Stafford to start.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Detroit Lions to start No. 1 overall pick Matthew Stafford at QB - ESPN

I like Stafford, but I really think that Culpepper should have got the opportunity after all the work he put in. If he faultered, then you turn to the future. If he played well, you can still bring in the kid to get some reps.

As it is now, when Stafford goes out there and is 13/29 for 147 yards with 1 TD, 3 int's with maybe a fumble or 2... Do you turn to Culpepper? You already told him he's not good enough, and whatever you do you're stuck with either benching a young QB or leaving him out there hanging.

Hopefully I'm wrong.

[DeToxRox]

Stafford will start and stay the starter barring injury. Gotta' take your lumps but this kid is good. Expecting big things down the road from he and Calvin.

[bronconick]

I would have waited until after week 6. Defenses like Pittsburgh, Minnesota, at Green Bay, trying to keep up with the Saints offense at New Orleans to start with? This team is very possibly, even likely to start out 0-6. Let Culpepper get his head torn off vs. those defenses, and turn to Stafford after the bye week with St. Louis at home and at Seattle.

I just hope he doesn't have that battered wife look that Harrington perfected by then.

[Racer]

I think Stafford will be okay as long as Calvin Johnson doesn't get hurt.

[lynchjm24]

Unless you can't block well enough to keep him from getting killed he's got to play.

[RendeR]

I think i can name 1 QB who actually sat the first year and still came on and performed well. That would be Palmer.

I say put his ass in and let him elad his team. They'll either fly or fall together.

[Tasan]

Joe Montana?

Brett Favre?

Tom Brady?

Kurt Warner?

Tony Romo?

Steve McNair?

I'll stop now. You can sit and learn and be good. It just doesn't work for everyone.

[flere-imsaho]

In general, with the caveat that each player is developmentally different, it seems to me best to have the QB you drafted that high start as soon as possible. For one, reps in real games lead to real development. For two, you've invested a lot in this kid and might as find out as soon as possible if he's any good.

Now, the main reason I wouldn't start a high-draft rookie right away is if your O-Line absolutely sucks. No point in putting the kid in there to get sacked 200 times a season (Hi David Carr).

I think it's a smart move on the part of the new HC in Detroit. You've probably got 2 years of leeway before you need to show real progress, so you might as well find out as soon as possible if Stafford can hack it. If he can, you're golden and can move onto other problems on the team. If he can't, you can prioritize getting a good FA QB (or even starting Culpepper if he's still around) asap.

[Doug5984]

As a saints fan, and season ticket holder- I like the move for Sunday.

(Although our defenses in the past have made average QBs look great- hoping Greg Williams can change that)

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Tasan

Joe Montana?

Brett Favre?

Tom Brady?

Kurt Warner?

Tony Romo?

Steve McNair?

I'll stop now. You can sit and learn and be good. It just doesn't work for everyone.

Is this one of those "One of these doesn't belong with the other" puzzles?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Doug5984

As a saints fan, and season ticket holder- I like the move for Sunday.

(Although our defenses in the past have made average QBs look great- hoping Greg Williams can change that)

I wouldn't worry too much about that. Even if Stafford looks "great" on Sunday, Brees will look Godlike. The Lions' defense is still abysmal. They have some good linebackers, but no defensive line or secondary at all.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I wouldn't worry too much about that. Even if Stafford looks "great" on Sunday, Brees will look Godlike. The Lions' defense is still abysmal. They have some good linebackers, but no defensive line or secondary at all.

As someone who just started a franchise with the Lions in Madden 10, I can vouch for this.

[RendeR]

Joe Montana?Drafted by the San Francisco 49ers in the 3rd round (82nd overall) of the 1979 NFL Draft.

Brett Favre? Drafted by the Atlanta Falcons in the 2nd round (33rd overall) of the 1991 NFL Draft.

Tom Brady? Drafted by the New England Patriots in the 6th round (199th overall) of the 2000 NFL Draft.

Kurt Warner? NOT DRAFTED

Tony Romo? NOT DRAFTED

Steve McNair?

I'll stop now. You can sit and learn and be good. It just doesn't work for everyone.

