Official 2009-2010 MLB Offseason Thread

[DaddyTorgo]

Pujols was a jerk? Really?

zoinks

[Logan]

Roid rage.

[Logan]

Talk about some misdirected anger:

Torii Hunter says black Latino players are 'impostors' - ESPN Los Angeles

"People see dark faces out there, and the perception is that they're African-American," Hunter said. "They're not us. They're impostors. Even people I know come up and say: 'Hey, what color is Vladimir Guerrero? Is he a black player?' I say, 'Come on, he's Dominican. He's not black.' ...

Really Torii? Some jackass out there thinks a guy named Guerrero is black. How the hell does that make Vlad an "imposter"?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Logan

Talk about some misdirected anger:

Torii Hunter says black Latino players are 'impostors' - ESPN Los Angeles



Really Torii? Some jackass out there thinks a guy named Guerrero is black. How the hell does that make Vlad an "imposter"?

Torii seems to be talking a little out of his ass here, but he's not without a point. There's a big difference between being "black" (American black) and black in general (but more specifically Latino). Just like actual Africans. Sure, they're black. But when you're talking about, for instance, the issue of African-Americans in baseball, you're not talking about Africans, even though they're black (BTW, probably there isn't a single African baseball player, but trying to use a non-Latino example that might spell it out more clearly).

I know Torii has been outspoken on the issue of the fall in African-American representation in baseball, and this probably comes from that, people thinking there might not be a problem because of all the "blacks" from Latino nations. He has been heavily involved in inner city academies and speaking out for more African-Americans in baseball.

[molson]

I didn't think the term "black" was exclusive to African-Americans. There's people of African decent, with dark skin, all over the Caribbean (and everywhere else) Many of them are decendents of African slaves.

Not sure why it's so important for Hunter to claim "black" for the USA blacks, but I'm not in a place to understand.

[Chief Rum]

BTW, Vlad and Torii are two of the more happy-go-lucky sorts of guys out there; this isn't Torii saying anything about Vlad specifically. They got along great here, by all reports. This is probably a situation where Torii coulda picked a better term or phrased it better.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by molson

I didn't think the term "black" was exclusive to African-Americans. There's people of African decent, with dark skin, all over the Caribbean (and everywhere else) Many of them are decendents of African slaves.

Not sure why it's so important for Hunter to claim "black" for the USA blacks, but I'm not in a place to understand.

I think he's being misunderstood. He's not saying those others aren't black-skinned. He's saying they're not black-- that there's a difference between the American black and blacks from other countries. And again, I think he's right. There's a specific cultural difference. I don't think he should necessarily be claiming "black" for African-Americans alone, but I think his intention is to note the cultural difference.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I think he's being misunderstood. He's not saying those others aren't black-skinned. He's saying they're not black-- that there's a difference between the American black and blacks from other countries. And again, I think he's right. There's a specific cultural difference. I don't think he should necessarily be claiming "black" for African-Americans alone, but I think his intention is to note the cultural difference.

Sure, but there's also a difference between Latino Dominicans and Black Dominicans. And the terms "black" and "African-American" can't properly be used interchangeably.

I guess though, I can translate what he's saying and see the point. People would be surprised how few African-Americans there are in MLB today (especially pitchers). So they're kind of struggling for their identity. But the misuse of the terms just clouds things further.

Edit: "Black" is such a stupid term, at least the way its used today. I hope it goes away at some point in my lifetime. I think it will.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Torii seems to be talking a little out of his ass here, but he's not without a point. There's a big difference between being "black" (American black) and black in general (but more specifically Latino). Just like actual Africans. Sure, they're black. But when you're talking about, for instance, the issue of African-Americans in baseball, you're not talking about Africans, even though they're black (BTW, probably there isn't a single African baseball player, but trying to use a non-Latino example that might spell it out more clearly).

I know Torii has been outspoken on the issue of the fall in African-American representation in baseball, and this probably comes from that, people thinking there might not be a problem because of all the "blacks" from Latino nations. He has been heavily involved in inner city academies and speaking out for more African-Americans in baseball.

All that being said...how does anyone misinterpreting Guerrero's race make Guerrero himself an imposter? Is he walking around with an "I'm black" sign on his chest?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Logan

All that being said...how does anyone misinterpreting Guerrero's race make Guerrero himself an imposter? Is he walking around with an "I'm black" sign on his chest?

You have never heard Torii speak have you? It's obviously an off the cuff quote. He's just talking. I can see the grin on his face while he's saying it (in my mind), because that's the way he is. He picked a "funny" word, more or less, which pretty much fits his personality (i.e. it's the kind of thing he would say, it's why he is one of the more sought after interviews, he'll take a boring, everyday question and give back an interesting response).

