I HATE Capital One

[ColtCrazy]

I have a rather high credit card bill, paying for youth indiscretions, and we've been steadily paying it down despite us only being on my salary right now.

Then last month our minimum payment goes up nearly 50%! I call Capital One wondering why since I have no missed a payment. I basically get told it's because the current rates weren't in their best interest. What a bunch of crap.

So this month..guess what? It went up again! Only a few dollars, but considering the balance is less than last month..what gives! Capital One can rot in hell for all I care.


Sorry, had to vent somewhere.

[JediKooter]

Wasn't there some bill just signed preventing credit card companies from indiscriminately raising rates and stuff? I don't remember the details, so I may not be thinking the right thing here.

Definitely sucks man. Pay that bitch off as fast as possible and kiss Captiol One goodbye. See how much it's in their best interests to never get any money from you again.

[Flasch186]

Well in many a thread in FOFC you'll find some people who'll say, "tough shit"...

I however, being in the center of this storm or close to it can tell you that not only are the banks NOT helping many people contrary to what you see on the news and hear, they are continuing to fuck people at every corner possible.

In reference to Jedi above, I believe that the provisions of the bill havnt gone into effect yet so the banks are doing all the unscrupulous things they can now before the restrictions are put in place.

[bhlloy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the bill was basically in response to Capital One screwing their customers over, no? Didn't they double rates on a card that they advertised as "rates will not change during the lifetime of the card"? Not sure if this is the same deal that you are getting screwed on but I remember reading that somewhere (may even have been here at FOFC)

Either way, that sucks. I know at least a couple more people that are in the same boat you are. Doesn't seem like a very solid long-term strategy to piss so many people off, but I guess they are in so much trouble short-term that they just need the money grab and don't give a shit about the future.

[Passacaglia]

Word. It'll always be the Citrus Bowl to me, too.

But seriously, that sucks.

[molson]

It doesn't sound like he's talking about rates increasing, but the minimum payments increasing.

That's an across-the-boards change in the credit card industry, that has or will effect most credit cards over the next few months.

And the new credit card rules don't go into effect into next year. I don't know what impact those rules will have on mininum payments, but credit card companies are definitely going to try to get you any way they can before then.

[OldGiants]

I HATE Capital One

Welcome to the club.

I'd tell you some stories about Fairbanks and Morris who started this outfit when they took over the credit card division of Signet Bank, but I'd rather have some fun with OOTP.

[gstelmack]

The minimum payment stuff may be in response to legislation as well. Some companies had minimum payments below interest or somesuch, so your balance would actually go up. They've been ordered (or someone was working on legislation to order them) to raise minimum payments to some level that forces the card to get paid off in a reasonable amount of time rather than the 18+ years some were set up for.

[molson]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

The minimum payment stuff may be in response to legislation as well. Some companies had minimum payments below interest or somesuch, so your balance would actually go up. They've been ordered (or someone was working on legislation to order them) to raise minimum payments to some level that forces the card to get paid off in a reasonable amount of time rather than the 18+ years some were set up for.

I don't know if it's a requirement of the legislation, but it's a good point, I think a lot of people don't realize how much you get raped by the credit card companies if you only pay the minimum payment. It might be a way for them to bring in more cash quickly, but long term, you'd think they'd prefer you drag things out and pay them tons of interest over the decades.

[digamma]

How is your credit otherwise? You could look into opening a new account. Many offer attractive balance transfer options. And, with a threat to leave, Capital One may stop jacking you around rather than lose your business.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by digamma

How is your credit otherwise? You could look into opening a new account. Many offer attractive balance transfer options. And, with a threat to leave, Capital One may stop jacking you around rather than lose your business.

Yes, this is true. We recently threatened Wells Fargo and told them we were a click away from a better offer and they lowered our interest rate a whole bunch.

It's more expensive for credit card companies to get get new customers, so if they had any sense, they'll stop dicking you around and give in to your demands.

[ColtCrazy]

Great comments. As far as balance transfers, my credit isn't brilliant, but has improved considerably in the last 5 years since we've been more economically responsible. I don't know if I'd be able to transfer it over, but it's worth a shot.