Perhaps you shouldn't have started since you're wrong on all counts.

Now perhaps I'm just being obtuse and you have some real fucking clue hidden somewhere under that pretentious holier than thou facade, but perhaps you should keep the conversation in context with TOP DRAFT PICKS.

The only guy you mention that fits here is McNair (1.3 pick) and he sat for 2 seasons before starting and then sucked ass for two more before coming into his own. Even in the SB year of 1999 his completion percentage was under 60 and his QB rating was 78.6

It certainly DOESN"T work for everyone. It seems to have worked for Carson Palmer, it may well have worked for a few others. I'm not saying it doesn't but when you look at some GREAT quarterbacks it seems that they fair better taking the reigns and running with them.

Dan Marino (16 starts)
John Elway (10 starts)
Peyton Manning (16 starts)
Troy AIkman (11 starts)
Bob Greise (10 starts)


But I'll stop now so you can sit down and stfu for awhile.

[Jughead Spock]

You'd have to hope that part of the reason you drafted a guy that high is he could handle the pressure. BUT... there is the case of Vince Young and many others. I don't think there's a guaranteed best way either way.

I like the move in this case, mostly because he & Culpepper look to be such different types of QBs. I don't know that he'd learn a ton from Culpepper who's made a lot of success (when he had it) from athleticism. Seems like it'd be an entirely different gameplan for Culpepper as opposed to Stafford.

Personally, I think Stafford's gonna flame out, but who knows.

[RendeR]

Something I wish we could find out is wether those who DID sit for a year or more before starting would have done jsut as well starting from the get-go.

I'm of the opinion that it wouldn't have mattered, your either a top flight QB or your not, how and when you get your starting spot won't make a difference in that.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I'm of the opinion that it wouldn't have mattered, your either a top flight QB or your not, how and when you get your starting spot won't make a difference in that.

BINGO

[Tasan]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Perhaps you shouldn't have started since you're wrong on all counts.

Now perhaps I'm just being obtuse and you have some real fucking clue hidden somewhere under that pretentious holier than thou facade, but perhaps you should keep the conversation in context with TOP DRAFT PICKS.

The only guy you mention that fits here is McNair (1.3 pick) and he sat for 2 seasons before starting and then sucked ass for two more before coming into his own. Even in the SB year of 1999 his completion percentage was under 60 and his QB rating was 78.6

It certainly DOESN"T work for everyone. It seems to have worked for Carson Palmer, it may well have worked for a few others. I'm not saying it doesn't but when you look at some GREAT quarterbacks it seems that they fair better taking the reigns and running with them.

Dan Marino (16 starts)
John Elway (10 starts)
Peyton Manning (16 starts)
Troy AIkman (11 starts)
Bob Greise (10 starts)


But I'll stop now so you can sit down and stfu for awhile.

Geez man chill. I just saw you say that you've only saw one that was able to do that. Looking back, I don't see a reference only top picks, just guys. Sorry to hit a nerve there. I wasn't even trying to be a dick, I was just posting some guys that went counter to what you had said. Nothing I said was personal or an attack.

[Passacaglia]

How about Phillip Rivers and Aaron Rodgers?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Tasan

Geez man chill. I just saw you say that you've only saw one that was able to do that. Looking back, I don't see a reference only top picks, just guys. Sorry to hit a nerve there. I wasn't even trying to be a dick, I was just posting some guys that went counter to what you had said. Nothing I said was personal or an attack.

Actually, you're absolutely right, I was in a pissy mood thanks to Noopid and I read your post totally wrong. I am very sorry for going off on you Tasan. It wasn't needed at all.

I re-read your post just now and went "WTF was I thinking?" I think I read "you can sit and learn for awhile" as telling meto sit down and shut up instead of in context of the conversation.

Very sorry bud.

[fantom1979]

One day when I am bored I will have to put together some stats of 1st round quarterbacks and see who does better. There are a few examples to cite either way. Render lists off some great examples of QB's that had great careers starting their first year... But I also think of the Ryan Leaf's, David Carr's, and Joey Harrington's that never panned out..... Also, as someone else mentioned, does it even matter? Would Carr, Leaf, and Harrington still sucked if they sat their first years? Would Manning and Aikman still have been Hall of Famers if they sat? Hummmmm.... hard to say.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I think i can name 1 QB who actually sat the first year and still came on and performed well. That would be Palmer.

