Second and Ten X

[APC]

Has anybody played the new version of Second and Ten football?

Second and Ten Version X

I've been playing Action PC Football while waiting for the new version of FOF. I've never tried Second and Ten, but it looks intriguing. Curious if anybody has any thoughts on the game or could provide a mini review.

[SlyBelle1]

Originally Posted by APC

Has anybody played the new version of Second and Ten football?

Second and Ten Version X

I've been playing Action PC Football while waiting for the new version of FOF. I've never tried Second and Ten, but it looks intriguing. Curious if anybody has any thoughts on the game or could provide a mini review.

I play both APC and SAT (although I just started with the latest version, except for a few days with v9) and I think they are both must haves for any person who enjoys text-based football season replay games. Each one plays differently so personally that is what makes it worth to own both. Not sure if you were aware, but SAT has a demo you can download and try for yourself, which is the ultimate way to determine if you would like it before purchasing. You have 3 days to fully play it and then it turns into a limited mode of the game, but still enough to play around and see if you enjoy.

But since you specifically asked about SAT, here are some of the highlights for me. Remember, I only played version 9 for a few days before version 10 came out, so I am far from an expert on what used to be there. I can only speak to what is there now.

- The look and feel of the game is really good (see sample screens below). There is a bunch of user mods that can be used such as helmets, uniforms, logos, photos, etc. that really bring the environment alive. The presentation is really well done.

- Comparing v9 and v10 is like night and day to me, even though the main features are likely the same. I found it hard to navigate inside the game when using v9, but with the overhaul in v10, everything is very easy to get to and makes it in enjoyable experience.

- In the latest version, both pro and college games are included. In past versions, you had to buy separate...excellent.

- With the game, you get all the available pro seasons free and a ton of the college seasons free, except for the 2012 college season. That costs $12. This is a ton of value.

- There are a lot of game options that seems to allow you to model any era using rules and such.

- At the conclusion of a pro season, the game will auto create the playoffs for you based on rules you can customize with wildcards and such.

- You can create custom seasons using a bunch of formats, such as tournaments, playoffs, etc.

- You can do custom drafts and such.

- The game has a really nice boxscore that is created that has a lot of stats.

- There is a game simulcast feature that allows you to see other games that are in progress and their key events like scores, highlights, etc...can even switch to watch/play the other games.

- The typical stats are included. Has features for tracking league leaders and also major game highlights. For example, you can see what the highest scores were for the season.

- You can edit teams and players...I don't really do this myself, but seems the tools are there.

- The game has very good output options where most reports can be exported to HTML.

- The actual game play is much different than APC, more based on dice rolls/charts. You don't choose all the options that are available in APC, but that doesn't mean it is not as good. Its just different and this is one of the main reasons I enjoy both games since they handle gameplay differently. In SAT on offense, you choose the players you want on the field and then you can just choose basic plays like inside/outside/draw run and different lengths of a pass. On defense, you choose things like whether you are playing zone/tight coverage and how you want to double cover people (more options are available, just not listing them all). I think it works well and the results of plays seem very realistic. In the latest version, they added player formations being displayed on the field, although they do not animate.

- At the end of the day, SAT provides you with a realistic representation of football (just like APC), which makes it enjoyable and fun to play.

- Like APC, strong developer support...the developers/designers are always on the boards to answer questions.

Again, I will reiterate that I simply enjoy both games for different reasons and they both will be must buys every season!

[APC]

Wow. Thanks for the info!

Can you do custom drafts with players from different eras?

[SlyBelle1]

Originally Posted by APC

Wow. Thanks for the info!

Can you do custom drafts with players from different eras?

Yes, I believe you can...just not an area I have focused on since not a real desire for me. To ensure it can do what you want, make sure to check out the demo.

[Wolfpack]

Well, that's something to put on the wishlist. I'd thought about getting SAT previously, but held off because of the pro/college split and the knowledge that they were introducing this new version which finally pulled them together.

