FOFC Literature Draft - Picks Thread

[NoMyths]

dola

Although my website appears to be dead right now. Perhaps tomorrow it won't be. Stupid servers.

[Chief Rum]

And sorry to keep you guys waiting. I just wanted to actually make a live choice for once (which I hadn't done since my third pick--I feel being unable to react and roll with the draft has hurt my ability to match my picks to the trends, but that's the way it goes...)

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I tried reading For Whom The Bell Tolls for a school project sophomore year in high school. It was so tedious to me then (Not sure how I'd view it now), that I asked to switch off, which was granted.

I chose another book instead, that turned out to be the worst novel of my then #1 and still one of my fave authors wrote.

Yeah, I was leaning toward Old Man and the Sea anyway. And even Farewell to Arms (a sentimental favorite of mine, if not as critically acclaimed) was sneaking up there.

Only thing that was holding me back on Old Man and the Sea for Fiction was the irony that I think it is actually less pages than my Short Story (A Christmas Carol).

[Chief Rum]

Chief Rum's list

1. Fiction-- 10.10...look below...
2. Single Short Story-- 2.10 A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens
3. Poem-- 4.10 The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction-- 7.1 Do Androids Dream of Electric Sleep by Phillip K. Dick
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially) 6.10 Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
6. Sport Related-- 8.10 The Sweet Science by A.J. Liebling
7. Children's-- 5.1 Charlotte's Web by E.B. White
8. Non-Fiction-- 9.1 Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy by Isaac Newton
9. Biography/Autobiography-- 3.1 Walden by Henry David Thoreau
10. History-- 1.1 The Holy Bible by God

I really had to ponder what way to go with Mr. Irrelevant. And it wasn't for lack of quality. If anything, it was being shocked that so much--and I mean TONS--of great fiction is still out there. To name a few--Moby Dick. Grapes of Wrath. The Great Gatsby. Brave New World. To Kill A Mockingbird. I mean, wow.

It turns out I actually mentioned the writer I ended up choosing on the veru first page of this thread, and it is very surprising to me that he is still out here and available. The book I selected is considered to be one of the pinnacle achievements of modern literature by many (and hopefully few here at FOFC).

And without further ado, the draft ends with...

10.10 The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky

Thanks for running this, lordscarlet!

[timmynausea]

Looks like I get to be first. Timmy's rag-tag team of undrafted free agents:

1. Fiction - The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald
2. Single Short Story - Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck (technically a novella, but I have to squeeze it in here like Chief Rum did with A Christmas Carol)
3. Poem - Do not go gentle into that good night by Dylan Thomas
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction - Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
5. Series - The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan
6. Sport Related - The Natural by Bernard Malamud
7. Children's - Where the Red Fern Grows by Wilson Rawls
8. Non-Fiction - Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas by Hunter S. Thompson
9. Biography/Autobiography - The Autobiography of Malcolm X by Malcolm X
10. History - A People's History of the United States: 1492 to Present by Howard Zinn

[ThunderingHERD]

Fiction             Don Quixote                       Miguel de Cervantes
Short Story         The Metamorphosis                 Franz Kafka
Poem                The Aeneid                        Virgil
Sci-Fi/Fantasy      Brave New World                   Aldous Huxley
Series              A Dance to the Music of Time      Anthony Powell
Sports              End Zone                          Don Delillo
Children            Tales of Mother Goose             Charles Perrault
Non-fiction         The Prince                        Niccolo Machiavelli
Biography           Black Boy                         Richard Wright
History             Democracy in America              Alexis de Toqueville

[timmynausea]

I'm going to have to look the teams over one more time, but I think Chief Rum is going to be #1 for me.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

Looks like I get to be first. Timmy's rag-tag team of undrafted free agents:

1. Fiction - The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald
2. Single Short Story - Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck (technically a novella, but I have to squeeze it in here like Chief Rum did with A Christmas Carol)
3. Poem - Do not go gentle into that good night by Dylan Thomas
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction - Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
5. Series - The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan
6. Sport Related - The Natural by Bernard Malamud
7. Children's - Where the Red Fern Grows by Wilson Rawls
8. Non-Fiction - Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas by Hunter S. Thompson
9. Biography/Autobiography - The Autobiography of Malcolm X by Malcolm X
10. History - A People's History of the United States: 1492 to Present by Howard Zinn

Do not go gentle was on my list when I got The Road Not Taken. I already mentioned The Great Gatsby on my final list of novels. And if I hadn't grabbed Walden early, Malcom X's autobio was high on my list to pick. Tried to find a way to get Brave New World on there (on my list when I picked Do Androids Dream of Electric Sleep).

