WALL-E (some spoilers)

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I think HA hit it on the nail there. The final parts of the movie have such an impact because of what they've been saying throughout about humanity and the direction it is going. Sure, it is a massive exaggeration, but its also a wake up call.

And I recognize the value in that plot point at that specific point in the film. If the audience didn't have the back story, the film's final act would be much less meaningful.

My issue, though, is with a specific decision made by the producers and their reasons for doing so, especially given the context.

[ISiddiqui]

I don't think the message on environmentalism packs as much of an oomph if you don't see what humanity has become... and basically ties back to present day. One of the reasons the Earth is in such dire straights is because we are too lazy to get off our asses and do anything about it.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Some of us do believe that movies are an artform .

I never said they weren't art. Wall-E is great, look at the unbelievable artwork, the good storyline and the voice acting as evidence of that.

[ISiddiqui]

My point was that "art" has something to say. It isn't just for entertainment's sake.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by samifan24

Really? "People like me?" I have never posted anything on this site about Star Wars or any other movie franchises so I find this comment especially laughable. This has nothing to do with Wall-E or, as you allege, searching for subtlety where it shouldn't be found.

i said "people like you". the same logic you're saying about WALL-E is the same that people have used to bash Return of the Jedi for having Ewoks, then 20 years later bashing Episode 1 for having Jar Jar Binks. hello - at it's heart Star Wars is for kids. i bet Lucas would love to just say "i think some of you have read more into this silly kids story than was originally intended".

but to get back on track, your complaints about the movie have to deal with hitting you over the head with a message. if there isn't a message in any story then what exactly is the point? that's the whole basis of "why did the chicken cross the road?". the punchline is "i know you were expecting a silly reason, but quite simply he just wanted to get to the other side". if you aren't saying anything then all you're watching is a bunch of characters, or the movie version of Seinfeld.

kids aren't able to follow this. i imagine there are a lot of kids who didn't understand the concept of "directive". how WALL-E, a robot, was willing to give up "living" with his love interest so that EVE could save humanity from a pointless existence and return them to home. how EVE was willing to forego her directive to be with WALL-E. i don't think kids would understand driective. they also need to be hit over the head, that living such a "i want it - buy it for me" lifestyle leads to waste, which in this movie over time resulted in humanity needing to take a temporary leave while we worked on cleaning up earth, and while on this vacation we resumed our gluttonous ways to the point where we were jelly-like sloths who did/could do nothing for ourselves. you kinda need to take a kid by the hand and walk them through that, how one thing leads to another, which leads to another and that's how you arrive at the end result. you could tell that with less hand-holding, but you're an adult. you've graduated to the point where you can watch a movie with no apparent meaning and gleam your own ideas/theories as to what the ultimate message was.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

My point was that "art" has something to say. It isn't just for entertainment's sake.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

but to get back on track, your complaints about the movie have to deal with hitting you over the head with a message. if there isn't a message in any story then what exactly is the point?

I've said multiple times that I have no problem with a movie having a message or with Wall-E in particular having a message. My issue is with what the producers are saying in that message and how they're saying it.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

For those who considered a conservative anti-Affirmative Action speal it most definitely did.

You're kidding me, right? What other scenes in The Incredibles talked about that. You had Syndrome's speech, the fight I mentioned, and what else?

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Maybe you think it didn't beat you over the head because you agreed with the message .

Not really. I can understand quite a bit of it. I get pissed when the movie becomes a slam against something without really telling you about that in the previews. I had the same problem with Happy Feet. The problem that I have with the message is that kids do not know how to discern things. They form opinions now that they carry with them for the rest of their lives.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by samifan24

I've said multiple times that I have no problem with a movie having a message or with Wall-E in particular having a message. My issue is with what the producers are saying in that message and how they're saying it.

I agree with this. When you go in to see a documentary, you understand that a certain message is part of the price of admission. I have issues with a children's movie having such a controversial message and how they say it.