I'd bought and played APC back around 2000 and it was fine, but having to purchase individual seasons was a limiting factor in really continuing with it. SAT's big advantage is just the sheer number of teams available for free.

[Julio Riddols]

Alex Smith, haha.

[Mota]

I've been playing Strat-o-Matic Pro and College Football this season. I'm enjoying the game, especially having full visibility to the game engine since it's based on the card game and you see the rolls / cards. The bad thing is that it's based on a card game so it's difficult to fully simulate 22 players on the field at the same time accurately. SOM is also expensive as hell, $23.00 a season and I haven't seen very many sales so I have been playing a slower season mode playing several games a week and make the seasons last longer.

[MizzouRah]

Looks great.. I always dream that one day 2nd and 10 will finally have a career mode.

[Izulde]

This actually looks really intriguing and I'm not normally a season replay guy.

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Looks great.. I always dream that one day 2nd and 10 will finally have a career mode.

Definitely. I would love to have a replay/career mode game. I can do it with board games, but the seasons are very time consuming.

[MizzouRah]

If only FOF had an interface like that..

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

If only FOF had an interface like that..

Seriously? Those screenshots look terrible.

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

If only FOF had an interface like that..

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Seriously? Those screenshots look terrible.

[SlyBelle1]

All I can recommend is to at least try the demo out...might be worth your time. Having a career mode would be great, although I don't think this game will head into that direction anytime soon.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Seriously? Those screenshots look terrible.

I like the first one with all the games listed like that and the one where it shows the field of play and the players.

Either way FOF needs a facelift.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

Definitely. I would love to have a replay/career mode game. I can do it with board games, but the seasons are very time consuming.

It does have the ability to replicate leagues from one year to the next keeping rosters the same but updating statistics. So it is somewhat of a career league possibility.

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I like the first one with all the games listed like that and the one where it shows the field of play and the players.

Either way FOF needs a facelift.

I agree that FOF could be made to look prettier, but I'd want it to remain just as functional as it currently is. Terrible might be too strong, but I don't see a lot of what could be considered a massive improvement on FOF besides the fact that there are player pictures incorporated into them. But it's just about the most one can expect as the best user interfaces are built by graphic designers and programmers together. FM is constantly evolving theirs and always looking to improve it. Of course, they have many more people working on their games, which will always be the key difference.

[Galaril]

[quote=MizzouRah;2862228]I like the first one with all the games listed like that and the one where it shows the field of play and the players.

Either way FOF needs a facelift. [/QUOTE

I have played both and SAT UI / presentation is light years ahead of FOF which is like 1998 all over again.

[APC]

I've been playing SAT for about 2 hours and its presentation already blows FOF's presentation out of the water.

[SlyBelle1]

Originally Posted by APC

I've been playing SAT for about 2 hours and its presentation already blows FOF's presentation out of the water.

Besides the graphics, how you liking it?

[JimboJ]

Originally Posted by rowech

It does have the ability to replicate leagues from one year to the next keeping rosters the same but updating statistics. So it is somewhat of a career league possibility.

Interesting. Can you elaborate on that a little? Do the players stats follow a typical career arc? Can the game generate new fictional players?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by rowech

It does have the ability to replicate leagues from one year to the next keeping rosters the same but updating statistics. So it is somewhat of a career league possibility.

Originally Posted by JimboJ

Interesting. Can you elaborate on that a little? Do the players stats follow a typical career arc? Can the game generate new fictional players?

Also interested in how you do this

[rowech]

Originally Posted by JimboJ

Interesting. Can you elaborate on that a little? Do the players stats follow a typical career arc? Can the game generate new fictional players?

For some reason my v9 isn't working. Says I need a sizer.dll whatever that is. In any case, the feature is made for draft leagues but can be used however you want. I think it was called "Rollover League" (don't hold me to that) but it keeps the rosters in tact from a previous season and essentially changes all the ratings to the current season's ratings. There is then an Encyclopedia feature that will keep career stats so you can build an NFL Encyclopedia essentially.

