Jealousy

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

Of course...option 3 that I haven't seen anybody bring up...him & his wife could be swingers and simply trying to recruit you guys.

That was sort of what I was trying to imply with my initial question about how hot the guys wife is...

[judicial clerk]

I appreciate all of the comments and I have not read any opinions that are "wrong." I think there is just more than one way to skin this cat.

I'll try to answer your questions and let you know where I am at. Also to let you know I am still bothered by the incident and i have been thinking about it today. I also conferred with two of my buddies. Both said to talk to my wife first. One said to check the guy and the other said to let it go and just not associate with the guy anymore.

My best guess about the guy is that he is attracted to my wife and when he drinks his inhibitions come down and he acts on his impulses. For example, the comment that my wife looked smoking hot sounds like a compliment but thinking about the context I think this is just what came to his drunk mind. Also, since he did this in front of me he is either completely not self-aware or he is testing/ messing with me.

I am not interested in maintaining any ongoing friendship with these people. I would like the relationship to be cordial but I dont care if it is not. I am not looking to kick anybody's ass and I am confident he would not want to assault me.

I kind of regret not checking him at the time it happened. In the past I have called people out on the spot in public for doing things like making racist comments and for being rude toward food servers (I swear 99% of the time I hang out with nice people.). However, in those cases their was no jealousy involved. I think in this case the jealously in me made me think twice about calling him out and blowing things out of proportion. Also, when I write about confronting people I don't mean making a harsh pointed joke back or screaming and getting angry. What I have done in the past and what I would do with this guys is calmly but directly tell him what I observed, tell him that I dont like it, and tell him to stop. Not smiling or angry but soberly and stone faced. I wouldnt want their to be any confusion and I wouldnt want the message to be lost in semantics.

My wife and I have an egalitarian relationship where we make decisions together and we are both the boss. Originally, I waited to talk with my wife because I didnt want her to tell me not to confront him. However, now I think it is a good idea to talk with my wife before I take any action. My actions effect her and she deserves a say. Also, I want to know the extent of his bad behavior. Maybe there is something I dont know about.

I do still want to confront the husband, but I will make that decision with my wife. My guess is that if I dont confront him and we limit our contact with this couple, a future social situation will inevitable come up and this guy will act out of line again. when that happens I will confront him, so my argument would be why wait?

Anyway I will be talking with my wife tonight and I will give you an update as things transpire. Any and all comments are welcome.

[judicial clerk]

Also, regarding the swinger thing, it is a remote possibility. I suppose a more accurate statement would probably be that this guy would be willing to let me screw his wife if it ment he could screw my wife without getting killed. I am only interested in knowing my own lovely bride.

[Danny]

While I would talk to your wife about it, I also would not just let things go. When smaller behaviors happen and they go unchecked, these often develop into larger / riskier behaviors later. Really, I would have said something right away to him, drunk or not, and not in a joking or friendly way (for the meat comment, saying she looked hot while still somewhat inappropriate, but wasn't as far across the line).

[Danny]

I am little surprised your wife wasn't more offended though, my wife would not want to associate with someone who made a comment like that, although no one has ever said anything inappropriate to her in front of me, so I am just guessing from her reaction.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I always get a pretty good chuckle out of some of the responses to emotionally-charged posts such as this one. You get a pretty good feel for a person's general demeanor based on how they say they would handle the situation.

Not really. For example, I am actually one of the nicest, most easy going people you could meet, but in matters like this involving my wife, I will be more assertive and not so nice if needed.

[Karlifornia]

Have your wife call him and say "can you bring me some meat right now?"

Then when he shows up, you answer the door and say "whatcha got for us?beef? Venison? Duck?"

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Have your wife call him and say "can you bring me some meat right now?"

[tarcone]

I didnt read all the comments.

My wife was, what I consider, Being sexually harassed by a couple of our married male friends. They have sophomoric senses of humor. And made comments too her that I felt were inappropriate. My wife felt the same way as well. Our daughters all played basketball together. And this is is where it happened.
My wife wouldnt let me say anything to them. She isnt one to make waves. So I let it go. Well, now the stuff has ended. I did get into it a little with one of the guys at a game concerning another issue. But that was driven by his disrespect to my wife.
We have moved on. Our daughter doesnt play basketball anymore, so we dont have the contact with them like we did. My wife does hang with the guys wife I got into it with. I have a little contact with him.
it seems to have died down. We dont socialize anymore for the most part.
I have forgiven.

