Grr US-Brazil not televised?

JAG · 07-23-2003, 05:27 PM

Man, semi-finals of the Gold Cup against the defending World Cup champs (albeit their under-23 team) and it doesn't appear to be on tonight...

henry296 · 07-23-2003, 05:28 PM

It will be on DirecTV channel 404 at 8 PM EST.

Todd

MrBug708 · 07-23-2003, 05:33 PM

Galavision (Spanish)

JAG · 07-23-2003, 07:23 PM

Darn, Telemundo and two other Spanish networks aren't showing it...anyone have an update if they get a chance?

henry296 · 07-23-2003, 07:26 PM

0-0 through 20 minutes

JAG · 07-23-2003, 07:40 PM

Thank ya henry

JeffNights · 07-23-2003, 08:06 PM

Ok this under 23 has the wonder=kid on it?

henry296 · 07-23-2003, 08:29 PM

GOAL!!!!!!

US scores in the ~62 minute on a header by Bocanegra off a free kick from Reyna. Brazil though has been dominating the game and Keller is standing on his head.

Todd

JAG · 07-23-2003, 08:30 PM

Wow...hope we can hold on.

SteelerFan448 · 07-23-2003, 08:39 PM

I thought it'd be on ESPN, instead we get that other exciting sport on...baseball.

Tekneek · 07-23-2003, 08:48 PM

Apparently the english language rights were either never bought, or some people tell me the US "English" rights to it were never even offered at any price.

MJ4H · 07-23-2003, 08:55 PM

daedalus · 07-23-2003, 09:05 PM

For a team that flops and whines, Brazil does a wonderful job of thugging.

They were getting crazy amounts of clear run on that defense, though. Yeesh.

Tekneek · 07-23-2003, 09:23 PM

Yeah, and it is over. I've never seen somebody handball like that in a real game, only in CM commentary. Of course, if he did not handball, it would've been over even earlier. There was some chance that Keller was going to stop that PK.

I have not kept up with this tournament at all. Was Friedel not with the team? Or Arena just decided to let Keller have this tournament?

JAG · 07-23-2003, 09:29 PM

Darn...ah well, sounds like we put up a good fight.

tucker342 · 07-23-2003, 09:31 PM

So what was the final? 1-1?

I'll take a tie against Brazil...

JAG · 07-23-2003, 09:34 PM

2-1 Brazil, won it in the 100th minute on a PK

MrBug708 · 07-24-2003, 02:33 AM

PK was on a hand ball that would have gone in the goal anyways

Arena gave Friedal the Cup off to recover from the Premier League. That's all I know

condors · 07-24-2003, 07:51 AM

Friedal also had surgery a few weeks ago but Kellar is not to blame he is a class keeper

henry296 · 07-24-2003, 08:37 AM

Keller had an outstanding game and made the initial save on both goals, Brazil just beat the US to the rebound.

Also, Brazil was making those runs through the defense all game, nut just in the last 10 minutes. In my opinion, they were the better team last night.

Todd

bamcgee · 07-24-2003, 10:56 AM

it was the Brazil under 23s though, right? Just shows how much work the US has ahead of it to compete with world-class squads.

MylesKnight · 07-24-2003, 10:59 AM

Very disappointed to see Fox Sports World not covering the Gold Cup.. I mean they've got the Champions World Tour, why not this event as well?

I guess they had to get that extra helping of Dream Team in there though.

RPI-Fan · 07-24-2003, 02:17 PM

That was actually a hell of a play by Gibbs. To know that the ball was going in, and make that split second decision was very smart.

Otherwise, the U.S. would have done better with Friedel. He's just more intimidating than Keller - those guys wouldn't be so confident in on goal like that.

Additionally, I don't get the feeling the U.S. had their absolute 100% best team out there. And, plus, right now, we're in the process of developing a lot of our stars. I wouldn't look at this game as a disappointment, instead a benchmark for the fact that we can put up a fight vs. a quality team.

~rpi-fan

MrBug708 · 07-24-2003, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Otherwise, the U.S. would have done better with Friedel. He's just more intimidating than Keller - those guys wouldn't be so confident in on goal like that.