The biggest thing is there is no real unpredictability to it though.

[Carman Bulldog]

Question on the "career mode"...

So, can I play for instance 2009 and then rollover to 2010 with the new rosters, including draft picks and new player ratings, while maintaining the career stats built up from precious seasons?

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Question on the "career mode"...

So, can I play for instance 2009 and then rollover to 2010 with the new rosters, including draft picks and new player ratings, while maintaining the career stats built up from precious seasons?

You can essentially play an entire franchise's history which I believe it what you're looking at there.

[SlyBelle1]

Just a quick note the encyclopedia module is not available for version 10 yet but will be included at some point for free, versus past version you had to buy separately. Expected availability is before the end of the real football season.

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by rowech

You can essentially play an entire franchise's history which I believe it what you're looking at there.

But I don't think it let's you redo a draft from a particular year, does it? Say, you're playing the 1997 Colts, do you get to redo the 1998 draft before playing the 1998 season?

[rowech]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

But I don't think it let's you redo a draft from a particular year, does it? Say, you're playing the 1997 Colts, do you get to redo the 1998 draft before playing the 1998 season?

Don't hold me to this but yes, I'm pretty sure it does. You do the Rollover League option at the end of your current season. That will place every player that was on a roster at the end of the season on that same roster for the next season. Anybody not on a roster at that point goes into the free agent pool and you can conduct a draft.

I'm pretty sure this is doable but please don't hold me to that. There are SAT and draft leagues so I have to believe it's able to be done.

[APC]

Originally Posted by SlyBelle1

Besides the graphics, how you liking it?

So far, so good. There are a lot of options and settings to figure out, so I'm still navigating that maze a bit. But I'm pretty sure I'll be buying after the 3-day eval.

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by rowech

Don't hold me to this but yes, I'm pretty sure it does. You do the Rollover League option at the end of your current season. That will place every player that was on a roster at the end of the season on that same roster for the next season. Anybody not on a roster at that point goes into the free agent pool and you can conduct a draft.

I'm pretty sure this is doable but please don't hold me to that. There are SAT and draft leagues so I have to believe it's able to be done.

Okay, that's a game changer if true. If you figure it out for sure (or anyone for that matter) then I'm in. I've always wanted a season replay that gives me that ability.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

I also think that would be amazing. Curious to see how the AI handles the draft and free agent logic since it doesn't seem to be a main feature.

[Mota]

Sounds pretty cool to me. If the statistics are relatively accurate it might be a good purchase.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Well, I downloaded the game. You can test it out for free for 3 days. Clunky doesn't even begin to describe it. After I completed the season, I had to return to the main screen to manually begin "career mode" . I couldn't figure out how to get to the main screen. There was no button for it. Out of frustration, I click the red x in the upper right hand corner of the game screen to quit. The red x is what gets me back to the main screen.

To begin career mode,I had to do a manual roll over process.

According to the game manual, this is what I have to do:

Three leagues are needed. For consistency, these are named as follows:
Base Season
This is the completed season containing the teams and players to be updated.
New Season
This is the format for the new season – It may be a copy of the Base Season or a different season.
Player Season
This is the season containing the players who will be used to update the Base Season.

I tried following this and I am pretty sure I erased the players and stats of the league I wanted to build off of, which is no big deal since I simmed through the season.

So I am going to take a break from this now

It looks like it has potential. Maybe someone else can try out how to manually do career mode, and tell me what I did wrong.

[SlyBelle1]

Going back a screen in the game is usually done by hitting the "x" to close the current screen or hitting the close button if the screen has one. It is pretty consistent like that throughout so you become use to it. But at first it might be a little confusing.

As for the season rollovers, I really don't play that mode so can't be much of a help there. I typically only do the single season replays. You may want to pop over to the official forums and ask any questions.

Delphi Forums Login*-*Welcome! Please log in.