The guys wives are bigger then my wife. And not as good looking in my opinion. I think they were just being high school boys even though they are in their 40s.

I guess my point is to limit contact, or wait until another issue comes up and dig into him about it. Make him mad and he will ignore you.

[PilotMan]

Just read the OP, but having been in a similar situation before, the end result is that any current or future friendship you may have had with this couple dies, and that you will keep a healthy distance from them. You only manage the time that your kids are there. They will be cut out of family get togethers and dumped altogether as friends.

[PilotMan]

dola

I'll add that my wife is hot, and that she has been hit on and propositioned by no less that 3 other male friends that had been in our social circle, all married. I didn't confront any of them, she handles it well, and they disappear from our lives no matter what things we had been doing together prior. She hasn't gone to any of the other wives, it's just more trouble and drama than it's worth and we all move on, no worse the wear.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

it's just more trouble and drama than it's worth and we all move on, no worse the wear.

This is at the heart of what I was getting at -- well said.

Sometimes, it just isn't worth it to fight every battle...

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

, it's just more trouble and drama than it's worth and we all move on, no worse the wear.

Good advice, been in the same situation with acquaintances and folks we had met at events/parties, etc. Luckily I don't have close friends that would do this shit.

My wife is strong and has no problem checking anyone and she will do this. The understanding is she will handle anything inappropriate first and if things continue then I would ask the person to chill, which I have only had to do twice.

If you and the wife can talk about it and she validates your feelings I would say you are solid and move on like PM said. Some folks just lose that governor when they are drunk and knowing this now you can avoid that situation in the future.

[kcchief19]

Talking with the wife is a must. It may have made her feel uncomfortable, and she's surprised you didn't say or do something. Maybe she thought it was just a obnoxious drunk and laughed it off. Either way, she's the one you should be concerned about first, not the jerk.

I really don't see how a confrontation with the guy is a solution at this point. He's going to think you're over reacting, and if you tell him you don't want to hang around them anymore, chances are he's going to tell people you're an over reactionary jerk. Then to "defend your honor" you're going to have to tell this story. Is this a story you want to retell?

I'm often an over thinker myself and tend to give people more credit than they deserve for intelligence and thinking through their actions. In this case, I think it's nothing more than a drunk hound marking territory. You don't rationalize with this type to curb behavior -- you have to swat them in the nose. If you end up in a similar situation and he were to make a crude remark, make fun of him. "Oh, you want to bring some meat over to my wife? She wouldn't know how to cook with something that small."

[judicial clerk]

So I talked to my wife tonight. She told me that she did not competely hear and understand the "meat" comment when it was made but now she understands it after I explained it to her. She also did not realize that he brought up the dancing from the previous fundraiser. She said that they were not dirty dancing but that he was definitely dragging her out on the dance floor a bunch of times and that he was being a little bit gross and flirty.

She said that her take is that he is a little bit socially akward when sober and more of an idiot flirt when he is drunk. She said she has not seen him be inappropriate with any other women in our limited social contact but she said she would bet that he is this way with other women when he is drunk and we just havent seen it. She said that there are no additional incidents I was not aware of and that he has never come on to her in any kind of a private setting.

She said it is cute that I am jealous and she said that she doesn't care if we never socialize with this couple again. She asked me to not confront him about the incident. Her feeling is that we will still see these people in conjunction with school/ kid functions and through mutual friends and she does not want it to be a whole big thing that becomes uncomfortable for all of our friends and becomes some weird story everybody knows and also she does like this guys wife. She also said that she thinks I underestimate how traumatic/ disturbing it can be for normal people when I am confrontational and it is not worth it in this instance. She said that if for some reason this situation occurs again she will check him immediately.

I told my wife the only thing I disagree with her is that, while he may do this with other women when drunk, he does specifically have the hots for her. I told her that I will not confront this guy unless he brings it up and I will try to be nice. I told her I dont want us to socialize with them anymore beyond occasioal school/ kid related contact. I told her if for some reason I see this behavior from him again I will confront him about it in a direct way. I also told her that I love her. So I think this is where I am leaving it for now. Am I making any mistakes? Have I left anything unanswered? I still have not seen this guy since the incident.