I dont think there would have been much different of an outcome. How many times has Friedal faced Brazil and not beaten them? I think the differences between Keller and Friedal are pretty small. Friedal had a great World Cup, but he wasn't on Oliver Kahn level. His two blocked PK's were amazing, but Kevin Hartman is a great PK blocker as well. Friedal most likely will be the next starter in the WC, if he still can play in 3 more years, but it won't be handed to him, he'll just have more of a benefit of a doubt. Remember, O'brien gets called for the handball, you might be looking at a 1-1 game.

daedalus · 07-24-2003, 03:31 PM

Anybody short of whoever your favourite deity might be would not have made a difference. I only saw the last 30 minutes but, as henry said, they were making runs after runs right by the defense. If Keller hadn't played as well as he did, it would've been ugly.

The attacking unit were mostly first teamers. Reyna is back, what's-his-name was back at forward before he was hurt, Donovan is still there. Maybe the guy that's playing in Holland is missing from the team. They did not so hideously bad. The defense looked horribly bad. It looked like Brazil were holding a track meet out there in the brief part that I saw. Granted Pope is out and I'm not sure why Senneh wasn't there but this is their U-23 and it would've been nice to not be so well thrashed. Yes, I'm aware the score was 2-1 but it looked worse to me.

henry296 · 07-24-2003, 03:42 PM

It was mostly first teamers except Beasley who was a late sub and John O'Brien (the guy who plays in Holland). Also, Chris Armas wasn't playing. I think he is hurt again.

Todd

RPI-Fan · 07-24-2003, 04:10 PM

I didn't see the match, so I can't comment as much on this specific match as I can in general.

Friedel is a much, much more effective keeper than Keller, IMO. For one, he actuallys helps the offense with his distributions. More significant though, is his imposing figure in the net. Keller is fundamentally sound, but just doesn't have that Kahn-ish aura that Friedel does. And the question about whether Friedel will be ready in 3 years is a complete joke. He's only now nearing or hitting the peak of his career. And the falloff for keepers tends to be very slow. He's leaps and bounds our best keeper right now, and it'll take a big improvement by Howard (the only guy who can catch him, IMO) to challenge him for the WC spot.

Oh, and if they'd called the handball on the Germans what's-his-face, THAT game very well might have ended 1-1.

~rpi-fan

MrBug708 · 07-24-2003, 04:45 PM

While I agree that Keller doesn't have the "awe" as you call it, that Friedal has, against the Under 23 team for Brazil, would that have mattered?

I also wasn't implying that Freidal is done by any stretch, but you can never tell in sports.

Leaps and Bounds better? If he was so much better than Keller, why did he have to fight out Keller for the starting job in last year's World Cup. Until the WC even started, we didn't know who the starting GK was going to be.

daedalus · 07-24-2003, 06:37 PM

A couple of things . . .

1) We're not exactly talking about a drop from Peter Schmeichel to Joe Smith from the YMCA here. If I understand correctly, Friedel won one of the EPL's end of season awards and Keller won another.

2) I'll admit my soccer ignorance probably hinders me here since I don't know very much but perhaps one of the more soccer knowledgable person can tell me how Friedel could've stopped Brazil's attackers from making US defenders look like Elvis Patterson. I know that a good keeper will direct the defense but I'm having a tough time grasping how Friedel can explain to his defenders the concept of a give-and-go (at least that'd be the basketball-equivalent of what they did, I don't know the soccer name) 30 yards away from goal.

MIJB#19 · 07-25-2003, 07:05 AM

Daedalus, I know this is off topic, but I read Bergkamp signed a 1-year deal with Arsenal for the 2003/2004 season.

I read that John O'Brien is recovering from injuries.
He's missing the Ajax training camp in England.
However, there is good news for him too, as his new jersey number (5 in stead of 18) means he's considered a starting 11 player for Ajax next season.
Of course, he was already concidered as a key member of the team by the Ajax coach (Ronald Koeman), but this should be seen as big news, as in the Ajax culture jersey numbers tell your role on the team.

condors · 07-25-2003, 07:37 AM

the problem was friedel had eddie pope and carlos llamosa 2 guys who see the game very well and will be much better postioned when brazil is bringing everyone forward

both teams were using players projected for the 2006 world cup and it shows some of our young guys need more time to get ready for the world cup

MrBug708 · 07-25-2003, 08:53 AM

MIJB, does that mean he's going to be either a Ledt Midfielder or defensive MF right?

daedalus · 07-25-2003, 04:48 PM

RE: Bergkamp . . . YES, HE DID! 'Bout darn time, too. I know money is tight but that's no way to treat a long time and loyal player.