Another book on my list of scifi greats that wasn't picked (and I am very surprised) was A Clockwork Orange.

[ntndeacon]

I had some of the same folks on my undrafted team
1. Fiction --Don Quixote--Miguel de Cervantes
2. Single Short Story The Secret Life of Walter Mitty--James Thurber
3. Poem Ode to a Grecian Urn--John Keats
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction A Mote in God’s Eye--Larry Niven
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially) In Search of Lost Time--Marcel Proust
6. Sport Related The Natural Bernard Malamud
7. Children's Hans Christian Anderson The Ugly Duckling Black 8. Non-Fiction The Elements--Euclid
9. Biography/Autobiography the Autobiography of Malcolm X --Alex Haley
10. History Ecclesiatistical History of the English People the Venerable Bede

A couple others I considered: Bartleby the Scrivener (Melville)as a short Story In Children's I thought about The Tale of Peter Rabbit by Beatrix Potter
In Sports I considered the Poem Baseball Sad Legacy (otherwise nown as Tinkers to Evers to Chance)by Franklin Pierce Adams

[Radii]

Originally Posted by ThunderingHERD

Fiction Don Quixote Miguel de Cervantes
Short Story The Metamorphosis Franz Kafka
Poem The Aeneid Virgil
Sci-Fi/Fantasy Brave New World Aldous Huxley
Series A Dance to the Music of Time Anthony Powell
Sports End Zone Don Delillo
Children Tales of Mother Goose Charles Perrault
Non-fiction The Prince Niccolo Machiavelli
Biography Black Boy Richard Wright
History Democracy in America Alexis de Toqueville

wow, seriously, get out of my head. All four of the bolded ones are #1 on my list of unused picks in their categories.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ThunderingHERD

Fiction             Don Quixote                       Miguel de Cervantes
Short Story         The Metamorphosis                 Franz Kafka
Poem                The Aeneid                        Virgil
Sci-Fi/Fantasy      Brave New World                   Aldous Huxley
Series              A Dance to the Music of Time      Anthony Powell
Sports              End Zone                          Don Delillo
Children            Tales of Mother Goose             Charles Perrault
Non-fiction         The Prince                        Niccolo Machiavelli
Biography           Black Boy                         Richard Wright
History             Democracy in America              Alexis de Toqueville

Shocked Aeneid wasn't picked. Before I submitted my list for Poetry to lordscarlet, Aeneid was top of my list. At the last second, I switched in The Road Not Taken.

Another one of my favorites out there--John Donne's For Whom the Bell Tolls (it tolls for thee.. )

[ntndeacon]

I also thought about 2001: A Space Oddysey by Arthur C Clark but thought that was a novelization of the movie, so went with the Sci Fi I first thought of

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I also thought about 2001: A Space Oddysey by Arthur C Clark but thought that was a novelization of the movie, so went with the Sci Fi I first thought of

Yup, that was the exact reason I didn't rate that one higher in my picks, as I knew he had novelized the movie (although to wonderful effect--I needed Clarke to tell me just what the hell happened at the end of the movie).

I was trying to find a way to get Clarke into this thing, really, without stretching. Besides 2001, I also considered the 2001 series for series, as well as the Rama series (which is very underrated, IMO). I also would have loved to have gotten the Nine Billion Names of God into the Short Story spot.

Speaking of terrific scifi, also no Heinlein in this one. Surprised no one took Stranger in a Stranger Land.

But then again, you all saw my list of spurned fiction writers. There are some really great ones there. We probably could have had 20 draftees in this one and still had some real quality left over.

[Scoobz0202]

Timmy and ThunderingHerd both have Brave New World?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

Timmy and ThunderingHerd both have Brave New World?

No, those lists are "top undrafted" lists. They both felt that Brave New World is one of the top overlooked in the draft (and I agree).

[Scoobz0202]

Doh.

I guess if I read close enough, and then continued to read the thread I would have noticed that

[Izulde]

Brave New World was what I almost took for my sci-fi/fantasy pick, but I decided I needed more popular fiction, as my board was already looking strongly elitist.

[Izulde]

Fitzgerald was the fave author of mine that it killed me to leave off the board the most.

The Prince was definitely on my non-fiction list and if I'd remembered Kafka, I would've taken Metamorphisis over Snows of Kilimanjaro.

[Izulde]

Oh yeah, "Do Not Go Gentle..." is one of my top 5 fave poems of all time.

