Roguelike Competition?

Thomkal · 03-30-2009, 01:34 PM

In the Angband advice and help thread, the idea of a Roguelike competiion was brought up. I'm curious as to how many would be interested in such a thing?

Either Angband or one its variants or one of it "cousins" (Crawl, Adom) would be used with a set time ending that we can discuss. There are a wide variety of possible competitions. Most start out with everybody using the same character and then see who advances the furthest in the time period given. Some comps only let you run one character during the course of the comp, others would let you run as many as you want submitting your best finisher. Others might be specific in race/class, but let you roll your own character. Another could be totally random characters, and then there's an Ironband comp, where you go straight down into the dungeon from town and cannot return to the surface to sell/buy stuff.

If enough people decide to do this, I would suggest a Beastman ChaosWarrior using either the variant Zangband, which hasn't been updated in some time, or its own variant which is new-Z+Angband. Zangband can be found at http://angband.oook.cz/variants.php?variant=zangband. (download windows version) Z+Angband can be found at mangojuice75 - Z+Angband. Leaning towards Zangband right now cause I'm much more familar with it, but Z+Angband might appeal to others.

Of course, open to other ideas for a comp too.

Abe Sargent · 03-30-2009, 01:48 PM

Man, I had never veen herad of Z+ until now........awesome!

Abe Sargent · 03-30-2009, 01:51 PM

Oh man, I'm reading about that, and I had forgotten about Greater Hell Beasts. Awesome!

Thomkal · 03-30-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Oh man, I'm reading about that, and I had forgotten about Greater Hell Beasts. Awesome!

Heh Awesome is not the word I would have thought of to describe GHB's

Abe Sargent · 03-30-2009, 02:41 PM

I love this list! I love almost everything there. What I do not like are dedicated spell users not being able to know all of the spells for their genre. If I am playing a mage, and the only thing I can do is cast spells, I'd better know a bunch of spells.

thesloppy · 03-30-2009, 03:14 PM

I'll most definitely give whatever you come up with a try, but I can't offer much help/ideas, as I haven't played around with Z (or Z+ for that matter) in years. I most like the idea of everbody playing the same character (as many times as they want) and seeing who gets the furthest, but they all sound fun.

Thomkal · 03-30-2009, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I love this list! I love almost everything there. What I do not like are dedicated spell users not being able to know all of the spells for their genre. If I am playing a mage, and the only thing I can do is cast spells, I'd better know a bunch of spells.

yeah that's probably the major factor that would make me go for Zangband over Z+ right now. Rather have an easier learning curve for the newbies.

Thomkal · 03-30-2009, 03:27 PM

would probably want to play with the wilderness off too-which would be a shame with Z+ with the changes they have made in it with farms and quests and such.

Thomkal · 03-30-2009, 03:34 PM

heh was playtesting a Beastman ChaosWarrior and got turned into a Half-Giant which actually caused me to lose the level I just gained when I got turned into a Half-Giant. They don't call them ChaosWarriors for nothing.

path12 · 03-30-2009, 03:39 PM

Z?

Now c'mon fellas, I just got back on the Angband train.....

Abe Sargent · 03-30-2009, 03:46 PM

WTF? The wilderness is awesome. I still remember getting the Kill Cthulhu quest in Zangband and having to find where Rl'yeh had raised up from the depths, fight through a bunch of ancient ones and deep ones, and then kill Cthulhu himself. Awesome!

Zangband is so much better than Angband, and IF Z+ is better than that, with all of the things that made Z so good....

Abe Sargent · 03-30-2009, 03:47 PM

I also totally dug quest levels. I made them every other level. You must kill 20 Jackals. And then a staircase didn't pop out until you finished your quest. But, you got an XP bonus so it made leveling easier.

Abe Sargent · 03-30-2009, 03:55 PM

Too bad I had lost my files with my laptop a year ago. I had on there that I had made to Angband. For example, I moved Hydras to "x" and introduced the Mewlip race, including Swamp Mewlips, Forest Mewlips, uniques, and so forth. I also made a bunch more amulets, because I feel that the amulet slot is underused. I added Amulet of Telepathy and Amulet of Sustain All Stats and more. Anyway, it was cool.

Thomkal · 03-30-2009, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path12

Z?

Now c'mon fellas, I just got back on the Angband train.....