As far as minimums, unfortunetly I'll have to pay minimums until the summer comes to an end. My wife graduated from college at a time with no teaching jobs in the area...and we had to take a higher insurance for the summer to pay off the wonderful 110K hospital bill our sons had. Luckily, the better insurance covers it and I can switch back to a lower cost one in September. Until then, it's minimums. Once September hits, I'll be putting extra resources in to kill it once and for all if the transfer option doesn't work.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

Great comments. As far as balance transfers, my credit isn't brilliant, but has improved considerably in the last 5 years since we've been more economically responsible. I don't know if I'd be able to transfer it over, but it's worth a shot.

As far as minimums, unfortunetly I'll have to pay minimums until the summer comes to an end. My wife graduated from college at a time with no teaching jobs in the area...and we had to take a higher insurance for the summer to pay off the wonderful 110K hospital bill our sons had. Luckily, the better insurance covers it and I can switch back to a lower cost one in September. Until then, it's minimums. Once September hits, I'll be putting extra resources in to kill it once and for all if the transfer option doesn't work.

Your better off getting an installment loan or home equity loan to pay it off. Just make sure you are done with your youthful indiscretions.

[sterlingice]

I know that when I got out of school, I had some credit card debt and the balance transfer option really helped my wife and I pay it off much quicker. You end up paying $50 or more for the service but if the balance is high enough, you'll easily save that in interest, going from even a middle percentage like 15% down to some transfer rate like 3% or even 0%

SI

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Your better off getting an installment loan or home equity loan to pay it off. Just make sure you are done with your youthful indiscretions.

never
never
never
never
never
never
never
never
never
never
never
never
never
never
never
Attach a lien to your house to pay of unsecured debt.
Worst case scenario and you have to file bankruptcy to make cc go bye bye...you keep your house...not necessarily true on a HELOC

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

never
never
never
never
never
never
never
never
never
never
never
never
never
never
never
Attach a lien to your house to pay of unsecured debt.
Worst case scenario and you have to file bankruptcy to make cc go bye bye...you keep your house...not necessarily true on a HELOC

Completely depends on the situation. Either way you want to pay off the cc debt as quick as possible and not run it back up.

[miked]

I may have mentioned this before, but Chase is as bad as Capital One. I had a chase card with probably 2k on it (most likely less) and literally every day they called my house to try and sell me products or something. I kept asking them to take me off the list and they kept calling. So I just canceled my card and continued to make payments. A few months later I check in and see that my minimum payment has gone up (I had been paying like $150/month and the minimums were about $55 so I never checked). Turns out they said I missed a payment and jacked my rate and minimum payment. The problem is I never missed a payment. I found the statement where it said I didn't pay and it was like:

6/1- Payment $150 (Thank you!)
6/15- Late fee assessed missed payment $75

So I spent about an hour arguing with them on the phone. First they said I had to fax over copies of the statement. Finally the 3rd "manager" I spoke to admitted they could look it up themselves and lo and behold I was correct, there was never a missed payment. So after another 20 minutes of being transferred around, they agreed to refund my late fee, but said they wouldn't change my rate back...because I had canceled the card. Something about not being able to change rates on inactive accounts. When I tried to remind them that the rate was hiked unfairly, they admitted as much, and even refunded my late fee, they just said it was my fault for canceling the account and there was nothing they could do.

Needless to say I tranferred the balance (to Capital One no doubt!) the next day and filed a complaint with the BBB. I will never, ever ever, get another card with those fuckers (they are probably not in business anyway).

[Swaggs]

I recently read that credit card companies are looking to drastically minimize their exposures (re: shrink and or eliminate their customers' lines of credit) by over a billion dollars in the next year. I have gotten one of my credit cards reduced by 10s of thousands (I never use it, so that may have been a factor) and another one changed the terms of their APR (not actually changing the %, but reserving the right to) in the past few months. My brother also had a similar term change.

I still have a very good credit score/debt to income/etc, so I'm guessing that they are trying to tighten and clean things up across the board. Hopefully, it will lead to less reliance on credit cards.

