Annika Watch

[Brillig]

Spoken with the grace of a true gentleman.

[Blackadar]

Originally posted by Brillig
Spoken with the grace of a true gentleman.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Now she can go back to the LPGA where she belongs.

[oykib]

Originally posted by Brillig
Spoken with the grace of a true gentleman.

I thought the whole point was that she should be treated like any other golfer. What would we say about Mickelson if he had a great round at a major on Thursday and then blew up on Friday?

I'd guess that toast'd be on the nicer side of the things we'd say.

[Brillig]

No, the point is that some people can avoid acting like a boor in public. Most of the rest use the Internet.

[Easy Mac]

I'd say Mickelson has bigger breast than Annika, though maybe not Craig Stadler

[Anrhydeddu]

''It was a great week but I've got to go back to my tour, where I belong,'' she said. ''I'm glad I did it, but this is way over my head.''

I guess it would ungentlemenly and wrong if we said the same thing, alluding to Blackie's post.

Reason #327,455 why overbearing hype, esp. of athletes, is so misguided and insane. Why do we still permit this?

[Brillig]

Yes, it would.

Did *none* of your parents teach any of you how to behave?

[sabotai]

My parents taught me that men and women are equal.

I guess your's taught you otherwise.

[Blackadar]

What, are we supposed to *praise* her because she got a free pass into a PGA tourney and promptly missed the cut by 4 strokes?

[bbor]

GOOD NIGHT NURSE !

[Karim]

Originally posted by Blackadar
What, are we supposed to *praise* her because she got a free pass into a PGA tourney and promptly missed the cut by 4 strokes?

Yes.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Oh Annika, you can pick up your reality check on the way out.

[thealmighty]

Mickelson may have bigger breasts, but Annika has bigger balls...

and more majors.

[Brillig]

Originally posted by Blackadar
What, are we supposed to *praise* her because she got a free pass into a PGA tourney and promptly missed the cut by 4 strokes?

No, but trash talking is beneath anyone of culture and intelligence.

Never mind, I see my mistake now.

Originally posted by an sabotai

My parents taught me that men and women are equal.

I guess your's taught you otherwise.

Exactly my point. Where are the threads trashing the other sixteen golfers who ended up +5 or worse? Well? All of this mockery has been heaped on Annika precisely because she's a woman. Not what I would call treating men and women equally.

I never said that Sorenstam did anything praiseworthy, I just point out that comments like these are petty, misogynistic and mean.

[oykib]

Originally posted by Brillig
No, but trash talking is beneath anyone of culture and intelligence.

Never mind, I see my mistake now.



Exactly my point. Where are the threads trashing the other sixteen golfers who ended up +5 or worse? Well? All of this mockery has been heaped on Annika precisely because she's a woman. Not what I would call treating men and women equally.

I never said that Sorenstam did anything praiseworthy, I just point out that comments like these are petty, misogynistic and mean.

No one knows who any of those guys are. I'd guess that most of them earned their tour cards also. There were 518 media credentials handed out for the Colonial. Of those 518, how many were ther for the sixteen that finished as bad or worse than Sorenstam?

I am one of the people that actually wanted her to do well. But most things that are high reward are high risk too.

Had she made the cut she'd have almost certainly won Sportsman of the Year and other such awards. So she's gotta take the hit from the people who didn't support her because she didn't.

[QuikSand]

FOFC - Petty, misogynistic and mean since 2000.

[VPI97]

Originally posted by Brillig
Where are the threads trashing the other sixteen golfers who ended up +5 or worse? Well?

Just an observation, but isn't this thread about Annika...not the sixteen golfers who finished worse?

[Blackadar]

Originally posted by Brillig
No, but trash talking is beneath anyone of culture and intelligence.

Never mind, I see my mistake now.



Exactly my point. Where are the threads trashing the other sixteen golfers who ended up +5 or worse? Well? All of this mockery has been heaped on Annika precisely because she's a woman. Not what I would call treating men and women equally.

I never said that Sorenstam did anything praiseworthy, I just point out that comments like these are petty, misogynistic and mean.