But you're an experienced player, you can handle Z too.

thesloppy · 03-30-2009, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I also totally dug quest levels. I made them every other level. You must kill 20 Jackals. And then a staircase didn't pop out until you finished your quest. But, you got an XP bonus so it made leveling easier.

I max out on ToME quests too....in ToME that means you either get a quest to kill X monsters, scattered throughout the dungeon, with a reward resulting in a traveling companion or a new skill, or you get a quest to save a princess, which is X monsters, packed into a single room, with a reward of an excellent/special item.

....it makes for some early action (and booty), that for sure, and it's probably yet another reason why I die so regularly and quickly.

Thomkal · 03-30-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

WTF? The wilderness is awesome. I still remember getting the Kill Cthulhu quest in Zangband and having to find where Rl'yeh had raised up from the depths, fight through a bunch of ancient ones and deep ones, and then kill Cthulhu himself. Awesome!

Zangband is so much better than Angband, and IF Z+ is better than that, with all of the things that made Z so good....

I agree the Wilderness is very cool. I just thought it might be too much for newbies to deal with with all the other changes from Angband to Zangband. I'd probably give a week or two before the start of the comp so players could get used to the game a bit.

Thomkal · 03-30-2009, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I also totally dug quest levels. I made them every other level. You must kill 20 Jackals. And then a staircase didn't pop out until you finished your quest. But, you got an XP bonus so it made leveling easier.

Yep I like em too. Nice way to get a good item early on plus the xp for the quest kills. But some of them sure could be nasty! I'm not sure quest levels are in Z+. Didn't see an option to set them when I created my test character.

Thomkal · 03-30-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Too bad I had lost my files with my laptop a year ago. I had on there that I had made to Angband. For example, I moved Hydras to "x" and introduced the Mewlip race, including Swamp Mewlips, Forest Mewlips, uniques, and so forth. I also made a bunch more amulets, because I feel that the amulet slot is underused. I added Amulet of Telepathy and Amulet of Sustain All Stats and more. Anyway, it was cool.

Such treasure lost.

thesloppy · 03-30-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I added Amulet of Telepathy and Amulet of Sustain All Stats and more. Anyway, it was cool.

..those are already in ToME....and you can fly...and grow extra limbs...and wear simbiotic monsters/molds....and have sentient weapons that level up...and there's a wilderness and a bunch of towns, and like a dozen or two dungeons...and there's a bunch of mods available...and there's a customizable auto-destroyer that cleans up your inventory for you....and programmable keymaps and macros....and....and...and...

...ok, now I just sound like an infomercial. You're gonna love my nuts.

Thomkal · 03-30-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesloppy

..those are already in ToME....and you can fly...and grow extra limbs...and wear simbiotic monsters/molds....and have sentient weapons that level up...and there's a wilderness and a bunch of towns, and like a dozen or two dungeons...and there's a bunch of mods available...and there's a customizable auto-destroyer that cleans up your inventory for you....and programmable keymaps and macros....and....and...and...

...ok, now I just sound like an infomercial. You're gonna love my nuts.

yeah ToME is so different than Angband. It's fun, but not the variant I would recommend for people coming off Angband.

Lonnie · 03-31-2009, 01:13 AM

I'd be up for a play along. I've been playing a lot of Crawl lately, so will take me a bit to readjust to *band interface and commands.

JAG · 03-31-2009, 02:21 PM

I'd be interested. It was fun when we did it a while back. I think version two was with beastman chaoswarriors which was a blast with all the craziness from mutations / chaos patron rewards. Also, nice tip on Z+, I hadn't heard of it either. Sounds like he's made some good updates.

Thomkal · 03-31-2009, 09:32 PM

Well it sounds like we might have enough people to give it a try. Most seem to like the idea of a beastman chaos-warrior. I would probably generate one for the competition since the various demon patrons can vary on the "gifts" they can give. I'll try to get one that doesn't polymorph much.

Z+Angband seems to be the popular choice, but I still worry that it might be too much for newbies given the differences. Especially if we keep the wilderness in play. In any case, I think we could have a "getting-used" period (a week?) before the comp started so people could get used to the game and race/class.

How long do we want the comp to last? 2 weeks? a month? With the winner being who gets the highest level character? Since its the first comp, we should probably allow "do-overs" only submitting the highest level character at the end. So you'd not be able to "cheat-death" and continue on with the character if he dies, just start a new one.