[miked]

Yeah, most of them are closing or drastically raising rates on "inactive" accounts. I got a letter from Capital One a few months ago stating my credit card (which was 5% APR) would be increase to 12.99% or I could opt out. I called them up and told them I'd like to cancel, so they increased my limit a few thousand and lowered the rate to 5%. Pretty silly.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Completely depends on the situation.

There is no situation imaginable where I would find it reasonable to stake your home on an unsecured debt.

That borders on pure stupidity in my opinion, then again IO and 3/1 ARMs were signd up for daily leading to the credit crisis so why not....

[Flasch186]

'offered', 'bundled', and 'securitized'

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

There is no situation imaginable where I would find it reasonable to stake your home on an unsecured debt.

That borders on pure stupidity in my opinion, then again IO and 3/1 ARMs were signd up for daily leading to the credit crisis so why not....

To lower interest from 20% to 6%? And be able to deduct the interest, besides? And, if doing so would not put your equity below 20%?

It makes a whole lot of sense to do this if you are committed to paying down the debt and not spending any more money on the card. For most people, its probably a bad idea because Americans can't seem to not spend too much on credit cards.

As to the original question, I wonder if the new credit card protection laws have gone into effect yet? Could this be Captital One screwing their customers before the law makes it harder for them to do so?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

The minimum payment stuff may be in response to legislation as well. Some companies had minimum payments below interest or somesuch, so your balance would actually go up. They've been ordered (or someone was working on legislation to order them) to raise minimum payments to some level that forces the card to get paid off in a reasonable amount of time rather than the 18+ years some were set up for.

Bingo.

Don't let reality and mathematics get in the way of everyone's rants about the evils of the credit card industry!

"But I want to pay $15 a month for the next 65 years on my $15,000 debt!!!"

[Gary Gorski]

Chase is doing the same thing to me. A while back they had a promotion where you could transfer a balance and pay like 4% for the life of the balance as long as there were no missed payments of course.

Well now I got a letter saying they're moving the minimum payment from 2% to 5% and there's no opt out or anything else. I called them and they basically told me that Chase decided it wasn't such a good idea to have done the promo because people are only paying the minimums and the interest is only 4% so they're not making enough money off of those people so they want those things paid off as soon as possible. They also admitted basically they can do whatever they want and there's nothing we can do about it.

Once we get the chase card paid off never again will I be using them for anything. So just a word to the wise - if you do dumb things with your credit card its your fault and they'll bend you over. If they do dumb things with their business they will also bend you over.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by panerd

Bingo.

Don't let reality and mathematics get in the way of everyone's rants about the evils of the credit card industry!

"But I want to pay $15 a month for the next 65 years on my $15,000 debt!!!"

True but when you have your monthly bills budgeted down to the last dollar sometimes and they tell you your $150 payment is now $375 that's only going to cause people to end up defaulting on the card or have other problems.

Either way - people made an agreement with the credit card company to borrow money at whatever rate and under specific terms. I would say that a company that can change their end of the deal at any time for any reason whether you held up your end (ie made required payments on time) is evil. If someone wants to pay $15 a month for 65 years that should be their choice (even if its not a smart one) if that was the terms of the agreement they signed and they did not default on that agreement.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

True but when you have your monthly bills budgeted down to the last dollar sometimes and they tell you your $150 payment is now $375 that's only going to cause people to end up defaulting on the card or have other problems.

Either way - people made an agreement with the credit card company to borrow money at whatever rate and under specific terms. I would say that a company that can change their end of the deal at any time for any reason whether you held up your end (ie made required payments on time) is evil. If someone wants to pay $15 a month for 65 years that should be their choice (even if its not a smart one) if that was the terms of the agreement they signed and they did not default on that agreement.

I agree but I think the point of the thread and most of the replies was that Capital One was screwing them over. But the point that gstelmack made and I agreed with was that Capital One wasn't screwing him over but complying with a government mandate that help people pay off their loans and not get stuck paying only interest for 65 years.