RE: O'Brien #5 . . . I was always under the impression that 5 was central defender in the numbering scheme? O'Brien is midfield, isn't he?

MrBug708 · 07-25-2003, 04:53 PM

Well, GK is one. Depending on the formation you play, he could be a defender or a defensive MF. Of course, he always played Left Midfield in my schemes.

BishopMVP · 07-25-2003, 06:15 PM

Did Bocanegra play on Defense? He seems to be an up and comer, with Pope being the other good young defensemen. It seems most of our young talent is at forward/wing right now.

MrBug708 · 07-25-2003, 06:56 PM

Bocanegra was DMC with Reyna

MIJB#19 · 07-29-2003, 04:38 AM

sorry for the late reply on the O'Brien story.

Ajax uses the following numbers:

1 = goalkeeper
2 = right back
3 = central defender
4 = defensive midfielder
5 = left back
6 = right midfielder
7 = right winger
8 = left midfielder
9 = striker
10 = attacking midfielder
11 = left winger

sure, he's "just" a left back, but with a fromer world's best central defender as the coach, do you really think defenders are under appreciated?
Especially as O'Brien (26?) is the veteran starter on defense now.

daedalus · 07-29-2003, 05:57 PM

Interesting number scheme.

I'm not sure what you mean by "just" a left back. Playing is playing and you play where you're told. My surprise at O'Brien at left stems from the fact that Arena played him in the midfield a lot during the WC.

MIJB#19 · 07-30-2003, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by daedalus
Interesting number scheme.

I'm not sure what you mean by "just" a left back. Playing is playing and you play where you're told. My surprise at O'Brien at left stems from the fact that Arena played him in the midfield a lot during the WC.

that's my thinking too.
However, a year ago I posted a thread about O'Brien and Ajax winning the Dutch league and some replies were like: he's not a key player, it's not interesting. Only strikers and attacking midfielders are important players. Of course, this was before the Hattrick virus caught the FOFC scene...
It takes some knowledge about soccer, especially about Dutch soocer to understand the true value of the achievement.

About the numbering scheme, I have no idea why it is set up this way, almost 99% of the rest of the world has 3 and 5 switched, has 6 as a second central defender called sweeper (something Dutch teams don't play with).

07-23-2003, 05:28 PM	#2
henry296 College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	It will be on DirecTV channel 404 at 8 PM EST. Todd __________________ "It's a great day for hockey" - "Badger" Bob Johnson

07-23-2003, 08:29 PM	#8
henry296 College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	GOAL!!!!!! US scores in the ~62 minute on a header by Bocanegra off a free kick from Reyna. Brazil though has been dominating the game and Keller is standing on his head. Todd __________________ "It's a great day for hockey" - "Badger" Bob Johnson

07-23-2003, 08:39 PM	#10
SteelerFan448 High School JV Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Steeler Country	I thought it'd be on ESPN, instead we get that other exciting sport on...baseball. __________________ "Yoi!"-Myron Cope

07-23-2003, 08:55 PM	#12
MJ4H Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hog Country	1-1 Last edited by MJ4H : 07-23-2003 at 08:55 PM.

07-24-2003, 08:37 AM	#20
henry296 College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	Keller had an outstanding game and made the initial save on both goals, Brazil just beat the US to the rebound. Also, Brazil was making those runs through the defense all game, nut just in the last 10 minutes. In my opinion, they were the better team last night. Todd __________________ "It's a great day for hockey" - "Badger" Bob Johnson

07-23-2003, 05:33 PM	#3
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Galavision (Spanish)

07-23-2003, 07:26 PM	#5
henry296 College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	0-0 through 20 minutes __________________ "It's a great day for hockey" - "Badger" Bob Johnson

07-23-2003, 07:40 PM	#6
JAG Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: St. Paul, MN	Thank ya henry

07-23-2003, 08:06 PM	#7
JeffNights College Prospect Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Michigan	Ok this under 23 has the wonder=kid on it?

