Latest Sports Guy Article is Up at ESPN Page 2..

[MylesKnight]

Here it is..

[tucker342]

I love his articles

[MizzouRah]

EXCELLENT article!



Thanks,


Todd

[MizzouRah]

dola,

My best friend was an avid Boston fan besides a Cardinal fan and when Clemens left, he quit watching them. I asked him one day where his Bosox hat was and he almost cried as he went into a one hour rant about Clemens being a traitor.

Todd

[KWhit]

I really hate Roger Clemens and I'm not even a Sox fan.

[mckerney]

I'd read the article earlier, and although I'm a Twins fan, I guess you could say I'm a Red Sox sympathizer. And yes, I do hate Roger Clemens.

[Ksyrup]

I read a different article on SI about Clemens. Refuted everything about him not being in shape and basically blamed the whole thing on Duquette - he basically had to let him go to save face for making the comments about him being in the twilight of his career. The numbers he put up that last year, although the W/L and ERA are not good, support the fact that he was still at the top of his game.

I don't blame Clemens for leaving an organization that didn't want him - just like Mo Vaughn left - but I can understand from a fan's perspective benig upset that he didn't even acknowledge them. I have no problem with him leaving for more money, though, since Duquette never had any intention of making him a serious offer. If they were objective, Red Sox fans would understand that. I also don't blame him for wanting to go to winner at the end of his career. Even if it happened to be the Yankees.

He's certainly not the first athlete to leave a city and not take out a full-page ad thanking the fans. Why do Boston fans think they are so special that they are entitled to whine about Clemens doing what 99% of all athletes do - simply pack up and move to another city when th are told they are not wanted?

[Easy Mac]

Red Sox fans can bitch when a fan favorite leaves directly for your biggest rival (see also, Braves fans and Tom "I'm a Whore for the MLBPA" Glavine).

[cthomer5000]

Was Clemens worth the money he got coming off those last 4 years in Boston? No. So you can in no way blame the Red Sox for not re-signing him.

[TroyF]

I'm not even a Red Sox fan (outside of cheering for them to beat the Yankees) and I thought Roger was a jack ass.

He signs a monster contract and has a couple of average years at the end of it. I believe his 2 shoutouts in the last year of the deal happened at the tail end of the season. (including a 20K performence) Overall, for the length of the 4 year contract he has 11 complete games and 4 shutouts. He had 9 complete games and 3 shutouts the following year after he left. Not to mention more wins than he'd had the previous two seasons combined.

The full page ad thing is also a myth. Fans just want some form of acknowledgement. They don't need full page ads, but it's nice when a player thanks them for being there. Most players, even when they leave at least do that. Hell, Bill Romanowski did that much.

Roger didn't. I'm with the Red Sox fans in saying he's one of my least favorite MLB players.

TroyF

[Ksyrup]

I'm not trying to make excuses for him - he IS a jackass. But I think the whole thing got blown out of proportion because it's Boston. Here's a piece of that SI article I was talking about:



Note that five of Clemens' six most efficient strikeout seasons have occurred after he turned 33, an age at which Sandy Koufax was three years into retirement. Also note that when former Red Sox GM Dan Duquette allowed Clemens to leave Boston after the 1996 season because the hurler, Duquette said, was in "the twilight" of his career, Clemens had just come off a season in which he struck out more batters per nine innings than in every season of his career to that point, except 1988.

"Forget his won-loss record," current Red Sox GM Theo Epstein said, referring to Clemens' 10-13 mark in 1996. "His strikeout rate was still right up there and always has been. That tells you what kind of stuff he has."

Clemens struck out 20 batters in the last game he won for Boston. He had a 28-inning scoreless streak in August of '96, the longest in the majors that year. He also led the league in strikeouts. Does that sound like a pitcher losing his stuff?

Duquette, in an e-mail response to a query about Clemens, called the future Hall of Famer "a determined, durable, terrifically talented pitcher who has long been one of the best at what he does."

In addressing Clemens' departure, Duquette wrote, "During the last part of Roger's tenure with the Sox, I got the feeling that the intense pressure of being the most high-profile player for so many years in the boiling cauldron that is baseball in Boston was weighing heavily on Roger and he wanted to move along."

Not so, said Clemens, who stated that he would have preferred to remain in Boston but that Duquette made his decision to leave easy.