[molson]

Originally Posted by panerd

I agree but I think the point of the thread and most of the replies was that Capital One was screwing them over. But the point that gstelmack made and I agreed with was that Capital One wasn't screwing him over but complying with a government mandate that help people pay off their loans and not get stuck paying only interest for 65 years.

I don't think that legislation takes effect until next year. But this stuff (minimum payment increases, interest rate hikes), are being done across-the-board to bring money in now, before the uncertainties of what happens when the legislation takes effect.

So everyone that's swearing off any particular credit card comapany they're with should understand that whoever they move to is doing the same thing, to some portion of their customers.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by panerd

Bingo.

Don't let reality and mathematics get in the way of everyone's rants about the evils of the credit card industry!

"But I want to pay $15 a month for the next 65 years on my $15,000 debt!!!"

I would just point out that if paying $15/month for 65 years would get me out from under $15,000 in credit card debt, I'd take that deal every time, and so would you.

Or are you telling me you wouldn't choose to pay off a debt over 65 years if it meant a savings of $3,300 on what you actually owe?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

The minimum payment stuff may be in response to legislation as well. Some companies had minimum payments below interest or somesuch, so your balance would actually go up. They've been ordered (or someone was working on legislation to order them) to raise minimum payments to some level that forces the card to get paid off in a reasonable amount of time rather than the 18+ years some were set up for.

Indirectly it's in response to legislation. The bill doesn't take effect until next year because they made up some crap excuse about how they had to have time to update their systems for the new rules. Strange- whenever they want to raise rates or change rules in their benefit, it goes much quicker...

Basically, there's going to be a lot of funny business going on between now and next summer (or was it fall- something like 18 months from the passage time) as they try to sneak things by before the new rules take effect.

SI

[panerd]

I make a re-appearance in this thread because I still just don't get it. I was taught to use credit sparingly. The math only makes sense to use credit sparingly. So sometimes when I make a large purchase I will use a credit card so I don't have to carry large amounts of cash around (has sort of changed with debit cards) and around Christmas I will sometimes go a little over what I can afford for 1-2 months and then focus on paying the card off before I make any other purchases. Why am I supposed to feel sorry for people who feel the need to live outside their means? Because the culture says you have to keep up with the Joneses?

You didn't have to use a credit card. Name one thing that was so necessary that you had to spend money that you didn't have. And before anyone says college there are plenty of government loan options (even bank options) that make far more sense than credit cards. Before 80 people reply with the sick kid in the hospital. You know that 79 of you are full of shit and have a plasma TV or vacation memory that wasn’t something you could afford on your salary but you just had to have it.

So the companies are seedy? So what? So are pawn shops, rent to own stores, 5 year ARMS, check into cash stores, plastic surgeons. Why are the credit card companies held to any higher standard? You don't like them… don't use them. I bet most of us have never gone to a loan shark. So would you really feel sorry for a guy that gambled away $20,000 and had his legs broken? He knew what he was doing. Cut up the cards and try living within your means.

End angry rant.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by panerd

I make a re-appearance in this thread because I still just don't get it. I was taught to use credit sparingly. The math only makes sense to use credit sparingly. So sometimes when I make a large purchase I will use a credit card so I don't have to carry large amounts of cash around (has sort of changed with debit cards) and around Christmas I will sometimes go a little over what I can afford for 1-2 months and then focus on paying the card off before I make any other purchases. Why am I supposed to feel sorry for people who feel the need to live outside their means? Because the culture says you have to keep up with the Joneses?

You didn't have to use a credit card. Name one thing that was so necessary that you had to spend money that you didn't have. And before anyone says college there are plenty of government loan options (even bank options) that make far more sense than credit cards. Before 80 people reply with the sick kid in the hospital. You know that 79 of you are full of shit and have a plasma TV or vacation memory that wasn’t something you could afford on your salary but you just had to have it.

So the companies are seedy? So what? So are pawn shops, rent to own stores, 5 year ARMS, check into cash stores, plastic surgeons. Why are the credit card companies held to any higher standard? You don't like them… don't use them. I bet most of us have never gone to a loan shark. So would you really feel sorry for a guy that gambled away $20,000 and had his legs broken? He knew what he was doing. Cut up the cards and try living within your means.

