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[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by kentontrace

whoops - i thought he was the one that tried the all pass 'o' - lol

Franklin - what kind def did you have set up??

Basic playcalling... balanced on both sides of the ball.

[kentontrace]

I took a look at your playcalling - and it appears that the guy you were playing eitehr called a most run def or an all run def...so that is way you werent able to break the runs against him and get your avg. up

[kingfc22]

My game ended up in a 31-34 loss. He ran the ball 52 times and I passed it 58 times.

[law90026]

Wow talk about an odd game as my team beats Tasan's 14-7.

My RB ran 61 times for 167 yards, damn. He's definitely got stamina but his YPC really sucks.

Odd stat of the day: My LG apparently got 5 tackles?!?

[cthomer5000]

we are teh suck.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by chinaski

interesting box score, to say the least :/
http://www.tokenleaguefootball.com/m...ixtureID=67168

500 yards and only 7 points? Both teams 1 of 16 on 3rd downs, in a 30-7 game? 84 and 100 plays?

as was said before, your 491 yards of offense includes many things we're not used to see in there. You had 163 rushing yards and only 66 passing yards for a real tota of 229 yards, to his 298 yards total.

FM

[Silver Owl]

Originally Posted by Ramzavail

stats look a bit unrealistic.

tackles are low, no PR, no KR, no punting, opponent had one RB with 63 rushing attempts (eddie george?)

Rudi Johnson,
63 att 291 yds 1 td

The combined total for both teams,
passing - 14-44 131 yds 0 td
rushing - 114 rushes 557 yds 3 td

final score Birds lose 13-17

[Chubby]

30-0 and 12-3 WINNERS!

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

as was said before, your 491 yards of offense includes many things we're not used to see in there. You had 163 rushing yards and only 66 passing yards for a real tota of 229 yards, to his 298 yards total.

FM

ah cool, sorry i missed that.

[GrantDawg]

So, I have a feeling one coach in our league (at least) has figured out a secret about this game. Hyperactive's Ghouls have scored 72 points and have given up 0 in two games. He's a veteran coach, so my guess is he has figured out the strengths and weaknesses of the sim. I wonder if it is the roster (which is much heavier on the defense side) or if has made a super game-plan.

[Brillig]

Some feedback/suggestions/bugs:

#1 Advanced Playcalling: Offline editor. I think you'd be better served by making a quick off-line app that would allow you to create a playbook file with your advanced playcalling settings. An XML format, or even a CSV would be fine - then have up/down-loading playbooks supported on the website. Otherwise, I think you're going to have a lot of trouble working the UI to make Advanced Playcalling useful. (Oh, and most/all of us are going to want the ability to save different playbooks anyway, so...)
#2 Interceptions not implemented? Or just not being tracked in stats? I certainly haven't seen one...
#3 Averaging only 1.1 sacks per game (in league #274). Anomaly or real problem?
#4 Kickoffs are too sensitive to Kicking Power. My last game, my kicker #1917 (89 KP, 91 KA, 91 overall) had kickoffs of 53, 56 and 56 yards. My opponent's kicker #46 (93 KP, 87 KA, 89 overall) had kickoffs of 76, 61, 75, 68 and 73 yards. Note that my opponent also went 3/3 on field goals, so Kicking Accuracy doesn't seem to have the same drop-off. Note also that since my kicker's overall rating is higher I paid more for mine. This leads into:
#5 Need to be able to create our own draft criteria. Advanced Drafting, if you will. Basically a set of weights for the different attributes that would create our own individual "Overall" ratings. This would also make the draft more interesting...but it seems fairly fundamental that some players, for example, would want to draft WR's with Speed, others with good hands, still others with Toughness and Jumping... (I am, of course, assuming that all these attributes *do* something).
#6 Change the presentation of the play-by-play. Don't give the Substitutions it's own line entry, it breaks up the flow of the game. Consider using two different color schemes depending on whether the home or away team is on offense. It'd be nice if the play names hyperlinked back to the play diagrams. Teams should be presented by Team Name, rather than owner ID. Consider having each team that signs up give a "Short Name" of, say, 10 chars, that could be used for this rather than the full name which could get unwieldy. Having the player names hyperlink back to the player pages could be nice, but might just be overkill.
#7 Something is wrong with the time of possession stats. They're not adding up to the full 60 minutes.
#8 On the LOS setting for Advanced Playcalling. We need a 31-35 bracket. Probably could just use one bracket between the 35 yard lines.

