accuracy charts for Tom Brady - FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Film Room: Tom Brady

Nothing that doesn't follow the general consensus here, but nice to see it in visual form.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by TroyF

For most of his career, Manning has had a poor defense behind him. For Brady's three Super Bowl titles, the Patriots finished 2nd, 1st and 6th in points against...

While we are throwing stats out there, lets explore the real reason why Manning has the reputation that he has. In the seven year stretch between '99 - '05, here are Manning's numbers in the six games (missed the playoffs in '01) that the Colts were eliminated in:

122 for 232 (52.5% completion rate), 1323 yard passing (220.5 per game), 3 touchdowns, 7 interceptions.

Now here are the numbers in the three games they won in that stretch:
71 for 89 (79.7% completion rate), 1139 passing yards (379.6 per game, 12 touchdowns, 1 interception.

There you go. While it's only a nine game total sample size, I think it's pretty cut and dry and also hard to blame the defense for those losses, or anything else for that matter. For the record they gave up the following point totals in those six losses... 19, 23, 41 (but they scored 0 so it doesn't really matter how many they gave up), 24, 20 and 21. Peyton Manning was awful in those games and was a large part of the reason why they lost. To his credit, his play has leveled itself out quite a bit since then and he has not been nearly as bad in losing efforts. I understand why he had the reputation at one time but he is much less deserved of it these days.

It's cute though when people say stuff such as "Manning had a poor defense behind him" and "Manning has been just as good if not better than Brady statistically in the playoffs." Lets not forgot that spending money on defense means that you have guys such as Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney as your top two receivers instead of Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne. I also think that probably has an impact on your passing numbers (imagine Brady's completion percentage without those Caldwell drops!).

For the record though, Manning has had a top 8 defense behind him six seasons (1st, 2nd, 4th, 7th, 7th and 8th) and failed to win a Super Bowl any of those years. In fact, he is one and done in five of those seasons. He's also been one and done eight times total. That probably also factors highly into his reputation.

Brady by comparison has been much more steady. He's not really flashy and does not put up gaudy numbers in victory nor does he put up many absolute stinkers in defeat. In fact, it's tough to find very many defining moments or games for him in victory or defeat. When they lose, there are other key players/moments that are easily pinpointed as the turning point, be it the Reche Caldwell and Wes Welker drops or the Tyree helmet catch.

So yeah, I guess statistically speaking, they are somewhat comparable (apart from winning percentage and Super Bowls) but how they each got there is vastly different.


Edit: Just for fun, combining those numbers from above, in nine games you get 193 for 321 (60.1% completion), 2462 yards (273.5 per game), 15 touchdowns, 8 interceptions. Not too shabby so even though they were 3-6 in that stretch, you can't blame Manning, right? Right?

[Thomkal]

Just in case you somehow missed it. Romo had back surgery this morning and is now officially out for the season

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Just in case you somehow missed it. Romo had back surgery this morning and is now officially out for the season

I guess he is no longer day to day

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I guess he is no longer day to day

His coach on the other hand ...

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

His coach on the other hand ...

I'm not sure the move to Orton is that big of a deal. They'll miss Romo but Orton has been with them two years and knows the playbook and personnel and has had some success as an NFL QB. Plus, the Eagles gave up 48 points to an offensively inept Vikings team.

If the Cowboys defense can step it up a couple notches, they'll beat the Eagles even with Orton at QB.

[markprior22]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I'm not sure the move to Orton is that big of a deal. They'll miss Romo but Orton has been with them two years and knows the playbook and personnel and has had some success as an NFL QB. Plus, the Eagles gave up 48 points to an offensively inept Vikings team.

If the Cowboys defense can step it up a couple notches, they'll beat the Eagles even with Orton at QB.

This. I think Orton will do just fine. He'll get rid of the ball quicker than Romo so he won't have to improvise as much. They have the talent on offense to put up the points...it will be the Dallas defense that wins or loses this game.

[BillJasper]

Heck, they had two games where they've scored 36 and 48 points respectively and lost. In their last meeting with the Eagles the held Nick Foles to 11/29 for 80 yards and McCoy to 18 carries for 55 yards.

I don't think this game is a slam dunk for the Eagles and if they come in thinking it is... they'll get blown out of the Jerry Dome.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

If the Cowboys defense can step it up a couple notches, they'll beat the Eagles even with Orton at QB.

Did Monte Kiffin get fired since last weekend? Because, if not, he is still not good at stopping a Chip Kelly offense.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Heck, they had two games where they've scored 36 and 48 points respectively and lost. In their last meeting with the Eagles the held Nick Foles to 11/29 for 80 yards and McCoy to 18 carries for 55 yards.

I don't think this game is a slam dunk for the Eagles and if they come in thinking it is... they'll get blown out of the Jerry Dome.

True. Okay, Kiffin's D did stop the Eagles here. I guess we'll have to see how it goes on Sunday.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

True. Okay, Kiffin's D did stop the Eagles here. I guess we'll have to see how it goes on Sunday.

I don't have a horse in the race, I just think it's premature to write-off the Cowboys because of Romo's injury.

[NobodyHere]

I would love to see Orton/Kitna lead the Cowboys to the Superbowl just for the Front Office hilarity that would ensue.