My sarcasm is due to the overwhelming praise that's been heaped on her for having the "courage" to play in the Colonial. If she had played well, I'd have no problem at all saying so. But for cryin' out loud, she didn't play well and showed why there's miles between the PGA and LPGA and folks are still heaping lauditudes on her.

Big F***in Deal. She got a free pass into a men's tourney and promptly missed the cut by 4 strokes. When she earns it by getting her PGA card and competiting week after week with the men, then I have nothing but respect for her. Until then, she was given a free ride, nothing more.

Much like the hubub over Suzy Whaley and the PGA Greater Hartford Open later this year. She played her way in and the press will be all over it. However, she didn't play from the same tees as the men when she qualified. She played a course that was shorter than the men because she's a woman. That's bullshit. That's not equality and until it's on a totally equal playing field, then at best it's nothing more than a stunt. At worst, it's reverse discrimination.

[sabotai]

"All of this mockery has been heaped on Annika precisely because she's a woman."

[sabotai]

dola,

If another man got a free ride into a tournement, got tons of press, was hailed on the same level as a hero, and then failed miserably...yes, he would get mocked. And I would think they would get mocked 20 times worse than anyone has mocked Annika.

(Please note that I have not mocked Annika. Why? Because she's cute, and I'd like to bang her.)

[JonInMiddleGA]

But Blackie, didn't you get the memo? If you criticize a situation that happens to involve a woman, you're misogynistic.

[sabotai]

I think the threads with lj from new Zealand goes a long way to prove that this board is not misgynist.

[Brillig]

Originally posted by Blackadar
My sarcasm is due to the overwhelming praise that's been heaped on her for having the "courage" to play in the Colonial.

If you don't think that requires courage, then perhaps you don't know what courage is. This thread and Vijay are great examples of why you're wrong.

And what's the big deal about her getting an exemption to play? Didn't eleven guys get an exemption? Why no mockery for them? Let me guess - none of you even know how they did. Sure, Sorenstam got a ton of press coverage - is that why you feel justified in mocking her?


Oh, and this:

Originally posted by sabotai
(Please note that I have not mocked Annika. Why? Because she's cute, and I'd like to bang her.)

is misogynistic. But I'm sure you won't understand how.


And this:

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
But Blackie, didn't you get the memo? If you criticize a situation that happens to involve a woman, you're misogynistic.

is vintage Jon, having nothing to do with the issue at hand.


*yawn*

This is the point: all I'm saying is that the folks in the this thread that are taking a special glee in mocking Annika Sorenstam are displaying very poor sportsmanship. Many, as the pshrinks say, appear to have "issues" with women.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Sorry brillig but it has everything to do with the criticism of the criticism that this thread has included. There's been some here who have made blanket comments about those who have been critical of the circus this subject generated.

"Sportsmanship" has nothing to do with the conversation I'm reading, there's nothing anti-sportsmanship about not approving of what I view a cheap publicity ploy by a sponsor. From a marketing standpoint, it's savvy but from a competition standpoint I think it's garbage.

And my specific beef is with the cries of misogyny when I'd been equally (or moreso) critical of the situation if it had been created the same over the first left-handed-male-albino-midget to play in a PGA event.

That's what I was commenting on (as it appears to be a main topic for the latter stage of this thread. If that's a problem for you then either a) put me on ignore or b) go fuck yourself or c) both.

[Blackadar]

If you don't think that requires courage, then perhaps you don't know what courage is

I know courage and this is not courage. This is a publicity stunt on a free pass.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally posted by Blackadar
What, are we supposed to *praise* her because she got a free pass into a PGA tourney and promptly missed the cut by 4 strokes?

Hey I'll praise her for that, I'd have missed the cut by quite a few more myself

[Brillig]

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
Sorry brillig but it has everything to do with the criticism of the criticism that this thread has included. There's been some here who have made blanket comments about those who have been critical of the circus this subject generated.

TOAST

GOOD NIGHT NURSE

Oh Annika, you can pick up your reality check on the way out.

This is critical commentary on the media circus? Sounds like schoolyard trash talk to me. It's possible to be critical of the media attention without being critical of it's subject. The fact of the matter is that some here chose to taunt the subject, and when called on their behavior, retreated to the position of "she created this media circus, ergo, she deserves the worst."