He's not saying Vlad is really an impostor. He's saying, from the perspective of those presuming Vlad being black means there are no issues with blacks in baseball, that that misleading perspective puts Vlad in abit of an "impostor" light. He's not saying Vlad hismelf is trying to be an impostor, but that Vlad "looks" like an impostor.

That makes a lot more sense in my head than when you write it out. I hope the message I intended got across.

[lungs]

Not happy. I should be heading to my hotel in Tempe right now and getting ready to hit up a Brewer game tomorrow. Instead I'm sitting at home because mother nature is being a whore.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Pujols was a jerk? Really?

zoinks

My wife got his autograph the first year he game up.

I know he's big time and all, but at least acknowledge the kids!!!

[sovereignstar]

Just purchased my Twins tickets!

[molson]

If Matt Stairs makes the Padres, he'll set an MLB positional player record for playing with his 12th team

Stairs is a swing away from record book - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

And speaking of tickets - I somehow got through the Red Sox ticket lottery and got tickets for Sox/Yanks in May. I'll just sell them though, because the money will be enough for tickets, airfare, and hotel to see three sox games over a weekend in some other city.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Nationals abruptly release Elijah Dukes

Outfielder Elijah Dukes abruptly released by Washington Nationals - ESPN

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by molson

If Matt Stairs makes the Padres, he'll set an MLB positional player record for playing with his 12th team

Stairs is a swing away from record book - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

And speaking of tickets - I somehow got through the Red Sox ticket lottery and got tickets for Sox/Yanks in May. I'll just sell them though, because the money will be enough for tickets, airfare, and hotel to see three sox games over a weekend in some other city.

wow - that's pretty awesome!

how many tickets did you get? how much do you want to sell them for?

shoot me a PM...

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by molson

And speaking of tickets - I somehow got through the Red Sox ticket lottery and got tickets for Sox/Yanks in May. I'll just sell them though, because the money will be enough for tickets, airfare, and hotel to see three sox games over a weekend in some other city.

Game On had 12 Sox-Yanks tickets up on the monster as the prize for 1st place in trivia last week.... we finished 3rd out of ~90 teams. And let's be honest... as awesome as those seats would be, I would definitely be selling them.

In terrible or fantastic news for the RS, top prospect Ryan Westmoreland underwent surgery to remove a cavernous malformation in his brain. Sounds they caught it early enough, the surgery was performed by the top surgeon in the world and now hopefully no infections set in. Alberto Contador had the same surgery 3 years before winning the Tour de France, and allegedly Flo-Jo died after a seizure in her sleep caused by one, so it sounds both necessary to do and possible to come back completely from if all goes well in the recovery. I know injuries are a part of the game, but I'd feel more comfortable if our players could tear a rotator cuff or an ACL once in a while instead of getting cancer, or brain tumors, or mono, or whatever Rocco Baldelli's deal was.

[samifan24]

Texas Rangers manager Ron Washington tested positive for cocaine during the '09 season.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by samifan24

Texas Rangers manager Ron Washington tested positive for cocaine during the '09 season.

Yeah, that is a strange story. Evidently he called the commissioner's office after the test, but before the results, to tell them he probably would fail the test.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by molson

If Matt Stairs makes the Padres, he'll set an MLB positional player record for playing with his 12th team

Stairs is a swing away from record book - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

They wouldn't even have to pay him in salary. I'm pretty sure the Phillies paid him in beer kegs towards the end.

I will miss Matt Stairs.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by samifan24

Texas Rangers manager Ron Washington tested positive for cocaine during the '09 season.

And while he promises to never ever ever do it again, groundskeepers will be stationed along the base paths guarding the white lines between innings just to be on the safe side.

[sovereignstar]

Where do the Rangers play opening day?

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

They wouldn't even have to pay him in salary. I'm pretty sure the Phillies paid him in beer kegs towards the end.

I will miss Matt Stairs.

Moonshot. I'm not sure if that home run ball has landed yet.

[RedKingGold]

That sound you hear is Jonathan Broxton crying softly in the corner.

[sovereignstar]

FORT MYERS, FLA. -- The Twins announced that they have signed Joe Mauer to an eight-year, $184 million contract, which will keep the catcher under contract through 2018.
The deal includes a full no-trade clause.

.

[sterlingice]

Wow. Nicely done, Twins

SI

[Logan]

Very happy for the MIN fans.

[dawgfan]

Mariners have decided they will stick with the experiment to switch Jose Lopez to 3B and Chone Figgins to 2B. The hope is that what they lose in defense at 3B they more than make up for at 2B.

I'll say this - after watching Beltre at 3B the last 5 years, it's going to be painful to see Lopez manning the hot corner...

[k0ruptr]

Joe Nathan out for the season. ouch thats not a nice loss to a seemingly thin pen. Rauch might be closing, and being a White Sox fan I say bring him on!