End angry rant.

Yep...+1...x2 whatever...

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by panerd

I make a re-appearance in this thread because I still just don't get it. I was taught to use credit sparingly. The math only makes sense to use credit sparingly. So sometimes when I make a large purchase I will use a credit card so I don't have to carry large amounts of cash around (has sort of changed with debit cards) and around Christmas I will sometimes go a little over what I can afford for 1-2 months and then focus on paying the card off before I make any other purchases. Why am I supposed to feel sorry for people who feel the need to live outside their means? Because the culture says you have to keep up with the Joneses?

You didn't have to use a credit card. Name one thing that was so necessary that you had to spend money that you didn't have. And before anyone says college there are plenty of government loan options (even bank options) that make far more sense than credit cards. Before 80 people reply with the sick kid in the hospital. You know that 79 of you are full of shit and have a plasma TV or vacation memory that wasn’t something you could afford on your salary but you just had to have it.

So the companies are seedy? So what? So are pawn shops, rent to own stores, 5 year ARMS, check into cash stores, plastic surgeons. Why are the credit card companies held to any higher standard? You don't like them… don't use them. I bet most of us have never gone to a loan shark. So would you really feel sorry for a guy that gambled away $20,000 and had his legs broken? He knew what he was doing. Cut up the cards and try living within your means.

End angry rant.

I was waiting for this post. Yes, I understand I made mistakes..probably can't remember 99% of this shit that I put on it...I wasn't looking for sympathy, simply venting. Financially we've gotten steadily better for 5+ years. Other Bills have been paid off. We are down to one payment, this one. We don't even use this card, and haven't in 5 years (which they had to have noticed since my limit went up 5K). Capital One claimed I was warned about this hike...yet I had gone paperless and don't remember seeing anything from them about it.

Again, I was simply venting. I can afford the hike. Just annoying.

[RainMaker]

I have a credit card with them and for some reason still mail in checks. I do it 2 weeks before they are due and pay the full balance every month. Mailed my check as I do every time and they didn't credit it till 2 days after the deadline. But it showed up at my bank as being cashed 3 days before the deadline. Charged me a big late fee and interest. I called to bitch and they said they didn't get it in time and that they have to wait for everything to clear. I figured since I've been a loyal customer with no late payments since I've had it that they'd waive the fee (most used to). She said they can't do that anymore. I asked how do I know this didn't just sit in your mail room for a week? And why all of a sudden did it take 5 days after my bank shows it cashed before it was credited to my account? She couldn't answer.

Lot of shady stuff going on with credit cards these days. They are all trying to make up for their massive losses as well as cover up all the defaults. I'd say transfer your balance over but you'd just be moving to another shady company.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by panerd

So the companies are seedy? So what? So are pawn shops, rent to own stores, 5 year ARMS, check into cash stores, plastic surgeons. Why are the credit card companies held to any higher standard? You don't like them… don't use them. I bet most of us have never gone to a loan shark. So would you really feel sorry for a guy that gambled away $20,000 and had his legs broken? He knew what he was doing. Cut up the cards and try living within your means.

End angry rant.

Wait are you really going to compare publicly traded massive corporations to a pawn shop and loan shark? These companies are our banking system - if that's the case then how can you trust them to honor any other agreements with you - the very basic being that they're holding your money and you can get it whenever you want it? I think in all fairness, whether you feel people were irresponsible with their money or not, they signed up do to business with a supposedly reputable company and pretty much get screwed repeatedly by said company. Yeah if you go to a loan shark you may expect such an outcome - I think we should expect better from our banking institutions (especially when they're on the verge of going bankrupt and needed the government to bail them out)

[molson]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

I think in all fairness, whether you feel people were irresponsible with their money or not, they signed up do to business with a supposedly reputable company and pretty much get screwed repeatedly by said company.

If they actually go against the terms of agreement, then there's a legal option. But per the terms of the agreement, they have the right to change certain things about the "loan", subject to some kind of opt-out period. It's stacked in the credit card's favor typically, of course, but that's because they offer a hell of a service and people want it.

I don't think that makes them any less reputable.