[wade moore]

Posting my undrafted FA's before looking at everyone else's:

1. Fiction - Uncle Tom's Cabin - Harriet Beecher Stowe
2. Single Short Story - "A Modest Proposal" Jonathon Swift
3. Poem - O Captain! My Captain! - Howl - Allen Ginsberg
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction - Snowcrash - Neal Stephenson
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially) - The Dragonlance Chronicles -

Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman
6. Sport Related - A Season on the Brink - John Fenstein
7. Children's - Where the Wild Things Are - Maurice Sendak
8. Non-Fiction - A Brief History of Time - Stephen Hawking
9. Biography/Autobiography - John Adams - David McCullough
10. History - In Cold Blood - Truman Capote

Last Cut:

Non-Fiction - The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism - Max Weber

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Brave New World was what I almost took for my sci-fi/fantasy pick, but I decided I needed more popular fiction, as my board was already looking strongly elitist.

I would actually not consider Brave New World to be elitist.

[lordscarlet]

The bad news? I'm like the 100th undrafted list. The good news? I only overlap an author on someone else's undrafted list (Wade, not surprisingly).

My Undrafted "Best of the Rest" List

1. Fiction, A Confederacy of Dunces, John Kennedy Toole
2. Single Short Story, A Christmas Memory, Truman Capote
3. Poem, When You are Old, William Butler Yeats
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction, Neverwhere, Neil Gaiman
5. Series, Little House, Laura Ingalls Wilder
6. Sport Related, Shoeless Joe, W.P. Kinsella
7. Children's, Goodnight Moon, Margaret Wise Brown
8. Non-Fiction, The Mythical Man-Month, Frederick Brooks
9. Biography/Autobiography, On the Road, Jack Kerouac
10. History, Dispatches, Michael Herr

A Christmas Memory: Wade and I discussed this and it's debatable as to who said it first, so I let him have it. I also wanted to take In Cold Blood for non-fiction, but that was blocked by my vanity pick. So instead I picked what I believe is Capote's greatest short story.

When You are Old: Since Wade stole my first Irish author, I went with Yeats here. I was also considering a couple of fantastic American poets (cummings and Ginsberg).

Neverwhere: I was torn between this and Good Omens. Ultimately I haven't read Good Omens yet, although I believe it is considered a better novel, so I went with what I know.

Little House: An American Classic. Best known for Little House on the Prairie. I wanted to go with something that was not Science Fiction or fantasy here. (These may not be intended to be read sequentially, but, oh well. I'm not being judged and I wanted a non sci-fi/fantasy selection and this is the first that popped into my head for some reason)

Mythical Man-Month: This is my "vanity" pick. This is by and large considered the greatest piece of literature in the technology world. I am assuming that the lit snobs and the history snobs out there haven't heard of it and I'm hoping I can say "You've never heard of Mythical Man-Month?!". However, I may just look like an asshole.

On the Road: If you haven't figured it out, I am much more into 20th century american literature than I am the classics.

Dispatches: Recollections of Herr's time as a war correspondent in Vietnam. Many of the individuals in the book were inspirations for characters in both Apocalypse Now and Full Metal Jacket.

[lordscarlet]

double dola: I will updated the lists and post information about voting when I get to work (probably around 9am EST)

[Calis]

Really shocked that Don Quixote got passed over.

Chief made a huge jump in my rankings with that last pick. I'll have to seriously look at him as a contender. I was really surprised that Dostoevsky lasted so long.

In glancing over the lists I think that shorty story is the hardest to rank. I don't think one is a huge standout, and there's TONS of good picks. There's lots more that could've been picked as well, very deep.

Was fun to read though. I'd actually like to see a similar draft but for more modern literature as well, say like the last 75 years or so, maybe even 50.

[JPhillips]

1. Fiction, Waiting for Godot, Samuel Beckett
2. Single Short Story, The Legend of Sleepy Hollow, Washington Irving
3. Poem, The Flowers of Evil, Charles Baudelaire
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction, A Stranger in a Strange Land, Robert Heinlein
5. Series, The Oresteia, Aeschylus
6. Sport Related, Moneyball, Michael Lewis
7. Children's, Aesop's Fables, Aesop
8. Non-Fiction, Republic, Plato
9. Biography/Autobiography, Personal Memoirs, Ulysses S. Grant
10. History, The Influence of Seapower Upon History, Alfred Thayer Mahan

[Lathum]

My undragted list, a couple of repeats.

