Help please!

gklech · 05-21-2003, 06:33 AM

Hi all,

I'm new to Front Office Football 4 and have a question:-

Jonathan Ogden won All-Pro guard award in 2002. I followed the basic Training Camp into the 2003 season and (for some reason) his stats are hugely reduced!

I haven't changed my coach/scout or anything.

Can anyone help at least make me understand why he's from being All-Pro to a total loser?

Thanks.

Bee · 05-21-2003, 06:51 AM

Did he have a late season injury?

gklech · 05-21-2003, 07:34 AM

No - he was fine all the way through. That's why I'm so surprised.

Bee · 05-21-2003, 07:41 AM

I've seen major busts after a player's 5th season, but I believe Ogden should be in his 7th season (?) or something like that so there shouldn't be a bust factor involved. I'm not sure what might have happened. I don't think I've ever seen a player take a significant hit to his ratings unless there was an injury involved, aging or the 5th year bust "factor".

gklech · 05-21-2003, 07:44 AM

Ahh....I did change Ogden's age before playing to make him a 2nd year player - to keep him around longer. Would that explain it - although it seems really dumb to me.

Busting after the 5th season? Would this be a bug?

Thanks for all your help.

Bee · 05-21-2003, 07:52 AM

Ah...if you made him a second year player, he's busting. He's one of those guys who have a good season and then no one hears from again (aka, Icky Woods).

Generally busting or breakouts happen by the 5th season. It's not a bug, it's just the way it's programmed. I think Jim felt at that point you generally know what kind of talent a player will have, so the ratings are more accurate at that point. Since you played Ogden all season, his true ratings were revealed quicker than if he had been a backup not getting much playing time. Thus the dramatic drop coming into the next season.

gklech · 05-21-2003, 07:59 AM

G-U-T-T-E-D.

gklech · 05-21-2003, 08:07 AM

Thanks for the assistance!

Bee · 05-21-2003, 08:10 AM

No problem.

QuikSand · 05-21-2003, 08:13 AM

In FOF4, there is a somewhat subtle mechanism of revealig to us the actual skills of players. When we see rookies, we typically see some combination of current skill (estimated by our scout) and projected development (also). Over time, we become more certain in the information we hold on the player - and this develops along with playing time, as suggested above. Sometimes, this means the player doesn't havethe potential we once thought he did. Other times, it means that the player is better than anyone expected. Over time, we learn more, and get a new perspective - that will lead to some busts and booms, as you might expect, and as we see in real football.

I don't know how a player from the original set who has been
"modified" like this fits into the standard development model, but it's not out of the real of possibility that recasting Ogden as a young player subjected him to some randomness (or even deliberately established) changes in skills, and resulted in the bust you now see.

But good luck with your team of shiny new, young and vibrant Ravens, anyway.

Bee · 05-21-2003, 08:23 AM

QS always explains things much better than I can. Thanks Quiksand.

gklech · 05-21-2003, 08:35 AM

Great stuff guys. Thankyou!

fantastic flying froggies · 05-21-2003, 08:46 AM

gklech, meet Quicksand. If you have a question, no matter what it's about, ask him. He usually has the answer. If not, he'll figure it out somehow.

Just one warning : do not EVER expect the answer to be brief.

gklech · 05-21-2003, 08:51 AM

Quicksand, if you don't mind answering another - what is the best way to avoid busts in the draft?

Thanks.

dacman · 05-21-2003, 09:01 AM

Oh, god....you just might set QS into small novel mode.

3ric · 05-21-2003, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gklech
Quicksand, if you don't mind answering another - what is the best way to avoid busts in the draft?

Thanks.

Um, see the "Strategies" forum on this board. QS has a lengthy thread on this topic there.

QuikSand · 05-21-2003, 11:02 AM

Yeah, I think the small novel is already written, over in the strategies section. Have a look.

If you haven't yet, though - here's my *spoiler* warning. I think reading and understanding what's there will really change the way you play the game, and for some people that won't be a good thing. You'll gain a really significant advantage over your computer rivals - and that may reduce the game's challenge for you.