[kentontrace]

Originally Posted by Brillig

Some feedback/suggestions/bugs:

#1 Advanced Playcalling: Offline editor. I think you'd be better served by making a quick off-line app that would allow you to create a playbook file with your advanced playcalling settings. An XML format, or even a CSV would be fine - then have up/down-loading playbooks supported on the website. Otherwise, I think you're going to have a lot of trouble working the UI to make Advanced Playcalling useful. (Oh, and most/all of us are going to want the ability to save different playbooks anyway, so...)
#2 Interceptions not implemented? Or just not being tracked in stats? I certainly haven't seen one...
#3 Averaging only 1.1 sacks per game (in league #274). Anomaly or real problem?
#4 Kickoffs are too sensitive to Kicking Power. My last game, my kicker #1917 (89 KP, 91 KA, 91 overall) had kickoffs of 53, 56 and 56 yards. My opponent's kicker #46 (93 KP, 87 KA, 89 overall) had kickoffs of 76, 61, 75, 68 and 73 yards. Note that my opponent also went 3/3 on field goals, so Kicking Accuracy doesn't seem to have the same drop-off. Note also that since my kicker's overall rating is higher I paid more for mine. This leads into:
#5 Need to be able to create our own draft criteria. Advanced Drafting, if you will. Basically a set of weights for the different attributes that would create our own individual "Overall" ratings. This would also make the draft more interesting...but it seems fairly fundamental that some players, for example, would want to draft WR's with Speed, others with good hands, still others with Toughness and Jumping... (I am, of course, assuming that all these attributes *do* something).
#6 Change the presentation of the play-by-play. Don't give the Substitutions it's own line entry, it breaks up the flow of the game. Consider using two different color schemes depending on whether the home or away team is on offense. It'd be nice if the play names hyperlinked back to the play diagrams. Teams should be presented by Team Name, rather than owner ID. Consider having each team that signs up give a "Short Name" of, say, 10 chars, that could be used for this rather than the full name which could get unwieldy. Having the player names hyperlink back to the player pages could be nice, but might just be overkill.
#7 Something is wrong with the time of possession stats. They're not adding up to the full 60 minutes.

Brillig - Stuff like this is PERFECT! The game development will speed up in a little under a month when I will be taking on some of the programming to help out. Right now there is only one programmer working on the game - and he's putting in updates atleast every two weeks - which with holding down a fulltime job and dealing with other things such as life - is amazing in my eyes - i hope that once i get on board to help out with the programming some of these issues will be cleaned up fast. I was told earlier today that Franchise leagues are starting to be developed - so we should have them released soon. You guys are all great - and I like when you give us feedback on what your feelings are on the game - it helps with me giving him feedback to let him know whats going on. I'll take note of these requests and see whats going on - and see if any of them are quick fixes!

Thanks!

[Vince]

Blech, with under a minute to play and a nice lead, my starting QB (Donovan McNabb) got his ribs broken. Watch out for Jeebs' guys...they're thugs!

[wade moore]

Draft in 30 minutes!

[wade moore]

I've got a weird anticipation since our league was set to start about an hour ago.... i want to see who I got ...

btw - kenton - I think you are taking it the right way, but don't think we are associating TLF with M-F -- there's a big difference... TLF is encouragin us to try for free and give feedback, M-F encourages us to try for $50 and then shut the F--- Up...

[fantastic flying froggies]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I've got a weird anticipation since our league was set to start about an hour ago.... i want to see who I got ...

and the teams are now up!

[wade moore]

Vince - it's you and me in the first game baby!