That said, I had no problems with the way they portrayed the people or trash issues. Those are problems that I think we can all agree with. My problem was making the leap that big box retailers are the ones to blame.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

You're kidding me, right? What other scenes in The Incredibles talked about that. You had Syndrome's speech, the fight I mentioned, and what else?

Syndrome's speech was the big huge bop your over the head encapsulation of the message (WALL-E had no speeches to that effect, or even near that... hard to when there were very few speaking lines). You had the montage at the beginning where evil lawsuits drove superheros into hiding. The obvious sillyness of a massive hulk like Mr. Incredible cramming himself into a tiny car and getting yelled at by a mini-me boss, who really wasn't all that impressive (and simply cared about the bottom line). It was all bright as day and obvious.

When you go in to see a documentary, you understand that a certain message is part of the price of admission. I have issues with a children's movie having such a controversial message and how they say it.

Which are what reviews are for.

I mean it wasn't all too clear that Million Dollar Baby was about assisted suicide from the previews and whatnot. I don't see why children's movies should be subjected to a different standard... why, because they are children and are that highly susceptible? I just don't see that. I don't think that kids are going to tell their parents not to shop at Wal-Mart because its the evil B&L from WALL-E.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

Spoiler

kids aren't able to follow this. i imagine there are a lot of kids who didn't understand the concept of "directive". how WALL-E, a robot, was willing to give up "living" with his love interest so that EVE could save humanity from a pointless existence and return them to home. how EVE was willing to forego her directive to be with WALL-E. i don't think kids would understand driective. they also need to be hit over the head, that living such a "i want it - buy it for me" lifestyle leads to waste, which in this movie over time resulted in humanity needing to take a temporary leave while we worked on cleaning up earth, and while on this vacation we resumed our gluttonous ways to the point where we were jelly-like sloths who did/could do nothing for ourselves. you kinda need to take a kid by the hand and walk them through that, how one thing leads to another, which leads to another and that's how you arrive at the end result. you could tell that with less hand-holding, but you're an adult. you've graduated to the point where you can watch a movie with no apparent meaning and gleam your own ideas/theories as to what the ultimate message was.

There, fixed that passage for you (are we ready for the "spoilers" thread yet?). Guess I'll stop reading the thread now until I've actually seen the movie.

[ISiddiqui]

There... I changed the title for the better .

To "some spoilers"

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Maybe you think it didn't beat you over the head because you agreed with the message .

For those who considered a conservative anti-Affirmative Action speal it most definitely did.

I think some people read WAY too much into these cartoons. I don't want social commentary. I want to be entertained.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

There, fixed that passage for you (are we ready for the "spoilers" thread yet?). Guess I'll stop reading the thread now until I've actually seen the movie.

for the life of me, i'll never get the people who read threads on movies they haven't watched yet. if you want reviews, read a review (which don't contain spoilers). these threads are to discuss the movie. it's not enough for someone to tell me "i didn't like the movie". ok...why? what parts? what scenes? gotta discuss the movie a little bit. i'm interested in hearing people discuss parts of the movie i may have not picked up on. i think i got all the angles, though, it's not that deep of a movie. to me this movie was a 9/10, which is saying a lot cuz i don't like these kinds of movies.

[Calis]

Don't think it's been mentioned yet, but I think the short before the movie was the best one Pixar has done.

It was great.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

for the life of me, i'll never get the people who read threads on movies they haven't watched yet. if you want reviews, read a review (which don't contain spoilers). these threads are to discuss the movie. it's not enough for someone to tell me "i didn't like the movie". ok...why? what parts? what scenes? gotta discuss the movie a little bit. i'm interested in hearing people discuss parts of the movie i may have not picked up on. i think i got all the angles, though, it's not that deep of a movie. to me this movie was a 9/10, which is saying a lot cuz i don't like these kinds of movies.

People were doing a good job of it until you decided to post key story elements...