If that's what you're looking for - go take a look. If not, you may be better off skipping it, and working things through for yourself.

05-21-2003, 08:46 AM	#13
fantastic flying froggies Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sunny South of France	gklech, meet Quicksand. If you have a question, no matter what it's about, ask him. He usually has the answer. If not, he'll figure it out somehow. Just one warning : do not EVER expect the answer to be brief. __________________ Detroit Vampires (CFL) : Ve 're coming for your blood! Camargue Flamingos (WOOF): pretty in Pink

05-21-2003, 09:01 AM	#15
dacman College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: speak to the trout	Oh, god....you just might set QS into small novel mode. __________________ No signatures allowed.

05-21-2003, 06:51 AM	#2
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	Did he have a late season injury?

05-21-2003, 07:34 AM	#3
gklech n00b Join Date: May 2003 Location: London, England.	No - he was fine all the way through. That's why I'm so surprised.

05-21-2003, 07:41 AM	#4
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	I've seen major busts after a player's 5th season, but I believe Ogden should be in his 7th season (?) or something like that so there shouldn't be a bust factor involved. I'm not sure what might have happened. I don't think I've ever seen a player take a significant hit to his ratings unless there was an injury involved, aging or the 5th year bust "factor".

05-21-2003, 07:44 AM	#5
gklech n00b Join Date: May 2003 Location: London, England.	Ahh....I did change Ogden's age before playing to make him a 2nd year player - to keep him around longer. Would that explain it - although it seems really dumb to me. Busting after the 5th season? Would this be a bug? Thanks for all your help.

05-21-2003, 07:52 AM	#6
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	Ah...if you made him a second year player, he's busting. He's one of those guys who have a good season and then no one hears from again (aka, Icky Woods). Generally busting or breakouts happen by the 5th season. It's not a bug, it's just the way it's programmed. I think Jim felt at that point you generally know what kind of talent a player will have, so the ratings are more accurate at that point. Since you played Ogden all season, his true ratings were revealed quicker than if he had been a backup not getting much playing time. Thus the dramatic drop coming into the next season.

05-21-2003, 07:59 AM	#7
gklech n00b Join Date: May 2003 Location: London, England.	G-U-T-T-E-D.

05-21-2003, 08:07 AM	#8
gklech n00b Join Date: May 2003 Location: London, England.	Thanks for the assistance!

05-21-2003, 08:10 AM	#9
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	No problem.

05-21-2003, 08:13 AM	#10
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	In FOF4, there is a somewhat subtle mechanism of revealig to us the actual skills of players. When we see rookies, we typically see some combination of current skill (estimated by our scout) and projected development (also). Over time, we become more certain in the information we hold on the player - and this develops along with playing time, as suggested above. Sometimes, this means the player doesn't havethe potential we once thought he did. Other times, it means that the player is better than anyone expected. Over time, we learn more, and get a new perspective - that will lead to some busts and booms, as you might expect, and as we see in real football. I don't know how a player from the original set who has been "modified" like this fits into the standard development model, but it's not out of the real of possibility that recasting Ogden as a young player subjected him to some randomness (or even deliberately established) changes in skills, and resulted in the bust you now see. But good luck with your team of shiny new, young and vibrant Ravens, anyway.

05-21-2003, 08:23 AM	#11
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	QS always explains things much better than I can. Thanks Quiksand.

05-21-2003, 08:35 AM	#12
gklech n00b Join Date: May 2003 Location: London, England.	Great stuff guys. Thankyou!

05-21-2003, 08:51 AM	#14
gklech n00b Join Date: May 2003 Location: London, England.	Quicksand, if you don't mind answering another - what is the best way to avoid busts in the draft? Thanks.

05-21-2003, 11:02 AM	#17
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Yeah, I think the small novel is already written, over in the strategies section. Have a look. If you haven't yet, though - here's my spoiler warning. I think reading and understanding what's there will really change the way you play the game, and for some people that won't be a good thing. You'll gain a really significant advantage over your computer rivals - and that may reduce the game's challenge for you. If that's what you're looking for - go take a look. If not, you may be better off skipping it, and working things through for yourself.

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