Here's guy's I can find on my roster:

Qb #11 Bradlee Van Pelt
QB #9 Jay Fiedler
RB #30 Ahman Green
RB #44 Najeh Davenport (now THAT is funny)
TE #40 Jim Kleinsasser
WR #80 Isaac Bruce
DE #56 Chike Okeafor
CB #34 Mike McKenzie - and he grew to 6'8"... for a corner, wow!
K #13 Mike Vanderjagt

Hmm.. weirded out that I can't find these guys, unless there are some fake ones

92 QB - #7 from Boise St.
98 WR - #81 From Tenn-Chattanooga

[FrogMan]

WOOHOO!!! We're not gonna lose today!!!! we have a bye

FM

[kentontrace]

wade - I do believe that some of the players are made up.

[kentontrace]

Originally Posted by Brillig

#2 Interceptions not implemented? Or just not being tracked in stats? I certainly haven't seen one...

Here are the answers to this question...
#2 - Interceptions do happen - and are recorded.
go here: http://www.tokenleaguefootball.com/m...?nLeagueID=274 change "O" to "D" then change "Tackles" to "Interceptions" and you'll see that they do occur.

[cthomer5000]

A win over Chubby... business as usual.

[Brillig]

Thanks, Kenton - I see it's also listed in Team Stats now too. I guess I've just been lucky so far. Still a small bug in that it's not listed under Offensive stats (i.e., no one is throwing the interceptions )

I think the overall number might be a tad low though - so far we've had 46 interceptions in 2300 attempts (2.0%). Last year the NFL had 520 in 16200 attempts (3.2%). On the one hand, it seems like a 1.2% difference might not be a big deal, but on the other hand, you could say that your interceptions are 40% low. This might be a significant part of why a low percentage pass attack is still successful. (Another may be the sack numbers, q.v.)

[kentontrace]

Originally Posted by Brillig

Thanks, Kenton - I see it's also listed in Team Stats now too. I guess I've just been lucky so far. Still a small bug in that it's not listed under Offensive stats (i.e., no one is throwing the interceptions )

Hmmm - looks like we need to get the QBs their credit so coaches can know they are helping out other teams

I'll see if I can't get him to add that in, next time he's in the code. Thanks for pointing it out.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

A win over Chubby... business as usual.

And no reply. That's business as usual.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Vince - it's you and me in the first game baby!

Here's guy's I can find on my roster:

Qb #11 Bradlee Van Pelt
QB #9 Jay Fiedler
RB #30 Ahman Green
RB #44 Najeh Davenport (now THAT is funny)
TE #40 Jim Kleinsasser
WR #80 Isaac Bruce
DE #56 Chike Okeafor
CB #34 Mike McKenzie - and he grew to 6'8"... for a corner, wow!
K #13 Mike Vanderjagt

Hmm.. weirded out that I can't find these guys, unless there are some fake ones

92 QB - #7 from Boise St.
98 WR - #81 From Tenn-Chattanooga

I made this team as opposite my other team as possible -- stud RB, O-Line and D-Line, very little in the way of QB, WR and DBs. More than 250 yards rushing in game one isn't bad, though

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Vince

I made this team as opposite my other team as possible -- stud RB, O-Line and D-Line, very little in the way of QB, WR and DBs. More than 250 yards rushing in game one isn't bad, though

Wow.. I didn't look at the pbp, but the game stats i did....

This sim engine is seriously out of whack ...

[Vince]

I think a lot of it has to do with the wacky passing game. More incompletions = more clock stoppages = more plays run = weird stats.

[Franklinnoble]

Dammit! Coffee Warlord has ruined my shot at a winless season and the first pick in next year's draft...

[Brillig]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Dammit! Coffee Warlord has ruined my shot at a winless season and the first pick in next year's draft...

...I guess XYZ West really *is* the NFC West...

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Vince

I think a lot of it has to do with the wacky passing game. More incompletions = more clock stoppages = more plays run = weird stats.

Agreed.. with the WR's and QB I have to have a 35% completion is just absurd.