Everybody cool with just posting the final character dump to determine the winner or would you feel more comfortable with sending the character file to me to verify that it's a legal entry? I'd like to think we don't have anybody that desperate to cheat on a roguelike comp though.

Abe Sargent · 03-31-2009, 09:45 PM

Fine by me

Thomkal · 04-02-2009, 02:00 PM

well other than Abe not seeing any chatter about this idea, so how about starting the Comp on Monday and lasting for two weeks? I would create a character for us all to use to be posted on Monday.

Any objections? Any newbie want more time? Any questions about Z+Angband that need to be answered before the comp?

path12 · 04-02-2009, 03:16 PM

I'm tentatively in, but not sure yet so I haven't said anything. Having a blast getting back into Angband and have only tried Z once a few years back......

JAG · 04-02-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal

well other than Abe not seeing any chatter about this idea, so how about starting the Comp on Monday and lasting for two weeks? I would create a character for us all to use to be posted on Monday.

Any objections? Any newbie want more time? Any questions about Z+Angband that need to be answered before the comp?

Fine by me. Are there any other rules that should be clarified before we start?

Thomkal · 04-03-2009, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

Fine by me. Are there any other rules that should be clarified before we start?

None that I can think of, but I haven't run one of these before. All I ask is that people try to play the game a little before the comp starts to get used to the changes from Angband, especially the spell system changes and the wilderness.

Malificent · 04-05-2009, 08:33 AM

I'm in for this.

Thomkal · 04-05-2009, 09:27 AM

Glad to have you Mali!

Malificent · 04-05-2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Glad to have you Mali!

Beastman Chaos Warrior is my absolute favorite combination to play. There is absolutely no way I could miss out.

Thomkal · 04-05-2009, 09:03 PM

This is NOT the character, but I'm unsure what file I need to attach here for everybody to use. Can somebody download this and see if it works please?

Thomkal · 04-05-2009, 09:04 PM

It should go in the lib/save folder I think.

Thomkal · 04-05-2009, 09:17 PM

Also, I looked in the chaos patron spoilers to find a more "friendly" patron. Thus I know which "gifts" he can give and which he will not. I will post these in the Competition Thread tomorrow if you feel I should in the name of fairness.

Malificent · 04-05-2009, 09:55 PM

This pulled up a level 10 Hobbit Rogue Robber with 1852 gold in the middle of a dungeon. Good?

Thomkal · 04-05-2009, 10:04 PM

Yep that worked. Thanks Mali

Thomkal · 04-06-2009, 06:28 AM

The comp is now up! If you questions about comps in general, feel free to post here, otherwise post in the comp thread I just started. Please let me know there if you'd like me to post the range of "gifts" our demon patron may visit on us or not.

03-30-2009, 01:48 PM	#2
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	Man, I had never veen herad of Z+ until now........awesome! __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

03-30-2009, 01:51 PM	#3
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	Oh man, I'm reading about that, and I had forgotten about Greater Hell Beasts. Awesome! __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

03-30-2009, 02:41 PM	#5
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	I love this list! I love almost everything there. What I do not like are dedicated spell users not being able to know all of the spells for their genre. If I am playing a mage, and the only thing I can do is cast spells, I'd better know a bunch of spells. __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

03-30-2009, 03:39 PM	#10
path12 Coordinator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	Z? Now c'mon fellas, I just got back on the Angband train..... __________________ We have always been at war with Eastasia.

03-30-2009, 03:46 PM	#11
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	WTF? The wilderness is awesome. I still remember getting the Kill Cthulhu quest in Zangband and having to find where Rl'yeh had raised up from the depths, fight through a bunch of ancient ones and deep ones, and then kill Cthulhu himself. Awesome! Zangband is so much better than Angband, and IF Z+ is better than that, with all of the things that made Z so good.... __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

03-30-2009, 03:14 PM	#6
thesloppy Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: PDX	I'll most definitely give whatever you come up with a try, but I can't offer much help/ideas, as I haven't played around with Z (or Z+ for that matter) in years. I most like the idea of everbody playing the same character (as many times as they want) and seeing who gets the furthest, but they all sound fun.

03-30-2009, 03:27 PM	#8
Thomkal Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA	would probably want to play with the wilderness off too-which would be a shame with Z+ with the changes they have made in it with farms and quests and such.