[stevew]

People often use the guise of alcohol to hide awful behaviour. I just don't see the upside of many of these alcohol infused situations. You're perfectly correct in handling this situation as you did. I'd probably just cut off any further contact. If you feel like being a bit of a prick offer to take the guy to a 12 step meeting.

[Izulde]

The only thing I found a bit odd is that after she said not to confront him because it tends to be traumatic/disturbing for people in addition to the potential for this being a drama llama situation for the rest of the group, and if it happens again, she'd check him immediately, you said if you see him do it again, you'll confront him directly about it.

So essentially it's like you completely blew past that section of what she said.

For my money, I agree with her that if something happens, she should be the one to handle it. Socially awkward yet lusty dudes like this, another dude confronting them activates an aggro/defensive mode from the guy getting chuffed, from my experience. A woman putting them in their place usually yields the intended result.

[Drake]

I don't think this is about jealousy. It's about appropriate boundaries and protecting your own marriage.

Let's be frank here: when a douchebag like this makes sexual comments to another man's wife, he's trolling. He's letting her know that he's interested and sexually available. The fact that he's willing to do it in front of you and attempt to include you in it is gauging your reaction and how much of a threat you might be to him if he made a move.

In other words, he's attempting to assert dominance by making a claim on your wife to see if you have the balls to stand up to him. (I'm in no way saying that this is conscious. Guys like this are lucky if they operate on a conscious level 5% of the time on their very best days.)

Your wife wants to avoid conflict. That's fine. A great many women are uncomfortable with conflict. That's why you're the dude. Understanding and resolving conflict is one of your roles in the relationship -- as is protecting your wife from douchebags, from unpleasantness, and from feeling threatened. I get that you've got the whole egalitarian thing going on. That's good. My wife and I do that, too, but when an intruder comes onto our property in the middle of the night, we don't have discussions about which one of us is going to go get the shotgun, if you know what I mean.

I'm not saying you have to punch the guy in the face, but I think you do need to make it clear to him that you find his conduct to be inappropriate. As someone above suggested, you could start gently with the lighthearted shaming ploy, but if that doesn't work -- and by "work", I mean that it evokes a sincere apology from him -- then you should just flat out tell him that you and your wife do not appreciate the way he talks to and about her. It is disrespectful. He'll undoubtedly give you some variation on the "Lighten up, Francis" theme, because people hate being called out on their behavior.

The fact is that he's a grown man applying the coping skills of a 14 year old boy to male-female relationships in the adult world. It's time his social patterns began to line up with his biological age.

[judicial clerk]

Originally Posted by Izulde

The only thing I found a bit odd is that after she said not to confront him because it tends to be traumatic/disturbing for people in addition to the potential for this being a drama llama situation for the rest of the group, and if it happens again, she'd check him immediately, you said if you see him do it again, you'll confront him directly about it.

So essentially it's like you completely blew past that section of what she said.

For my money, I agree with her that if something happens, she should be the one to handle it. Socially awkward yet lusty dudes like this, another dude confronting them activates an aggro/defensive mode from the guy getting chuffed, from my experience. A woman putting them in their place usually yields the intended result.

I get what you are saying Izulde. What I ment and what I explained to my wife is that I am happy to follow her plan generally but I wanted her to understand that regardless of trying to avoid these people and her plan to check him if something like this happens again, if for some reason this happens again in front of me I will confront him and shut him down and if he broaches the topic with me of our night out I will let him know what I am thinking.

Also I agree that a guy like this is to some extent trolling and there is always at least a kernal of truth in these kind of actions/ comments despite what guys like this say when called out. But in the long run this guy is barking up the wrong tree and he has no shot with my wife. He is just a douchy drunk who I may or may not have to deal with in the future.

This is non-sequitor, but thinking abut the night this happened, I think another part of the reason I let this go and did not make more of a scene with this guy is because I was trying to have a nice night with my wife. My date with my wife did not end with my interactions with this couple, and while I did have to put up with this douchebag, confronting him would have killed the mood. Somebody mentioned above that one of the ways they avoid this is by being close and cozy with their spouse. My wife was being affectionate( but not gross or anything) and close to me throughout the night and she was enjoying being out with me. Obviously that didnt stop the guy but she sees it more as just a dumb drunk who was just a bump in the road.

Hell, maybe I should just drive by his house on my way to work and whip his ass really quick.

