anyone watching Dollhouse (FOX show)?

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Mrs. A and I still watch it. But we acknowlege that it is just not that good of a show. No real suprise that it got the axe.

I think it's come a long way from the early first season episodes. Also, if you guys didn't see the DVD only episode, 'Epitaph One', trust me when i say you really need to. Netflix it or whatever. It adds a great deal of depth to the show.

But i knew heading into season 2 this show was doomed, it was actually stunning it even got a second season.

Whedon is not a major network guy. The sooner he realizes that and gets to work with SyFy or something, the better off he will be.

[cthomer5000]

BTW... it is amazing that we all highlighted the red flag of making Dushku the lead actress on page 1, but that this apparently wasn't problematic for those involved in getting this show on the air.

Again, the 'politics' of getting a show on the air very often kill any chance of a show actually being good. Dushku basically made this project happen, but she has certainly had a hand in ensuring it isn't all it could be.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I think it's come a long way from the early first season episodes. Also, if you guys didn't see the DVD only episode, 'Epitaph One', trust me when i say you really need to. Netflix it or whatever. It adds a great deal of depth to the show.

I heard that the show got good after the first handful of episodes, but my DVR ate those episodes (I think I tried to record too much football or hockey or something) and so I had about a 4-5 episode gap that I just never bothered to fill.

I will probably end up renting the rest of it on Netflix some day, but it's currently at the back of a rather long que in terms of TV DVD watching (Season 5 of the Wire, Rome, Deadwood, and Seasons 3 to the end of BSG).

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

BTW... it is amazing that we all highlighted the red flag of making Dushku the lead actress on page 1, but that this apparently wasn't problematic for those involved in getting this show on the air.

Again, the 'politics' of getting a show on the air very often kill any chance of a show actually being good. Dushku basically made this project happen, but she has certainly had a hand in ensuring it isn't all it could be.

Whedon approached her about a project during lunch one day and ended up developing the show. That's why she had executive producer credits.

I've just never been a fan of her acting, she's nice to look at but that's about it for me. Originally it was supposed to be more of an ensemble and less of her, but Fox pushed it to more her and less of the cast.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Whedon approached her about a project during lunch one day and ended up developing the show. That's why she had executive producer credits.

I've just never been a fan of her acting, she's nice to look at but that's about it for me. Originally it was supposed to be more of an ensemble and less of her, but Fox pushed it to more her and less of the cast.

I think on the DVDs, she came up to him. She offered him a lunch to discuss a deal she had with Fox I thought?

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Whedon approached her about a project during lunch one day and ended up developing the show. That's why she had executive producer credits.

I've just never been a fan of her acting, she's nice to look at but that's about it for me. Originally it was supposed to be more of an ensemble and less of her, but Fox pushed it to more her and less of the cast.

IIRC, she was contracted to FOX. Whedon pitched the idea to hear, but it would be more accurate to say she was bringing HIM aboard than the other way around. Without her, this whole thing was a non-starter.

And above all, I have no idea why FOX felt Eliza Dushku was some talent they needed to lock into some mutli-series deal.

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I think it's come a long way from the early first season episodes. Also, if you guys didn't see the DVD only episode, 'Epitaph One', trust me when i say you really need to. Netflix it or whatever. It adds a great deal of depth to the show.

But i knew heading into season 2 this show was doomed, it was actually stunning it even got a second season.

Whedon is not a major network guy. The sooner he realizes that and gets to work with SyFy or something, the better off he will be.

I watched Epitaph One and it will entirely change how you see the show.
When Joss promised All summer that season 2 would be a wild ride I was actually excited about season2.
Then it started back up with the Echo-of-the-week shows, just totally deflating....

They have 2 more shows to film and they already know they are canceled.
I think the ending will be brilliant.

[DanGarion]

This is the real reason Dollhouse was canceled.

See more funny videos and funny pictures at CollegeHumor.

[MikeVic]

lol so true.

[Greyroofoo]

I'd still probably watch those parody shows over Dollhouse

[BreizhManu]

must admit i didn't like the first season, 2nd season started better but not much, but last episodes since they announced it was going to be cancelled are quite good, especially the last one where we finally see the attic.

[Alan T]

I really enjoyed the last episode with the attic as well. I am confused though, did they skip like 4 or 5 episodes or something? I've been watching it each week I thought, but on the review of the previous episodes on Friday night, it was like I hadn't seen several of them and was kind of lost.

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I really enjoyed the last episode with the attic as well. I am confused though, did they skip like 4 or 5 episodes or something? I've been watching it each week I thought, but on the review of the previous episodes on Friday night, it was like I hadn't seen several of them and was kind of lost.

They didn't skip any.

In November they yanked it during sweeps.
To make up for it, Fox has been showing 2 new episodes back to back all of December.

[cthomer5000]

Yeah, it's a solid show. Unfortunately Joss Whedon is clearly a niche audience guy. Someone from SyFy really needs to woo him. He could be easily come up with a hit show for that network if he put his mind to it. But a major network? Never going to happen, he needs to get over it.