07-23-2003, 08:30 PM	#9
JAG Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: St. Paul, MN	Wow...hope we can hold on.

07-23-2003, 08:48 PM	#11
Tekneek Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: USA	Apparently the english language rights were either never bought, or some people tell me the US "English" rights to it were never even offered at any price.

07-23-2003, 09:05 PM	#13
daedalus Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	For a team that flops and whines, Brazil does a wonderful job of thugging. They were getting crazy amounts of clear run on that defense, though. Yeesh.

07-23-2003, 09:23 PM	#14
Tekneek Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: USA	Yeah, and it is over. I've never seen somebody handball like that in a real game, only in CM commentary. Of course, if he did not handball, it would've been over even earlier. There was some chance that Keller was going to stop that PK. I have not kept up with this tournament at all. Was Friedel not with the team? Or Arena just decided to let Keller have this tournament?

07-23-2003, 09:31 PM	#16
tucker342 Pro Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Iowa City, IA	So what was the final? 1-1? I'll take a tie against Brazil...

07-23-2003, 09:34 PM	#17
JAG Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: St. Paul, MN	2-1 Brazil, won it in the 100th minute on a PK

07-24-2003, 02:33 AM	#18
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	PK was on a hand ball that would have gone in the goal anyways Arena gave Friedal the Cup off to recover from the Premier League. That's all I know

07-24-2003, 07:51 AM	#19
condors College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Friedal also had surgery a few weeks ago but Kellar is not to blame he is a class keeper

07-24-2003, 10:56 AM	#21
bamcgee High School JV Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: San Francisco, CA	it was the Brazil under 23s though, right? Just shows how much work the US has ahead of it to compete with world-class squads.

07-24-2003, 10:59 AM	#22
MylesKnight College Benchwarmer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Neptune Beach, Florida	Very disappointed to see Fox Sports World not covering the Gold Cup.. I mean they've got the Champions World Tour, why not this event as well? I guess they had to get that extra helping of Dream Team in there though. __________________ IT'S ALL ABOUT THE BLACK & GOLD!! Last edited by MylesKnight : 07-24-2003 at 11:00 AM.

07-24-2003, 02:17 PM	#23
RPI-Fan Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Troy, NY	That was actually a hell of a play by Gibbs. To know that the ball was going in, and make that split second decision was very smart. Otherwise, the U.S. would have done better with Friedel. He's just more intimidating than Keller - those guys wouldn't be so confident in on goal like that. Additionally, I don't get the feeling the U.S. had their absolute 100% best team out there. And, plus, right now, we're in the process of developing a lot of our stars. I wouldn't look at this game as a disappointment, instead a benchmark for the fact that we can put up a fight vs. a quality team. ~rpi-fan __________________ Quis custodiets ipsos custodes?

07-24-2003, 03:31 PM	#25
daedalus Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	Anybody short of whoever your favourite deity might be would not have made a difference. I only saw the last 30 minutes but, as henry said, they were making runs after runs right by the defense. If Keller hadn't played as well as he did, it would've been ugly. The attacking unit were mostly first teamers. Reyna is back, what's-his-name was back at forward before he was hurt, Donovan is still there. Maybe the guy that's playing in Holland is missing from the team. They did not so hideously bad. The defense looked horribly bad. It looked like Brazil were holding a track meet out there in the brief part that I saw. Granted Pope is out and I'm not sure why Senneh wasn't there but this is their U-23 and it would've been nice to not be so well thrashed. Yes, I'm aware the score was 2-1 but it looked worse to me.

07-24-2003, 03:42 PM	#26
henry296 College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	It was mostly first teamers except Beasley who was a late sub and John O'Brien (the guy who plays in Holland). Also, Chris Armas wasn't playing. I think he is hurt again. Todd __________________ "It's a great day for hockey" - "Badger" Bob Johnson

07-24-2003, 04:10 PM	#27
RPI-Fan Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Troy, NY	I didn't see the match, so I can't comment as much on this specific match as I can in general. Friedel is a much, much more effective keeper than Keller, IMO. For one, he actuallys helps the offense with his distributions. More significant though, is his imposing figure in the net. Keller is fundamentally sound, but just doesn't have that Kahn-ish aura that Friedel does. And the question about whether Friedel will be ready in 3 years is a complete joke. He's only now nearing or hitting the peak of his career. And the falloff for keepers tends to be very slow. He's leaps and bounds our best keeper right now, and it'll take a big improvement by Howard (the only guy who can catch him, IMO) to challenge him for the WC spot. Oh, and if they'd called the handball on the Germans what's-his-face, THAT game very well might have ended 1-1. ~rpi-fan __________________ Quis custodiets ipsos custodes?