[kentontrace]

Hey guys - I just wanted to let you know - that according "the man" - May 15th will be the date that this game goes to its next version which should include franchise leagues...(you cant quote me on this - he just told me that he plans on making an announcemnt in the next few days and posting a countdown on the site that leads up to the 15th of May) - so I really dont know what is coming - but if I had to guess - it would include franchises and an upgrade on the sim system...

[Vince]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Agreed.. with the WR's and QB I have to have a 35% completion is just absurd.

Well, a revelation by one of the forum guys over there is that all plays (incomplete, OOB or normal) take up approximately the same amount of time, so the tons of plays per game are not a function of more incompletions.

[chinaski]

im not sure how this works.... we rush 79 times (106 total plays), the other team has only 16 tackles?

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Vince

Well, a revelation by one of the forum guys over there is that all plays (incomplete, OOB or normal) take up approximately the same amount of time, so the tons of plays per game are not a function of more incompletions.

I'm going to keep playing this game, and I think it's interesting. But I think it's going to need a significant improvement in the sim engine before it really holds my interest more than playing it because it has "potential"... in fact I'm a little perturbed that franchise mode is coming when these significant sim problems still exist.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I'm going to keep playing this game, and I think it's interesting. But I think it's going to need a significant improvement in the sim engine before it really holds my interest more than playing it because it has "potential"... in fact I'm a little perturbed that franchise mode is coming when these significant sim problems still exist.

You and me both. I went from really excited, to now just checking to see what the scores were in my two leagues. My teams happen to be doing pretty well, so that's good.

I'm trying to decide if having WRs who know what they're doing is worth it at all, however. My first team was very FOF-Allocation Draft-like: heavy on QBs, WRs and DBs. While I have one of the best passing attacks in the league, and a 4-1 record, my passing game is still anemic. I think if I sign up for another league in a couple weeks, when these end, I'll try a team with a great QB and no WRs, and one with a crappy QB and great WRs. See which has more of an effect.

[chinaski]

there are so many flaws with the sim engine, it astounds me people would actually pay for 'tokens'. They lost me when I saw you could run a single HB 80+ times a game, effectively. blech.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Vince

You and me both. I went from really excited, to now just checking to see what the scores were in my two leagues. My teams happen to be doing pretty well, so that's good.

I'm trying to decide if having WRs who know what they're doing is worth it at all, however. My first team was very FOF-Allocation Draft-like: heavy on QBs, WRs and DBs. While I have one of the best passing attacks in the league, and a 4-1 record, my passing game is still anemic. I think if I sign up for another league in a couple weeks, when these end, I'll try a team with a great QB and no WRs, and one with a crappy QB and great WRs. See which has more of an effect.

Yup.. this is really a "I'm another datapoint in testing" type thing for me... not any real "enjoyment" out of what it is doing right now...

Again, they're not charging, so I'm all for it.. I'll be a datapoint, but I can't particular have fun with it atm.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by chinaski

there are so many flaws with the sim engine, it astounds me people would actually pay for 'tokens'. They lost me when I saw you could run a single HB 80+ times a game, effectively. blech.

That thread over there where people were actually arguing with you about that was absurd.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Vince

That thread over there where people were actually arguing with you about that was absurd.

Wait.

There are people trying to defend the sim engine as accurate?!

[Vince]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Wait.

There are people trying to defend the sim engine as accurate?!

Not exactly...though there was a quote somewhere that said "It's not impossible...just improbable." Let me see if I can dig it up, it was pretty funny (after I got over the jaw-dropping 'Did he just actually say that?!' moment).

[Vince]

Ok, the interchange...

Originally Posted by Chinaski

Anyone else seeing HB's rushing more than 70+ times a game? seems a tad over the top, the NFL record is 45 attempts in a OT game.

Originally Posted by reply

well its the coaches decision, if the nfl coaches wanted to they could run every play

Originally Posted by reply

Not impossible...just improbable. This IS a internet game, and therefore won't be 100% accurate. I suppose....If a guy had enough stamina ghe could pull off these numbers. I never met a guy that could though, and I certainly couldn't. but like I said, not impossible, just improbable. He DID break an elbow, that serves as a lesson. Run your HB ragged and you'll get burned.