I say put his ass in and let him elad his team. They'll either fly or fall together.

Yep... NOTHING there about top picks.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yep... NOTHING there about top picks.

Well perhaps we should look at A) the topic of the thread, Stafford...hrm, TOP PICK, then my comment...Palmer...HRM, another TOP PICK, so yes, there was commentary on top picks.

I didn't think reading for comprehension was really that fucking difficult Isi.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

This is why you're Top 5 ignored, btw.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

Also, as someone else mentioned, does it even matter? Would Carr, Leaf, and Harrington still sucked if they sat their first years? Would Manning and Aikman still have been Hall of Famers if they sat? Hummmmm.... hard to say.

I think that's the question that really can't be answered and makes a lot of stats irrelevant.

I think the Lions' offensive line will be better this year than the last few years. They have a little more depth and have changed blocking schemes. They're not great, but they are better than what Carr had in Houston or Harrington had earlier in Detroit.

I felt it was a toss up. If the coaching staff thinks Stafford is the right choice, well, I will believe them. Schwartz seems like a smart guy and Linehan knows Culpepper quite well. At this point, I will trust their judgment. Being that it is the Lions, however, unfortunately the coaching staff will likely soon lose the benefit of the doubt when it comes to decision-making. It's what happens.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

This is why you're Top 5 ignored, btw.

Glad you have something useful to add Ronnie.
Do me a favor.



JOIN THEM.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

One day when I am bored I will have to put together some stats of 1st round quarterbacks and see who does better. There are a few examples to cite either way. Render lists off some great examples of QB's that had great careers starting their first year... But I also think of the Ryan Leaf's, David Carr's, and Joey Harrington's that never panned out..... Also, as someone else mentioned, does it even matter? Would Carr, Leaf, and Harrington still sucked if they sat their first years? Would Manning and Aikman still have been Hall of Famers if they sat? Hummmmm.... hard to say.

I don't think it would matter one way or another with any of these guys. Aikman , Elway, Marino, Montana, all guys that would have succeeded regardless of when they played. Same thing with Favre. On the other hand, Harrington, Carr, Leaf, Andre Ware, etc...., all guys that just didn't have "it".

I don't know if Stafford has "it" yet. We will find out in the next 2-3 years.

[bighouserulez]

Here is a tally from 1990. It seems to trend three differnt ways imo.

a)You start early and if you have the talent you pan out.
b)You sit behind a decent player and develop on a decent or good team.
c)maturity....you will see alot of the players come abck at later points in their career to have much stronger seasons

The *** denotes starting qb as a rookie for majority of the year


1990
***Jeff George picked 1.1***
He started 12/13 games and was pretty much
handed the job from day one.
career 27,602 yards 154 tds 113 ints 80.4 rating

Andre Ware picked 1.7
Sat behind Rodney Peete the entire year 1 start
career 1112 yards 5 tds 8 ints 63.5 rating
1991
Dan McGuire 1.16
He only starter one game his first year. Dave
Kreig owned the starting gig
career 745 yards 2 tds 6 ints 52.3 rating

Todd Marinovich 1.24
Started one game in year numero uno. jay Schroeder
was the starter for the Raiders
career 1345 yards 8 tds 9 ints 66.4 rating

Brett Favre 2.6
Not only did he not start he only threw 4 passes
in his first year with Chris Chandler at the helm.
career 65127 yards 464 tds 310 ints 85.4 rating

Browning Nagle 2.7
2 pass attempts his rookie year and that is all
Ken O'Brien was the man in NY that year for sure.
career 2489 yards 8 tds 20 ints 53.5 rating
1992
David Klingler 1.6
4 games started his rookie year(Boomer was hurt)
career 3994 yards 16tds 22 ints 65.1 rating