03-30-2009, 03:34 PM	#9
Thomkal Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA	heh was playtesting a Beastman ChaosWarrior and got turned into a Half-Giant which actually caused me to lose the level I just gained when I got turned into a Half-Giant. They don't call them ChaosWarriors for nothing.

03-30-2009, 03:47 PM	#12
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	I also totally dug quest levels. I made them every other level. You must kill 20 Jackals. And then a staircase didn't pop out until you finished your quest. But, you got an XP bonus so it made leveling easier. __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

03-30-2009, 03:55 PM	#13
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	Too bad I had lost my files with my laptop a year ago. I had on there that I had made to Angband. For example, I moved Hydras to "x" and introduced the Mewlip race, including Swamp Mewlips, Forest Mewlips, uniques, and so forth. I also made a bunch more amulets, because I feel that the amulet slot is underused. I added Amulet of Telepathy and Amulet of Sustain All Stats and more. Anyway, it was cool. __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

03-31-2009, 01:13 AM	#21
Lonnie High School Varsity Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Midlothian, TX	I'd be up for a play along. I've been playing a lot of Crawl lately, so will take me a bit to readjust to *band interface and commands. __________________ Lonnie

03-31-2009, 02:21 PM	#22
JAG Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: St. Paul, MN	I'd be interested. It was fun when we did it a while back. I think version two was with beastman chaoswarriors which was a blast with all the craziness from mutations / chaos patron rewards. Also, nice tip on Z+, I hadn't heard of it either. Sounds like he's made some good updates.

03-31-2009, 09:32 PM	#23
Thomkal Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA	Well it sounds like we might have enough people to give it a try. Most seem to like the idea of a beastman chaos-warrior. I would probably generate one for the competition since the various demon patrons can vary on the "gifts" they can give. I'll try to get one that doesn't polymorph much. Z+Angband seems to be the popular choice, but I still worry that it might be too much for newbies given the differences. Especially if we keep the wilderness in play. In any case, I think we could have a "getting-used" period (a week?) before the comp started so people could get used to the game and race/class. How long do we want the comp to last? 2 weeks? a month? With the winner being who gets the highest level character? Since its the first comp, we should probably allow "do-overs" only submitting the highest level character at the end. So you'd not be able to "cheat-death" and continue on with the character if he dies, just start a new one. Everybody cool with just posting the final character dump to determine the winner or would you feel more comfortable with sending the character file to me to verify that it's a legal entry? I'd like to think we don't have anybody that desperate to cheat on a roguelike comp though.

03-31-2009, 09:45 PM	#24
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	Fine by me __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

04-02-2009, 02:00 PM	#25
Thomkal Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA	well other than Abe not seeing any chatter about this idea, so how about starting the Comp on Monday and lasting for two weeks? I would create a character for us all to use to be posted on Monday. Any objections? Any newbie want more time? Any questions about Z+Angband that need to be answered before the comp?

04-02-2009, 03:16 PM	#26
path12 Coordinator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	I'm tentatively in, but not sure yet so I haven't said anything. Having a blast getting back into Angband and have only tried Z once a few years back...... __________________ We have always been at war with Eastasia.

04-05-2009, 08:33 AM	#29
Malificent High School JV Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Durham, NC, USA	I'm in for this. __________________ Check out my Flickr photos.

04-05-2009, 09:27 AM	#30
Thomkal Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA	Glad to have you Mali!

04-05-2009, 09:04 PM	#33
Thomkal Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA	It should go in the lib/save folder I think.

04-05-2009, 09:17 PM	#34
Thomkal Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA	Also, I looked in the chaos patron spoilers to find a more "friendly" patron. Thus I know which "gifts" he can give and which he will not. I will post these in the Competition Thread tomorrow if you feel I should in the name of fairness.

04-05-2009, 09:55 PM	#35
Malificent High School JV Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Durham, NC, USA	This pulled up a level 10 Hobbit Rogue Robber with 1852 gold in the middle of a dungeon. Good? __________________ Check out my Flickr photos.

04-05-2009, 10:04 PM	#36
Thomkal Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA	Yep that worked. Thanks Mali

04-06-2009, 06:28 AM	#37
Thomkal Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA	The comp is now up! If you questions about comps in general, feel free to post here, otherwise post in the comp thread I just started. Please let me know there if you'd like me to post the range of "gifts" our demon patron may visit on us or not.

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