Which soccer management game is worth getting?

[ColtCrazy]

I'm going to England the day after Thanksgiving to visit family for a week. I'm thinking of picking up a management game over there since the last version I got was 2006. I've only ever played Football Manager and what I've read about it looks good. Has anyone played any others or should I stick to the old reliable? Thanks!!

[DaddyTorgo]

FOOTBALL MANAGER 2009 - END OF DISCUSSION!!!!

[SackAttack]

WSM 08 is $15.97 on Amazon if your computer can't handle WSM/FM 09. Otherwise, DT's got the right of it.

[DaddyTorgo]

although honestly if the $ is a concern you're better off getting WWSM on this end of the pond rather than paying the price over there...

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

FOOTBALL MANAGER 2009 - END OF DISCUSSION!!!!

I think he said soccer, not football.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

FOOTBALL MANAGER 2009 - END OF DISCUSSION!!!!

No its NOT the end of the discussion, be fair FM2009 isn't the only choice available.

I'd personally recommend also getting Football Manager Handheld 2009 on PSP

[samifan24]

Football Manager or Worldwide Soccer Manager (same game/different name). All other soccer management games pale in comparison.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I'd personally recommend also getting Football Manager Handheld 2009 on PSP

Whore.

[GrantDawg]

I want a pony.

[Mac Howard]

The trouble with the soccer management community is that it's as tribal as the real-world game. The contributors to this site belong to the FM tribe

There are at least three others:

Championship Manager 2008 which is similar to FM in style and presentation

FIFA Manager 09 from EA which is much more graphics oriented (and not as simplistic or unrealistic as some would have you believe)

Sick as a Parrot 2009 (my own game) which takes much more of a role-playing approach to the management idea

All four games have their advocates who will tell you that the others are not worth playing

Web site with demos:

FM: http://www.sigames.com/
CM: http://www.championshipmanager.co.uk/
FIFA: http://www.electronicarts.co.uk/games/11377,pccd/
SaaP: http://www.machoward.com

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I had fun playing SaAP a few years back. Might try to get back into that one.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

All four games have their advocates who will tell you that the others are not worth playing

I'd always recommend that people play the demo's of all games then get the ones they enjoy most, that could be none, one or more of those available.

PS- Mac did you see Football Director is coming out of the DS soon, have always been surprised you have tried to move SAAP onto that sort of platform to be honest ...

[Oilers9911]

One-Nil, the game that got me into career and football management sims.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

The trouble with the soccer management community is that it's as tribal as the real-world game. The contributors to this site belong to the FM tribe

There are at least three others:

Championship Manager 2008 which is similar to FM in style and presentation

FIFA Manager 09 from EA which is much more graphics oriented (and not as simplistic or unrealistic as some would have you believe)

Sick as a Parrot 2009 (my own game) which takes much more of a role-playing approach to the management idea

All four games have their advocates who will tell you that the others are not worth playing

Web site with demos:

FM: Sports Interactive - The developers of the Football Manager series
CM: http://www.championshipmanager.co.uk/
FIFA: http://www.electronicarts.co.uk/games/11377,pccd/
SaaP: Sick As A Parrot, SaaP - a soccer management game and football management game for the PC

Championship Manager: Bunk. It's like kissing your sister. Basically it's the result of a nasty divorce between the FM-gents and Eidos with (as I understand it) Eidos essentially keeping the rights to the code for whichever version was in production (CM4 maybe?) and the FM gents taking off on their own. Seems just from a quick perusal of the website that FM's pace of evolution has so far outstripped CM that CM is like "FM-lite" (still using a 2d match engine, boasting about how the match engine now includes "overlapping runs and one-two passes")
EA's Game: Honestly I've never given FIFA a try. But if there's actually a demo on that website I certainly will - at least out of curiosity. Always wanted to.
Saap - I enjoyed. Actually should try to get back into, thanks for reminding me Mac. It's a different intensity of game I might say, but certainly enjoyable.

[PilotMan]

I have been a player of both CM and SaaP for a while now. I actually found SaaP before I found CM (now FM). I have played FM more, but I still follow Mac's development of SaaP regularly. I was lucky enough to be grandfathered in to his current series. Which basically means that I get to keep enjoying his great game.

Thanks Mac.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I'd personally recommend also getting Football Manager Handheld 2009 on PSP

I am confused as to whether this is available in the US.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

FOOTBALL MANAGER 2009 - END OF DISCUSSION!!!!

+1 here

Though I have to say SAAP is a great game as well if you are interested in a bit more of a role playing element.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Samdari

I am confused as to whether this is available in the US.