Tommy Maddox 1.25
4 games started while Elway was hurt. Does anyone
remember him and Shawn Moore were the Elway incumbants?
career 8087 yards 48 tds 54 ints 72.4 rating

Dave Brown 1.28A
The first two years you could barely even tell he
was on the team with 7 pass attempts
career 10248 yards 44 tds 58 ints 67.9 rating

Matt Blundin 2.12
Yeah 9 attempts in his CAREER!
Dave Krieg yet again holds off another rookie.
career 15 yards 0 tds 2 ints rating of 0.0 lol

Tony Sacca 2.17
Yeah another terrrible qb with 11 atts in his
career.
career 29 yards 0 tds 2 ints 0.0 rating
1993
***Drew Beldsoe 1.1***
Was handed the job from day one and tied marino's
record for most yards in first 6 games passing.
career 44611 yards 251 tds 206 ints 77.1 rating

****Rick Mirer 1.2****
Mirer starter 13 games and was set up for three
straight years as the man in Seattle.
career 11969 yards 50 tds 76 ints 63.5 rating
1994
****Heath Schuler 1.3****
He was give the job from day one and started 8 games
Career 3691 yards 15 tds 33 ints 54.3 rating

Trent Dilfer 1.6
he started 2 games in his first year.
He was annoited the starter the next 3 year also
career 20518 yards 113 tds 129 ints 70.2 rating
1995
Steve McNair 1.3
started the last two games of the season but really
sat the whole year.
career 31304 yards 174 tds 119 ints 82.8 rating

***Kerry Collins 1.5***
It was tough to go to an expansion team but Kerry took
the helm and started pretty much every game.
career 37393 yards 186 tds 179 ints 73.8 rating

Todd Collins 2.12
This perennial backup really never was the starter
on any team he was on.
career 4335 yards 22 tds 19 ints 76.2 rating

Kordell Stewart 2.28
he only started 4 games in 2 years. He was "slash"
if we could all remember he was the slot wide out.
career 14746 yards 77 tds 84 ints 70.7 rating
1996
****Tony Banks 2.10****
He was handed the Rams gig from day one started
14 games. He fumbles alot.
career 15315 yards 77 tds 73 ints 72.4 rating

1997
Jim Druckenmiller 1.26
He started 1 game in his career and finished his
career 1-0. Steve Young was the man as we know.
career 239 yards 1 td 4 ints 29.2 rating

****Jake PLummer 2.10****
He had 3 wins out of 10 starts and had 2 4th
quarter comebacks.
career 29253 yards 161 tds 161 ints 74.6 rating
1998
***Peyton Manning 1.1****
The COlts have been his as he has never missed
a start in his career and is one of the best ever.
career 45628 yards 333 tds 165 ints 94.7 rating

***Ryan Leaf 1.2****
Handed the Charger with kid gloves. He just turned
into a kid.
career 3666 yards 14 tds 36 ints 50 rating

****Charlie Batch 2.29****
Lions loved this guy from day one.
career 10033 yards 57 tds 44 ints 77.9 rating
1999
****Tim Couch 1.1****
The browns gave him the ball and he started 14
career-11131 yards 64 tds 67 ints 75.1 rating

Donavan McNabb 1.2
surprisingly they did not hand the job to Dmac
He started 6 games but not until later on
career 29320 yards 194 tds 90 ints 85.9 rating

Akili Smith 1.3
It was really the same as Mcnabb here Akili
only started 4 games.
career 2212 yards 5 tds 13 ints 52.8 rating

Daunte Culpepper 1.11
He rode the pine behind the likes of Brad Johnson
and Randall Cunningham
career 23208 yards 146 tds 100 ints 89.0 rating

Cade McNown 1.12
Did not start until week 8 and had 6 started total
The bears had terrible qb luck for a few years
career 3111 16 tds 19 ints 67.7

Shaun King 2.18
Was was inactive first 4 games and ended up starting
in 5 going 4-1
career 4566 yards 27 tds 24 ints 734. rating
2000

Chad Pennington 1.18
The bench warmer the first two years int he league
and led the preseason in passing twice
career 17391 yards 101 tds 62 ints 90.6 rating
2001
Micheal Vick 1.1
Only started 2 games his first year> His stats were
terrible that first year also.
career 11505 yards 71 tds 52 ints 75.7 rating