[MizzouRah]

Yeah, I wouldn't mind starting in say, 1971 and then going on from there, aka "roll over".

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

I think the problem was I created a custom league with the 85 bears, 84 niners etc and tried to roll it over. Perhaps that is too complicated. I will try just to do a regular league.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Things I can't figure out when rolling over a season:

1) How to do a draft with just the rookie players coming out of college. Whenever I do a draft, the entire league gets emptied into the free agent pool.

2) Accessing the player and team stats from the previous year when starting a new season.

I think there is a good game buried in here somewhere and I hope somebody else will test this out because me and my two iq points aint getting it done.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by LastWhiteSoxFanStanding

Things I can't figure out when rolling over a season:

1) How to do a draft with just the rookie players coming out of college. Whenever I do a draft, the entire league gets emptied into the free agent pool.

2) Accessing the player and team stats from the previous year when starting a new season.

I think there is a good game buried in here somewhere and I hope somebody else will test this out because me and my two iq points aint getting it done.

1.-See if this helps. From the SAT forums-

"Say you play 1980 as is. Now you want the same players on the 1980 rosters to be on the 1981 rosters. This is what "rolling" a season is all about (used generally for continuous ownership draft leagues).

It's under Pro Draft tools (rolling). You need a base season (teams players are on in 1980), a new season (a league with same teams etc, a copy of say 1981 but re-named whatever you wanted, let's say 1981 My Way) and a player season (where you are getting the ratings). The player season would be the actual 1981 season.

Roll away and 1981 My Way will ahve the players who were on the respective teams in 1980 but with 1981 ratings.

All new players to 1981 (not on a 1980 roster) go to a supplemental draft. Select the season for it ((1981 My Way) under Supplemental Draft), determine your draft order etc and draft away.

Works like a charm BUT easiest if you use all the NFL teams. If you just use some then rolling can involve a little more work (but still do-able)."

2.-You'll need to enter season stats to an encyclopedia, which is a few months away, that will keep track of different seasons/player stats in one app. If you want to see past season stats until then you'll have to open up that season,as long as you haven't reset it.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Thanks for the help.

I will try it out. Wish things were a bit more automated.

Not sure if the encyclopedia function is worth the hassle even when it does come out.

ah well. Thanks again.

[jbergey22]

Im confused.

Do I need to buy version 10 and the upgrade to get everything or just V10 w the 2012 college season if I so choose?

[SlyBelle1]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Im confused.

Do I need to buy version 10 and the upgrade to get everything or just V10 w the 2012 college season if I so choose?

If your a brand new owner of the game, you can just buy version 10. If you want the 2012 college season, then you would need to buy that additionally.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by SlyBelle1

If your a brand new owner of the game, you can just buy version 10. If you want the 2012 college season, then you would need to buy that additionally.

Appreciate the help.

[APC]

I am really enjoying SAT so far. There are a lot of different options and settings to navigate through, but I'm close to understanding all of them.

As someone who enjoys doing fantasy draft leagues, the draft AI in SAT is great (much better than Action PC).

I have to play SAT a bit longer before I declare it better than APC, but so far it's damn close. (Really, though, both are great games.)

[SlyBelle1]

Originally Posted by APC

I am really enjoying SAT so far. There are a lot of different options and settings to navigate through, but I'm close to understanding all of them.

As someone who enjoys doing fantasy draft leagues, the draft AI in SAT is great (much better than Action PC).

I have to play SAT a bit longer before I declare it better than APC, but so far it's damn close. (Really, though, both are great games.)

That's me feeling too...both play different and both are great to own....I see both of them being on my system for a long time.

[APC]

I feel like you can really make a difference with playcalling and coaching decisions in APC. A good human coach can overcome an undermanned roster and win a game in APC.

In SAT, I feel like you don't quite have as much influence to improve your team through coaching decisions, but that's not necessarily a bad thing since SAT has very realistic results.