"It's no different than one corporation asking you to work for them, saying we want you, and the other corporation lets you go," Clemens said. "It's pretty easy. If [the Red Sox] had gotten anywhere close in the ballpark it would have been an easy decision [to stay]."

Perhaps what damns Duquette's "twilight" evaluation the most -- and seems wholly at odds with Clemens' work ethic throughout his career -- is Duquette's insinuation that Clemens was not in proper shape.

"For a number of reasons -- such as his health and conditioning, poor run support and minimal support from the bullpen -- his record and performance had slipped in his last few years with the Red Sox," Duquette wrote.

He added that Clemens "completely re-dedicated himself to his career, got himself in great shape and had two terrific years for the Blue Jays."

The numbers clearly do not suggest that Clemens let himself go physically. In fact, he averaged a whopping 125 pitches per start in '96, a career high. And if somehow you did think Clemens wasn't in proper condition while posting the second-best strikeout rate of his career and throwing his career high in pitches per start, wouldn't you keep him to find out what he could do by "getting into shape?"

When told of Duquette's comments, Clemens rolled his eyes and said, "Oh, yeah. Yeah, I dogged it. I mailed it in ... Like [agents Randy and Alan] Hendricks said, he's just trying to save face. The manager [Kevin Kennedy] knew it at the time. [Duquette] wanted his team and he wanted some other guys he brought in for Mo [Vaughn] and everybody. It was an easy decision. It wasn't a hard decision at all for me."

As it happened, what Duquette called "the twilight" of Clemens' career has catapulted the Rocket from a great pitcher to one of the best ever. Look at it another way: When Clemens left Boston he was 34 years old and had a career record of 192-111. By way of comparison, right now Mike Mussina is 34 years old and has a career record of 189-105.

Now look at Clemens in "twilight." He is 107-43. How good is that? Consider that Pedro Martinez is 108-34 in that same period, which happens to begin with Martinez's Cy Young Award breakout season of 1997, when Pedro was 25 years old. That means by won-lost record, Clemens at the end of his career has been virtually as reliable and as big a winner as Martinez has been in the youthful prime of his career. Amazing.



Note also that Bill James has previously said that Clemens suffered from incredibly poor defense during those bad years in Boston, at the same time Maddux benefitted greatly from stellar D in Atlanta. Sometimes the back-of-the-baseball-card stats don't really tell the whole story.

[bosshogg23]

I dont understand how Sox fans can blame Duquette for not signing Roger & Mo. Yet blaming Roger for being out of shape in his last years there.

I thought trading Mo was a bad decison and not resigning Roger was a good one. I was wrong on both accounts. Duquette was right on both. Why is he SO hated? I am not trying to defend him, I know he made other poor moves, but he is most remembered for these 2.

[TroyF]

Ksyrup,

1) Strikeout rates don't make a great pitcher. It's an indicator, that's all. It may say he has great stuff, but it doesn't really matter if you don't get the key outs when you are supposed to get them. The fact he averaged 125 pitches a game and only threw 2 complete games shows this.

2) I never insinuated Roger wasn't a great pitcher. He is. One of the best of his generation.

3) I don't think it was overblown simply because of Boston. Had Clemens been a Cardinal and had the same scenario happen he'd be hated in St. Louis. Doubly so if he went to the Cubs and beat the Cardinals after he left. Triply so if he then said he wanted to go into the HOF with a Cubs cap.

As great as Clemens was and is, he treated the fans like crap. He's a scumbag, plain and simple. I hope he gets his 300th. He deserves it. I hope after that happens he gets lit up like a Christmas tree in every start for the rest of his career.

TroyF

[CamEdwards]

Bill Simmons is my hero.

[Subby]

Did anyone read Simmons' column on Larry Bird a month or so back? It was one of the best written pieces I have read in a long time.

I am way too late on Simmons - I didn't really start reading him until he had announced his move to LA. Still, I get the feeling I am reading one of the best young sports columnists in the country whenver I look at his new stuff...

[Drake]

I'm a Red Sox fan, and I still love Roger Clemens. I usually love Simmons, but we disagree on this issue.

Of course, I have the luxury of feeling this way because I don't live anywhere near Boston.

[Marmel]

I love the typical Boston fan. They always bring a smile to my face.

Hi Drake!

[vtbub]

Clemens and Duquette are both Jackasses.