Drew Brees 2.1
I do not remember this but Brees did not start a
single game in his rookie year at all.
career 26258 yards 168 tds 99 ints 89.4 rating

Quincy Carter 2.20
He took over Da Boys after week 8 and never looked
back. I remembered thinking he was the real deal.
career 6337 yards 32 tds 37 ints 71.7

Marques Tuiasosopo 2.28
Has 2 starts in 6 years and was nevr really
considered a starter at all
career 554 yards 2 tds 7 ints 48.1 rating
2002
****David Carr 1.1*****
We all know this story. Expansion team hands keys
over to the kid from Fresno State from day one.
Career 14141 yards 64 tds 70 ints 74.9 rating

****Joey Harrington 1.3****
The savior in Detroit. He was not awful in his
first year Joey was what he was average and decent.
career 14693 yards 79 tds 85 ints 69.4 rating

***Patrick Ramsey 1.32***
In the year of hand the keys to the kids Ramsey was
lucky enough to have the old ball coach do the same.
career 5930 yards 35 tds 30 ints 74.9 rating
2003
Carson Palmer 1.1
Jon Kitna was the reason Palmer did not get onto
the field as a rookei leading a bad bengal team to 8-8
career 15630 yards 107 tds 67 ints 88.9 rating

****Byron Leftwich 1.7****
13 starts in his rookie year and did a pretty
good job his first two years.
career 9624 yards 54 tds 38 ints 80.3 rating

Kyle Boller 1.19
In his first year Brain Billick did not know who to
start so he wavered back and forth on Boller.
Career 7846 yards 45 tds 44 ints 71.9 rating

Rex Grossman 1.22
A little differnt thing here. Rex has been handed
the job since day one but could never stay healthy
career 6164 yards 33 tds 35 ints 70.2 rating
2004
Eli Manning 1.1
AS we all knwo ELi started the last half of his
rookie year to set a record for worst rating in
his rookie season ever.
career 14623 yards 98 tds 74 ints 76.1 rating

Philip Rivers 1.4
Rivers complained his first two years and that
is all he could do until they shipped Drew Brees
Career 10697 yards 78 tds 36 ints 92.9 rating

***Ben Roethlisberger 1.11***
Was not "handed" the keys but Tommy Maddox dropped
them into his lap after week 3.
career 14974 yards 101 tds 69 ints 89.4 rating

JP Losman 1.22
He threw 5 passes in his first year and did not
start until end of his 2nd year. Hello Doug Flutie
career- 6211 yards 33 tds 34 ints 75.6 rating
2005
****Alex Smith 1.1****
AS the first pick overall usually goes they told the
overrated qb from Utah to take this franchise.
career 4679 yards 19 tds 31 ints 63.5 rating

Aaron Rodgers 1.24
We all know thar Rodgers sat behind Favre forever
career 4367 yards 29 tds 14 ints 91.8 rating

Jason Campbell 1.25
Campbell did not take over until later int he season.
He has started ever since but they tried to trade for
a new quarterback this year.
career 7242 yards 35 tds 23 ints 80.4 rating
2006

****Vince Young 1.3****
Vince came off the best national championship game ever
to lead the Titans but he looked like a lesser Vick
career 4964 yards 22 tds 32 ints 68.8 rating

***Matt Leinart 1.10****
was drafted to have someone to get the balls to the
incredible wide outs. Too bad Warner had other plans.
career 3458 yards 14 tds 17 ints 71.7 rating

****Jay Cutler 1.11****
Really is a gunslinger and had taken over the broncoes
in his rookei year.
career 9024 yards 54 tds 37 ints 87.7 rating

[bighouserulez]

I totally agree with the Stafford starting. I feel Daunte worked hard and is in better shape but he still does not stand out as better .
I love the rookies that started from day one and if they had talent they panned out.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I don't know if Stafford has "it" yet. We will find out in the next 2-3 years.

And it's faster to find out if he has it to play him than sit him. I think it would be dumb to sit him really.