[Anthony]

again, there isn't much to add to "i liked the movie" or "it's not as good as Toy Story". when you got some people saying it's a great movie and others saying it's an ok movie, clearly people are seeing things that others aren't, so that requires a little more in depth talk. how can you talk aout a movie without discussing it.

that's like Jason Giambi holding a press conference to apologize, but not tell you what he's apologizing for.

[Anthony]

and let me just add - this is a kids movie. the good guys win, the bad guys (though there really wasn't a typical bad guy in this movie) lose. there isn't gonna be much to reveal. i can look at any pixar movie and immediately know the ending will be a comfy, snuggly good ending. not to say i'd reveal anything juicy, but i think it's rather easy to figure out it'll all work out in the end, whatever the "all" may entail. these movies aren't looking to shatter the concepts of right/wrong that kids may have or throw complicated plot twists their way.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Syndrome's speech was the big huge bop your over the head encapsulation of the message (WALL-E had no speeches to that effect, or even near that... hard to when there were very few speaking lines). You had the montage at the beginning where evil lawsuits drove superheros into hiding. The obvious sillyness of a massive hulk like Mr. Incredible cramming himself into a tiny car and getting yelled at by a mini-me boss, who really wasn't all that impressive (and simply cared about the bottom line). It was all bright as day and obvious.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. The evil lawsuits had nothing to do about mediocrity, I thought it was a funny bit. How was his work at the insurance company about anti-affirmative action? It was more about his trying to fit into everyday life. The car was more of the same.

Now, if you want to say that The Incredibles is an indictment against the insurance companies, I could agree with that a bit more.

[ISiddiqui]

The anti-affirmative action message is encapsulated in the idea that if you advance mediocrity (by, say letting in less qualified people of one group than more qualified of another in a school), you are going to have people of great potential excellence handicaped and their talents will go to waste.... kind of like Mr. Incredible working for an insurance company.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

The anti-affirmative action message is encapsulated in the idea that if you advance mediocrity (by, say letting in less qualified people of one group than more qualified of another in a school), you are going to have people of great potential excellence handicaped and their talents will go to waste.... kind of like Mr. Incredible working for an insurance company.

If they wanted their message to be consistent, they would have portrayed the cops as incompetent.

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by Calis

Don't think it's been mentioned yet, but I think the short before the movie was the best one Pixar has done.

It was great.

I agree 100%.
It's also available on iTunes for $1.99, for those of you that are into that kind of thing.

And I think Disney is only surviving right now on old flicks on DVD and Pixar...when I went to see it last night, "Meet Dave" was one of the trailers, along with "Beverly Hills Chihuahua." Really? You go from Aladdin, The Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, and the Little Mermaid to "Meet Dave" and "Beverly Hills Chihuahua"??? Even Journey to the Center of the Earth looked "good" in comparison (and I think it'll be dreadful).

I truly enjoyed WALL-E, but maybe that's just my rocket scientist/space geek/environmentalist/robot geek side coming out...though it was interesting to see this article today, after seeing the movie last night (with the

Spoiler

scene of WALL-E having to crash through the layer of sattelites

)...

/tk

[Izulde]

WALL-E is one of the best movies I've seen in quite a few years.

Simply brilliant.

[MikeVic]

I can't believe Beverly Hills Chihuahua is actually being released in theatres. Looked brutal. That hamster in another trailer looked funny though. And I agree that the short was good. As well as Wall-E, but that review is in the movie thread.

[KWhit]

Incredible movie. One of the best I've seen in years. I have always loved Pixar's stuff, but this was their best I think (with Toy Story a close #2).

My 4 year old loved it too and it's great that there are movies that can work on multiple levels enough so that we can both get so much out of them.

[BrianD]

I very much enjoyed this movie as well. I don't think it was one of the best Pixar movies, but it was very good. I think a lot of the Pixar movie rankings depend on how well the message resonates with people. For me, the Wall-E message was rather heavy handed, and the message didn't resonate with me well, but the other 95% of the movie that wasn't heavy handed was very good.