Don't believe there is a region lock, so you can import without issues if you need to do so.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

The trouble with the soccer management community is that it's as tribal as the real-world game. The contributors to this site belong to the FM tribe

There are at least three others:

Championship Manager 2008 which is similar to FM in style and presentation

FIFA Manager 09 from EA which is much more graphics oriented (and not as simplistic or unrealistic as some would have you believe)

Sick as a Parrot 2009 (my own game) which takes much more of a role-playing approach to the management idea

All four games have their advocates who will tell you that the others are not worth playing

Web site with demos:

FM: Sports Interactive - The developers of the Football Manager series
CM: http://www.championshipmanager.co.uk/
FIFA: http://www.electronicarts.co.uk/games/11377,pccd/
SaaP: Sick As A Parrot, SaaP - a soccer management game and football management game for the PC

I was always a CM fan before the split, and thought that until FM2009 (so far anyway!) the FM series was an ever diminishing series. However, once I had tried the latest FM, even if was not to my taste, playing the other games just made me realise I wanted many of the features of FM that were not in the other games - the reason I didn;t like the previous FMs is that they didn't really work properly.

So far from what I have seen the FM09 features do seem to on the whole work pretty well: confidence seems to be working better, the finances and board controls are (frustatingly!) tighter in my Welling career, but this is better than the complete laissez faire attitude of previous versions.

The post-split CM shows promise, but (from CM08) the player ratings are horribly overrated and there is a massive degree of randomness.

Of the others I had played I would actually recommend FIFA from the 08 demo - it has it's faults but is not trying to be an FM clone like CM, and it has it's own niche because of that.

SaaP has a different take altogether, but I personally find the look and feel of the program very difficult to get past. For me it has a very dated GUI (no transfer list sorting and minimal filtering is a big, big problem for me), and the general look of the program (especially in the match display), simplicity of the screens (especially the tactics) make it very difficult to believe that there is a high spec match engine underneath. However I do really like the idea of non-numerical ratings.

I honestly believe that SaaP would work so much better if there were not the 1980's display of the formations, just numbers, possession bars, etc - as I imagine Jim has decided, a graphical representation of play is only worth it if it is done well: 2D top down is fine, 3D fantastic, but simple text and/or numbers are far better than a side on version of the original ZX Spectrum Football Manager graphics.

But as people have said, try all of the demos, see what you like - this is what I did last year and worked out I didn't like any of 'em! FM09 is my choice this year, simply because it does a lot more of what it says on the tin than previous versions, and does it pretty well.

[DaddyTorgo]

thanks for the breakdown Jari - I'll have to give FIFA a look just for the sake of giving it a try - i doubt it is in the budget.

I agree with what you said about SaaP, although perhaps the interface doesn't bother me as much as it bothers you -- i LOVE the non-numerical ratings - that to me almost singlehandedly makes the game.

[Flasch186]

soccer cards

[ColtCrazy]

Thanks for the demo links Mac. Now, who can give me an excuse of why I'm "testing" soccer management games on Thanksgiving, the day before I leave my wife and kids for a week? I'll be sure to check them all out. My dad plays them too, but never got into FM like I did. He likes a lighter game to play since he plays in short spurts. FA looks like that might fit the bill.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

One-Nil, the game that got me into career and football management sims.

As simple as it was, that still might be my favorite game ever. Played the crap out of it in high school and college. It and Civilization. I still remember taking Plymouth from the third division to the premiership in 12 seasons.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Championship Manager: Bunk. It's like kissing your sister. Basically it's the result of a nasty divorce between the FM-gents and Eidos with (as I understand it) Eidos essentially keeping the rights to the code for whichever version was in production (CM4 maybe?) and the FM gents taking off on their own. Seems just from a quick perusal of the website that FM's pace of evolution has so far outstripped CM that CM is like "FM-lite" (still using a 2d match engine, boasting about how the match engine now includes "overlapping runs and one-two passes")

To be fair to the CM game, Daddy Togo, it is still the 2008 version - the 2009 not available until May of next year as far as I can see - and FM 2008 also had a 2D graphics match display. So it really needs to be compared to FM2008 and, in my view, there isn't a lot of difference.

My understanding, I'm sure Marc will correct me if I'm wrong, is that SIGames kept the code of the original CM series and Eidos kept the name. The Eidos team then designed their own game but it is obvious that they set out to use CM as the template. Consequently they are similar games - it wouldn't surprise me if you don't see a 3D depiction in CM2009 as well.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

To be fair to the CM game, Daddy Togo, it is still the 2008 version - the 2009 not available until May of next year as far as I can see - and FM 2008 also had a 2D graphics match display. So it really needs to be compared to FM2008 and, in my view, there isn't a lot of difference.

My understanding, I'm sure Marc will correct me if I'm wrong, is that SIGames kept the code of the original CM series and Eidos kept the name. The Eidos team then designed their own game but it is obvious that they set out to use CM as the template. Consequently they are similar games - it wouldn't surprise me if you don't see a 3D depiction in CM2009 as well.