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Mariners have decided they will stick with the experiment to switch Jose Lopez to 3B and Chone Figgins to 2B. The hope is that what they lose in defense at 3B they more than make up for at 2B.

I'll say this - after watching Beltre at 3B the last 5 years, it's going to be painful to see Lopez manning the hot corner...

Figgy should be good pretty much wherever you put him, so 2B will be fine. I would think a bad 3B would hurt more than a bad 2B, simply because a bad 3B leads to more doubles, seeing eye grounders into LF and the bad throws happen more often (putting men further along on the basepaths). Also you need quicker reactions at 3B.

At 2B, sure, you'll probably see more plays, but you won't give up doubles, hits to right don't hurt as bad as hits to left from what I have found and the distance to first is much shorter. The double play impact would be higher, of course, as would stolen bases, but those all involve other positions as well that would mitigate the harm.

[cartman]

I wonder what happened over the past 7 weeks in the Mauer negotiations. At the beginning of February, it was a ten year deal, total amount unknown. Still an 8 year deal is a long contract, and gives the Twins a solid base going to the new stadium.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Figgy should be good pretty much wherever you put him, so 2B will be fine. I would think a bad 3B would hurt more than a bad 2B, simply because a bad 3B leads to more doubles, seeing eye grounders into LF and the bad throws happen more often (putting men further along on the basepaths). Also you need quicker reactions at 3B.

At 2B, sure, you'll probably see more plays, but you won't give up doubles, hits to right don't hurt as bad as hits to left from what I have found and the distance to first is much shorter. The double play impact would be higher, of course, as would stolen bases, but those all involve other positions as well that would mitigate the harm.

It's an interesting move for sure. And in a lot of ways, it makes sense on paper - Lopez doesn't have the greatest range, but is reasonably sure-handed and has a relatively strong arm, while Figgins is known for his very good range, but not a particularly strong arm.

And given the M's emphasis on defense, I have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they think this will improve the overall defense of the team.

But yeah, I worry about taking known quantities and switching them up, and you're right that bad defense at 3B is potentially more costly in terms of extra bases. I haven't done enough poking around to see how many more chances a 2B typically gets vs. a 3B and whether that counters the extra base issue. My understanding is the current thinking on defensive spectrum gives about equal weight to 2B and 3B in terms of difficulty.

We'll see if the M's stick with it throughout the season, or whether Lopez bombs enough at 3B to start the season that they end up switching back. It's clear though that the M's don't have Lopez in their long-term 2B plans...

[Logan]

Does the Mauer deal make other smaller market owners/GMs nervous? I fully understand that not getting Mauer signed could potentially destroy the Minny fanbase, especially considering they just got public money for their new stadium. But it seems like it's going to be very hard for some other teams to make the claim they can't afford their homegrown stars anymore.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Logan

Does the Mauer deal make other smaller market owners/GMs nervous? I fully understand that not getting Mauer signed could potentially destroy the Minny fanbase, especially considering they just got public money for their new stadium. But it seems like it's going to be very hard for some other teams to make the claim they can't afford their homegrown stars anymore.

Well, I'm sure other small market teams can afford like one 20M guy... but what happens if Mauer gets horribly injured next year? They'll be so crippled financially, I took it as other small market teams can't take that risk?

[SackAttack]

Well, you also have to wonder, when the team steps up and makes that commitment, does the fanbase follow with their wallets and support the team?

It's always seemed to me to be a little bit chicken or the egg. Huizenga tore the Marlins apart immediately after their first championship, and the fanbase responded by not showing up.

If he had kept that team together, would they have shown up to support a championship team? We'll never know. And that impacts what happens after the second championship, too. Because how, as a fan, do you trust that won't happen again after it's happened once?

[molson]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Well, I'm sure other small market teams can afford like one 20M guy... but what happens if Mauer gets horribly injured next year? They'll be so crippled financially, I took it as other small market teams can't take that risk?

Beyond Mauer, the Twins payroll has shot up. I heard someone on ESPN say that they were approaching $100 million, not sure if that was this year or next.

He also described how the new stadium has transformed them from a small-market team to a mid-market team. And really, if you're going to tax people to build a stadium, you need to use some of the increased revenue for the product.

[sovereignstar]

The Twins' payroll is approaching 100 million this season. Minus Mauer, the Twins will still be spending more than usual.

Mike Vic: Don't forget about insurance. Obviously it wouldn't cover the entire sum, but a career-ending injury wouldn't cost them everything.

[lungs]

The Brewers are coming into a similar situation with Prince Fielder with some key differences:

1) Prince is not a catcher
2) Prince does not have the body type that ages well
3) Prince is a Scott Boras client

I don't doubt the Brewers' sincerity in trying to work something out with Fielder. They offered CC Sabathia 20 million/year only to be outdone by the Yankees of course.