Referring to the http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/f...&threadid=9339 "Sorenstam, how will she do" thread. Lots of reasonable on-topic discussion about what her scores would be, zero criticism of the media circus.

Why is it that the media circus is being trotted out as a justification only *after* people start acting like Neanderthals.

"Sportsmanship" has nothing to do with the conversation I'm reading, there's nothing anti-sportsmanship about not approving of what I view a cheap publicity ploy by a sponsor. From a marketing standpoint, it's savvy but from a competition standpoint I think it's garbage.

Sportsmanship is where this discussion started, right after the word TOAST. If sportsmanship has nothing to do with the conversation you're reading, then perhaps you should stop posting to threads you aren't reading. But thanks for proving this

vintage Jon, having nothing to do with the issue at hand.

And if, as you say, your beef is with the sponsor, why the hate for Annika.

As for the "competition standpoint", the sponsors exemptions are there to allow the sponsors to invite anyone they want to compete. Obviously, the sponsors want to pick people who will be a media/crowd draw. Equally, they want to pick people who will put up a good showing in the tournament and not embarass themselves.

There's no case to be made that Sorenstam was not competitive out there. Shooting 71 on the first day was certainly competitive - she was pretty much at the cut line. Yeah, she shot a 74 on the second day and missed the cut. So what? Tons of golfers on the tour miss the cut, it's not the same 20-30 guys each week.

And my specific beef is with the cries of misogyny when I'd been equally (or moreso) critical of the situation if it had been created the same over the first left-handed-male-albino-midget to play in a PGA event.

Personally, I think you just saw the word "misogyny" and went into all-out "must attack political correctness" mode. Whether you like it or not, there is a degree of misogyny evidenced by some of the posters in this thread.

I think you'd have trouble finding other threads on this board where people being critical of women have been accused of misogyny - which makes your "memo" comment irrelevant and laughable, a commendable achievment. What you were, in your snide little way, trying to say was: (nudge, nudge) Hey Blackie, look out, we're about to get buried by the evil forces of political correctness! Whatever.

Oh, and Blackadar? When a left-handed-male-albino-midget plays a PGA tour event, that too will require courage, even if you can't recognize it.

That's what I was commenting on (as it appears to be a main topic for the latter stage of this thread. If that's a problem for you then either a) put me on ignore or b) go fuck yourself or c) both.

Why should I put you on ignore? Every so often, on a slow weekend afternoon, it's amusing to dissect one of your so-called arguments. If you have a problem with it, perhaps you should put me on ignore.

*yawn*

oh, and as for:

go fuck yourself

I'm sure that makes it clear to everyone that expecting civility and class from you was a big mistake on my part. Thanks!

[Blackadar]

Brillig, you fail to realize the source of our "hatred for Annike" (your words, not ours). Its not that she's competiting. It's the image that's being attached to her playing (which has been encouraged by her) that this is some sort of breakthrough for women's sports. It's not. It's a free ride.

Do I take some satisfaction in seeing her fail? Yep. But don't let that fool you to think that my satisfaction comes from being anti-women. Hell, if she was in position to win on Sunday, then I'd be cheering her on. But she didn't. She couldn't even make the cut. And people are still trying to make this out to be some sort of momentous sports moment. The satisfaction in seeing her fail is not having to put up with the political correctness in seeing this even more overblown than it already is. With all the fuss that was made, if she'd made the cut you'd think we would throw a ticker-tape parade for her.

Let's see a guy play on the LPGA tour and see how he does. (sarcasm on) Oh, that's right, that's reserved only for women. I guess we do have to protect the "weaker" sex (sarcasm off). But if we denied Annika a place on the PGA, good ole' Martha Burke would be marching in Texas this week. As I said, at its worst, this is reverse discrimination. You can point to the by-laws of the PGA (which says nothing about sex when competiting), but there's no way to pass such a rule in todays discriminatory atmosphere. But our "hero" that wants to play on the LPGA not only can't, but is ridiculed for it. What's wrong with this picture?

Listen, if women want equality, I'm all for it. But don't expect me to hold the door open for you. That's the double standard that fuels this discussion.