1. Fiction- Lord of the Flies- William Golding
2. Single Short Story -The Secret Life of Walter Mitty--James Thurber
3. Poem- Twas the night before Christmas-Major Livingston
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction Stranger in a strange land- Robert Heinlein
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially) – Left Behind- Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins
6. Sport Related- moneyball- Michael M Lewis
7. Children's- where the wild things are- Maurice Sendak
8. Non-Fiction The celestein prophecy- James Redfeild
9. Biography/Autobiography The Road Ahead- Bill Gates
10. History- Uncle Toms Cabin- Harriet Beecher Stowe

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

1. Fiction, Waiting for Godot, Samuel Beckett
2. Single Short Story, The Legend of Sleepy Hollow, Washington Irving
3. Poem, The Flowers of Evil, Charles Baudelaire
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction, A Stranger in a Strange Land, Robert Heinlein
5. Series, The Oresteia, Aeschylus
6. Sport Related, Moneyball, Michael Lewis
7. Children's, Aesop's Fables, Aesop
8. Non-Fiction, Republic, Plato
9. Biography/Autobiography, Personal Memoirs, Ulysses S. Grant
10. History, The Influence of Seapower Upon History, Alfred Thayer Mahan

Not a huge deal since these lists are just for fun, but "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow" was selected.

[Lathum]

My biggest 2 surprises are Where the Wild thimgs are and Moneyball not being taken

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Chief Rum's list

1. Fiction-- 10.10...look below...
2. Single Short Story-- 2.10 A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens
3. Poem-- 4.10 The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction-- 7.1 Do Androids Dream of Electric Sleep by Phillip K. Dick
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially) 6.10 Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
6. Sport Related-- 8.10 The Sweet Science by A.J. Liebling
7. Children's-- 5.1 Charlotte's Web by E.B. White
8. Non-Fiction-- 9.1 Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy by Isaac Newton
9. Biography/Autobiography-- 3.1 Walden by Henry David Thoreau
10. History-- 1.1 The Holy Bible by God

I really had to ponder what way to go with Mr. Irrelevant. And it wasn't for lack of quality. If anything, it was being shocked that so much--and I mean TONS--of great fiction is still out there. To name a few--Moby Dick. Grapes of Wrath. The Great Gatsby. Brave New World. To Kill A Mockingbird. I mean, wow.

It turns out I actually mentioned the writer I ended up choosing on the veru first page of this thread, and it is very surprising to me that he is still out here and available. The book I selected is considered to be one of the pinnacle achievements of modern literature by many (and hopefully few here at FOFC).

And without further ado, the draft ends with...

10.10 The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky

Thanks for running this, lordscarlet!

remember when i was agonizing over my fiction pick? this was the other book that i was strongly considering. love the pick

[DaddyTorgo]

in hindsight i should have "themed" my choices, gone with eugene onegin, brothers K, death of ivan ilyich, etc. and just gone "all russian"

i realized that about halfway through that that would have been a great strategy

[Buccaneer]

It's funny, scanning through the best of the rest lists, I like the original lists better overall despite the criticisms of such.

[Warhammer]

The Prince was my backup at non-fiction. Maybe I should have gone with that instead of Adam Smith.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

It's funny, scanning through the best of the rest lists, I like the original lists better overall despite the criticisms of such.

I don't think any of us were claiming we could make a lit better than the original 10. Just that there were a few selections we are surprised were not taken.

[Buccaneer]

What happens now? I can PM you my top 3 before I leave.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

I don't think any of us were claiming we could make a lit better than the original 10. Just that there were a few selections we are surprised were not taken.

Exactly. I wouldn't put my whole list up against the other lists, but there are certain ones I think could improve several of the lists (in-particular my Children's selection and my Short Story selection).

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

The Prince was my backup at non-fiction. Maybe I should have gone with that instead of Adam Smith.

I think either one would have been excellent. Adam Smith works very very well.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

What happens now? I can PM you my top 3 before I leave.

OK. I got it. If we start voting and it's public and you're gone I will post it for everyone to see.

[JPhillips]

Mine is more of an "influential" list. I'd put Moneyball, Republic and Influence of Seapower, against any of the picks in those categories, but picking 11th in each category does limit the options.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

The Prince was my backup at non-fiction. Maybe I should have gone with that instead of Adam Smith.

I;m not sure how anyone could logicaly think there rest of list is better then any of the originals considering there is a pretty stiff handicap.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Calis

Really shocked that Don Quixote got passed over.

Chief made a huge jump in my rankings with that last pick. I'll have to seriously look at him as a contender. I was really surprised that Dostoevsky lasted so long.

In glancing over the lists I think that shorty story is the hardest to rank. I don't think one is a huge standout, and there's TONS of good picks. There's lots more that could've been picked as well, very deep.