I thought I was looking at the feature set for CM 2009? But maybe I was mistaken...

[MJ4H]

Sigh, does anyone know if the featureset for the demo of fifa manager 08 excludes the 3d viewing mode or if it too just doesn't like my hardware?

[astrosfan64]

I like all the games mentioned above except for Champ Manager.

The EA game does a good job of presentation and gameday, but their MLS implementation sucks.

I don't like their skill/attribute system as much either.

I wish we could get the FM engine with EA's graphics.

Though FM is on the right track with their new 3d engine.

OH and Saap is in a league of its own. Very unique and fun experience, though the interface is a bit blah. Overall, I say get this game just to support Mac's vision.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I thought I was looking at the feature set for CM 2009? But maybe I was mistaken...

It's another 6 months before CM2009 comes out. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if, having seen FM's 3D display, they work one into CM before release

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Sigh, does anyone know if the featureset for the demo of fifa manager 08 excludes the 3d viewing mode or if it too just doesn't like my hardware?

I'll assume that's a typo and you really mean FM 2009. If so, the demo does include the 3D mode but you can disable it in favor of the standard 2D mode. You should at least see the option to do this on the preferences screen regardless of whether your computer can handle 3D mode or not.

[MJ4H]

It was not a typo, I meant fifa manager 08. The one linked to in post #10.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

To be fair to the CM game, Daddy Togo, it is still the 2008 version - the 2009 not available until May of next year as far as I can see - and FM 2008 also had a 2D graphics match display. So it really needs to be compared to FM2008 and, in my view, there isn't a lot of difference.

My understanding, I'm sure Marc will correct me if I'm wrong, is that SIGames kept the code of the original CM series and Eidos kept the name. The Eidos team then designed their own game but it is obvious that they set out to use CM as the template. Consequently they are similar games - it wouldn't surprise me if you don't see a 3D depiction in CM2009 as well.

You are correct the game which was CM03-04 evolved into being Football Manager 2005 while Eidos wrote CM5 from scratch.

As an aside there's a leaked youtube video kicking around which seems to imply that yes CM2009 will have a 3d view. In terms of fairness however I would like to indicate that it takes a LOT longer than 6 months to make a 3d view and I'd expect that their developing one had nothing to do with FM implementing one.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

soccer cards

If you mean the game of that name - its actually very cool imho (abeit rather aged now) and I'd love to see it updated myself.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Samdari

I am confused as to whether this is available in the US.

This isn't for sale in America at present I'm afraid (as far as I'm aware) - however the game (and all PSP games for that matter) isn't region locked so you'd be fine to import it.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

The trouble with the soccer management community is that it's as tribal as the real-world game. The contributors to this site belong to the FM tribe

There are at least three others:

Championship Manager 2008 which is similar to FM in style and presentation

FIFA Manager 09 from EA which is much more graphics oriented (and not as simplistic or unrealistic as some would have you believe)

Sick as a Parrot 2009 (my own game) which takes much more of a role-playing approach to the management idea

All four games have their advocates who will tell you that the others are not worth playing

Web site with demos:

FM: Sports Interactive - The developers of the Football Manager series
CM: http://www.championshipmanager.co.uk/
FIFA: http://www.electronicarts.co.uk/games/11377,pccd/
SaaP: Sick As A Parrot, SaaP - a soccer management game and football management game for the PC

An apology is due

I was looking at the hit counters on my web site and was puzzled when I saw 110 hits linked from here but only 20 of them went on to download the demo. That didn't make a lot of sense to me.

However, working on my site (currently being redesigned), I realised that the demo link is down at the bottom of the home page - perfectly visible on my monitor. But then it is a 1650 x 1080 monitor. A quick calculation told me that the demo button is some 800 pixels down the screen. Which means that those with 800 x 600 and even possibly those with 1024 x 768 screens probably wouldn't see the link.

So my apologies if you went to the site for the demo and came away scratching your head as to how you were supposed to get one. I've added a second link higher up the page if you still want a demo.

Sorry about that. How easy it is to make a simple but crucial mistake with this stuff.

Incidentally any comments along the lines of "The web page would be improved if you ......." would be appreciated.

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

You are correct the game which was CM03-04 evolved into being Football Manager 2005 while Eidos wrote CM5 from scratch.

As an aside there's a leaked youtube video kicking around which seems to imply that yes CM2009 will have a 3d view. In terms of fairness however I would like to indicate that it takes a LOT longer than 6 months to make a 3d view and I'd expect that their developing one had nothing to do with FM implementing one.

Just saw this:

http://www.championshipmanager.co.uk...ews.php?id=416