It's going to come down to what Prince is asking for. If he wants 7-8 years, the Brewers will probably have to say forget it. He could easily turn into Mo Vaughn very quickly. But I'd be willing to do 5-6 years at 20+ million for Prince, and I think they could do it too. Ryan Braun is signed to a very very team friendly contract through 2015 so it's not an either/or proposition.

[Logan]

I think teams are getting better at this sort of thing and I think the players have helped the process out too. I could be way off in terms of the general baseball population, but it seems like more of these young guys are willing to stay with their teams once their deals are up. Maybe it's due to teams taking care of them early on by giving them bigger money to avoid arbitration in exchange for a year or two of free agency. It helps build loyalty and causes players not to seek that biggest payday. Maybe revenue sharing is working well enough where teams can afford to make the commitment in the first place.

Hopefully, teams are also realizing that if you choose to let your franchise player walk instead of paying them $15MM, and you replace him with a retread for $5MM, and you destroy your fanbase in the process...you're not getting the same benefit to your bottom line that you expected.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by lungs

The Brewers are coming into a similar situation with Prince Fielder with some key differences:

1) Prince is not a catcher
2) Prince does not have the body type that ages well
3) Prince is a Scott Boras client

I don't doubt the Brewers' sincerity in trying to work something out with Fielder. They offered CC Sabathia 20 million/year only to be outdone by the Yankees of course.

It's going to come down to what Prince is asking for. If he wants 7-8 years, the Brewers will probably have to say forget it. He could easily turn into Mo Vaughn very quickly. But I'd be willing to do 5-6 years at 20+ million for Prince, and I think they could do it too. Ryan Braun is signed to a very very team friendly contract through 2015 so it's not an either/or proposition.

I'd deal Fielder now - he's not worth a 5-6 year contract a $20M per; he's a 1B, and the gap between him and Matt Gamel is probably 2 wins, or ~!$8M of value; there is no way on earth I would give Fielder a 5 year, $100M deal, and I bet he wouldn't get it in free agency. Really, outside of Pujols, its very very hard to justify paying a 1B that big amount of dollars. One important lesson for small market teams is not to pay good players (but not superstars) at superstar-level composition; or what I call the Jason Kendall conundrum.

[stevew]

Prince is probably one of the few athletes that could say, with a straight face, that 20M/year is. OT enough to feed his family.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I'd deal Fielder now - he's not worth a 5-6 year contract a $20M per; he's a 1B, and the gap between him and Matt Gamel is probably 2 wins, or ~!$8M of value; there is no way on earth I would give Fielder a 5 year, $100M deal, and I bet he wouldn't get it in free agency. Really, outside of Pujols, its very very hard to justify paying a 1B that big amount of dollars. One important lesson for small market teams is not to pay good players (but not superstars) at superstar-level composition; or what I call the Jason Kendall conundrum.

I can see what you are saying. But I also believe Gamel will be a bust. He's always getting hurt and the management absolutely hates his work ethic. I don't think his numbers would look all that impressive for a first baseman anyway.

But yeah, you could probably plug some other first baseman in there for a lot less money. But like I said, with Braun signed on the cheap I'd take my chances with getting Fielder signed. Prospects have become valued so much these days that I'm not sure fair value could be had for Prince.

[cartman]

Milton Bradley says he is MLB's version of Kanye West:

Mariners' Milton Bradley: I'm baseball's Kanye West - ESPN

So, I guess the questions to ask is, "Do you like fish sticks?"

[Neuqua]

I am fully convinced that there is something genuinely wrong with Milton Bradley.

[Lathum]

He's lucky he now plays in the city that probably cares least about sports.

[RedKingGold]

I'm FOFC's Milton Bradley.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

He's lucky he now plays in the city that probably cares least about sports.

Now now, you need to be here long enough to see a good team in these parts before you render that judgment...

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Now now, you need to be here long enough to see a good team in these parts before you render that judgment...

A fan base shouldn't be judged by how they act when their team is good.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

A fan base shouldn't be judged by how they act when their team is good.

That may be, but I find it a little hard to believe that a city that has supported the M's as well as they have since the '95 run despite a lot of adversity in recent years, that has arguably the best home stadium advantage in the NFL with the Seahawks and the 12th man fans, and has spent over a billion dollars in the last decade building state of the art sports stadiums could really be judged to "care the least" about sports...

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

That may be, but I find it a little hard to believe that a city that has supported the M's as well as they have since the '95 run despite a lot of adversity in recent years, that has arguably the best home stadium advantage in the NFL with the Seahawks and the 12th man fans, and has spent over a billion dollars in the last decade building state of the art sports stadiums could really be judged to "care the least" about sports...

and lost a basketball team...(runs away and hides... )