New England is Red Sox nation. We were happy for the Pats, we watch the Celts if they make the playoffs, the Bruins have their faithful, but we bleed red white and blue.

You don't alienate the two best players on your team, which was exactly what the ownership and Duquette did with Clemens and Vaughan. Stories were planted in the Globe and the Herald about Mo's carousing. Nasty.

I would have signed Clemens and traded Mo and fired Duquette. We made the playoffs, but have no farm system. If I'm going to be staring up at the Yankees butt, at least I shold have the long term health of a strong minor league system to root for.

Clemens took the money and ran. He was nasty to the fans who supported him through his being fat and moody, and paid his salary. He didn't need to buy a full page ad, certainly no one feels any animosity towards Ray Bourque because he chose to go win a cup elsewhere. If Jolly Roger went to Texas or Houston like he had talked about, he would have felt more love now then he did during his Boston heyday. He didn't, he went to New York and ground it in New England's face that he had a ring, and Duquette and Harrington did not.

I'll be happy when he gets his 300th, he has earned it.

I'm proud that we expect success from our stars. The reward for winning here is worth the crap you get for losing.

Orr, Bird, Russell, The current Pats ownership and players, Paul Pierce, and others have EARNED the respect that so many players think they deserve out of the gate. I like it better that way.

[Marmel]

Originally posted by vtbub
New England is Red Sox nation.

Not all of New England baby. Down here, it is Yankee Nation.

[vtbub]

We don't consider CT part of New England

[Marmel]

Good.

[vtbub]

Wait, you were supposed to be insulted...sniff.

[jerem77]

Originally posted by TroyF
3) I don't think it was overblown simply because of Boston. Had Clemens been a Cardinal and had the same scenario happen he'd be hated in St. Louis. Doubly so if he went to the Cubs and beat the Cardinals after he left. Triply so if he then said he wanted to go into the HOF with a Cubs cap.

Not True.

Cubs and Cardinal fans don't have the inferiority complex that Boston fans do.

[ahbrady]

I'm a Red Sox fan that lives nowhere near Boston, but I still have a huge feeling of hatred for Roger Clemens. I also think Duquette made some stupid moves in his career, but I don't think letting Clemens go was one of them. In hindsight, sure it was, but at the time there was no way to predict that he would slim up from his Pillsbury Doughboy stage. I think Simmons is dead on with this one. I hope Clemens never gets his 300th. Of course he will, but I can still dream. Did anyone hear the announcers before the game at Boston when Clemens got 299? I don't remember which said this, but they both agreed. They said that they thought if it got late in the game and the Red Sox obviously weren't going to win, the fans would start cheering for him to get it. I thought this was absurd. There might be a few Red Sox fans wanting him to do well, but for the most part we Red Sox fans are bitter and not too terribly forgiving. You would think that both Berman and Morgan would know better than that. I thought it was one of the dumbest comments I have heard from a sports announcer that wasn't Bill Walton.

[Anrhydeddu]

As much as I like the BoSox and love the City of Boston, if Bill Simmons is typical of your BoSox fans than I am ashamed to be a part of that idiocy (sorry Cams). Was he serious when he wished Clemens have said, "I lost sight of what was really important, and that was my relationship with Red Sox fans"?? If so, then they deserve all of their failures that have endured over the years if they are that moronic and self-centered. Now probably most other fanatics in others cities are no different, which is why I won't have a single favorite team.

[Patman]

I don't think I could've worded it any better. Bill Simmons for president. I was hoping that he wouldn't beat the Sox this weekend, and thank God he didn't. I think that Roger Clemens could quite possibly be the antichrist of sports.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu
As much as I like the BoSox and love the City of Boston, if Bill Simmons is typical of your BoSox fans than I am ashamed to be a part of that idiocy (sorry Cams). Was he serious when he wished Clemens have said, "I lost sight of what was really important, and that was my relationship with Red Sox fans"?? If so, then they deserve all of their failures that have endured over the years if they are that moronic and self-centered. Now probably most other fanatics in others cities are no different, which is why I won't have a single favorite team.

I agree. But I think Boston fans ARE different in that respect, at least to a degree.

[Marmel]

I repeat, Boston fans give me so much pleasure.

[korme]

i love baseball

[Samdari]

Originally posted by Shorty3281
i love baseball

Speaking of that, I heard a wierd rumor the other day. Some dude claimed baseball season was actually underway. Can anyone confirm whether or not this is true?