For instance, the Billie Jean King/Bobby Riggs match is held up as a standard for women's equality. Yet, it was no where near equal. Riggs was 55, King was 29. King got to use the doubles court, Riggs had the singles. King was in the prime of her career, Riggs had been retired for 20 years. Yet people think this match was equal? King has almost been cannonized for winning this lopsided match. What a farce.


By the way, to see how a true battle of the sexes fairs, take a look at these two examples:
In 1998, Venus took on the 100th ranked male player in the world, a Karsten Braasch (who?). She promptly got spanked, 6-2. In 1992, Jimmy Connors beat Martina Navratilova handily. Yet you can't find anything about these matches, which were much more equal. I have no problem with Annika, as long as people stop trying to make her Colonial experience a historical moment in women's sports.

[tucker342]

Brillig, you fail to realize the source of our "hatred for Annike" (your words, not ours). Its not that she's competiting. It's the image that's being attached to her playing (which has been encouraged by her) that this is some sort of breakthrough for women's sports. It's not. It's a free ride.

Do I take some satisfaction in seeing her fail? Yep. But don't let that fool you to think that my satisfaction comes from being anti-women. Hell, if she was in position to win on Sunday, then I'd be cheering her on. But she didn't. She couldn't even make the cut. And people are still trying to make this out to be some sort of momentous sports moment. The satisfaction in seeing her fail is not having to put up with the political correctness in seeing this even more overblown than it already is. With all the fuss that was made, if she'd made the cut you'd think we would throw a ticker-tape parade for her.

Well said Blackadar

[JonInMiddleGA]

brillig, I'm not sure what the source of your animosity toward me is but then again I realize I don't particularly care either. Maybe I know you from elsewhere or you've had another name here or something I'm not remembering but for whatever reason you suddenly blipped across my radar after deciding to call me out personally. Damned if I can ever remember your making a big enough impression on me that I'd have singled you out for attention but who knows, they say the memory is the first thing to go.

I'd address your "points" but I don't really see much you've written here that's worth any further effort on my part, it's pretty obvious that you're just looking to find a pissing contest to get into & I must have seemed like a likely dance partner. But, sad to say, all you've managed beyond mildly annoying me earlier today is to bore me. And with that in mind, I'm going to take advantage of the one good idea you managed in this thread, you get to join the ranks of the ignored. But if you ever manage to find your way back east & south, lemme know, we could chat further.

TTFN,
Jon

[sabotai]

"is misogynistic. But I'm sure you won't understand how."

misogynist: One who hates women.

How is me finding Annika cute make me hate women?

[sabotai]

"I have no problem with Annika, as long as people stop trying to make her Colonial experience a historical moment in women's sports."

ESPN did a top 10 barrier breakers in the history of sports. On the list was a female who played goalie for the Tampa Bay Lighting (when they were a fresh expansion team) for ONE preseason game....some barrier breaker.

It would be if women goalies still appeared in the NHL or if she actually played in regular season games. But they don't and she didn't. What barrier was broken?

At least Annika is clear on what happened. Never did I hear her say that she was doing this for all of women. Never did she say she was doing this to bring down a barrier. She did this to see how she ranked with the best in the world. And she found out. And she doesn't seem soar about it. Why is brillig?

Yeah, she got a free ride. And I'm sure she knows this. And I don't blame her ONE BIT for taking advantage of this chance.

See the Pistons thread. Obviously Blackie isn't mysogynist because he said that same damn things in that thread (TOAST). Why make a big stink of it in this thread and not that one? Why don't I see people claiming that Blackie hates people from Detroit in that thread? If he said TOAST about a woman in this thread, and that means he's misogynist, than obviously him saying the same thing in a thread about Detroit would mean he hates people from Detroit.

What about people getting on Lebron? Haven't you seen that? I guess that means they are racist.

And I guess I'd be racist too if I found a black woman hot and would not pass up the chance to have sex with her if I could.

[clintl]

I fail to understand why the sponsor's exemption given to Annika is such a big deal to people. She was not the only golfer in the tournament to get one, and most tournaments give them out. If it hadn't been given to her, it would have been given to someone else who hadn't earned his way into the tournament. At least least giving it to Annika added one more prominent name to the tournament's field. And as far as how she played, while it wasn't really a success, it was no disaster, either. One of the people she beat was Bob Estes, the 16th ranked golfer in the world.