Also, wouldn't mind him maybe getting involved with Doctor Who. I guarantee he'd be a great fit, and they mentioned that Buffy was a big inspiration to a lot of the style of the relaunch of Doctor Who. Additionally, i see plenty of Torchwood/Angel similarities.

Thats my unsolicited career advice to Joss Whedon.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Yeah, it's a solid show. Unfortunately Joss Whedon is clearly a niche audience guy. Someone from SyFy really needs to woo him. He could be easily come up with a hit show for that network if he put his mind to it. But a major network? Never going to happen, he needs to get over it.

But he's already had two hit on major network that aired for 5 or more seasons... So it already did happen. Heck I know it's just the WB/CW but Angel was the highest rated show on the channel when it was canned.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Yeah, it's a solid show. Unfortunately Joss Whedon is clearly a niche audience guy. Someone from SyFy really needs to woo him. He could be easily come up with a hit show for that network if he put his mind to it. But a major network? Never going to happen, he needs to get over it.

Also, wouldn't mind him maybe getting involved with Doctor Who. I guarantee he'd be a great fit, and they mentioned that Buffy was a big inspiration to a lot of the style of the relaunch of Doctor Who. Additionally, i see plenty of Torchwood/Angel similarities.

Thats my unsolicited career advice to Joss Whedon.

Maybe he needs to just quit fucking around with Fox and see if one of the other networks is less malicious?

[ISiddiqui]

You answered your own question. It was the WB/CW.

FWIW, "Burn Notice" on the USA Network has had consistantly better viewship numbers than "Angel" had (and the last few seasons much more so).

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Maybe he needs to just quit fucking around with Fox and see if one of the other networks is less malicious?

You mean like ABC, the former home of Pushing Daisies? If you don't have the ratings, you don't have the ratings.

[Travis]

From what I've read he had a contract with Fox that should be done after Dollhouse. He has said that once Dollhouse is done that he's done with TV and will explore online methods, so hopefully he can either find a great way to reach his audience there or he is approached by another network that will cooperate with him more.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Maybe he needs to just quit fucking around with Fox and see if one of the other networks is less malicious?

Again, as cthomer5000 said, he's a niche guy. When you have a "hit" for CW, that's not the same as one of the big 4. I'm guessing it doesn't draw enough for even NBC, in its desperate state. The Syfy idea is the best one out there, but I'm sure Joss would piss and moan about a lack of creative control and go back to being a glorified and overpaid fanboy cranking out internet memes.

SI

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Again, as cthomer5000 said, he's a niche guy. When you have a "hit" for CW, that's not the same as one of the big 4. I'm guessing it doesn't draw enough for even NBC, in its desperate state. The Syfy idea is the best one out there, but I'm sure Joss would piss and moan about a lack of creative control and go back to being a glorified and overpaid fanboy cranking out internet memes.

SI

Joss Whedon is fantasitc. Buffy, Angel, and Firefly are his and were three of the best shows on TV over the last 10-15 yeras. Dr. Horrible was also genius.

"glorified and overpaid fanboy", indeed...

[sterlingice]

He creates shows that are the best to *some people* but try showing anything he creates outside of his 20-35, predominantly male demographic. No, Buffy, Angel, and Firefly were not all in the top 15 shows over the last 15 years unless you're in that group and not even for a majority of those folks- you could easily survive on a network if even half the people in that demographic love your shows.

SI

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

He creates shows that are the best to *some people* but try showing anything he creates outside of his 20-35, predominantly male demographic. No, Buffy, Angel, and Firefly were not all in the top 15 shows over the last 15 years unless you're in that group and not even for a majority of those folks- you could easily survive on a network if even half the people in that demographic love your shows.

SI

Predominantly male? I beg to differ on that one. Whedon has a very strong female following.

As for Top 15 shows in the top 15 years (I didn't specify as to "Top 15", just more general in terms of "top shows"). And I'm not going by viewership or ratings, because that is a very, very, very poor indicator of the quality of a show.

American Idol has been the top of the tops when it comes to ratings since it began and it is utter crap.

In terms of quality of writing, drama, comedy, action, characters, etc, Whedon's shows are tops for show. If you take out premium cable shows (HBO/Showtime) and leave it terms of network TV it's not even close.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

He creates shows that are the best to *some people* but try showing anything he creates outside of his 20-35, predominantly male demographic. No, Buffy, Angel, and Firefly were not all in the top 15 shows over the last 15 years unless you're in that group and not even for a majority of those folks- you could easily survive on a network if even half the people in that demographic love your shows.

SI

I'm just going to post this verbatim from Wikipedia.