[britrock88]

You did the right thing by talking to your wife. Now you know that if anything should happen again, she or you will put a foot down; I hope that's a satisfying enough resolution.

[Arles]

JC, I think you handled it well. I agree with the idea that nothing needs to be done until it happens again now that she knows it bothers you and understands the reasoning. However, I think you should stand firm on the idea that if he does it again, you will do/say something.

Most women hate confrontation, but they need to understand that it can have its purpose and be very effective if used sparingly when needed. If this guy does it again, it's clear to me that he will keep doing it until you check him.

[Dreghorn2]

Originally Posted by Drake

I don't think this is about jealousy. It's about appropriate boundaries and protecting your own marriage.

Let's be frank here: when a douchebag like this makes sexual comments to another man's wife, he's trolling. He's letting her know that he's interested and sexually available. The fact that he's willing to do it in front of you and attempt to include you in it is gauging your reaction and how much of a threat you might be to him if he made a move.

In other words, he's attempting to assert dominance by making a claim on your wife to see if you have the balls to stand up to him. (I'm in no way saying that this is conscious. Guys like this are lucky if they operate on a conscious level 5% of the time on their very best days.)

Your wife wants to avoid conflict. That's fine. A great many women are uncomfortable with conflict. That's why you're the dude. Understanding and resolving conflict is one of your roles in the relationship -- as is protecting your wife from douchebags, from unpleasantness, and from feeling threatened. I get that you've got the whole egalitarian thing going on. That's good. My wife and I do that, too, but when an intruder comes onto our property in the middle of the night, we don't have discussions about which one of us is going to go get the shotgun, if you know what I mean.

I'm not saying you have to punch the guy in the face, but I think you do need to make it clear to him that you find his conduct to be inappropriate. As someone above suggested, you could start gently with the lighthearted shaming ploy, but if that doesn't work -- and by "work", I mean that it evokes a sincere apology from him -- then you should just flat out tell him that you and your wife do not appreciate the way he talks to and about her. It is disrespectful. He'll undoubtedly give you some variation on the "Lighten up, Francis" theme, because people hate being called out on their behavior.

The fact is that he's a grown man applying the coping skills of a 14 year old boy to male-female relationships in the adult world. It's time his social patterns began to line up with his biological age.

To keep it short after a long quote.. yep.

[finketr]

Originally Posted by judicial clerk

So I talked to my wife tonight. She told me that she did not competely hear and understand the "meat" comment when it was made but now she understands it after I explained it to her. She also did not realize that he brought up the dancing from the previous fundraiser. She said that they were not dirty dancing but that he was definitely dragging her out on the dance floor a bunch of times and that he was being a little bit gross and flirty.

I can so relate to this as being married to someone who is not a native English speaker. What's worse is she'd probably ask me what that meant and i'd have to explain it to her whilst trying not to find the idiot that'd say something like that.

[JediKooter]

You should have a horse take a shit on his front door step.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

You should have a horse take a shit on his front door step.

Or you could put a horse's head* on the pillow next to his bed and then *take* a shit on his front door step.







[*] I do not mean Sarah Jessica Parker's head. That would make baby Ferris cry, and I like Ferris.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Drake

Or you could put a horse's head* on the pillow next to his bed and then *take* a shit on his front door step.







[*] I do not mean Sarah Jessica Parker's head. That would make baby Ferris cry, and I like Ferris.

That puts a nice little Godfather twist to it. I like it.

I'm sure Sarah and baby Ferris feel much better about this plan now.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

You should have a horse take a shit on his front door step.

I think he should shit in his shoe, and then have the horse shit on his doorstep, then you light it on fire...

he runs into the house to get his shoe on to stamp out the fire, and he not only gets poop on his feet and inside his shoe, he gets it on the outside too....the guy will be scarred for life.

The guy will have to leave because he is ashamed for putting his foot in shit, not once but twice.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

I think he should shit in his shoe, and then have the horse shit on his doorstep, then you light it on fire...

he runs into the house to get his shoe on to stamp out the fire, and he not only gets poop on his feet and inside his shoe, he gets it on the outside too....the guy will be scarred for life.

The guy will have to leave because he is ashamed for putting his foot in shit, not once but twice.

Yes! I love it. And also leave a note that says, "I bet you want some meat now, don't you?".