07-24-2003, 04:45 PM	#28
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	While I agree that Keller doesn't have the "awe" as you call it, that Friedal has, against the Under 23 team for Brazil, would that have mattered? I also wasn't implying that Freidal is done by any stretch, but you can never tell in sports. Leaps and Bounds better? If he was so much better than Keller, why did he have to fight out Keller for the starting job in last year's World Cup. Until the WC even started, we didn't know who the starting GK was going to be.

07-24-2003, 06:37 PM	#29
daedalus Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	A couple of things . . . 1) We're not exactly talking about a drop from Peter Schmeichel to Joe Smith from the YMCA here. If I understand correctly, Friedel won one of the EPL's end of season awards and Keller won another. 2) I'll admit my soccer ignorance probably hinders me here since I don't know very much but perhaps one of the more soccer knowledgable person can tell me how Friedel could've stopped Brazil's attackers from making US defenders look like Elvis Patterson. I know that a good keeper will direct the defense but I'm having a tough time grasping how Friedel can explain to his defenders the concept of a give-and-go (at least that'd be the basketball-equivalent of what they did, I don't know the soccer name) 30 yards away from goal.

07-25-2003, 07:05 AM	#30
MIJB#19 Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands	Daedalus, I know this is off topic, but I read Bergkamp signed a 1-year deal with Arsenal for the 2003/2004 season. I read that John O'Brien is recovering from injuries. He's missing the Ajax training camp in England. However, there is good news for him too, as his new jersey number (5 in stead of 18) means he's considered a starting 11 player for Ajax next season. Of course, he was already concidered as a key member of the team by the Ajax coach (Ronald Koeman), but this should be seen as big news, as in the Ajax culture jersey numbers tell your role on the team.

07-25-2003, 07:37 AM	#31
condors College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	the problem was friedel had eddie pope and carlos llamosa 2 guys who see the game very well and will be much better postioned when brazil is bringing everyone forward both teams were using players projected for the 2006 world cup and it shows some of our young guys need more time to get ready for the world cup

07-25-2003, 08:53 AM	#32
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	MIJB, does that mean he's going to be either a Ledt Midfielder or defensive MF right?

07-25-2003, 04:48 PM	#33
daedalus Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	RE: Bergkamp . . . YES, HE DID! 'Bout darn time, too. I know money is tight but that's no way to treat a long time and loyal player. RE: O'Brien #5 . . . I was always under the impression that 5 was central defender in the numbering scheme? O'Brien is midfield, isn't he?

07-25-2003, 04:53 PM	#34
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Well, GK is one. Depending on the formation you play, he could be a defender or a defensive MF. Of course, he always played Left Midfield in my schemes.

07-25-2003, 06:15 PM	#35
BishopMVP Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Concord, MA/UMass	Did Bocanegra play on Defense? He seems to be an up and comer, with Pope being the other good young defensemen. It seems most of our young talent is at forward/wing right now.

07-25-2003, 06:56 PM	#36
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Bocanegra was DMC with Reyna

07-29-2003, 04:38 AM	#37
MIJB#19 Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands	sorry for the late reply on the O'Brien story. Ajax uses the following numbers: 1 = goalkeeper 2 = right back 3 = central defender 4 = defensive midfielder 5 = left back 6 = right midfielder 7 = right winger 8 = left midfielder 9 = striker 10 = attacking midfielder 11 = left winger sure, he's "just" a left back, but with a fromer world's best central defender as the coach, do you really think defenders are under appreciated? Especially as O'Brien (26?) is the veteran starter on defense now.

07-29-2003, 05:57 PM	#38
daedalus Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	Interesting number scheme. I'm not sure what you mean by "just" a left back. Playing is playing and you play where you're told. My surprise at O'Brien at left stems from the fact that Arena played him in the midfield a lot during the WC.

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