The series usually reached between four and six million viewers on original airings.[1] Although such ratings are lower than successful shows on the "big four" networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox),[2] they were a success for the relatively new and smaller WB Television Network.[3] Reviews for the show were positive,[4] and it was ranked #41 on the list of TV Guide's 50 Greatest TV Shows of All Time as well as #2 on Empire's 50 Greatest TV Shows of All Time. Buffy was also voted #3 in TV Guide's Top 25 Cult TV Shows of All Time and included in TIME Magazine's 100 Best TV Shows of All Time.[5] It was nominated for Emmy and Golden Globe awards, winning a total of 3 Emmys. The WB network ceased operation on September 17, 2006 after airing an "homage" to its "most memorable series", including the pilot episodes of Buffy and its spin-off Angel.[6] Buffy's success has led to hundreds of tie-in products, including novels, comics, and video games. The series has received attention in fandom (including fan films), parody, and academia, and has influenced the direction of other television series.[7]

[sterlingice]

I'm ok with Buffy being ranked in a recent top 50, particularly given its cult status, tho of all time is really debatable. It was fairly influential and popular.

However, the statement "Buffy's success has led to hundreds of tie-in products, including novels, comics, and video games. The series has received attention in fandom (including fan films), parody, and academia, and has influenced the direction of other television series" can describe a number of shows.

And, no, Buffy, Angel, and Firefly are not top 15 of the last 15 years. I mean, I love Aaron Sorkin, but it's like me saying West Wing (very deservedly), Sports Night (excellent cult show), and Studio 60 all belong on the top 15 of the last 15 years, too- I like them each a lot, to varying degrees (Studio 60 less so than the others), but they just don't all belong on that list.

SI

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I'm ok with Buffy being ranked in a recent top 50, particularly given its cult status, tho of all time is really debatable. It was fairly influential and popular.

However, the statement "Buffy's success has led to hundreds of tie-in products, including novels, comics, and video games. The series has received attention in fandom (including fan films), parody, and academia, and has influenced the direction of other television series" can describe a number of shows.

And, no, Buffy, Angel, and Firefly are not top 15 of the last 15 years. I mean, I love Aaron Sorkin, but it's like me saying West Wing (very deservedly), Sports Night (excellent cult show), and Studio 60 all belong on the top 15 of the last 15 years, too- I like them each a lot, to varying degrees (Studio 60 less so than the others), but they just don't all belong on that list.

SI

What would belong on such a list?

NCIS? Law & Order? All three CSIs? Jersey Shore?

I am not sure if I'd put "Angel" in any Top 15, but I would put Buffy and Firefly both in the Top 20 (possibly Top 15) without reservation or hesitation. Buffy would almost assuredly be a top 5 and Firefly somewheres in the 10+ due to its brevity.

I'm not a big Sorkin fan, but based on what I've read and heard, I'd imagine both "West Wing" and "Sports Night" could easily find their place on such a list.

If you exclude premium channels (no "Wire", "Sopranos", "Rome", "Deadwood", "Dexter" or what have you), it's even easier.

[ISiddiqui]

To be quite honest, the uber-fanboyism of Whedon fans pisses me off. Firefly was ok, but for some to consider it one of the Top 15/20 shows of all time (and taking offense if you disagree as a lot of Whedon fans, but not all mind, seem to like to to do) is just kinda silly.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

To be quite honest, the uber-fanboyism of Whedon fans pisses me off. Firefly was ok, but for some to consider it one of the Top 15/20 shows of all time (and taking offense if you disagree as a lot of Whedon fans, but not all mind, seem to like to to do) is just kinda silly.

+1000

[Radii]

The last few regular episodes were clearly rushed, but epitaph two was really great IMO. I thoroughly enjoyed this for the two seasons it was on and am sad its over. I'm not usually into sci-fi, don't give a shit about Whedon or anything, but this series had a great concept and was done well enough to be very entertaining.

[gi]

I enjoyed the series when they concentrated on anyone other than the main character. Topher's character was my favorite and his story arc (though rushed like you said) was amazing.

I'll miss it, Joss takes a couple seasons to get rolling and I'd have liked to have seen what he could have done.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by gi

Topher's character was my favorite and his story arc (though rushed like you said) was amazing.

Yeah I agree with that, I loved Topher, seeing him in the last episode was tough. The couple scenes they did where they imprinted Victor as Topher were my favorite scenes of the entire series. The dude playing Victor always seemed to be the most diverse actor there and his Topher impression was just amazing.

[JeeberD]

I agree 100%, Radii. My wife and I loved it when Victor was Topher...the dude absolutely nailed it. My wife suggested that maybe he did a Topher impersonation at the cast Christmas party and that Whedon decided to put it in the show. I don't know, but all I know is that it was awesome every time the did it...

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

I agree 100%, Radii. My wife and I loved it when Victor was Topher...the dude absolutely nailed it. My wife suggested that maybe he did a Topher impersonation at the cast Christmas party and that Whedon decided to put it in the show. I don't know, but all I know is that it was awesome every time the did it...

Agree with you and Radii. Victor as Topher 2.0 was one of the most entertaining aspects of the show.

Does anybody know what Topher "realized" just before the bomb scene in the final episode?