[gstelmack]

The first 30 minutes or so were pretty good. That's when my 3 year old pooed out and I didn't get to see the rest. Wife and 5 year old really enjoyed it though. From what I could see and based on their reports, those of you who think they beat you over the head with the materialism / consumerism thing aren't that familiar with true science fiction, which was always about social commentary and taking things to extremes to warn about potential consequences. Blowing up aliens isn't really science fiction, that's just a cool action movie. This looked like good science fiction.

And from what I saw, it's not necessarily a Wal-Mart attack, 'cause around here BJs fits the bill more than Wal-Mart (Wal-Mart does not have gas stations around here, but BJ's does). It's a general attack on conglomerate corporate America; any of a number of companies fit the bill at a number of levels.

Good movie with an interesting plot. Can't wait to see the rest when the DVD comes out.

[Daimyo]

I liked it a lot, but I'd rate it somewhere in the bottom half of Pixar movies.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

From what I could see and based on their reports, those of you who think they beat you over the head with the materialism / consumerism thing aren't that familiar with true science fiction, which was always about social commentary and taking things to extremes to warn about potential consequences.

True science fiction tends to be a bit more subtle. Normally there is a situation that develops, and then the ramifications are shown. Wall-E started with that and then decided to throw in a few speeches toward the end to really hammer the point home. The part that really got to me was

Spoiler

the speeches about destroying the planet and making it uninhabitable. That point was delivered properly during the first 2/3 of the movie, the speeches were unnecessary.

Aside from that, very good movie.

Edit: added spoiler tags in case we haven't talked about that part yet.

[larrymcg421]

The Day the Earth Stood Still is one of my favorite sci fi movies ever, and it is anything but subtle.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

The Day the Earth Stood Still is one of my favorite sci fi movies ever, and it is anything but subtle.

That's been on my list to see, but I haven't yet. How pissed are you going to be when the remake comes out later this year?

[Butter]

I really didn't think the point was hammered home that much. Obviously, there was a point, but I thought most of the points were made in order to advance the story, not just to have an agenda.

It was way better than I thought it would be. Awesome movie.

[Subby]

Here is how I would probably rank them:

1. The Incredibles
2. Finding Nemo
3. WALL-E
4. Ratatouille
5. Monsters Inc.
6. Toy Story
7. A Bug's Life
8. Toy Story 2
9. Cars

[Subby]

dola

The short feature that played before WALL-E was hilarious. Very Loony Tunes.

[Kodos]

Really? Monsters Inc. before Toy Story?

[larrymcg421]

1. Toy Story
2. Toy Story 2
3. Wall-E
4. Ratatouille
5. The Incredibles
6. Finding Nemo
7. Monsters Inc.
8. A Bug's Life

Haven't seen Cars...

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by BrianD

That's been on my list to see, but I haven't yet. How pissed are you going to be when the remake comes out later this year?

Keanu Reeves as Klaatu.

I have very low expectations, so I'm just hoping it surpasses those.

[Joe]

I saw this movie yesterday, and my opinion is that it was not very good and children would not have enjoyed it. The few in the theatre left midway through.

[larrymcg421]

What didn't you like about it?

Also, my experience was much different. The children absolutely loved every minute of it.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Joe

I saw this movie yesterday, and my opinion is that it was not very good and children would not have enjoyed it. The few in the theatre left midway through.

Sounds like your experience was atypical.

[gstelmack]

1. Finding Nemo
2. Monsters, Inc.
3. The Incredibles
4. Toy Story 2
5. Toy Story
6. Cars
7. Ratatouille
8. A Bug's Life

Need to see all of WALL-E first.


I think Monsters Inc remains one of the most original of the stories and just works wonderfully. I think Nemo remains the most watchable. This comes from having seen most of these at least a few dozen times over the last 2 years.

Cutest moment: my at-the-time-2-year-old son yelling "Go!" when the chandelier falls and the rats all take off near the beginning of Ratatouille.