A Power HB with enough stamina could pull this off, but not a speed HB.

Kent actually posted some good points in the thread, though his example of the college guy with 58 carries and 396 yards was pretty...irrelevant, I think.

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by Vince

Ok, the interchange...







Kent actually posted some good points in the thread, though his example of the college guy with 58 carries and 396 yards was pretty...irrelevant, I think.

Some of the points were definitely vaild, but in the end; theres no excuse for a game that allows a HB to rush 80 times in a single game, every game. Sure a dumb ass coach could in fact call a run on every down, but that coach could not find a player capable of doing so.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by chinaski

Some of the points were definitely vaild, but in the end; theres no excuse for a game that allows a HB to rush 80 times in a single game, every game. Sure a dumb ass coach could in fact call a run on every down, but that coach could not find a player capable of doing so.

Agreed. jb's post (not jbmagic ) in that thread was actually quite well articulated. But it doesn't excuse the flaw in the game mechanics of a game that is trying to simulate NFL Football. It doesn't make the game worthless or anything, just that it is a definite flaw that needs to be addressed.

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by Vince

Agreed. jb's post (not jbmagic ) in that thread was actually quite well articulated. But it doesn't excuse the flaw in the game mechanics of a game that is trying to simulate NFL Football. It doesn't make the game worthless or anything, just that it is a definite flaw that needs to be addressed.

I think if they want too, it should be a fairly easy fine tune. I would just accelerate a RB's fatigue. Right now it seems like all players fatigue at the same rate, or pretty close to that. cool game anyways, but like some others said, ive gone from excitement too 'eh'. I'll check back time to time to see the progress, wish them the best and hope they make it free until its worth paying for.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by chinaski

there are so many flaws with the sim engine, it astounds me people would actually pay for 'tokens'. They lost me when I saw you could run a single HB 80+ times a game, effectively. blech.

I talked to Nick Eddy -- he told me he's up for the challenge Week 1.

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I talked to Nick Eddy -- he told me he's up for the challenge Week 1.

Oh no you didnt!












- Rubin Carter disagrees

[kentontrace]

LOL - nowhere was i every trying to say the sim engine was in working order - nor would the only programmer claim it.

I personally will do everything in my power to make sure the sim engine gets a major boost when the franchise leagues are released...(if i can get the power to do so.)

Earlier in this thread someone said something about why didnt I post something earlier, and my thought behind not doing so was because the game is not yet ready for what i'd call 'knowledgeable' coaches - who know how real life football games work. I wanted to make sure the sim engine was cleaned up before I tried to give the game mass support.

There are a lot of things that need looked at and hopefully in the next month or so fixes will come. I know something needs to be done about the FG kicking - I don’t know if anyone here has noticed - but for some strange reason, if you have a good kicker he seems to be more accurate from 50-60 yards than 20-30 yards.

You know the nice thread we have here for maximum football?? well just think of our game to be in the first stages of development - which maximum football was at 19 years ago...and they haven’t done much with it since? lol Since I've been on the site there have been some very nice additions and fixes to the game - and that has only been something like 5 or 6 months. By this time next year - I believe all bugs will be squashed. And hopefully those bugs are with the help of you guys pointing it out...Hell - maybe we can get a lot of it worked out by the start of preseason games in the real NFL.

The reason the game even when to "Token" leagues - is because without any support the site was going to have to close down because of hosting costs. The Programmer prides himself on offering a free game - and if we had it our way it would be a totally free game. But we need to be able to cover the costs of hosting the site, Does anyone know of any ways to increase ad income to the site? If so - we'd be able to do a lot more things with the site a lot sooner.

(I need to talk him into quiting his day job)

[wade moore]

Kenton - Good post. I tried to shelter all of my comments around the idea that I really appreciate and want to support this effort. I will continue to play it for the fact of what it CAN be... So, anyway, no trying to discourage the effort.

[Akuma]

I know this topic is old, but I found it (and the site) thru a google search.

I hope you guys haven't given up on the game. The potential is there, I still think it'll happen.

Hiya