Was fun to read though. I'd actually like to see a similar draft but for more modern literature as well, say like the last 75 years or so, maybe even 50.

I kept waiting for Don Quixote as well.

[Warhammer]

I was just thinking out loud with that. The Prince was actually my initial gut instinct for non-fiction. I think I actually started thinking better as the draft went on. My initial strategy was wrong, and I started thinking about filling in my weak categories first before my stronger ones. Heck, for history I had a slew of books in my head. For non-fiction, just off the top of my head you have de Tocqueville's Democracy in America, Mahan's Influence of Seapower, Aristotle's Corpus Aristolieum, Freud's The Interpretation of Dreams, etc.

Children's books which had me terrified early wound up being a much deeper category than I thought. Had I not taken Pooh, there was still Hans Christian Andersen (Little Mermaid, Ugly Duckling, etc), Maurice Sendak (I considered Where the Wild Things Are but I personally do not like the book), and Dahl up until st.cronin nabbed him.

Science Fiction was another deep field, Ringworld by Larry Niven, Starship Troopers or Stranger In A Strange Land by Heinlen, 2001 by Clarke (note, this book was developed concurrently with the movie, but there was quite a bit of cross-fertilization of ideas between the two. Also, the concept of the movie was drawn from two of Clarke's previous works),

Sports was a huge category for me because I realized early there were not all that many great works there. My list (and I mentioned that Eight Men Out was my backup, that was actually third on my list) was shallow and I figured the two most powerful books there were Ball Four and Moneyball. After I got Ball Four I fogot about the category until Lathum mentioned Moneyball here at the end. I'm in agreement with him that I am shocked Moneyball was not taken.

In biography, there just wasn't any biographies that stood out. I thought about John Adams by McCullogh, but he's not exactly a highly thought of figure. I didn't want to pick someone famous as the subject just to have some one famous there as I thought that would be pandering. There are quite a few good biographies, but no one really knows about them. I debated A Solider's Story by Omar Bradley and A Genius for War by D'Este (Patton) but figured those were not well enough known. So I figured I would go with Profiles in Courage.

The one pick I wish I had back was Catch-22, but it is still a solid pick. I just can't fathom why I took that then when I could have had a ton of other picks there.

[Buccaneer]

Warhammer, you could have gone with Sandberg's Lincoln for Bio.

[cartman]

Don't know if this is good or bad, but my draft worked out exactly as I had pictured it in the beginning. As I sketched out my initial draft plan, I went with what I would thought would be available at each slot. It turns out I was able to get my top choice at each position. There aren't any of my picks I really had to make a decision on one or the other. So I'm very happy with how the draft went for me.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I kept waiting for Don Quixote as well.

That was my plan for literature but when Shogun wasn't considered history I had to change my plan and had no where to put him.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Warhammer, you could have gone with Sandberg's Lincoln for Bio.

Dang it! I was even considering his Civil War stuff too. I can't believe I forgot about his work on Lincoln. They were right next to each other on the bookshelf when I was growing up!

[Buccaneer]

I was very disappointed in the Bio category. There are a number of Pulitzer Prize winners that would be both popular/recognizable and award-winning literature. These would include McCoullough (Truman, Adams), Caro (LBJ), Freeman (Lee, Washington) and Lewis (DuBois), much like Sandberg's Lincoln.

[Warhammer]

For non-fiction how would the Betty Crocker cookbook been received?

[lordscarlet]

FWIW, a lot of people had Moneyball on their lists (both pre-draft and as things progressed) but it never got to a point where I should pick it for someone.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

For non-fiction how would the Betty Crocker cookbook been received?

not very well from me as I see the cookbook that could have been there instead is the Joy of Cooking.

On another note, having a series that must be read sequentially basically meant it had to be a very long book published in sections. The Hardy Boys/Nancy Drew; Jeeves; Nero Wolfe all came to mind as series. However none of them qualified under the usage that they had to be read sequentially. To me it basically was a 2nd sci fi category because of that. For those who think that the Foundation series was a bit early should remember, that when the Hugo awards looked at the best series of books ever, it was Foundation series that won not Lord of the Rings or Dune. I also thing Dune is a great series as well.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

However none of them qualified under the usage that they had to be read sequentially. To me it basically was a 2nd sci fi category because of that. For those who think that the Foundation series was a bit early should remember, that when the Hugo awards looked at the best series of books ever, it was Foundation series that won not Lord of the Rings or Dune. I also thing Dune is a great series as well.

The Jack Ryan books of Tom Clancy could have been there. The Jason Bourne books would qualify as well. Not saying they are necessarily great literature, but there are other books that could fit.